[D] Early Pools - Page 5

On October 11 2013 04:30 Ephemera wrote:
Hatch first is better in the ZvT match up and against random players but as you say that's another discussion thread.
I have currently been theorycrafting a build and have used it in some games to decent success.

ZvT from my point of view is a match up I dread, it limits the options I have and almost always forces me to 10 Pool macro, unless I wish to roll the dice and 6 Pool or go for the Dimaga fast 6 Banelings and hope they don't scout for ages/make one bunker or rewall.
So naturally I've been focused on working out a viable way to early pool and get things done.

Some facts, it takes 7 Marines to kill one spine crawler and 12 Marines for two and 16 Marines for three. (All with Target fire)

With the build I theorise you can have 3 Spines at the enemy base by 4mins.
If the opponent has done CC first they will have 1 Marine at this point.

Due to the time it takes for the marine count to take the spine crawlers on there's only 2 options for stopping the attack, tanks or air units. With a barrack first and a quick gas the fastest a tank can be out is around the 5:15 mark. That's a whole minute of time when they can't contest or stop your attack.

So that gives a nice attack window.
Assuming the perfect and fastest counter to this build they will have 5 marines 22 SCV and 1 Siege Tank by 5:30.
Another counter is the reaper for obvious reasons. In a standard reaper build they will put down gas around 2:00 meaning a 1:15 Drone scout timing to be able to abort this build and go into 10 Pool macro.

The key part is that the spine crawlers will break down a wall the only thing that stands in the way of an early pool.
It takes 4 Spine crawlers to out DPS 3-4 SCVs repairing, but due to the positioning of the spine crawlers SCVs can be killed by the spines.
During this 1min time window 42 SCVs can be killed if they are in range of the spine crawlers making repairing out of the question and a 4th spine crawler not necessary.

So now we have established that you will crack the wall what is the best unit composition to be able to make best use of that? Ideally you'd want roaches with burrow or mutalisks since the spine crawlers are there to crack the wall rather than participate in the fight.

A banshee is possible by around 6:30 so Mutalisks may not be needed if you can effectively exploit the timing.

So far the build involves:
10 Extractor
10 Pool
Extractor trick
11 Overlord
@100% Pool Lair.

The finer points of when I can drone are still being worked out since this is only just been even partly thought out.
I will have lings out in time to defend from and barracks first marine trying to stop my overlord dropping creep.

As I said I think I want to add a scout into this build for the simple fact of being able to abort this build if I see gas early because reapers would ruin my drone ling and would stop the spines from going up since the lings can't catch them.

Anyway please tell me what you think of the theory.

On October 12 2013 04:10 BuiBui wrote:


Even though it is possible to kill the terran with a build like this. It is only going to work vs the current terran meta game. Any other old school build will put you way behind. Such as, the 1/1/1 build where they can do banshee or hellion drops. Honestly I have tried every possible build you can do from 10p. and the best one is gasless into "standard" game.

On October 17 2013 03:19 Ephemera wrote:
Well I've been doing a lot of 6 Pools recently and I've found out that 6 Pool against Terran is less of a has to be CC first or gg build, admittedly it's unlikely you will win if they go barracks first but if they make one miss micro they will lose and if you have perfect micro you might even be able to still win even if they do defend.

It's all about the wall, delay or stop the wall and you've got an easy win vs CC first and against Rax first you've got a slim chance (Even though I've won 80% of my games against Rax first but they've miss microed)

So 6 Pools has been super common in my play, 10 Pool macro is now a standard build in GSL and was featured in a replay Day9 picked using Jaedong.

On October 17 2013 06:29 Qwyn wrote:
You have the replay? Or the daily?

On October 17 2013 06:29 Qwyn wrote:


You have the replay? Or the daily?

The roach transition was cute BuiBui, would have liked to see some more creepspread with all that queen energy you had banked up ^^.

Dunno what that guy was doing, your third denies kept you on top though ^^.

On October 19 2013 00:18 Ephemera wrote:
Sounds like an interesting build Metaspace, I would give it a go were it not the fact I have to do pools before overlord, might try and adapt it for a 12 pool.

Anyway I just hit diamond on EU took me long enough, now to masters.
As I said at the start of this thread, I would create a guide for all things early pool by the time I hit masters but I could do one now if people feel diamond is a high enough league for me to do an indepth guide on early pools? (Considering I've done 400 games of early pools this season and with 70% win rate)

EDIT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=268861
Thread you were talking about!

On October 17 2013 16:52 Echinococcus wrote:


Daily #645 and it was the third Ro16 WCS match between Jaedong and Taeja.

On October 19 2013 23:26 Ephemera wrote:
Isn't it obvious BuiBui?
It's for map control, a 10 pool takes map control and that fast gas keeps the map control for when hellions come out.
Map control gives you 40 seconds warning of attacks allowing for 40 seconds more of army or for 40 seconds more of drones.
Your 3-4 queens is a heavy mineral commitment and losses the map control the 10 pool gained making the 10 pool almost pointless for map control and just a way to possibly punish a CC first on the low ground.

Just my thoughts (and possibly Day9)