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[G] PvZ +1 zealot warp prism drop allin - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Pachacutec
Profile Joined March 2012
Peru53 Posts
May 13 2013 03:08 GMT
#21
it remind me heavily to the zealot party build i saw in wol, the concep was the same but without robo and you just mine i think 50 or 150 gas and then stop (for WG and +1 or even 200 for a stalker) but it hit early, like 8 min i think and you dropped pylons, anyway good give, i wil try it
you look better in the shadows
sUgArMaNiAc
Profile Joined March 2013
Australia110 Posts
May 13 2013 06:33 GMT
#22
Yea I go for the warp prism full of sentries with a heap of warpgates to mass zealot warp-in while i forcefield the ramp to keep his army away while i distract it with a small ground force. Very effective
No luck catching those swans then?
igay
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia1178 Posts
May 13 2013 07:15 GMT
#23
such a nasty build if z don't scout it coming
MVP <3 MKP <3 DRG <3
JayIsImbA
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany54 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-13 09:24:23
May 13 2013 09:21 GMT
#24
On May 13 2013 04:31 JayPower wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2013 18:28 JayIsImbA wrote:
I'm using a selfdeveloped warpprism-style myself. Even variations with two warpprism, which is pretty strong and rage-inducing on the zerg part too I do this off of an FEE though. However, yours hit around the 10minute mark, and I feel that is kinda late.

Do you use this on two player maps as well, or just on four player maps? Because fast mutas could be up in time. (Im just high diamond toss, playing masters too though). I didn't watch the replays (too lazy), just the twitch VOD.

Anyway, really nice to see a GM using a build that I've crafted myself too :-) GG!


Mine doesn't hit around the 10 minute mark. I don't know where you got that from. All the games I provided (replays and FPVODs) the first warpin happens at 8:30 - 8:50 so that's well before any lair tech off 2 base.

Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 02:29 iLevitate wrote:
what zerg can do to counter this build?


Roaches to hold the initial drop, then hydras for the immortal follow up.


Dude. In the VOD you linked yourself (vs. hAnfy) your first warp in (not the 4 initial zalots in the WP) happens at 8:52 in game time in the middle of the map. The first ling that dies to that warp-in happens at 9:35. Just look at your own VOD and verify the numbers.

Apart from that: he didn't scout you at all, not even with an ovi. he didn't build any roaches considering he may had that RW up when you hit. I think this only works if completely unscouted, that's why abandonned it for now, as it's almost impossible to deny the scouting with just a sentry.
"More gg, more skill!" WhiteRa
JayPower
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands171 Posts
May 13 2013 11:03 GMT
#25
On May 13 2013 04:57 FlyingBeer wrote:
Not your best, but still a great guide.

With such a late wall-off, what's your recommendation against unusual pool timings (10-14 pool with immediate 6+ ling pressure)?

Why gate-core expand instead of nexus first? The primary constraint on attack timing is the warp prism, and your robo is so late that going gate-core doesn't seem to confer any advantage.


I've had some games where I cancel my fake zealot, put down the nexus and then a bit later 6 lings run in. This would have to be 14-15 pool though, any earlier pool hits before that. Usually they will focus down your pylon at the bottom of your ramp. You have to make a new pylon in your main base right away to not get supply blocked. After that you want to rebuild your wall at your natural as soon as possible. there may be more lings coming. Your priority here is to keep your natural. So having your zealot in your new wall to prevent more lings from comiming in is more imporant than killing the 6 lings in your main. You can just send your msc to chase them and micro your probes properly. Usually I deal with this quite easily since the zerg cuts more econ than you would think to make 6lings that early.

Your tech is faster with a gate-core expand.

On May 13 2013 09:54 aldochillbro wrote:
if zerg played as greedy as they did against the ffe it would make sense to do it off ffe but they don't because that's stupid. as a matter of fact i see no reason not to fake agression with 1 probe 1 zealot 1 msc and recall out and sacrificing 1 pylon. i even think the msc would have it's energy back but idk


This is a good idea and definitely something I would recommend as well.

On May 13 2013 18:21 JayIsImbA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 04:31 JayPower wrote:
On May 12 2013 18:28 JayIsImbA wrote:
I'm using a selfdeveloped warpprism-style myself. Even variations with two warpprism, which is pretty strong and rage-inducing on the zerg part too I do this off of an FEE though. However, yours hit around the 10minute mark, and I feel that is kinda late.

Do you use this on two player maps as well, or just on four player maps? Because fast mutas could be up in time. (Im just high diamond toss, playing masters too though). I didn't watch the replays (too lazy), just the twitch VOD.

Anyway, really nice to see a GM using a build that I've crafted myself too :-) GG!


Mine doesn't hit around the 10 minute mark. I don't know where you got that from. All the games I provided (replays and FPVODs) the first warpin happens at 8:30 - 8:50 so that's well before any lair tech off 2 base.

On May 13 2013 02:29 iLevitate wrote:
what zerg can do to counter this build?


Roaches to hold the initial drop, then hydras for the immortal follow up.


Dude. In the VOD you linked yourself (vs. hAnfy) your first warp in (not the 4 initial zalots in the WP) happens at 8:52 in game time in the middle of the map. The first ling that dies to that warp-in happens at 9:35. Just look at your own VOD and verify the numbers.

Apart from that: he didn't scout you at all, not even with an ovi. he didn't build any roaches considering he may had that RW up when you hit. I think this only works if completely unscouted, that's why abandonned it for now, as it's almost impossible to deny the scouting with just a sentry.


So according to you, an attack hits as soon as you kill a unit with it? That would mean the attack would never hit if your opponent would go for a counter attack. I have looked at my own VOD and the replays I provided. The game in the VOD was slightly off, that is true. If you take a look at the replay vs lowely, I do my first warp in at 8:35 in his natural. Just take a look at this screenshot and verify the numbers. [image loading]

Please take some time to actually read my guide before you comment on it. I've provided a replay where my opponent scouted and got roaches prepared in time. I explain what to do there.
Jaypowersc2.com for Guides, Videos, Replays and Coaching
McHawk
Profile Joined March 2013
6 Posts
May 13 2013 11:32 GMT
#26
ehi thanks for the guide
but how do you react vs swarm host?
zelkia
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom13 Posts
May 13 2013 11:45 GMT
#27
swarm hosts wont be out by the time this all in hits. you win or lose before swarm hosts are out
you can't see it at all, unless your flying by.
Rickyvalle21
Profile Joined July 2012
United States320 Posts
May 13 2013 11:47 GMT
#28
It seems Naniwa only executes this build on Neo Planet S vs Quantic Hyun, Liquid TLO and Leenock. Do you know the reasoning beind that Jaypower? I get that gateway expands excel on 4 player maps because the current meta being gasless 3 hatch but he only does it on Neo planet S. I wonder why he doesnt do it on another 4 player map such as belshair vestige or Akilon Waste.
people say practice is perfect but if nothing is perfect whats the point in practicing?
Spec
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Taiwan931 Posts
May 13 2013 11:56 GMT
#29
Had to lose to this last night.
I can confirm Zerg rage meter is about 6 to 7/10 for this one.
Eye for an eye make the world go blind - Gandhi
JayPower
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands171 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-13 12:13:10
May 13 2013 12:03 GMT
#30
On May 13 2013 20:32 McHawk wrote:
ehi thanks for the guide
but how do you react vs swarm host?


Zelkia is right. Zerg can't get lair tech out. If they do they cut corners and they will die to the attack.

Here's replay I played in the DSCL against a guy that tried to go 2base swarmhost nydus extremely greedily (he would insta lose to 4gate pressure and he didn't scout). If i would've gotten my observer faster, he would've died to the attack right away.

http://drop.sc/334187

Here's the game casted, although the commentary is pretty bad.

Jaypowersc2.com for Guides, Videos, Replays and Coaching
JayPower
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands171 Posts
May 13 2013 12:09 GMT
#31
On May 13 2013 20:47 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
It seems Naniwa only executes this build on Neo Planet S vs Quantic Hyun, Liquid TLO and Leenock. Do you know the reasoning beind that Jaypower? I get that gateway expands excel on 4 player maps because the current meta being gasless 3 hatch but he only does it on Neo planet S. I wonder why he doesnt do it on another 4 player map such as belshair vestige or Akilon Waste.


The only reason I can think of is that a 3rd would be hard to take and it encourages 2base play. Another reason could be that there aren't watchtowers on the map and the air distance to your opponent's main is pretty close. The mothershipcore can easily scout if they have overlords in position to scout the warpprism and also force your opponent to scout more actively with his speedlings.
Jaypowersc2.com for Guides, Videos, Replays and Coaching
Lokter
Profile Joined July 2012
United Kingdom13 Posts
May 13 2013 16:48 GMT
#32
Great guide!
Owner of UCAP eSports.
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
May 13 2013 21:58 GMT
#33
On May 13 2013 20:47 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
It seems Naniwa only executes this build on Neo Planet S vs Quantic Hyun, Liquid TLO and Leenock. Do you know the reasoning beind that Jaypower? I get that gateway expands excel on 4 player maps because the current meta being gasless 3 hatch but he only does it on Neo planet S. I wonder why he doesnt do it on another 4 player map such as belshair vestige or Akilon Waste.


I think because he can wall off really easily and be safe, i do it on other maps too and I use the robo in the wall.
GleaM
Profile Joined June 2011
United States207 Posts
May 14 2013 13:48 GMT
#34
Ah, an all-in build, with no replays, explanations about deviations, or really anything...

Sorry to be grim, pissy, ect... but if you don't include reps of losses, people will use this build 2 or 3 times until their opponent holds it, they won't understand WHY it was held, and just stop doing it.
aznheat80
Profile Joined August 2010
United States186 Posts
May 14 2013 14:38 GMT
#35
On May 14 2013 22:48 GleaM wrote:
Ah, an all-in build, with no replays, explanations about deviations, or really anything...

Sorry to be grim, pissy, ect... but if you don't include reps of losses, people will use this build 2 or 3 times until their opponent holds it, they won't understand WHY it was held, and just stop doing it.


He clearly explains the build and he provides replays. Are you retarded? He even says that if the opponent is well fortified, then just go for an immortal timing.
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
May 14 2013 14:43 GMT
#36
--- Nuked ---
Littlesheep
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada217 Posts
May 14 2013 19:02 GMT
#37
Hey I found this build very useful, Ive been having a lot of trouble against zerg recently and this seems unbeatable on ladder (gold) for me.

http://drop.sc/334730
http://drop.sc/334729

I actually wrote out the exact build order from one of the replays, if anyone wants it I will post.

Thanks JayPower
pro toez
McHawk
Profile Joined March 2013
6 Posts
May 16 2013 08:30 GMT
#38
it doesn't work for me instead, they quickly respond with spore/hydras. maybe my decisionmaking suks, i don't know
Demicore
Profile Joined October 2011
France503 Posts
May 16 2013 09:38 GMT
#39
Ooooh intriguing.This looks like it could be a ton of fun. Thanks a lot for the writeup, looking forward to some zerg rage on the ladder.
"I love male nipples in starcraft; the two go together so well." ~Tasteless
ARze
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia45 Posts
May 17 2013 14:19 GMT
#40
Hi Jay,

I've been experimenting a lot with Gate-expands lately (as I'm sure most Protosses have been).
Really like this build, I've hed tremendous success with it following your style.

Just a couple of questions, if you see some roach would you warp in some stalkers to help, then pick some of them up with warp prism if a retreat is necessary?

Also what is the best response if you scout an ultralisk cavern (he had 1/1 lings trying to get 2/2 ling ultra leenock style), better to go Immortal archon or colossus gateway?
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