EPT[G] The MAN Train: Immortal/Zealot PvZ All-In - Page 5
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RobinVervuren
Netherlands10 Posts
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fapy
Australia52 Posts
So I've tried this four times on ladder yesterday and out of those four times the zerg used early speedling attacks or a bling bust to kill me before my push. In other vZ games where I didn't go for this build and normal scouting I didn't meet a single zerg trying a ling all in. Just bad luck on my side that I met guys who blindly all in'd? Or might zerg be reacting to my negletance to scout when I do this man train build?.. Note I'm only high gold/low plat so all ins are common Scout more agressivly with your probe, when his pool is nearly done, run your probe out and then come back in 30-40 seconds, if there is more lings cut everything, get your cannon and wall up, fight with your probes + msc + zelaot if they flood a lot of lings to get your wall up. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On May 31 2013 22:11 RobinVervuren wrote: So I've tried this four times on ladder yesterday and out of those four times the zerg used early speedling attacks or a bling bust to kill me before my push. In other vZ games where I didn't go for this build and normal scouting I didn't meet a single zerg trying a ling all in. Just bad luck on my side that I met guys who blindly all in'd? Or might zerg be reacting to my negletance to scout when I do this man train build?.. Note I'm only high gold/low plat so all ins are common The build itself isn't very safe, but you can still hold allins if you just get your wall up and get cannons as necessary imo. The zergs you are playing are not allining reactively, scout vs no scout has nothing to do with wether a build can hold off an allin or not. | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
On May 26 2013 05:47 Zheryn wrote: As a zerg, how do I know this is coming, and what is a good response to it? You can tell from the enormous oncoming erection visible from about halfway across the map. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
I guess he didn't have good "shit I'm being attacked better wall" reactions. I'm SO glad I didn't lose to this. | ||
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proxyShark
31 Posts
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
You die to silly 14/14 stuff if he commits to lings, but none decent does that blindly (unless you are playing a BoX or whatever) because it's terribad vs any other gateway opening as well as vs FFE. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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probeater
124 Posts
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woreyour
582 Posts
Now with new improved shuttles :D ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1Yn8MRy.jpg) with the new shuttle it knocks a few secs earlier and adds much more annoying warp ins as queens are lifting their skirts as they chase it :D | ||
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vahgar.r24
India465 Posts
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Maxyim
430 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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11B
United States188 Posts
The problem with this build as stated is its very easily detected - and the last game I played z went blind spire and gg for me T_T Well I'm a Zerg user and used to have a bit of problem vs. this kind of push but thanks to this article have found myself surprisingly able to counter this build with few problems. I guess that in conjunction with good overlord scouting on gas, which in itself, even in the absence of actually spotting the Toss tech throws up danger signs to start making units earlier. Very good guide vs the unprepared Zerg though  . | ||
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Kaizen[7]
United States86 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/wcs_europe/c/2559284 It seems like the version that hits sooner (A) is a bit more "all-in" than the other variation (B), which gets a forge and even defensive cannons at the natural. Any thoughts on the different variations? | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
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Jinxeth
Denmark33 Posts
...Holding this off is riddiculusly easy if you've caught wind of it coming though. Simply mass up roach/ling and kill him dead. Meet his manliness head on, with the even more manly roach. Its super hard for the Protoss to afford any sentries at all, so if you pick your engagements and positioning well he'll have a tough time utilising his immortals without the Roaches killing them in one volley. Likewise, any kind of early Ling/Bling/Muta play will wreck this composition. Even if you scout it late, creating a concave with spines at your natural and waiting for the mutalisks to pop can spell GG. The Banelings are somewhat vital to discourage him from just bumrushing your spines though. The build fulfills its niche extremely well. Its just that against anything else it gets roflstomped hard. It'll never become as staple as the Sentry/Immortal allin of old, and thank the heavens for that. | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Are there any replays out there showing how to properly react to this build as zerg? I like to use the following build vs a toss that uses a build similar to the Naniwa vs Hyun game (9:10 min attack with 2 Immortals / 12 zealots): http://drop.sc/350459. Basic timing benchmarks I shoot for when using this build is 44/44 supply by 5:40 and 77- 80 supply by 8:00 with 59-61 drone count. I start making units around 7:55 and by the 9 minute mark typically have 24 roach with additional morphing. After you stop his push you focus on expanding, droning, and upgrades. GG no re. | ||
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