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JanLui
France50 Posts
On June 30 2014 10:35 Womec wrote: Thanks Hammer: http://www.twitch.tv/attzp/b/542961472 @ 4:00:00 Matchpoint ahah funnily enough the initial push worked pretty well, even if you got a huge supply cap at 19 delaying your 1st maraudeur for a long time.............. | ||
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PoisonTV
United Kingdom32 Posts
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Wrath
3175 Posts
The links are still broken. Thank you for the great build. I'm interested in trying it out but I need replays to understand it much better than just reading the guide. Hope you can fix the replays issue ASAP. | ||
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Slashiepie
107 Posts
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Salient
United States876 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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-Hammer-
Canada107 Posts
On June 30 2014 21:17 PoisonTV wrote: Is anyone able to provide some more recent replays of them using this build? Replays have been updated! On July 31 2014 21:15 Salient wrote: Is this a solid build that can be used every TvP even if your opponent knows that it's coming, or is surprise an essential element? Absolutely. I have played repeated games against the same opponent, even telling them I am utilizing the build again, and gone on to win. You can also use the opening, and then transition into bio too :D It is solid. On July 31 2014 20:28 Slashiepie wrote: Links are broken now. I love this build. Fixed, and thanks! :D | ||
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Mylaur
France5 Posts
 Love your opener. | ||
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-Hammer-
Canada107 Posts
On August 10 2014 06:19 Mylaur wrote: Have you seen the "drunk hammer" lagforce did ? It's hilarious. Your thoughts ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bN1SFEG2QQ Love your opener. Haha thanks for posting this, good times! | ||
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hfsrj
Germany166 Posts
It benefits a lot from the hellbat buff, and from the former ghost buff. However I use a slight variation : -I go reactor after the 2nd or 3rd mine, and make an armory quite fast. Defending a counterpush with marauders hellbats is quite easy (unless it involves voidrays, which is a possible reaction that has to be scouted), and ofc reactored starport as soon as possible. -I go for a fast 3rd cc, into 3 facto starport barracks with ghost. The starport focuses on vikings if he makes colossi or voids, medivac otherwise. The facto makes tanks and/or thors according to the composition. The hellbats are real good against zealots that are a traditional answer to tanks, and they prevent aggressive blinking on tanks or thors (please blink on my hellbats !). However, I feel that with a good decision making toss can be ok, since the CC is late. This is why hellbat drops must cover for a fast 3rd CC, and the timing push has to be really sharp. The 2 base all in seems really dangerous as reaching a critical mass is not fast in mech. | ||
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Warzilla
Czech Republic311 Posts
On August 03 2014 17:52 -Hammer- wrote: Replays have been updated! Absolutely. I have played repeated games against the same opponent, even telling them I am utilizing the build again, and gone on to win. You can also use the opening, and then transition into bio too :D It is solid. Fixed, and thanks! :D Yeah i love transition into bio too instead... It is much easier now since you have like 80-90 percent chance they will go collosus first after that mine buff heh... so yeah thanks for sharing, even though i like more economic builds against toss this is something that can shake with mindset of opponent in series too... What i would like to ask is how you usualy play it out when following up with bio? | ||
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-Hammer-
Canada107 Posts
On August 11 2014 21:17 Warzilla wrote: Yeah i love transition into bio too instead... It is much easier now since you have like 80-90 percent chance they will go collosus first after that mine buff heh... so yeah thanks for sharing, even though i like more economic builds against toss this is something that can shake with mindset of opponent in series too... What i would like to ask is how you usualy play it out when following up with bio? I like to drop a lot when using bio, mix in a few mines, and try to keep the Protoss supply low. Protoss becomes a lot harder to deal with in larger numbers so just chip away and then attack when you feel are in a superior position. | ||
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NinjaDuckBob
186 Posts
The Mines and Marauder(s) are exceptional at killing and/or taking units out of position for the Hellions to slide by and roast Probes. The Mines and Marauder simply do not allow the Protoss to block his ramp with Stalkers, and a Sentry (or Sentires) means that the Protoss expo will be delayed. Been transitioning into Mario-inspired Mine/Tank, also adding Vikings and sometimes a Raven, continuing to build Marauders from the one Barracks since conc is nice. Aggressive with it. The Raven's PDD really helps in case of PO if you have it, and even then it's not entirely necessary. Just making Vikings means that you can scan-kill Observers, kill the MSC, and discourage Colossi. Banshees are an option as support, too, I'm sure, against Robo. Only thing I'm unsure on is if I should go for a 3rd Mine and 3 Hellions, or just straight for 4 Hellions. The worry here is if Hellions are building when an Oracle comes, but much of they time they keep it home for detection. Currently I've just been doing a 3rd Mine and Hellions, but I'm going to try 4 Hellions as well. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1555 Posts
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-Hammer-
Canada107 Posts
On August 25 2014 07:10 jinjin5000 wrote: hammer, how would you go against mass zealot/archon/immortal composition? Hi Jinjin, thanks for your question. I don't see that composition too often. The build is set to go into a macro late game after the initial pressure/s so you can adjust as you need to compositionally. The BF Hellbats deal well with mass zealot, and emp is great against archon/immortal. Typically the high supply timing around 14-15 minutes hits before significant amounts of archons are available, and from there the game snowballs. I don't have a replay of this off the top of my head, but if I do I will post it with description. Cheers. On August 19 2014 13:26 NDBSC2 wrote: Been starting to use a variation of the Hammer build with even more success than the Marauder/Mine build I was using before. It starts out rushing to a Reactor'd Factory to get 2 Mines out, followed shortly by the Marauder w/conc shells (Bunker w/scouting worker if possible). Factory then produces Hellions while the Barracks continues to build Marauders. Expo behind the Barracks and Factory when the money is there. The Mines and Marauder(s) are exceptional at killing and/or taking units out of position for the Hellions to slide by and roast Probes. The Mines and Marauder simply do not allow the Protoss to block his ramp with Stalkers, and a Sentry (or Sentires) means that the Protoss expo will be delayed. Been transitioning into Mario-inspired Mine/Tank, also adding Vikings and sometimes a Raven, continuing to build Marauders from the one Barracks since conc is nice. Aggressive with it. The Raven's PDD really helps in case of PO if you have it, and even then it's not entirely necessary. Just making Vikings means that you can scan-kill Observers, kill the MSC, and discourage Colossi. Banshees are an option as support, too, I'm sure, against Robo. Only thing I'm unsure on is if I should go for a 3rd Mine and 3 Hellions, or just straight for 4 Hellions. The worry here is if Hellions are building when an Oracle comes, but much of they time they keep it home for detection. Currently I've just been doing a 3rd Mine and Hellions, but I'm going to try 4 Hellions as well. Sounds interesting! Are you still having solid success with this variation NinjDuckBob? | ||
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NinjaDuckBob
186 Posts
On August 25 2014 11:11 -Hammer- wrote: Hi Jinjin, thanks for your question. I don't see that composition too often. The build is set to go into a macro late game after the initial pressure/s so you can adjust as you need to compositionally. The BF Hellbats deal well with mass zealot, and emp is great against archon/immortal. Typically the high supply timing around 14-15 minutes hits before significant amounts of archons are available, and from there the game snowballs. I don't have a replay of this off the top of my head, but if I do I will post it with description. Cheers. Sounds interesting! Are you still having solid success with this variation NinjDuckBob? Hammer, @your reply to jinjin, I've figured out that mass Mine/Tank without Hellbats and Ghosts absolutely shreds Zealot/Immortal/Archon. Mario does it too if you want a higher level example, even against other compositions with some air support. Just something worth trying, if you want, IMO. Personally easier for me to use than Hellbats and Ghosts are. Anyways, to answer your question towards me, yes it's working great *if* I actually use it right. While someone with poor control will be more likely to get wins with the previous build I used which opened with 4 Hellions right of the bat, this variation of your build can be more powerful with someone who has decent control. The Widow Mines and Marauder(s) encourage the Protoss to combat you with his Stalkers and MSC because he doesn't want his Natural killed. The Widow Mines also keep him from easily walling his ramp. This means that the follow-up Hellions deal kind of a "second blow" because there is much less chance the Protoss will wall off with Stalkers if he has to deal with Mines and Marauders, and the Hellions can get in to roast some Probes. It's a bit difficult to do on Nimbus, but if you can get the Mines into the main Mineral line on Nimbus it can be even more powerful. It's also safer against Oracles. If my SCV scout finds any chance of an Oracle coming, I put one of the Mines in my Mineral line and I just push with the other Widow Mine and Marauder. I'm still wondering whether it's better in that situation whether a 3rd Mine is better or 4 Hellions is still better (I'm currently convinced 4 Hellions is better than the 3rd Mine if there are no Oracles). The thing is, you have to push as fast as you can on some maps (without sacrificing too much economy, of course), and you need to know where the opponent is. Hellions straight-up can still deal damage if they come a little late and the Protoss doesn't think to wall, but this needs to hit on-time. Even if it doesn't though, I still win often just because of my follow-up composition. I still delay mining from the Natural while establishing my own, and then get my composition up. There's really only one thing that I have a lot of trouble against when I don't seriously screw up (which happens sometimes, as a Random I don't get a ton of practice with a single matchup), and that is DTs. That's no different than before, though. I'm either just lazy and skip the Raven and find I'm out of Scans, or I forget to make blind Turrets when I can, that kind of thing. | ||
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Solus420
United States53 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2f2g98/wip_the_ultimate_starcraft_guide_wip/ | ||
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lagforce
1 Post
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slytown
Korea (South)1411 Posts
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
If the opponent did go for a fast expand, a robo can be throw down at around 5 minutes, with an observer out around 6:20. 1 observer + photon overcharge completely kills a largly widow mine based composition, whereas if you have gone marauders you can wait out the photon overcharge and then kill the nexus. The mass widow mine opening just seems really gimmicky, as you have only 2-3 actual attacking units. | ||
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