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[G] The MAN Train: Immortal/Zealot PvZ All-In - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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RobinVervuren
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands10 Posts
May 31 2013 13:11 GMT
#81
So I've tried this four times on ladder yesterday and out of those four times the zerg used early speedling attacks or a bling bust to kill me before my push. In other vZ games where I didn't go for this build and normal scouting I didn't meet a single zerg trying a ling all in. Just bad luck on my side that I met guys who blindly all in'd? Or might zerg be reacting to my negletance to scout when I do this man train build?.. Note I'm only high gold/low plat so all ins are common
fapy
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia52 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-31 13:25:33
May 31 2013 13:25 GMT
#82
So I've tried this four times on ladder yesterday and out of those four times the zerg used early speedling attacks or a bling bust to kill me before my push. In other vZ games where I didn't go for this build and normal scouting I didn't meet a single zerg trying a ling all in. Just bad luck on my side that I met guys who blindly all in'd? Or might zerg be reacting to my negletance to scout when I do this man train build?.. Note I'm only high gold/low plat so all ins are common


Scout more agressivly with your probe, when his pool is nearly done, run your probe out and then come back in 30-40 seconds, if there is more lings cut everything, get your cannon and wall up, fight with your probes + msc + zelaot if they flood a lot of lings to get your wall up.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12248 Posts
May 31 2013 13:32 GMT
#83
On May 31 2013 22:11 RobinVervuren wrote:
So I've tried this four times on ladder yesterday and out of those four times the zerg used early speedling attacks or a bling bust to kill me before my push. In other vZ games where I didn't go for this build and normal scouting I didn't meet a single zerg trying a ling all in. Just bad luck on my side that I met guys who blindly all in'd? Or might zerg be reacting to my negletance to scout when I do this man train build?.. Note I'm only high gold/low plat so all ins are common


The build itself isn't very safe, but you can still hold allins if you just get your wall up and get cannons as necessary imo. The zergs you are playing are not allining reactively, scout vs no scout has nothing to do with wether a build can hold off an allin or not.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Evangelist
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1246 Posts
May 31 2013 13:43 GMT
#84
On May 26 2013 05:47 Zheryn wrote:
As a zerg, how do I know this is coming, and what is a good response to it?


You can tell from the enormous oncoming erection visible from about halfway across the map.
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
June 05 2013 21:10 GMT
#85
It's funny as someone tried to pull this off on me. It was funnier still that after I pressured his wall I realized he had no units so I just made lings and won. ^^

I guess he didn't have good "shit I'm being attacked better wall" reactions. I'm SO glad I didn't lose to this.
maru lover forever
proxyShark
Profile Joined September 2011
31 Posts
June 06 2013 18:54 GMT
#86
T.T ... good build. It just beat EGMachine!
iKill
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Denmark861 Posts
June 06 2013 20:13 GMT
#87
How the hell do you defend vs lots of speedlings? I can't get my wall up in time and I have no units :/
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12248 Posts
June 06 2013 20:30 GMT
#88
On most maps you should complete your wall before 6 minutes, so you shoudl be fine if he's playing standard.

You die to silly 14/14 stuff if he commits to lings, but none decent does that blindly (unless you are playing a BoX or whatever) because it's terribad vs any other gateway opening as well as vs FFE.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12248 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 20:00:41
June 17 2013 19:57 GMT
#89
Bump, updated with a couple of Naniwa's replays which i missed in the old Dreamhack replay pack.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
igay
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia1178 Posts
June 17 2013 23:48 GMT
#90
If that wp buff goes through this will be even more phyco lol
MVP <3 MKP <3 DRG <3
probeater
Profile Joined October 2012
124 Posts
June 18 2013 01:20 GMT
#91
psycho*
I have a Dark Templar Statue at home.
woreyour
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
582 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-21 18:12:14
June 21 2013 18:11 GMT
#92
This is so good, it made him hate himself LOLOLOL

Now with new improved shuttles :D

[image loading]

with the new shuttle it knocks a few secs earlier and adds much more annoying warp ins as queens are lifting their skirts as they chase it :D
I am so sexy.. I sometimes romance myself..
vahgar.r24
Profile Joined October 2010
India465 Posts
June 21 2013 23:06 GMT
#93
The problem with this build as stated is its very easily detected - and the last game I played z went blind spire and gg for me T_T
Somethings are just worth fighting for
Maxyim
Profile Joined March 2012
430 Posts
July 19 2013 18:37 GMT
#94
How should one modify this build for PvP / PvT?
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12248 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-19 18:47:14
July 19 2013 18:46 GMT
#95
It doesnt work in either matchup. Every viable build out there, save for very very few exceptions, is matchup-specific.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
11B
Profile Joined March 2010
United States188 Posts
July 20 2013 16:07 GMT
#96
The problem with this build as stated is its very easily detected - and the last game I played z went blind spire and gg for me T_T


Well I'm a Zerg user and used to have a bit of problem vs. this kind of push but thanks to this article have found myself surprisingly able to counter this build with few problems. I guess that in conjunction with good overlord scouting on gas, which in itself, even in the absence of actually spotting the Toss tech throws up danger signs to start making units earlier.

Very good guide vs the unprepared Zerg though .
LoL....Pogue
Kaizen[7]
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States86 Posts
July 22 2013 08:53 GMT
#97
OK so I first saw this build in Naniwa's WCS Europe group when he did it against Uzer. However, I've noticed that the version he did against Uzer is a bit different than what he did in Stockholm. For reference, here is the WCS Europe link:

http://www.twitch.tv/wcs_europe/c/2559284

It seems like the version that hits sooner (A) is a bit more "all-in" than the other variation (B), which gets a forge and even defensive cannons at the natural.

Any thoughts on the different variations?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
Phrencys
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada270 Posts
July 22 2013 19:03 GMT
#98
Are there any replays out there showing how to properly react to this build as zerg?
Jinxeth
Profile Joined April 2013
Denmark33 Posts
July 22 2013 20:54 GMT
#99
The thing about this build is that its designed to very specifically kill people going for a Ling/Hydra style. The Hydras, if they manage to pop in time, will be too few to deal with the manliness of this push. If he's got but a few roaches to transition into the hydra play, the immortals will wreck his face.

...Holding this off is riddiculusly easy if you've caught wind of it coming though. Simply mass up roach/ling and kill him dead. Meet his manliness head on, with the even more manly roach. Its super hard for the Protoss to afford any sentries at all, so if you pick your engagements and positioning well he'll have a tough time utilising his immortals without the Roaches killing them in one volley.
Likewise, any kind of early Ling/Bling/Muta play will wreck this composition. Even if you scout it late, creating a concave with spines at your natural and waiting for the mutalisks to pop can spell GG. The Banelings are somewhat vital to discourage him from just bumrushing your spines though. The build fulfills its niche extremely well. Its just that against anything else it gets roflstomped hard. It'll never become as staple as the Sentry/Immortal allin of old, and thank the heavens for that.
If you can't explain it, you don't understand well enough.
11B
Profile Joined March 2010
United States188 Posts
July 23 2013 01:18 GMT
#100
Are there any replays out there showing how to properly react to this build as zerg?


I like to use the following build vs a toss that uses a build similar to the Naniwa vs Hyun game (9:10 min attack with 2 Immortals / 12 zealots): http://drop.sc/350459.

Basic timing benchmarks I shoot for when using this build is 44/44 supply by 5:40 and 77- 80 supply by 8:00 with 59-61 drone count. I start making units around 7:55 and by the 9 minute mark typically have 24 roach with additional morphing. After you stop his push you focus on expanding, droning, and upgrades. GG no re.



LoL....Pogue
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