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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Api2hWv.jpg) + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UTBJDZt.jpg) Poll: Fleet Keys Users: What is your highest league achieved?Diamond League (62) 22% Gold League (51) 18% Platinum League (41) 14% Unranked (27) 10% Master League (26) 9% Professional Level (23) 8% Silver League (22) 8% Grandmaster League (18) 6% Bronze League (10) 4% Practice League (4) 1% 284 total votes Your vote: Fleet Keys Users: What is your highest league achieved? (Vote): Unranked
(Vote): Practice League
(Vote): Bronze League
(Vote): Silver League
(Vote): Gold League
(Vote): Platinum League
(Vote): Diamond League
(Vote): Master League
(Vote): Grandmaster League
(Vote): Professional Level
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CavcAoF.jpg) Poll: Fleet Keys Users: What is your Preferred Race?Zerg (75) 47% Protoss (44) 28% Terran (31) 19% Random (10) 6% 160 total votes Your vote: Fleet Keys Users: What is your Preferred Race? (Vote): Zerg
(Vote): Protoss
(Vote): Terran
(Vote): Random
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iXUAGHd.jpg) Poll: Fleet Keys Users: What is your preferred version of Fleet Keys?Alloy (65) 87% Element (10) 13% 75 total votes Your vote: Fleet Keys Users: What is your preferred version of Fleet Keys? (Vote): Alloy
(Vote): Element
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+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/R7Meigl.png) Alloy is a hotkey layout for players who are searching for something that is compact, accessible, optimized, and 100% tournament-legal. It is simple to learn and does not require players to employ any kinds of non-basic computer hardware, driver modifications, or unorthodox hardware use or modifications. Alloy is significantly more advanced when compared to the original Fleet Keys which is now dubbed "Element". Although it is much more advanced than Element, the layouts still have many things in common. The adjustment experience when going from Element, Standard, and Grid to Alloy is mostly one of increased efficiency; being able to suddenly do things much easier, faster and more intuitively will be the biggest thing to adjust to. Alloy was created for players who want to benefit from massive hotkey layout improvements while still maintaining the comfortable use of the Q,W,E,A,S,D keys used in many PC titles today. This approach creates an experience that bridges the gap between SC2 and a large portion of other PC games from many genres out there, especially other RTS/MOBA games that support Grid-like hotkeys or frequent Q-D usage. Any amount of transferable muscle memory will help when coming to or from SC2.. Refer to the Zerg and Terran & Protoss cheat sheets for suggested bindings usage, explanations and other info. You can find them in the spoilers located under the race icons (shown above). Here is a list detailing many of Alloy's key features:- A familiar PC gameplay experience consisting of heavy Q,W,E,A,S,D usage.
- All 10 accessible Control Groups.
- All 8 accessible Camera Locations.
- Conveniently-placed Unit Commands for performing fast and intuitive Patrol, Hold Position, Attack and Move commands.
- Rolling, alternating, and adjacent finger motions make up many of the game actions. Worker queuing, macro abilities, Attack-moving, and production cycling to name a few.
- Highly optimized macro ability methods such as Mouseless and Camera Location (Layered) Injects, MULEs, Chronoboosts and Warp-ins.
- Easy to access unit spells and abilities. Spells and abilities that were once along Z,X,C are now on A,S,D and the "Smart Key" explained below. This results in a highly efficient version of Command-Card-based, or "Grid-based" bindings, where reaching to the bottom row for any reason is much less frequent.
- The "Smart Key" for Protoss and Terran (Space Bar by default). This one key holds all of your favorite game commands. It works by housing alternate bindings for one command per unit Command Card. The Smart Key is an extremely effective tool in reducing your required hand movement and performing macro as well as micro-related actions, and the best part is that it's 100% customizable! Use it to further eliminate reaching if you don't want to actively use it for spells/abilities.
- Rapidfire Ability Key, optimized for allowing players to spam any command in the game at the rate of your keyboard's repeat rate. This greatly enhances your ability to perform Warp-ins, Creep spread, MULES, Larva spawning, and various other game commands. An invaluable tool when used properly.
- Expansion and metagame-safe bindings. Since new bindings will be added to Command Card locations that already have reserved space in the 5x3 Command Card grid, you should feel safe with Fleet Keys throughout the rest of Starcraft 2's lifespan. The only way this concept gets thrown is if Blizzard extends the dimensions of the Command Cards, which in all likelihood won't happen.
Don't let this compact and familiar design fool you though. Its simple appearance is exactly why it was created, and it's the compact "Grid-like" design that gives it so much strength. The amount of reaching Alloy cuts out is a staggering amount when compared to the default Standard and Grid layouts. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q72bZ1j.png) Download files can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a34d7t3iq6hwpeq/xE4ZRyBxDUMake sure to use the appropriate version (game mode, Alloy or Element, and your keyboard type, race, etc). "Download". Do not "Save As". Here's why (results in all keys being unbound---not good): + Show Spoiler +Plug them into this directory location shown below. If you have not created and saved a custom hotkey profile yet, you won't see the "Hotkeys" folder there. You can create it manually yourself by making a new "Hotkeys" folder, or by saving a hotkey profile in-game (the game will create it for you upon saving the custom profile). Mac File Path~/{username}/Library/Application Support/Blizzard/Starcraft II/Accounts/{bunch of numbers}/HotkeysWindows File Path![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VqzDasN.jpg)
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+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jL0qunA.png) Element is essentially the hotkey layout that "started it all" for Fleet Keys. Before this thread was redesigned and Alloy was introduced, Element was the featured (and only) Fleet Keys layout. On its way to being dubbed "Element", it has undergone some significant changes. It shares many similarities to Alloy and still retains most of its features from its former configuration (the list of notable changes are mentioned below this section). Element is a great step up for players who are accustomed to Grid already and want to refine what they're already familiar with without going too far out of their comfort zone. Element's counterpart, Alloy, is much more efficient and easier to use, so know that Element does have its limits. Some may ask: "Well if Alloy is "better", why does Element even exist?" Element in its current form exists for a few reasons, which are listed here below: - Some users still like to play with Element! Suddenly cutting off support for it and erasing it from existence will only confuse people who come back to check out the thread after the big overhaul/redesign.
- Although Alloy is a fine starting point itself, Element is even more straight-forward albeit more basic. For players who are coming from backgrounds that consisted of a lot of Standard layout play, they won't be too overwhelmed when "trying out" the basic offerings of and arrangement of Fleet Keys' features.
- This ties in somewhat with the last point, but it can serve as a gateway for future Alloy for users who have no clue how playing with Grid-based hotkeys feel (let alone any version of Fleet Keys).
- Some Grid users just want to slightly refine what they already know, or may want to take away some ideas on how to improve their layout. Element could serve as a good reference point for them as it has many neat arrangements that is presented from a rigid Grid-template standpoint. It shows what can be done within the confines of Grid without flipping your muscle memory completely upside-down. Many users have simply taken ideas from Element and went on playing happily with their own layout.
While developing Alloy, better ways of doing things were discovered, and some of those changes were applied to Element as a means to refine it further. Some of the major changes that were made to the original Fleet Keys before/after it was re-worked as "Element" are as follows: - For the Alt+Q/R Control Groups, the "Add to Control Group" command was changed from Ctrl + Shift + Key, to Shift + Alt + Key. It's easier to press and really intuitive considering the means of accessing them. It also follows in line with how other CG's handle "Adding to".
- The addition of the Rapidfire Ability Key, which is currently mapped to X. Why X? Well, it can go anywhere really, but it works extremely well with Zerg, and for Terran and Protoss it can be used easy with spells that fall on X. Of course, pressing Shift with a spell or ability before executing it by holding X will turn any ability into a rapidfired/spammed one, so in most cases it will probably used as a toggled switch of sorts for executing spammed commands. X for Protoss and Terran is mainly a decision to keep consistency across all of the Element layouts.
- Middle Mouse Button (pressed/held by itself) is now used for Mouse Camera Scrolling. It's a quick way to get to where you need to be if you don't have cameras ready, or don't want to use the minimap exclusively for navigation. It can speed things up and now it's more accessible.
- The "double bindings" are removed from the Alt key. Early on, Alt had been bound to Select Warpgates in the Protoss & Terran version, and the Inject Queens Control Group in Zerg. Although this binding sped up actions by a considerable amount, it was proving to be too problematic. Players were having trouble keeping things selected when attempting to transfer or evacuate workers to and from mineral lines while using their Camera Locations. As it was, pressing Alt would deselect what they wanted to give commands to and selected Queens or Warp Gates instead. Minimap usage, Mouse Camera Scrolling, and Base Camera key usage were all potential workarounds, but players shouldn't have to use workarounds to circumvent something like this. In the end, players just had a hard time making great use of it due to those de-selection issues despite the available workarounds, so it was cut. Feel free to re-bind this feature and decide if it works for you.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7Lbn2f2.png) Download files can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a34d7t3iq6hwpeq/xE4ZRyBxDUMake sure to use the appropriate version (game mode, Alloy or Element, and your keyboard type, race, etc). "Download". Do not "Save As". Here's why (results in all keys being unbound---not good): + Show Spoiler +Plug them into this directory location shown below. If you have not created and saved a custom hotkey profile yet, you won't see the "Hotkeys" folder there. You can create it manually yourself by making a new "Hotkeys" folder, or by saving a hotkey profile in-game (the game will create it for you upon saving the custom profile). Mac File Path~/{username}/Library/Application Support/Blizzard/Starcraft II/Accounts/{bunch of numbers}/HotkeysWindows File Path
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+ Show Spoiler +Q:Why are there now two versions of Fleet Keys? Element? Alloy? What happened here?+ Show Spoiler +A: I created the original version of Fleet Keys (now named "Element"), as a hotkey layout that uses Grid as its template. This allowed for a great amount of simplicity and allowed me to condense all of the important game commands and groupings into one neat and tidy system for each race. This was great, and still works great, but I needed to take it a step further. From there, I designed Alloy. Alloy is built upon a Standard template with the majority of Element's key features incorporated into it. Features such as the layout of the Control groups and Cameras being the main ones. Being Standard-based, it provides much more flexibility for players looking to personalize the layout even more. The result of this concept is a powerful layout that borrows as much as it can from Element, while further "optimizing" Element's greatest features. Alloy exists for those who feel like Element doesn't provide them with enough, and is considered to be the most advanced and arguably "better" of the two. Many different people with their own preferences will use these layouts, so Alloy's customization options answer them directly and them some. A: Yes. They must be released as different versions fitted for each expansion. As Blizzard adds new units and commands with each expansion, the hotkey landscape slightly changes as well. By the end of Legacy of the Void, there will be a series of systems for players using each expansion, for each game mode (multiplayer/campaign).
I will keep each version of Fleet Keys as similar as possible across each expansion and game mode. Transitioning to each expansion won't cause you trouble, provided that players download and use the proper files according to their keyboard type/race and game mode. Remembering to use the campaign and multiplayer versions separately is critical as those two game modes are vastly different. A: Here is the current supported list for all races, as of April 30th, 2013: If anyone out there is willing to pitch in on creating other versions that they feel should be included, then by all means, make it and send it to me and I'll create a download folder/link for it. Or, wait for me to include more, which is not a guaranteed way to get the one you want.Fleet Keys Alloy+ Show Spoiler +Heart of the Swarm Multiplayer:
QWERTY - AZERTY - Dvorak
Heart of the Swarm Campaign:
QWERTY - AZERTY - Dvorak
Wings of Liberty Multiplayer:
QWERTY - AZERTY - Dvorak
Wings of Liberty Campaign:
QWERTY - AZERTY - Dvorak Heart of the Swarm:
QWERTY - AZERTY - Dvorak
Wings of Liberty:
QWERTY - AZERTY - Dvorak
In case you were wondering, Element does not require as many versions as it is built on Grid, so this shorter list for Element is not a mistake. The only different bindings for Element are the Grid maps for each keyboard type and the Global bindings.
A: That feature was removed in early April, 2013 across all Fleet Keys systems. If you feel as if you'd enjoy this option, feel free to re-apply yourself it in the game's hotkey editor. For Protoss, it can re-applied by assigning your Select Warp Gates alternate binding to "Alt". With Zerg, have your Queen Control Group bound as an alternate to Alt as well. It's cute, it speeds up your Injects and Warp-ins, but it's not for everybody.
A: Really? I must have overlooked something in the bindings for that file. Please, before sending me the details, make sure you "Downloaded" the hotkey file and did not "Save As", as the file will contain unbound keys if that's the case. If there are indeed unbound keys that were overlooked, feel free to send me the details here: eneyseekay999@gmail.com or leave a detailed message here on the Team Liquid thread or my PM box and I will try to fix it as soon as I can. Thanks in advance for the heads up!
A: Absolutely! This is a system meant to be released to many people, some of who may not have the luxury or want for the use of extra Mouse Buttons. Both systems Element and Alloy were made using a Razer Abyssus, and a standard Das Keyboard, so there are no added bells and whistles of any kind required to use Fleet Keys. The only exception to this may be the Middle Mouse Button, but I don't think that will be an issue with many people people as they are extremely common (despite me being hesitant to use MMB in the first place). I see extra Mouse Buttons as an additional resource, and thus, not something to base Fleet keys around. Would the Fleet keys systems benefit from using them? Sure they could! But they are strictly optional. If you were to use the side mouse buttons I would highly recommend binding "Select Next Subgroup" and "Select Previous Subgroup" to them. A: These are not meant to be used frequently, or at all, in Alloy's current form, so keep that in mind whenever you see a strange out-of-the-way binding. Unless you see an obvious miss-bind for a common command (that isn't Stop), then don't worry. This binding trend doesn't apply to Element, as the commands are tied to Grid.
Regarding the Stop command; Hold Position works better in every way, as it still allows your unit retaliate without your unit being kited away. This also serves a huge role when playing Zerg and performing the Backspace method of Injecting. Stutter-stepping is also business as usual when using Hold Position, so there are no known consequences as a result of this choice. Ghosts would be a unit that suffered as a result, but they have the Hold Fire/Weapons Free command, so there was no downside to the decision. A: This can be changed at any point, as it's merely the default suggested binding. Before making the change without actually trying testing it in-game, check out the Pros/Cons listed here. Pros
- With production on Alt+Q,W,E,R, you aren't moving outside your normal required range to monitor and produce from your production structures. Your thumb doesn't have to really move at all either if you are using the edge of Space Bar when pressing it with your thumb.
- It's a convenient, rolling motion. This is important for rapidly monitoring your production queues in a flash. When you have a multitude of production facilities (applies mostly to Protoss and Terran), viewing all production in a quick, comfortable, rolling motion makes the monitoring process quicker. The rolling motion of Tab>Q to build workers keeps you right on top of your production keys while macroing as well.
- Q,W,E,R for Zerg can keep you on top of your Injects while focusing on a specific map location that isn't back home in your base. Cycling through your first 3 hatcheries whenever you get a chance can display your exact progress of the Inject timers on your Hatcheries. Since Grid is adopted to house pretty much all of the production commands, Q,W,E,R will also house Drones, Overlords, Zerglings, and Roaches-- your most frequently morphed units as Zerg.
- Q,W,E,R is in line with Tab, and if you use your pinky for Tab, you can access all of your production without moving your fingers from Q,W,E,R (with index pressing R). Being mindful of the Alt modifier when you want to build army units will be your only real barrier to overcome should you keep this configuration.
- Q,W,E,R is one key away from all of your intended Unit Control Groups (1 to 4 or 5). Q,W,E,R, when commanding units, is also shared with Patrol, Hold Position, Attack, and Move. This makes jumping to a Unit Control Group, giving an order, and jumping back into production as close as possible. Again-- be mindful of Alt.
- Q,W,E,R is one key away from your first 4 Camera Locations, which is often set as bases, especially if you plan on Injecting with with Camera Locations. You have plenty of options for jumping back to your base and the ease of accessing these cameras while using Q,W,E,R can't get any closer or convenient given the rest of the layout.
Cons
- If you are not mindful of Alt, you can accidentally center your camera over your production facilities. Not always desirable, but not always a bad thing, as it can prompt you to manage your base. Still, this point should be listed as a potential con.
- You'll be pressing Alt to queue up army units as Terran and to some extent Protoss. To some, this can be a deal breaker. Keep in mind that if you are using 5,6,7 for production, you are moving all the way out to those keys, pressing them, and pressing a specific key that may not be in the immediate vicinity. With the Q,W,E,R configuration, you aren't moving your thumb much or at all, and you aren't moving your fingers much or at all on Q,W,E,R, so this all comes down to a matter of preference really. Still, it is a con that some are noted to dislike. Feel free to move your production Control Groups to 5,6,7,8 or wherever you feel that they are the most comfortable, but try it out for a bit first!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M4Mh00S.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler +This section is for players who are seeking additional information that was not answered in other parts of this thread. It contains extra information that some may find useful. GRID EXPLAINED+ Show Spoiler +If you have no previous knowledge of Grid, this image will give you an idea of how unmodified Grid handles hotkeys. Fleet Keys Element adheres to Grid as displayed, whereas Alloy condenses and optimizes it. For example, you will see Build Basic and Build Advanced on Z and X. In Alloy, this is condensed to A and S, bringing it much closer to the rest of your keys. In most cases with Alloy, you will be primarily using Q-E, A-D for the majority of your commands. This is possible because Alloy was built on top of Standard, while mimicking a condensed Grid. Also keep in mind that Alloy handles Unit Commands like Attack, Hold Position, etc. in a different but much more efficient way than is shown here, as there is no reaching for R or T for your Unit Commands--only Q,W,E). With the Terran & Protoss layout, you have the option to use Space Bar (the Smart Key) for your most common/favorite abilities and commands. Check out the cheat sheet for most of the default Smart Key bindings (located on the far right).. The Smart key was originally introduced to assist players with performing their favorite and frequently-used commands. This allows players to take their Space Bar and bind one command to it, per different Command Card. The Smart Key is just one more option to take advantage of, and the fact that it is an alternating keystroke in many situations means it's almost always going to be quicker to use. Here are a few common examples of Smart Key sequences: - Select Probe/SCV -> A (or Space), Space, Click for Supply Depots/Pylons.
- Select Stalkers -> Space, click for Blink.
- Select Marines -> Space for Stim.
- Select Sentries -> Space click for Force Fields.
- Select Orbital or Nexus -> Space for Chrono or MULEs.
Now consider that every unit/structure can and does have a Smart Key binding like the examples, and it becomes clear how much utility this really offers. Combine this in some situations with Rapidfire and the advantages stretch out even further. This is a way to let the fingers do their work, while letting your thumb take on some of the burden that would normally require you to reach 1 or 2 keys away from where your fingers would normally want to be. It gives players a lot more control over what the layout can do for them at any given time or in select situations. While the default Smart Key bindings are sufficient for most players, the fact that it has full customization options really let players tailor it to their own specific needs should they ever find themselves wanting to squeeze more out of it. This feature is not included by default in the Alloy and Element Zerg layouts (Alloy Zerg can support it though). Some reasons why it is not included by default: - Players typically use Space Bar for Injects. Often times, players un-bind the Base Camera command from Backspace to Space Bar. It's a very "at-home" and familiar binding for many Zergs out there. Many also believe it's one of the most simple and optimal one.
- Lack of important Zerg unit abilities that benefit from the Smart Key.
- Zerg's low reliance on building production. Zerg has a much lower need for quick access to their structure hotkeys. Apart from Hatcheries and static defense, you don't need frequent access to structure hotkeys like you do for things like Pylons and Supply Depots.
Although Alloy uses this binding to a much more sophisticated degree than shown here (Element as well), you should get a good idea of how this ability behaves in-game if you don't already know. Khaldor was kind enough to give me a shout-out for my work on re-introducing rapidfire to the community (despite me being one of the last to formally present it :p) so that was really cool. In this video he shows you the binding that is changed, and how to "spam" with it. Also, here are some notes I made when testing out most, if not all applicable abilities when used with the Rapidfire Ability Key (could use editing here and there I'm sure). This is by no means something you absolutely have to read, as there is a fair bit of text. Skip to the end to see the notable results. PROTOSS+ Show Spoiler +- Warpgates. When used with the rapidfire feature, they adhere to the same limitations that other races experience when using a keyboard's repeat rate for queuing/morphing. Warping in units in the mid and late game can be done very quickly depending on the amount of Warpgates you own. The big limitation is that if you plan on warping in different types of units using the rapidfire feature, there will be a short delay between queuing different units, so it's not not usable in every Warp-in situation and hard to actually abuse in any meaningful way. Warping in one unit off of many gates is sped up dramatically though, so that's pretty cool!
I feel that this is actually fair. This levels the playing field for late game Protoss players who chose gateway-heavy compositions, and reduces needless repetition tied to a mechanic that is supposed to facilitate the concept of "instant reinforcement". It allows you to operate in some ways similar to that of Zerg production because of the benefits of repeat rate and repeat delays, but again, is limited to producing different unit types because of repeat delay.
- Nexus. Chronoboosting a lot of things at once becomes much quicker, but if you're keeping up with your macro, there's no immediate benefit gained from the rapidfire feature. A great way to dump Chrono energy. Watch out for Chornoboosting the same structure though, as you'll just waste energy that way.
- High Templar. Feedback. This spell really shines with the rapidfire feature. You can cast it quick, but relatively uncontrollably (much like ITs). Follows the same rules as Snipe though, in that you need a lot of HT's to make super-effective use of the rapidfire feature. Psi Storm remains a surgical spell in that you can't afford to waste them, so it remains mostly unaffected by the rapidfire feature. Morphing Archons remains the same, as its an ability that already reaps the benefits of your keyboard's repeat rate.
- Phoenix. Graviton Beam. You can have some fun with this without breaking anything in the game. You can spam the spell, and lift up many things. Watch out with this, as you won't be able to shoot anything if all of your Phoenixes are busy lifting unless you've got some other air-attacking support handy.
- Oracle. Doesn't benefit from the rapidfire feature much or at all. Nothing to really note here.
- Sentry. This unit doesn't really benefit too much from the rapidfire feature. Forcefields. You want to be surgical with them and spamming the spell is a good way to waste energy and lose the game. Hallucination. This is about the only good application of rapid fire for this unit, so that's good, as Sentries are already extremely powerful. Guardian Shield isn't relevant at all in this case.
- Orbital Commands. MULES can be rapidly called down, but you need a lot of energy and orbitals to really make great use of this. Still, it's cute if you want to dump energy when falling behind on macro, but won't affect a player who has solid macro mechanics. Calling down depots won't benefit much from the rapidfire feature. Scans can be spammed, but there's no reason to ever spam Scans due to wasteful casting past the first Scan, so that remains the same.
- Ghosts. When they are in excess numbers (at least 15-20, with near-full energy), the infamous Snipe exploit claws its way out of nerfing hell a bit. An unlikely situation, but still, a small possibility that isn't exactly realistic within the realm of standard play. EMP doesn't really benefit much from this (although the option is there to spam it), nor does Nuke.
- Raven. Seeker Missile. In large numbers, can benefit greatly from the rapidfire feature, provided that you actually need to send mass amounts of Seeker Missiles at the enemy. The potential to waste energy is still very much present, and aiming is tough, so that's fair. Autoturrets can be deployed faster, but they behave like structures, so you must be careful in your casting or you'll hit a lot of placement conflicts and only some will actually deploy. There's some skill involved there, with potential gain, so I like that. PDD's can be deployed faster, but treat them like Forcefields in that you don't want to spam them too much or at all.
- Battlecruisers. Yamato Cannon can be spammed to pretty good effect, so it's applicable and useful in a situation where you're looking to dump a ton of Yamato rounds into an opponent's army. Not a highly likely situation to be in, and only really appears when the game has gone on for far too long anyway. There's a lot of potential for overkill when using Yamato Cannon with the rapidfire feature.
- Queens. Transfuse. You can rapidly cast this spell, but not too much faster than a competent human could because it has a significant amount of delay. There is also a tendency to over-Transfuse on units that aren't at risk of dying (but are still slightly damaged), so it's more of a judgement call that can go good, or can go pretty bad due to wasted energy. Spawn Larva works with this, but the uses aren't very applicable unless you did what I did and bound the rapidfire key to Spawn Larva's key (the S key in Fleet Keys Alloy, which is central to the layout). It lets me cut out the mouse clicks while performing the Backspace Inject method, which is a pretty big deal depending on who you ask. A neat little improvement, but extreeemely specific both in terms of implementation and usage. Creep tumors. Now this is where the rapidfire feature shines with Zerg. If you ever get to the point where you are spreading Creep with multiple tumors (5 or more I'd say), or need to dump a Queen's energy quickly by placing Creep Tumors, then you're in luck, because you can eliminate the need to click to propagate the Creep Tumors, and the process is sped up by a considerable amount. Not a broken feature, but potentially very beneficial. Just watch where you aim your cursor as you cast, because you can cast close to your tumors and that should make you feel sad.
- Infestor. Infested Terrans can be spawned at rapid speeds. It's more of a double-edged sword when used with the rapidfire key rather than an exploit. You can spend your energy quick, but the expenditure is extremely hard to regulate when using them in conjunction with Fungal Growth. So you can waste your energy very quickly, but somewhat...uncontrollably. Works really well when using Infested Terrans as a harass method, as you dump the energy quick. Fungal Growth interacts poorly with rapidire, as energy is precious, and you don't want to waste your Fungals. Neural Parasite isn't really viable in most situations where you'd want to make Infestors, and wouldn't benefit the use of rapidfire much or at all. Only good use may be vs mass Archons, Carriers, Battlecruisers, Thors and other massed Infestors I suppose?
- Viper. Abduct. You can cast it quickly, but you have much less control over what you Abduct, and Abduct has a high energy cost anyway so it's not really game-breaking and can end bad for the Zerg spamming it. Blinding Cloud doesn't benefit from rapidfire, much like how spammed Forcefields don't. Consume benefits greatly from the rapidfire feature if you have large amount of Vipers. It makes queuing the ability up much quicker when you have about 6 to 8 or more Vipers (the most you probably would want in a normal game).
- Corruptor. These guys are able to spam Corruption to great effect, so that's pretty damn cool. You waste cooldown and not energy so there's some amount of forgiveness there, but you still have to be careful with where you're actually casting the spell, as you can cast multiple Corrupts on single targets and that's wasteful. The rapidfire feature takes some tedium out of Corrupting single targets in exchange for some chaotic rapid targeting. With careful aiming, the rapidfire feature allows a player to use this underused and often-times lackluster ability to greater effect. Overall, I really like it. It does the unit some justice and promotes the use of its ability.
Enhances the speed of Creep Spreading by a considerable amount. This works amazingly for spreading Creep when there are many active Creep Tumors that require propagation. Simply put, it saves you a lot of that normally requires excessive time and effort spent clicking. Mouseless Injects. Since you are able to target Hatcheries with the Spawn Larva ability, you are also able to confirm the target with the Rapidfire binding. When binding the Rapidfire Ability Key to the same key as Spawn Larva, you are able to perform Backspace method Injections without a mouse by selecting Queens, Spawn Larva key, then hold Shift, then Spawn Larva+Next Base for each base. Sounds like a lot, but it's really easy when done in-game. Warp-ins during mid and in late-game situations can be sped up by spamming a particular unit. Fairly useful, depending on the game state. Lategame Zealot harass comes to mind as common use. Snipe can be used in a near-identical way as the pre-nerf Snipe did. Snipe now does 25 (+ 25 to Psionic), instead of 45 flat damage. This nerf was applied in patch 1.4.3. The rapidfire feature can help out in certain situations where you slip on your macro with your Nexus or Orbital Commands. A great way to dump that energy FAST should you ever need to. The Rapidfire key can work against you. It's not a safety blanket or a means to outperform otherwise better players-- so if you are mindful of it, and use it intelligently as a tool used to speed up repetitive clicking actions, you can't go wrong. Crank up the scrolling sliders to as fast as possible . This is highly recommended for anyone who scrolls via Drag Scrolling or Mouse Scrolling (aka Edge Scrolling). For Drag Scrolling, this will reduce the distance your mouse will be forced to move drastically when going from one corner of the map to the other. For Mouse/Edge Scrolling, increasing this will cut out the time required when holding your cursor on the edge of the screen. Disable the Alt + Tab function and the Windows Key.Fleet Keys uses both the Alt and Tab keys quite a bit, so disabling these two options is absolutely critical. Alternating between them can cause you to "Tab out" during a game. How do you minimize the game after disabling Alt-tab? Well.... In Starcraft 2 on Windows PC’s there are currently 2 (as far as I know) alternative methods to tab out or minimize the game, even if you have Alt-Tab and the Windows key disabled. [list][*] Method 1: Ctrl + Esc. Minimizes game and behaves as if the Windows key was pressed, this method works the best. Use this one. [*] Method 2: Left Alt + Right Alt + Tab. Do this 1 to 3 times quick for it to kick in. A strange method for sure, but it's relevant and useful should Method 1 ever fail you. Make sure your other game settings are adjusted.If you are unsure about what settings to use for now, check out these videos, or similar videos and guides like it: Lowko's Settings and Gameplay Options - StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm (5:20) JaK's Optimal Settings for Starcraft 2 (Short Version) (2:13) JaK's Optimal Settings For Starcraft 2 (Long Version) (12:14) Hybrid Graphics Settings 2.0 thread by Existor and JaKaTaK (Recommended for those who want to delve deeper into settings) When adding to the Q-R Control Groups, you can instead use Ctrl+Q-R to add units to them as opposed to adding them by pressing Shift+Alt+Q-R (Fleet Keys' default adding method for Q-R). What this does is it eliminates one keystroke for the adding action, and can make adding multiple units/structures to things a bit smoother. However, you can always just double-click the unit/structure, and then add, so it's really up to what individual players are more comfortable with. Although this can be seen as a potential improvement, it is not intuitive, as Shift+Key adds to the majority of Fleet Keys' Control Groups, and Shift+Alt makes more sense given other bindings. Essentially, with the Ctrl+ method, you are making the adding process smoother by eliminating a keystroke, but at the cost of the hotkey flow of Fleet keys. You aren't on Alt after adding to jump directly into other commands, and you can't jump into Shift+Commands for units and rallies after adding to the group without moving your pinky up and down from Shift and Ctrl. So despite its increased efficiency in a vacuum, it does have various subtle drawbacks. After testing, it was found to be a useful feature that some players liked and some not so much. It was decided to at least be included in the Additional Info section despite not being a feature of the default Fleet Keys layout files. If you like the idea of using Ctrl to add to the Q-R Control Groups, then feel free to go ahead and try out these bindings. You can download the tester files featuring these changes through the main download links, or here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a34d7t3iq6hwpeq/xE4ZRyBxDUIf you would like to add these in manually, you certainly can. The game's UI will allow you to make the changes yourself, or you can even change these bindings in Notepad by opening up your .SC2HOTKEYS files (Right Click>Open with>Notepad) and changing the commands to what is listed under here. For Adding to Control GroupsControlGroupAppend0=Control+R ControlGroupAppend7=Control+Q ControlGroupAppend8=Control+W ControlGroupAppend9=Control+E For Creating Control GroupsControlGroupAssign0=Shift+Alt+R ControlGroupAssign7=Shift+Alt+Q ControlGroupAssign8=Shift+Alt+W ControlGroupAssign9=Shift+Alt+E The first place I saw this being used was in JaKaTaK's "TheCore" layout. Players wondered how it would work in Fleet Keys so we tried it out. There were lots of mixed results, but I decided to leave it as an option because some like adding to CG's this way. Despite being a one-man show here, it would be a crime to not mention the many community members who volunteered their time to at least answer my questions and do a lot of checking/critiquing/testing along the way. Hopefully this list will only grow, but for the time being, here you are: Ben
Therealdoc
Kaitlin
Existor
Ninjury_J
JaKaTaK
SixtusTheFifth
Alex
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This is cool and all, but could you explain where you put things like attack, stim, hold pos etc and hotkeys for upgrades like +1?
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That's pretty nice actually I personally won't change my hotkey layout because I am way to used to it, but somebody who hasn't played a lot yet could findthis very useful
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Some of your ideas are quite interesting, even though I'm not sure how effective it is having CGs 6-10 bound to a modifier key combination.
However, no matter how good the layout itself is, those master sheets are incredible. 10/10 production.
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It looks nice and all, but I'm still trying to imagine what how the hotkey combinations would be for protoss. Normally one would 1a2a3a, and in this it looks like 1t2t3t (which is nice!). But what about 1 set to blink, 2 for force fields, 3 for psionic storm, and 5 for photon over charge / time field. Would I be pressing 1z2x2z3z5c5z? it seems kind of tedious to press the top keys and then the ones on the very bottom. Also what would the warpgate button be?
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Seems like a great setup, but I can't find the folder for hotkeys on my Mac.
Anybody know where the files would go?
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Great layout, thank you!
Especially binding locations and warp-ins to alt is genious.
Although I am a lefty, this layout works great for me (except the space button, my poor thumb has to make awkward movements in order to reach it)
I use a German qwertz-keyboard (switching to the qwerty-layout via windows-key+space for SC2 though) and it seems that selecting idle workers/all units does not work properly (the hotkeys were bound to "alt+;"). Its easy to fix that, though.
One suggestion: Swap " ` " and " alt+` ", since comfortably selecting your army is more important than selecting idle workers.
Edit: This layout works great for me not 'although' but 'because' I am a lefty. Alt, Ctrl, Tab etc. are much better accessible when having your right hand on the keyboard (using the right thumb is more comfortable, using the forefinger instead of the pinky is also beneficial for most(?) people). Maybe you should consider moving the keys from the left- to the right-hand side of the keyboard in order to improve the layout for righties.
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On March 24 2013 02:29 Chungis wrote:
Seems like a great setup, but I can't find the folder for hotkeys on my Mac.
Anybody know where the files would go?
~/{username}/Library/Application Support/Blizzard/Starcraft II/Accounts/{bunch of numbers}/Hotkeys
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I tried this playing Protoss, it's nice though I found one thing annoying; pressing alt deselects the current unit in order to warp in. Selecting unit -> Go to camera location -> Click does not work.
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Ok, I'm back! I'll try to respond to these in order.
On March 24 2013 01:20 Zrana wrote:
This is cool and all, but could you explain where you put things like attack, stim, hold pos etc and hotkeys for upgrades like +1?
You don't necessarily assign the keys you mentioned. I mean you can, but being grid-based, Fleet Keys handles that in a very universal way. For example, take a look at the image in the "Grid Overview" section. It shows how unit command cards are treated, what commands are bound where, and how it's applied to each race (it doesn't change!). Move, Stop, Hold Position, Patrol, Attack, these are the same for all units across each race (Q,W,E,R,T, respectively). If you're still unsure, skim through the "Grid Overview" section to get a better understanding. As for the question about Stim, etc. Z is by default bound to Space bar (Z still works as Z should, Space Bar only acts as an alternate). Z, when using Grid, covers a wide range of abilities. Grid is soooo simple once you realize how it works, much more so than Standard.
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On March 24 2013 01:34 Shikyo wrote:
Some of your ideas are quite interesting, even though I'm not sure how effective it is having CGs 6-10 bound to a modifier key combination.
However, no matter how good the layout itself is, those master sheets are incredible. 10/10 production.
Thanks a lot, the production and presentation was very important. I included a lot of text for those who care to be proactive about what they may consider using, but I also decided to include simple/basic images to paint a quick picture of what I'm talking about. If you only look at the image spoilers, it's pretty easy to see what I'm communicating.
Having 4 (it's actually 4 not 6) of the 10 CG's bound under a modifier is not bad at all, especially if it means avoiding having to press 6-0 constantly throughout the game. Consider your average setup, not many players I've seen (although they do exist) manage to successfully harness 10 CG keys and make consistently efficient use of them. The default Fleet Keys configuration merely arranges them in a way that reduces jumping around too much on your keyboard, and gives you access to them all should you need them. Tab is always a good candidate for a production a structure, Q,W,E,R are convenient enough to press to dedicate CG's to, and 1-5, well, they behave as standard hotkeys do, so there's that old-fashioned appeal that's ever-present. I believe it provides you with the most in terms of power provided, without disorganized convolution. If you think of it in terms of "My armies and units go in this row, my production goes here" then it makes a lot more sense. Alt being the modifier is also the most functional one to choose, and easiest to press, so it was the only good option.
I had originally designed Fleet Keys to use Shift or Caps Lock as the modifier because if a bit smoother, but unfortunately, I couldn't find a legal way to implement this for a tournament setting, as I used Sharpkeys to re-bind Alt to Caps Lock through a registry change..
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On March 24 2013 01:46 DanceSC wrote:
It looks nice and all, but I'm still trying to imagine what how the hotkey combinations would be for protoss. Normally one would 1a2a3a, and in this it looks like 1t2t3t (which is nice!). But what about 1 set to blink, 2 for force fields, 3 for psionic storm, and 5 for photon over charge / time field. Would I be pressing 1z2x2z3z5c5z? it seems kind of tedious to press the top keys and then the ones on the very bottom. Also what would the warpgate button be?
1t 2t 3t 4t is how you would issue attack commands, yes.
With Grid, your spells, are laid out across z,x,c,v,b, although most units don't go past c. I found Z to contain some of the most important spells for Protoss, not to mention Chronoboost is also a Z command. So I bound Z to Space Bar (as an alternative to Z, Z is still left untouched) to get the most out of those commands. Z in Grid covers A LOT of useful commands, I list them in the Protoss sub-section labeled "Space Bar being bound as an alternate Z key."
As far as Warp-in is concerned, it's currently bound to Alt (the Protoss section covers this feature clearly and extensively).
I am currently looking into way of adding "T" to an alternate binding to make army control more fluid. Something that can be applied easily to all races. I was thinking possibly Alt + Left Click. Since you can hold Alt (without releasing it) while selecting any key ranging from 1-5, all the way down to Z to B, without consequence, I think this would actually work amazingly. Just an idea though, it may not even work until it's tested as it's something that just popped into my head.
Basically, you could hold Alt, and press 1+Double-Click, 2+Double-Click, 3+Double-Click, and so on to issue individual attacks commands to separate groups. I personally find T to be a bit out of the way for me, so will be worth looking into.
I strongly suggest taking a look at the Protoss section though, pretty much all of your questions are answered in detail there.
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On March 24 2013 02:29 Chungis wrote:
Seems like a great setup, but I can't find the folder for hotkeys on my Mac.
Anybody know where the files would go?
Metak wrote:
~/{username}/Library/Application Support/Blizzard/Starcraft II/Accounts/{bunch of numbers}/Hotkeys
Thanks Metak, I'll be putting that in the Q & A section.
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On March 24 2013 03:52 ProbeEtPylon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Great layout, thank you!
Especially binding locations and warp-ins to alt is genious.
Although I am a lefty, this layout works great for me (except the space button, my poor thumb has to make awkward movements in order to reach it)
I use a German qwertz-keyboard (switching to the qwerty-layout via windows-key+space for SC2 though) and it seems that selecting idle workers/all units does not work properly (the hotkeys were bound to "alt+;"). Its easy to fix that, though.
One suggestion: Swap " ` " and " alt+` ", since comfortably selecting your army is more important than selecting idle workers.
Edit: This layout works great for me not 'although' but 'because' I am a lefty. Alt, Ctrl, Tab etc. are much better accessible when having your right hand on the keyboard (using the right thumb is more comfortable, using the forefinger instead of the pinky is also beneficial for most(?) people). Maybe you should consider moving the keys from the left- to the right-hand side of the keyboard in order to improve the layout for righties.
Thanks a bunch ProbeEtPylon!
I've found that this layout works great the further your Alt key is positioned to the right, it's a very nice subtle advantage for players who play using Fleet Keys on laptops. Some foreign keyboards feature this type of layout as well as some gaming keyboards that have a Fn key, resulting in an Alt key that's more to the right. That can potentially help out an awkward thumb.
There is a reason behind Alt+` being bound to Idle Army, as opposed to just `. When you are playing, and you leave Alt held in, you can select your 1-5 group without any (known) issues. I didn't think players would want to be able to grab their whole army tooooo easily, so I put Idle Army on Alt+` to necessitate a more deliberate, yet fluid action should the occasion arise where you need to pull eveything back/push with everything. Idle workers was more of a choice that made sense conceptually. Idle army and Idle worker being bound to the same key felt right and looked great in layout sheets. I tried to find a way to bind Ctrl + ` (select ALL idle workers) to simply `, but there was no way to implement that. So I left the select Idle Worker command on ` as something of a fail-safe/dual purpose key for people who often use 1 for specific unit groups.
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On March 24 2013 05:42 Metak wrote:
I tried this playing Protoss, it's nice though I found one thing annoying; pressing alt deselects the current unit in order to warp in. Selecting unit -> Go to camera location -> Click does not work.
You're absolutely right, the Warp-in key does deselect your currently-selected units. When pressing Alt+Any Camera Location, what you're essentially doing, is clicking on all Warpgates and having them ready at your chosen location. The game needs you to deselect your units in order to actually select the 'Gates.
If the annoying part is the deselection of your units, there is no real way around that, that's just how the Warp-in key always worked. The remedy for losing control of your currently-selected units is simple. Make sure they are hotkeyed before initiating your Warp-ins, and you can pick up where you left off, every time. A massive advantage to hotkeying diligently is that when holding Alt (and not releasing it), you can jump to a location with A,S,D,etc, and then grab your unit groups from 1,2,3,4,5, and issue them commands while sitting at the current location of your camera.
A more loose way of handling this (and I reeeallly don't encourage it, but you may be in a situation that warrants it some day) is to select your units, order them to where you want them to go, initiate the Warp-ins, and then intercept your previously-selected group. This is not a good way of doing it though, it's just putting a band-aid over the cancer that is the habit of not hotkeying things. Hotkeying your units is key (no that's not a pun, but I'll laugh anyway, hawhaw)! With Fleet Keys you have 10 Control Group hotkeys at your disposal, 5 of them are prime candidates for unit Control Groups, so fill 'em up!
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Jump to location got messed up for me, is that because I use a nordic keyboard?
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Any plans for a southpaw version?
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Wow amazing work! I know it will be hard for me to transition but it will be worth it. Thank you for doing this for all of us.
I did find a typo in the master sheets for all the races. The entry is listed as select idle army instead of select all army. Not a huge issue.
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Wow, switching to this from standard is the hardest thing ever. I did 3 games and I don't think I can change. 
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On March 25 2013 08:40 GeeseHoward wrote:Wow, switching to this from standard is the hardest thing ever. I did 3 games and I don't think I can change.
keep at it. It will be hard but worth it in the end.
Try some games against AI, or play unranked. Also, search Hotkey Trainer in arcade and use that.
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I dunno, I kinda don't think it's really worth it right now. If anything, It's probably just better for me to remap ctrl groups 9 and 0 since I've been able to use 1 thru 8 fine.
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Looking forward to trying this out, been looking for something clean like this for awhile now.
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i made this account ages ago and i logged in today for this post
THIS IS FREAKING GENIUS O_O
like srsly whenever you bind camera to location and you press alt+w/e button you bound your off pylon to you are left with WG selected!
as for bindin move to 'q' and attack to 't' i think you shuld replace those why? most ppl move with right button anyway and when they are attacking well they are attacking thus q feels like a lot better for it 
10/10 )
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@ Geesehoward
If you're awesome, and you use Standard, then you're the man. Changing up your layout is a big step if you have a lot to lose. If you think it will help, then don't jump into ladder matches and discourage yourself. Just blow through a few easy AI games with a Master Sheet opened up to refer to. I don't go near ladder when I am doing anything hotkey-related, as it's the best way to send your MMR into the crapper.
Fleet Keys is just organized in a very non-arbitrary way as opposed to Standard. It's the opposite of the mess that is Standard (they hang onto Brood War legacy controls as the default, which is a damn shame, and a total disservice to new players imo). When I found out about Grid, although I, myself was hardwired into Standard at the time as well, I couldn't help but saying to my friend: "Why? They use command cards and present everything according to them... Why is Grid NOT the default setting? How come everyone isn't using this?". Needless to say, I never went back to Standard.
Switching is always going to be awkward to some degree, so do the adjustment in a stress-free environment. Don't let me discourage you with this, but Fleet Keys really is the most easy-to-pick-up advanced layout that I know of. I wouldn't have made it otherwise.
Thanks for trying it out though, if you decide to discontinue using Fleet Keys, lemme know what the worst and best parts were so I can try to refine it more. It would be a huge help! Thanks again, Geesehoward.
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On March 25 2013 07:13 StarkTemplar wrote:
Wow amazing work! I know it will be hard for me to transition but it will be worth it. Thank you for doing this for all of us.
I did find a typo in the master sheets for all the races. The entry is listed as select idle army instead of select all army. Not a huge issue.
Hey thanks for pointing that out. It's more of a bad habit than a typo, I genuinely call that command "Select Idle Army", probably because I played a shit-ton of Age of Mythology and they had a feature like that..Actually, they also had an idle worker command too... Hmmm, I wonder Blizzard devs like AOM *shrug*? I just relate it to that for some reason. I will change that though eventually, I want everything to be clean and accurate, so thank you again for pointing it out, seriously! I will make the change when I have a couple more updates to apply to the Master Sheets.
I don't know if you followed Fleet Keys at all after I released the first draft, but the current Master Sheets are basically trimmed, low-res friendly versions of the monstrous Master Sheets that I originally released with the original SC2HOTKEYS file. Some of the content in this thread was pulled out of the original Master Sheets and salvaged. "Macro Related", "Lethal Injections", the colored Q,W,E,R suggested mappings and some other pieces of info are actually excerpts of the Master Sheets of old.
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On March 25 2013 09:17 Micen wrote:
Looking forward to trying this out, been looking for something clean like this for awhile now.
Yeah, it's cleaned up quite nicely. The next step is to leave it the way it is, and add more functionality to make tasks like issuing attack commands and tabbing through Subgroups easier. Thanks for checking it out!
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On March 25 2013 09:24 c1neK wrote:i made this account ages ago and i logged in today for this post THIS IS FREAKING GENIUS O_O like srsly whenever you bind camera to location and you press alt+w/e button you bound your off pylon to you are left with WG selected! as for bindin move to 'q' and attack to 't' i think you shuld replace those why? most ppl move with right button anyway and when they are attacking well they are attacking thus q feels like a lot better for it 10/10 )
That's actually super flattering to hear, thanks a lot! The reward from working on this is paying off, especially with feedback like that.
The Warpgate thing is what all the Protoss players have been losing their shit over, it's pretty astounding. It's a sneaky, dirty trick for sure. I originally described it as abusive, as that was my reaction to it when I played Zerg exclusively. Fleet Keys was originally meant to be a Z layout, hence, my love of the Alt key. Queens are bound similarly to Warpgate as they are both bound to the "Sub-Grid Access Key", or the "QVKey" (Alt). Some call it fluid. Genius works too, haha...I still say it's abusive, in a good way.
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On March 25 2013 00:09 Tritone wrote:
Any plans for a southpaw version?
I could try. The vast majority of keyboards in existence don't really change much on the left side, while on the right side, you get all kinds of bogus stuff going on like enlarged Enter keys, tiny Backspace keys, "that damn key" (brings up context menus), and other size-variant issues that (at first glance) shove Fleet Keys out of the comfortable zone it currently lies in. Perhaps that's all in my head though...I'd love to see a southpaw version of Fleet Keys that works as good as the current one.
I am actually a lefty myself, with a messed-up pinky to boot. Sadly, early on in my life, I conformed to the ways of the right-handed world as much as I could. I only use my left hand to write, and that's about the extent of my lefty-ism, so I don't think I should be the one dictating how a lefty setup should work. I would like to make Fleet Keys available to more people, though.
I'm trying to position my right hand over my keyboard right now in a way that makes the most sense, but it's super awkward, haha. Help me out here, how would I actually set this thing up for lefties? I use this Das Keyboard. Given that, how would this southpaw version be best situated?
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Wow another hotkey setup lol.....just wondering, can't people just play with the standard, default hotkey?
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I feel like the morph drone (which is now QQ) is slower than the standard SD button.
it should be because of the repeat key press on the same key is slower than hitting two different keys
Having T as attack is kinda hard because almost every rts and moba game has A for attack move.
but I am not good at adapting to new layout kinda person, so maybe for some it will come natural and don't find that to be a trouble at all
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On March 25 2013 12:38 ETisME wrote:
I feel like the morph drone (which is now QQ) is slower than the standard SD button.
it should be because of the repeat key press on the same key is slower than hitting two different keys
Having T as attack is kinda hard because almost every rts and moba game has A for attack move.
but I am not good at adapting to new layout kinda person, so maybe for some it will come natural and don't find that to be a trouble at all
On March 25 2013 12:38 ETisME wrote:
I feel like the morph drone (which is now QQ) is slower than the standard SD button.
it should be because of the repeat key press on the same key is slower than hitting two different keys
Having T as attack is kinda hard because almost every rts and moba game has A for attack move.
but I am not good at adapting to new layout kinda person, so maybe for some it will come natural and don't find that to be a trouble at all
QQ is annoying for sure, but it works amazingly for the other races. It's so good, you'd be hard-pressed to come up with an easier way to make workers than hitting Tab>Q. I am coming up with a solution to "T", believe me, I don't like where it lies either, it will be getting a good alternative binding to leave Grid untouched, while allowing for easy Attack commands.
Reasons for keeping Tab>Q>Q central to the Zerg layout:
- The keystrokes are in perfect line to select all Hatcheries. You basically drop your Ring and middle finger down and then most of the work is done. No hotkey layout can evade the Larva issue. Tab>Q is extremely easy to set yourself up for being able to produce any Zerg units at any time or place. Hitting, say, 4>S>D, or even Tab>S>D feels awful, and for many Zerg, 4>S>D is Standard procedure. Tab>Q>Q can be done fast, and is pretty relaxing. This benefits Zerg production overall in a positive way, and keeps Grid intact.
- When you are droning, most times you'll be making as many as you can, or more than 1 at least. Tab>Q>Q(hold) isn't a hard sequence to perform to power Drones, and requires very little movement outside normal operation.
- When making Overlords things get even easier. To make them, you press Tab>Q>W, it's a natural falling motion for your fingers. Other races benefit from only Tab>Q, but no other race can increase their supply cap with a simple fall/dropping motion of their hand. As you can see, other benefits surface with this kind of setup. All of this ties into a large pictrure though.. Because---
- When using default Fleet Keys and its suggested bindings, you get the benefit of having your economy/supply/production sitting on your Hatcheries. This may not sound crazy, but it is. Alt+Q>W>E lets you watch the progress of anything Hatchery-based, from any 3 Hatcheries, including Injects, the most important part. When I am able to update, I'll illustrate what I'm about to mention much better. 1/3 of the way through an Inject cycle (15 seconds), if you Queue up an Overlord, it will finish when the Larvae pop. It's a big deal. A huge deal. When you check your Hatcheries during an Inject with Alt+Q,W,E, and you catch that timing to make an Overlord, you just release Alt, and drop your fingers across Tab>Q>W and continue on. Congratulations, in 25 seconds, your production and supply cap will vault ahead, and you'll be all like-----!.
- As an extension to the last reason, I'm going to put vision advantage on here, as a side-benefit. If you are regularly creating Overlords, and you're being responsible about them (sending them to key locations while they're eggs), you are ramping your vision up steadily and efficiently. This leaves you prepared for any 7-10 minutes push, as you'll have enough Overlords created to cover almost all important paths, and also a decent supply cap advantage due to diligent Overlord production/placement.
That's a lot of info, and yeah, I'll be re-using some of it at some point, so it's not all just hot air..
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On March 25 2013 10:53 Swordland wrote:
Wow another hotkey setup lol.....just wondering, can't people just play with the standard, default hotkey?
The standard layout sucks. I would venture to say that the main reason that pros use it still is simply because of the amount of time they've invested, muscle memory, etc, before hotkey customization was possible. However, for more casual players, it's much more productive to find a more friendly hotkey setup.
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On March 25 2013 14:04 Kaitlin wrote:
The standard layout sucks. I would venture to say that the main reason that pros use it still is simply because of the amount of time they've invested, muscle memory, etc, before hotkey customization was possible. However, for more casual players, it's much more productive to find a more friendly hotkey setup.
Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head there Kaitlin. Standard doesn't off a whole lot (if anything) for new players. As a new player without much muscle memory tied to the game, you have all the choice and advantage of a fresh start. With experienced players saying things like "I wish I could switch, but I'm stuck in my habits", it's the classic case of a young person being told by an older one "Don't do what I did--- Go to school!".
Even lightly modifying Standard yields little improvement in the way of convenience and comfort, so I have no use or kind words for it whatsoever. I believe that as an entry-level layout, Standard Grid should be the default hotkey setting. Not everyone who plays SC2 had to suffer through BW hotkeys, so I ask why keep Standard as the default? I suppose I'll never get an answer..
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I find one issue with alt bound to warpins AND being used as a modifier for map keys. While it is great to use for quick snap reaction warp ins, it seems to make pulling probes off the mineral line to another base a big issue, as it deselects the probes to go to a new map location. For instance, using other layouts I may see danger in my main (drop), hit map hotkey 1 to view my main, ctrl click/ box probes to select as many as I can in one action, hit map hotkey 2, and immediately click to send my probes scurrying for safety. However using your method, one would box the probes...hit the map hotkeys... and bam selecting warpgates, probes still in base getting destroyed by whatever harrass/attack you are trying to avoid. Is there anyway to incorporate both advantages? Otherwise I would be totally sold for this layout.
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Tbh as I saw the Thread-Title I thought to myself "Ugh, just another of these highly technical Hotkey-Setups that force me to completely abandon most of my keyboard habits."
I am glad that I opened it anyways. Your setup looks very intelligent, intuitive and adaptable to my already established habits. Definitively going to give it a shot and will report how it worked.
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this alt + camera hotkey is weird because the whole point of using that hotkeys is to be quick and having to click 2 buttons doesnt help. why not just use f1-f4?
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Just out of curiosity, could you list maybe some advantages your layout has over TheCore or Chameleon? I have changed to TheCore as soon as it was released for the first time and I am really happy with it, however, it would be interesting to see why someone could prefer your layout. Especially for my friends who started to play SC2 with the standard layouts just a couple of months ago.
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Just a quick question. Can I use my Spacebar key assigned to Drag Camera? Spacebar is all the time used to this, as I cant use the standard middle-mouse button to move around. I just see the Spacebar as listed, but I cant find what its usage are for. Sorry if its easily accessable, at work and probably didnt't look througly.
PS: I love your work. This is amazing, and I am VERY good at getting used to new keys. It's like learning to play a new piece of music, on say guitar. And I really like the location perk, its one of the main reasons I like this, and as well as having an easier time selecting Stargate, forge, robo.
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I just switched over to GRID, not the Fleet keys but I am going through the awkward transition stage.
I can already tell that grid is superior, far simplier, I ended up switching the T key to A, and the W key to S, so that Attack and Stop are back where they were in default. Learning the new production keys isnt any harder with that change, and attack moving remains feeling natural. Of course the keys aren't as nicely aligned with their placement in the UI anymore, but your trying to turn it into muscle memory anyway, so its irrevelvent.
This looks cool though, I am going to try it.
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On March 25 2013 22:49 KuBa wrote:
Just out of curiosity, could you list maybe some advantages your layout has over TheCore or Chameleon? I have changed to TheCore as soon as it was released for the first time and I am really happy with it, however, it would be interesting to see why someone could prefer your layout. Especially for my friends who started to play SC2 with the standard layouts just a couple of months ago.
I'd say the main thing Fleet Keys has over TheCore is that it keeps your keyboard hand where you're used to having it, so it's a bit easier to learn in that regard.
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I was already a grid user, the only thing I had changed was to put the "Base Camera" on Mouse 4 (Side button), and I decided to make the switch to Fleet Keys. I made a small writeup to give my impressions and maybe convince people to use this one. I will describe my previous hotkeys habits, as well as my impressions on this new hotkey setting as a Zerg player. Bear in mind this is the first time I'm switching hotkeys in my SC2 history.
Previous hotkeys
1°) My 1A army
2°)Harrassment army
3°)Spellcaster
4°)Queens
5°)Hatcheries
6°)EvoChambers/Spires
I was never ever using Camera Location hotkeys.
Changes I made to Fleet Keys
I only made one little change to Fleet Keys :
1°)Change the Base Camera from Spacebar to Mouse 4
Impressions after a few games
1°) The hardest habit is to press Tab rather than 5 to build stuff. Since I used my index to press 5, I now have to use my ring finger, which can be quite distracting.
2°) The inject method, using Alt to select the Queens, got me in trouble several times, when I was franticly trying to inject using 4, but everything is smoother now that I'm used to it.
3°) The biggest change is that I'm now able to smoothly record Camera Locations and ping back to those places. What I'm using it for is mainly creep tumor and defend harassment/drops, do you see other ways I could use those?
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On March 25 2013 18:05 Serz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I find one issue with alt bound to warpins AND being used as a modifier for map keys. While it is great to use for quick snap reaction warp ins, it seems to make pulling probes off the mineral line to another base a big issue, as it deselects the probes to go to a new map location. For instance, using other layouts I may see danger in my main (drop), hit map hotkey 1 to view my main, ctrl click/ box probes to select as many as I can in one action, hit map hotkey 2, and immediately click to send my probes scurrying for safety. However using your method, one would box the probes...hit the map hotkeys... and bam selecting warpgates, probes still in base getting destroyed by whatever harrass/attack you are trying to avoid. Is there anyway to incorporate both advantages? Otherwise I would be totally sold for this layout.
Response:
You may not like the answer to this, but Caps Lock is in line with the first 4 Camera Locations so you're able to to do this: select workers>Caps Lock>Right Click on patch/anywhere. When you press Caps Lock, be happy in knowing it always has that auto-center feature which makes quickly clicking on your mineral patches way easier. This is still pretty fast, and it's a smooth action, it just isn't immediately intuitive and obvious, which makes me kind of sad. You can always click the Minimap and do it manually, but I feel bad even suggesting that.
Caps Lock (Next Base) was put there for that very reason. I found that the ready Warp-in advantage did a lot for a player. With Warp-in bound to Alt, you should be gradually trained to hotkey things of importance, such as armies, and small groups of units like spellcasters/harassers so you can recall them quickly after a fast Warp-in reinforcement. Some times it's nice to just be able to tap through your bases with Caps Lock, but in this situation, it's encouraged to use it as your escape plan with workers.
Yes, Caps Lock for Next Base>Right Click is not what you'd expect for a solution from this layout, but it's the best I could do (atm) for situations like that. Zerg will have a similar issue, but Space Bar is a bit easier to press in that regard.
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On March 25 2013 23:09 nottapro wrote:
I just switched over to GRID, not the Fleet keys but I am going through the awkward transition stage.
I can already tell that grid is superior, far simplier, I ended up switching the T key to A, and the W key to S, so that Attack and Stop are back where they were in default. Learning the new production keys isnt any harder with that change, and attack moving remains feeling natural. Of course the keys aren't as nicely aligned with their placement in the UI anymore, but your trying to turn it into muscle memory anyway, so its irrevelvent.
This looks cool though, I am going to try it.
Having attack on T is a bit of a pain I'll admit. I have been trying to find ways around it in the form of a alternate binding, but my plan has blown up in the sense that you can't combine Alt with your Left Click (this would be a brilliant binding, stupid efficient, but the game won't accept it). Breaking up the Grid by putting T on A or E, W, or anywhere else that displaces Grid's formation is something I'm avoiding like the plague. The game denied my simple solution, and that's discouraging given its simple implementation and the fact that it's totally bereft of consequences. Imagine that, Alt+Left Click = A-move. Total bonkers.
The only headway I made in that regard is I managed to go into Left Click's settings, and bind T to it, so that when you press T, you can double-tap T to assign A-move commands, or hold in T to lead an army forward on A-move through repeated A-move commands based on your keyboard's repeat rate/delay. It's pretty neat to see! Not sure if it holds any dire consequences or provides significant advantages, so I'm not directly encouraging it, but again, it does feel pretty damn cool...
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On March 25 2013 08:55 Rankith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 08:40 GeeseHoward wrote:Wow, switching to this from standard is the hardest thing ever. I did 3 games and I don't think I can change. keep at it. It will be hard but worth it in the end. Try some games against AI, or play unranked. Also, search Hotkey Trainer in arcade and use that.
Switching your hotkeys is a waste of time. All that matters is what you are comfortable with. Most pros use the standard hotkey layout and some pros from broodwar even switched sc2 hotkeys like marine to m. These hotkey layouts might be good for people just starting out but for others they are a complete waste of time and will not improve your play.
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I haven't looked at this setup in detail, but I have a suggestion for those concerned about the use of Alt as the warp-in causing their unit selection to be lost. This is based on how my own custom setup is configured.
Tip: Instead of having warp-in bound to Alt, assign a specific combination, such as Alt + key, for warp-in. For example, if Alt+C is a camera location, you might have Alt+X as warp-in. This way, two fingers on C and X, while holding Alt will activate both the camera location, and the warp-in together. It also protects your unit selection when you select camera locations by themselves, because you're not activating the warp-in when you don't want to. Alternatively, you could choose an easier key to use in combination with your camera locations, such as Alt+F for your warp-in, this would make it easier to use in combination with more than one camera location, expanding the usability.
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On March 25 2013 23:38 JDub wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 22:49 KuBa wrote:
Just out of curiosity, could you list maybe some advantages your layout has over TheCore or Chameleon? I have changed to TheCore as soon as it was released for the first time and I am really happy with it, however, it would be interesting to see why someone could prefer your layout. Especially for my friends who started to play SC2 with the standard layouts just a couple of months ago. I'd say the main thing Fleet Keys has over TheCore is that it keeps your keyboard hand where you're used to having it, so it's a bit easier to learn in that regard.
I'd say the things that stand to me is what you said, and a couple other things.
Fleet Keys puts some of the "don't press too many keys that are far apart" theory into action as far as basic macro and other actions are concerned, but TheCore and Chameleon try to do this almost always, which cuts down on a lot jump jumping around on the keyboard. Despite the unorthodox approach to control, it achieves its goals for efficiency and ergonomics.
Fleet Keys stays (relatively) close to familiarity while maximizing as many flowing actions as possible, coupled with simple arrangement.
TheCore and Chameleon (I'm pretty sure Chameleon does) play off of mostly statistical data to arrange their keys in a "most-used" fashion, in other words-- prioritized key placement. It may not be comfortable in a learning sense, since people tend to want to play differently, nor is it intuitive until you really spend time/get comfortable with those layouts, but it's designed to be efficient and ergonomic and their team really does pull it off. Despite their high learning curve, they're extremely thought-out and developed layouts. I admire the lengths the team go, and their commitment their layout(s). That kind of ambition is really exciting to see, and on the whole, it portrays a great image of passionate people working on what we all love.
Fleet Keys and TheCore layouts are so fundamentally different; new players and people looking to learn new layouts are finally able to walk both ends of the hotkey spectrum when choosing/observing. The two layouts (Fleet Keys & TheCore) serve very different purposes and excel at both of them. Players need that polarization when it comes to finding advanced hotkey layouts that suit them. Fleet Keys began as me not feeling comfortable with every other layout I attempted to learn, so it was a natural step.
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On March 25 2013 22:38 ViceRoyce wrote:
this alt + camera hotkey is weird because the whole point of using that hotkeys is to be quick and having to click 2 buttons doesnt help. why not just use f1-f4?
I responded to this question, but I will sum it up quickly. You can use Caps Lock to hop between bases, and that action also has auto-centered buildings, so it's easy to box your workers, press Caps Lock, and the Right-Click on your minerals. Aside from doing this manually through clicking the minimap, this is currently the best solution.
Kaitlin mentioned moving Warp-in to another key such as F to make it more deliberate. Even though it adds an extra keystroke to reactively Warp-in, I think it's worth trying out.
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On March 25 2013 23:00 crappen wrote:
Just a quick question. Can I use my Spacebar key assigned to Drag Camera? Spacebar is all the time used to this, as I cant use the standard middle-mouse button to move around. I just see the Spacebar as listed, but I cant find what its usage are for. Sorry if its easily accessable, at work and probably didnt't look througly.
PS: I love your work. This is amazing, and I am VERY good at getting used to new keys. It's like learning to play a new piece of music, on say guitar. And I really like the location perk, its one of the main reasons I like this, and as well as having an easier time selecting Stargate, forge, robo.
What race are you playing? If Terran or Protoss, then most of this reply applies to you, if Zerg, skip to the last paragraph.
About the drag-cam, yeah you could totally change that if you deem it necessary.
By changing Space Bar's default binding, you'll have be be ok with using Z to access your build command as well as your important macro abilities/spells, as Space Bar used to take care of all that for you. It isn't the worst thing ever, especially if you're well versed in Grid. If you feel that it works, then by all means! Thanks a lot for loving the layout, hopefully you can bend it just enough to suit you.
As Zerg, Space Bar is bound to the Next Base command. Pressing it will hop to your next Hatchery, and then the next, etc. It's bound like this to make Injects super easy to perform (Alt>X+Space Bar>Left Click).
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On March 25 2013 23:09 nottapro wrote:
I just switched over to GRID, not the Fleet keys but I am going through the awkward transition stage.
I can already tell that grid is superior, far simplier, I ended up switching the T key to A, and the W key to S, so that Attack and Stop are back where they were in default. Learning the new production keys isnt any harder with that change, and attack moving remains feeling natural. Of course the keys aren't as nicely aligned with their placement in the UI anymore, but your trying to turn it into muscle memory anyway, so its irrevelvent.
This looks cool though, I am going to try it.
I think the temporary solution to A-moving right now is putting the bulk of your army on something like 3,4, or 5 to at least keep the keys next to eachother. I thought about making Fleet Keys Standard-based to mimic Grid as much as possible, but you'll always run into the same issue of Grid being broken/re-arranged strangely for the sake of a more accessible Attack command. I'm trying to resolve this any way I can that doesn't interfere with Grid.
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Question 1:
One biggest criticisms of TheCore is that JaKaTaK is only in the Platinum league and thus is not able to fully comprehend the game at a high level. (Which may or may not be true, depending one's perspective.) What league are you in with each of the three races, respectively?
Question 2:
One of the biggest innovations of TheCore is, for right-handed people, to move the left hand to the right side of the keyboard. This allows the modifier keys to be pressed with the thumb instead of the pinky. Since the modifier keys are the most frequently pressed keys, it should be intuitive that this will allow for faster APM, less hand contortion, less hand strain, and so forth. In your hotkey layout, you have deliberately forgone this optimization in favor of not alienating people transitioning from the grid layout. Have you ever actually given yourself time to adjust to a hotkey setup in which the thumb is used for modifier keys? If so, can you go into the concrete reasons as to why you didn't feel it necessary to include in your setup? This is a huge omission and I see it as (currently) the biggest flaw with your setup.
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edit: double post...almost my first time here..sorry!
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Great post, really thorough. I built my own hotkey setup with a similar logic that you used to create yours, i ended up at a really similar result, I really like the way mine is working out. Just wanted to share some differences I find work for me. Id encourage you to try using a grid layout mapped to standard.
i wanted everything as close to asdf as possible. Of course, the grid was the obvious solution, but its so restrictive in that you can't make any alteration to any specific unit/buildings, and i found that having stop and attack as non adjacent keys was a deal breaker, and then if you put them together on a grid layout, it makes other menus, like production buildings, feel strange.
So, what i did was start by mapping the grid to standard, so its functionally the same, but now you have full control of each menu on a grid setup. Then I swapped out attack and pushed patrol and hold over a key, while still being able to keep every non-unit menu, like production buildings at the grid-like qwert for the top row of units.
So, I'd suggest that if you like the concept of grid, but have specific issues, just map the grid to standard, and then change your specific issue. It gives you very specific control and customization instead of basically none, just at the price of a longer initial setup.
Here are some other differences I find useful:
-q is a really common key, as the top left in the grid, and i find w way easier than q to hit often, so i start at w and go to y.
-same thing with spell casters, i prefer asd to zxc, so for those units i just kind of swapped the middle and bottom rows of the grid (i think this is the best part of the fleet layout, spell casting is so much easier now that all casters use the same keys and they are always adjacent)
-I like space, instead of Control-1 for making your main army group, so i just box and hit space and then that's my first control group. Its really fast and i like having one control group i can change in battle to set up a flank or something, as i personally can't do Ctrl X while trying to multitask
-I use middle mouse click as a way to cycle through subgroups.
-i hit caps lock by mistake sometimes so i cant have it on anything
On March 26 2013 05:21 eneyeseekay wrote:
I think the temporary solution to A-moving right now is putting the bulk of your army on something like 3,4, or 5 to at least keep the keys next to eachother. I thought about making Fleet Keys Standard-based to mimic Grid as much as possible, but you'll always run into the same issue of Grid being broken/re-arranged strangely for the sake of a more accessible Attack command. I'm trying to resolve this any way I can that doesn't interfere with Grid.
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Like OP I've spent ages making a Grid hotkey setup that works for me, I was given the spacebar as Z idea by the guy who got me playing competitively. But I'm gonna hopefully help out a fair few people with this:
Go into hotkey on notepad and at the bottom enter
[Commands]
Attack=R
MovePatrol=T
1r,2r,3r is about as comfortable as you can get with Grid and is so much better than 1t, it just feels right. If you want Q/W/E instead as the attack command you can change it but you have to switching the appropriate keys.
Move=Q
MoveHoldPosition=E
What's amazing is this doesn't actually change ANYTHING else in the game in terms of hotkeys, I'm not 100% sure but you might be able to put individual abilities (Tranfuse etc) on different keys if you find out the correct command name but I've not experimented much with it, as all I wanted was default Grid with the above change. (just tested you can put most of the individual abilities on seperate hotkeys not allowed by Grid unless you edit by notepad, for example you can have an infestor fungal on F but have nothing else effected.. very interesting!
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7979378086?page=1 = lists all abilties
< More info that people might find interesting
Some people recommend having x (inject) on mouse 5 aswell, but I prefer having modifiers on the mouse keys for recalling cameras (I know it's not tournament legal though).
N as zoom toggle is good for observer sniping with T, and having idle workers on H instead of ` allows you to keep ` as another Control group hotkey if you don't like the idea of layered control groups (I don't :<) Also having zoom toggle as N allows you to use mousewheel up and down as hotkeys too, Ctrl+mousewheelup : 1 drop, Ctrl+mousewheeldown : 2nd drop is pretty sexy for multi drop harass / warp prism play. >
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I few things I don't like about this setup. (I'm not trying to hurt just giving an opinion)
1 - As a grid user I've always made my own grid layout instead of selecting -Grid in the drop-down menu. I do think because I like to have full customization over hotkeys. Mainly (A) to attack instead of (T) I think giving people the option to customize to their own play-style would be another big plus when it comes to wanted to use this layout. Also as mentioned above using the (Alt) key to warp in can be problematic.
2- I'm probably the only one but when it comes to creating and selecting camera groups (A and B) it doesn't make them. But it makes (D, F) which I'm assuming there's something I need to de-select. (NOTE: I did de-select Alt-Tab)
Other than that I think this is one of the best Grid-Style layouts made. I appreciate a reply and I thank you for your efforts.
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@Rockafella
I did not know about the notepad thing. That's really cool, definitely bookmarking that! Thanks for the post btw.
Do you know if there's a list of tournament-illegal bindings? I hear of them every so often but nobody ever went into deatil about them. Outside of macros, I don't see why they would even exist, but I could be missing something (the likely thing lol). Can you, or anyone enlighten me on the topic of banned bindings since I know very little about it? I'll look for a thread in the meantime.
@frankfasthands
Last night I started poking around in a Standard layout that tried to mimic Grid. I'm actually pretty bummed out at one major issue that could solve all of this, and I wonder if you know anything about it. I want to apply modifier combinations with Left Click and/or Right Click. I want T's alternate Binding on Modifier?+Left Click. Is anything like that possible? I might have some other solutions, but I'll have to test them out.
Standard wearing Grid's skin might be the direction I'll go once I wrap my head around the options that are available. I'm really stoked that that idea isn't a completely crazy one, and is an option at least. Thanks for the input on that.
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On March 26 2013 11:13 BaRR wrote:
I few things I don't like about this setup. (I'm not trying to hurt just giving an opinion)
1 - As a grid user I've always made my own grid layout instead of selecting -Grid in the drop-down menu. I do think because I like to have full customization over hotkeys. Mainly (A) to attack instead of (T) I think giving people the option to customize to their own play-style would be another big plus when it comes to wanted to use this layout. Also as mentioned above using the (Alt) key to warp in can be problematic.
2- I'm probably the only one but when it comes to creating and selecting camera groups (A and B) it doesn't make them. But it makes (D, F) which I'm assuming there's something I need to de-select. (NOTE: I did de-select Alt-Tab)
Other than that I think this is one of the best Grid-Style layouts made. I appreciate a reply and I thank you for your efforts.
I keep hearing about making Fleet Keys in Standard and I think I will draft a version of it and see how people like it. Hey don't worry about offering constructive criticism, no hurt taken. It's one more comment to push this thing in a better direction!
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On March 26 2013 11:20 eneyeseekay wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 11:13 BaRR wrote:
I few things I don't like about this setup. (I'm not trying to hurt just giving an opinion)
1 - As a grid user I've always made my own grid layout instead of selecting -Grid in the drop-down menu. I do think because I like to have full customization over hotkeys. Mainly (A) to attack instead of (T) I think giving people the option to customize to their own play-style would be another big plus when it comes to wanted to use this layout. Also as mentioned above using the (Alt) key to warp in can be problematic.
2- I'm probably the only one but when it comes to creating and selecting camera groups (A and B) it doesn't make them. But it makes (D, F) which I'm assuming there's something I need to de-select. (NOTE: I did de-select Alt-Tab)
Other than that I think this is one of the best Grid-Style layouts made. I appreciate a reply and I thank you for your efforts. I keep hearing about making Fleet Keys in Standard and I think I will draft a version of it and see how people like it. Hey don't worry about offering constructive criticism, no hurt taken. It's one more comment to push this thing in a better direction!
Any idea about the camera setup
Also keep strong in this project. I've tried many custom key layouts (including the alien 'Core') but this seems to be the best for grid-users..
Keep up the good work and thankyou!
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@BaRR
So the problem is when you press Ctrl+A or Ctrl+B you can't recall them with Alt+A and Alt+B? What about the rest of them? Does S,Z,X and C work for you when creating/recalling cameras?
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On March 26 2013 11:31 eneyeseekay wrote:
@BaRR
So the problem is when you press Ctrl+A or Ctrl+B you can't recall them with Alt+A and Alt+B? What about the rest of them? Does S,Z,X and C work for you when creating/recalling cameras?
Yes this is the main problem I have. I can make and recall camera groups (D,F) I never use more then 1-4 camera groups so I didn't try with the others. Its just (Ctrl + A & B) & (Alt + A & B)
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On March 26 2013 11:34 BaRR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 11:31 eneyeseekay wrote:
@BaRR
So the problem is when you press Ctrl+A or Ctrl+B you can't recall them with Alt+A and Alt+B? What about the rest of them? Does S,Z,X and C work for you when creating/recalling cameras? Yes this is the main problem I have. I can make and recall camera groups (D,F) I never use more then 1-4 camera groups so I didn't try with the others. Its just (Ctrl + A & B) & (Alt + A & B)
Which race? I'm about to look into this now, hopefully this isn't an issue with the files up for downloads.. I don't run into this when testing the hotkeys, as I use A,S,D,F pretty extensively.
Would you be able to send me your hotkey file? If possible, mail it to eneyeseekay999@gmail.com? Be sure to add your name to the end of it too and I'll dissect it.
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United Kingdom20278 Posts
Fleet Keys is a series of Grid-based
Sorry, this is just a massive turn off
I never understood the grid system, it implies you are actually staring at the command card and need to look at the position of the icon to know which key to hit..
With a blank keyboard in a dark room and eyes on resources/minimap (about as far away as you can get from command card) or game screen that never made any sense to me.
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On March 26 2013 11:44 eneyeseekay wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 11:34 BaRR wrote:On March 26 2013 11:31 eneyeseekay wrote:
@BaRR
So the problem is when you press Ctrl+A or Ctrl+B you can't recall them with Alt+A and Alt+B? What about the rest of them? Does S,Z,X and C work for you when creating/recalling cameras? Yes this is the main problem I have. I can make and recall camera groups (D,F) I never use more then 1-4 camera groups so I didn't try with the others. Its just (Ctrl + A & B) & (Alt + A & B) Which race? I'm about to look into this now, hopefully this isn't an issue with the files up for downloads.. I don't run into this when testing the hotkeys, as I use A,S,D,F pretty extensively. Would you be able to send me your hotkey file? If possible, mail it to eneyeseekay999@gmail.com? Be sure to add your name to the end of it too and I'll dissect it.
Its been sent. As for race, I play all three but have only tested these hotkeys on protoss.
Thanks for the dedication
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On March 26 2013 12:02 Cyro wrote:Sorry, this is just a massive turn off I never understood the grid system, it implies you are actually staring at the command card and need to look at the position of the icon to know which key to hit.. With a blank keyboard in a dark room and eyes on resources/minimap (about as far away as you can get from command card) or game screen that never made any sense to me.
Hey Cyro let me try to clear it up for you a bit.
The big appeal of Grid is because you can play by feel across a more unified control scheme. Treat every command card as being laid across Q-T, A-G, Z-B. It's more of a "touch" way to lay out your hotkeys, and it doesn't ever require you to press keys past 5,T,G,B, so everything is within a couple key's reach. Grid isn't for everyone, and neither is standard.
It's true that when you are learning Grid, you'll be glancing at the command card to know what keys to press, but it's not a bad thing. In fact, you'll be glancing there for a bit until you get the hang of it, but you probably won't be clicking on the command card for performing actions, because the keys should never be too far from you fingers. You'll have to learn a setup regardless, and that's how Grid is learned. It's all done by a very localized touch-based way to play, it may not be for everyone, but it's pretty damn cool in my opinion (of course I'd say that though lol).
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On March 26 2013 12:13 BaRR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 11:44 eneyeseekay wrote:On March 26 2013 11:34 BaRR wrote:On March 26 2013 11:31 eneyeseekay wrote:
@BaRR
So the problem is when you press Ctrl+A or Ctrl+B you can't recall them with Alt+A and Alt+B? What about the rest of them? Does S,Z,X and C work for you when creating/recalling cameras? Yes this is the main problem I have. I can make and recall camera groups (D,F) I never use more then 1-4 camera groups so I didn't try with the others. Its just (Ctrl + A & B) & (Alt + A & B) Which race? I'm about to look into this now, hopefully this isn't an issue with the files up for downloads.. I don't run into this when testing the hotkeys, as I use A,S,D,F pretty extensively. Would you be able to send me your hotkey file? If possible, mail it to eneyeseekay999@gmail.com? Be sure to add your name to the end of it too and I'll dissect it. Its been sent. As for race, I play all three but have only tested these hotkeys on protoss. Thanks for the dedication
You're very welcome, and good news, the Protoss version you sent checks out fine at first glance. You must be trying to use G and B within the default Fleet Keys file. You'll have to go into the hotkey menu and change them accordingly if you're looking to bind the last 2 Camera Locations to G and B.
Edit: That was not the problem.
Does anyone have trouble making selections when things are bound to S? Is the action Alt+S not working for anyone? If so please let me know! BaRR has been having issues with selecting his Alt+S group, despite trying to change it from Camera Location to a Control Group and searching the SC2HOTKEYS file in notepad for conflicts. So far, he is the only one with this issue, but to be safe, could other people check to see if their Alt+S is working?
He can assign bindings in the hotkey menu, and they register as Alt+S, but in-game that command just will not recall what its bound to.
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I tried it in 8 matches last night (ranked ofcourse), and the problem is that it is a really good idea, but it feels ergonomically horrible in that it forces you to use the QW, AS, ZX buttons so much, and almost none of the most reachable buttons such as RT< FG< VB and those in that area.
I know how to type really fast on the keyboard, and you know that on the F button, there is this mark on it, and that is the tail(for balance) in my awareness of the keyboard. But I feel forced to leave that mark because of the area so important in this Fleet setup. How can this be better over time? My point finger, and the middle finger are really dominant in my play, but this Fleet setup, forces me to either leave the F marked button (which is really important), or use the two fingers I have the least control and stamina over (littlefinger, and the ringfinger).
Its a shame, because I really liked how I could control group my buildings and camera. I have such a good awareness of the keyboard, that Mothership is really accessable for me by using M as hotkey.
My ideas on how it could be improven for me, is to make Spacebar the Alt button, because it makes your fingers rest more naturally since you dont have to leave your fingers crossed so much, while still maintaining a good F marked position on the keyboard. But the problem remains with selecting workers, then using the hotkeys Z, X for building selection. These are the worst buttons on the keyboard actually. I guess I could just move them back manually to B and V. I think it will be great with some personal tweaks. I am greatly inspired in taking a good look at my hotkeys though, as I just used standard
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I played like 10 games with that layout, i am still kinda slow with it, but it only gets better.
As a protoss player i'm having an issue with the camera locations; lets say cam location 1 is on the mainbase, cam location 2 is on your first expansion. As soon as the expansion finishes, i'd transfer my workers asap.
So i would hit alt + A to go to my mainbase, select a few workers, press alt + S to go to my expansion and right click on a mineral patch. But that doesn't work, because all warpgates are on the alt key aswell, means everytime you switch to a certain cam location, you automatically have the warpgates selected, which isn't always what you want imho.
Again, this is just a small issue i'm having, i absolutely love this layout, thank you!
On March 26 2013 18:58 crappen wrote:
My ideas on how it could be improven for me, is to make Spacebar the Alt button, because it makes your fingers rest more naturally since you dont have to leave your fingers crossed so much, while still maintaining a good F marked position on the keyboard.
Good Idea, i'll try that out later.
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On March 26 2013 18:58 crappen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I tried it in 8 matches last night (ranked ofcourse), and the problem is that it is a really good idea, but it feels ergonomically horrible in that it forces you to use the QW, AS, ZX buttons so much, and almost none of the most reachable buttons such as RT< FG< VB and those in that area. I know how to type really fast on the keyboard, and you know that on the F button, there is this mark on it, and that is the tail(for balance) in my awareness of the keyboard. But I feel forced to leave that mark because of the area so important in this Fleet setup. How can this be better over time? My point finger, and the middle finger are really dominant in my play, but this Fleet setup, forces me to either leave the F marked button (which is really important), or use the two fingers I have the least control and stamina over (littlefinger, and the ringfinger). Its a shame, because I really liked how I could control group my buildings and camera. I have such a good awareness of the keyboard, that Mothership is really accessable for me by using M as hotkey. My ideas on how it could be improven for me, is to make Spacebar the Alt button, because it makes your fingers rest more naturally since you dont have to leave your fingers crossed so much, while still maintaining a good F marked position on the keyboard. But the problem remains with selecting workers, then using the hotkeys Z, X for building selection. These are the worst buttons on the keyboard actually. I guess I could just move them back manually to B and V. I think it will be great with some personal tweaks. I am greatly inspired in taking a good look at my hotkeys though, as I just used standard
I hear your concern, especially about T,G,B, it feels a bit uncomfortable reaching that far over. The problem that I'm finding with the modifier keys is that there is very little choice. Shift is harcoded to perform Shift commands regardless of what Shift is mapped to, Ctrl is so far out of the way that it's almost useless for constant pressing, and Alt is the only one left to work with.
I tried in the past to change the keys like you suggested. In fact, I had Shift bound to Alt through a registry change (which is not tournament legal), but it felt much better. Using Alt is the whole reason why I'm able to condense this layout as much as it is. Changing Alt to Space Bar would be a pretty good alternative, but Space Bar is not a modifier key, and will not act like one. Space Bar + Q,W,E,A,S,D don't work unless you re-bind your keys with a registry hack, placing Ctrl, Shift, or Alt or Space Bar. I would be happy if Blizzard allowed some flexibility with their modifiers, as they limit layouts that try to use them by always being jammed arbitrarily into the bottom corners of the keyboard without the ablility to legally change them.
Until I redesign this layout on top of Standard to allow for T to be re-positioned comfortably, you have two options if you decide to stick with the layout. You can get a keyboard with a function key, which pushes Alt further to the right, and makes for a more comfortable experience (I know it's a hardware solution, and it isn't encouraged as *the* solution), or you can go into the current hotkeys file, and change T to something like A, and be mindful of it while playing, as it will change A's position in Grid. I don't think this will be as much of an issue when it's remapped over Standard, but only time will tell. Thanks for checking it out, I hope I helped out in some way.
On March 26 2013 22:02 syno wrote:I played like 10 games with that layout, i am still kinda slow with it, but it only gets better. As a protoss player i'm having an issue with the camera locations; lets say cam location 1 is on the mainbase, cam location 2 is on your first expansion. As soon as the expansion finishes, i'd transfer my workers asap. So i would hit alt + A to go to my mainbase, select a few workers, press alt + S to go to my expansion and right click on a mineral patch. But that doesn't work, because all warpgates are on the alt key aswell, means everytime you switch to a certain cam location, you automatically have the warpgates selected, which isn't always what you want imho. Again, this is just a small issue i'm having, i absolutely love this layout, thank you! Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 18:58 crappen wrote:
My ideas on how it could be improven for me, is to make Spacebar the Alt button, because it makes your fingers rest more naturally since you dont have to leave your fingers crossed so much, while still maintaining a good F marked position on the keyboard. Good Idea, i'll try that out later.
Hi syno, I heard a similar concern from another person who was asking asking about retreating with workers in the event of your base being overrun. This isn't some sort of amazing fix, but when you need to transfer workers, provided that your Nexus/whatever is completed, you can press the Next Base key (Caps Lock in the default FK layout), to jump to your base, have it centered, and then right-Click on a mineral patch. It's a smooth action, but it's not immediately intuitive. I am starting to realize that as much as Next base is useful, Previous Base would be a natural addition. A key like that would be so beneficial, yet it's not implemented, and that really sucks.
I've been thinking about moving Warp-in to F, as Kaitlin suggested. F seems to be for the most part an unused key for Grid, and only cuts down your Camera Locations by 1 by taking out F. Although in Legacy of the Void, F may become a used key by a new unit, which is the only thing really bothering me regarding that change, but it may be worth it. I don't want Fleet Keys bending around expansions, patches, and metagames, so a Standard-based overhaul constructed in Fleet Keys' image may be the only way to add any amount of flexibility to the layout.
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On March 26 2013 05:34 Zamiel wrote:
Question 1:
One biggest criticisms of TheCore is that JaKaTaK is only in the Platinum league and thus is not able to fully comprehend the game at a high level. (Which may or may not be true, depending one's perspective.) What league are you in with each of the three races, respectively?
Question 2:
One of the biggest innovations of TheCore is, for right-handed people, to move the left hand to the right side of the keyboard. This allows the modifier keys to be pressed with the thumb instead of the pinky. Since the modifier keys are the most frequently pressed keys, it should be intuitive that this will allow for faster APM, less hand contortion, less hand strain, and so forth. In your hotkey layout, you have deliberately forgone this optimization in favor of not alienating people transitioning from the grid layout. Have you ever actually given yourself time to adjust to a hotkey setup in which the thumb is used for modifier keys? If so, can you go into the concrete reasons as to why you didn't feel it necessary to include in your setup? This is a huge omission and I see it as (currently) the biggest flaw with your setup.
Answer 1:
This is an exciting question, because I can say 2 things here that I always get mixed reactions about. I could say "My account has been sitting in a stagnant, lowly Silver ranking since early last year." Or, I could say that I don't spend time playing competitively on the Ladder. Both are true, so quantify my credibility, knowledge and comprehension according to that. I would say JaK and I have more in common in that sense, as we receive similar criticisms (under high masters=disregard). That's fine. I wouldn't size up the guy's level of comprehension of the game based on his league though. As for my current league position, I won't make excuses, I simply do not invest time competing on the ladders. But you know, I'm totally ok with that, as Starcraft has (since pre-BW) held a comfortable spot in my life as it is now. It serves as a favorite past-time as well as (for a few years now) my favorite spectator sport. If others aren't ok with it, then I am sorry for you or anyone else that feels that way. Fleet Keys is not a job, nor a business of any sort, rather, a highly rewarding labour of love, and an opportunity for involvement in something I really enjoy. Developing it has been a lot of fun! I hope that answers your first question.
Answer 2:
You're doing it wrong, because thumb on modifiers is right is an oppressive notion that I simply do not agree with. It's not a quote, but it's what I gathered from your second question.
I think increased ergonomic design is a huge plus for people with joint problems, and those who fear developing them. Whether their concern is reasonable, or just over-compromising and paranoid is nobody's business to say. If you honestly believe in what you're saying then go the extra mile, and purchase one of these instead of forcing yourself to use a conventional keyboard, and convince everyone it's the right way to do things since it screams proper ergonomics. This device epitomizes your philosophy on unorthodox keyboard usage for the sake of ergonomics, and then some. If it piqued your interest, then take a shot over here where they show you all about it. I think it's one of the coolest PC devices I've seen as of late, and no, I'm not being condescending, I actually think it's cool.
Telling me that I essentially forwent the proper way to use a keyboard tells me that we're not going to agree here. For what it's worth, I did try to keep an open mind before deciding to venture into my own layout. I think most people do actually. Fleet Keys for me is a happy medium where I found the most comfort, and I am excited to continue refining it. If other people find it useful as well-- some have and some haven't, then great, at least people are trying to be proactive to find what works for them. You're going to have to accept that the word optimization is completely subjective when you're talking to people on the topic of and preference and what is good for them.
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Some may have noticed that new line of text under the thread banner, and I'd like to let you all know what exactly this "Alloy" thing is.
Fleet Keys as is, despite many people enjoying it, has a few things about it that are currently deal breakers for people who want even more familiarity, customization, and don't want to work within the confines of a Grid-Based system. I can't I say blame them, as T on attack is something that some may be fine with, and other not so much. I'd like to give players even more choice in how Fleet Keys is set up.
So the main concept behind this new Fleet keys system is: - Take the Standard layout, and map Fleet keys over that, keeping the Control Groups and Camera Location arrangement intact.
- Keep it simple, following the example of the current Fleet Keys system.
- Give players the option of where there Unit Commands (stop/move/attack) go, instead of keeping it mapped to the Command Cards. With the default Fleet Keys Alloy settings (now referring to it as "FKAlloy"), it will look something like: Q = Move
W = Hold Position
E = Attack.
Although there is solid reasoning for the current plans for FKAlloy's default bindings, be happy in knowing that players will be able to fully customize this part of the layout where they could not (without throwing off the Grid) in the current version Fleet Keys. This is a huge step for anyone who is used to another layout, and especially for those who enjoy Fleet Keys but has issues with unit controls and other little things.
- Try keeping FKAlloy the same across the three races. This, in my opinion, will be the biggest challenge, and it may still result in how Fleet Keys is now; how it's mostly the same, with 1 or 2 swapped keys to play off the asymmetrical designs of each race.
Thanks for the feedback everyone, I will release the first working version of it within the next day or so. I'm pretty excited to release this, as it rounds out Fleet Keys as a hotkey system quite well.
Thanks for the support, and be sure to check back for updates!
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Does anyone use the hotkey for 'Move' ? If not, there's no need to have it bound to anything, let alone a decently well-placed key that could be used for something else that is used. I have my Move command bound to something like Num Pad 8, just so it doesn't show as unbound, even though I'll never, ever, activate it.
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my hotkey setup is very similar to this except that:
-I use Patrol on Q, hold position on W, and attack on E.
-My unit's abilities are on A ,S ,D ,F , and G.
-My hand stays on the keyboard like I'm playing an FPS (Shift, A, W, D, spc bar).
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On March 28 2013 03:39 Kaitlin wrote:
Does anyone use the hotkey for 'Move' ? If not, there's no need to have it bound to anything, let alone a decently well-placed key that could be used for something else that is used. I have my Move command bound to something like Num Pad 8, just so it doesn't show as unbound, even though I'll never, ever, activate it.
I think Patrol on Q would be pretty sick. Q on Patrol, Hold pos. on W, and Attack on E.
The E on attack thing might sound strange, but here's the idea behind it, it's pretty fluid, and quick to execute. Say you want to 1a,2a,3a, you would press 1e,2e,3e, like so:
Ring finger: 1, Index: E
Middle finger: 2, Index E
Middle finger: 3, Index E
As far as Alloy's new unit controls go, I'm going to try A,S,D,F bound as the alternate keys of Z,X,C,V (these cover spells/build commands) to make the unit controls as compact, accessible, and familiar as possible. This keeps everything organized, in line with Grid, and keeps your fingers within the 1-3,Q-E,and A-D 3x3 block that harbors a lot of Fleet Keys' current functions. This may not work with well the SCV's repair ability, but they still repair when right-clicked on a damaged structure. This isn't a huge concern, but it will need to be addressed.
The best part of Grid that people seem to like, is building construction, unit production, researches and spells. Grid allows you to essentially not worry about any of it, and have your unit controls the way you want. Flexible unit control is a hard thing to smoothly implement in the current Fleet Keys config, and Alloy answers that.
As new expansions are released and new units are added, this should stand the test of time by having production additions being added to the command card, and never exceeding the Command Card design Blizzard decided to stick with (the 3x5 block).
How does that sound to everyone? Don't hold back with input, I want this to be more accessible for people who want more than just proper Grid.
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On March 28 2013 04:31 rpgalon wrote:
my hotkey setup is very similar to this except that:
-I use Patrol on Q, hold position on W, and attack on E.
-My unit's abilities are on A ,S ,D ,F , and G.
-My hand stays on the keyboard like I'm playing an FPS (Shift, A, W, D, spc bar).
I JUST read that. Ok well it's great we agree about that! hahaha.. It does feel good though, as far as default settings are concerned. Feeling better about this already.
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Which profile should I use when playing random?
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On March 28 2013 19:02 Sriver wrote:
Which profile should I use when playing random?
Hey Sriver, Download all 3 hotkey files, and switch to them based on what you spawn as. There's more than enough time to switch at the start of a match after queuing up your first worker. Make sure to go in with at least one if them set though, or else creating your first worker might be awkward (it will be tied to another layout, and you most likely won't be able to press Q at the start to queue the first worker up. That's about it!
Get em all.
Switch to one.
Switch to the one you are spawned as each game.
Edit: I should also note that the Protoss and Terran layouts are almost identical, whereas the Zerg one has a couple swapped keys.
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I definitely think I can do this one! I use grid (and spacebar to attack) normally but have been wanting a more comprehensive hotkey layout and the core is just too confusing.
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On March 29 2013 01:38 TheDougler wrote:
I definitely think I can do this one! I use grid (and spacebar to attack) normally but have been wanting a more comprehensive hotkey layout and the core is just too confusing.
Fleet Keys (right now) is pretty simple, but with Zerg and Protoss, one word of caution. It's imperative to hotkey your army units, as the Alt bindings for both layouts in their current configuration (which are optional of course), feature Warp-in key and Queens on Alt, in addition to it being a modifier key. This is a blessing to some and a curse to others. The issue players had with it was if you didn't hotkey your units diligently, they'll be deselected when using the Alt modifier key. Personally, I'm used to this, and I find it effective, but that doesn't mean everyone agrees. Thanks for checking out this layout. I'm currently working on "Alloy", an alternate Fleet Keys system that is looking pretty cool. It's a little different than the current Fleet Keys layout, but is far better in my opinion for the average player looking for a new non-Grid-based layout with flexibility. Alloy is Standard-based, and borrows many concepts from the current Fleet Keys system. I'll have the Download File ready for it by the end of the day.
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I have the first draft of the Alloy project ready to try out if anyone's up to it. I ran through the test quickly and it looks great. I could be missing some things or overlooking other issues, so don't hold back with the feedback! If you're up for testing them out, I have the files attached for you in the thread, and in this post. I don't have Master Sheets for them yet, as I'm sure many bindings are subject to change. The thread layout will receive a significant overhaul after Alloy's launch-- very excited about it!
The Protoss and Terran layout are still a bit different from Zerg because of Injects. T and P are basically the same so that's good, but with massive improvements. The big changes to note are:
The Alt & Warp in and Alt & Inject Queen Bindings Removed:
These were taken off due to deselection issues. With both the Queen and Warp-in key being bound to Alt, you couldn't access your Camera Locations without deselecting your current selection and this was a deal breaker for many (it has its advantages, especially when you keep reinforcements on a hotkey). Inject Queens are moved to Caps Lock (Injects on S and X as alternate for people who are used to the current Fleet Keys' and Grid's Injection bindings/method. This is nice, because players now have their major macro keys right next to each other and are extremely accessible. Without deselection from Alt, players can now maynard workers easier for any purpose, be it economically, offensively, or defensively.
Q,W,E Unit Controls:
Due to player's concerns about T (attack) being so far out of the way and hard to reach, I found a way around Grid's way of laying out Unit Commands. Alloy, the new edition of Fleet Keys, is built on Standard, so with that, I was able to make these hugely benificial adjustments. For Unit Controls, Stop and Move have been cut out because you can move with Right Clicks, and you can Stop to better effect with Hold Position. The Move command may find its way back, to prevent/reduce unit clumping, a big issue for Zergsin general as well as bio players, and air compositions across each race. The new (likey temporary) Unit Control bindings are:
Q: Patrol
W: Hold Position
E: Attack
R: Move
T: Burrow (Zerg)
The Further Refined Grid:
Grid for the most part functions the exact same when you're selecting upgrade/tech buildings and doing general production, so that hasn't changed. The big change is the fact that there is more emphasis on Q-R, and A-D. What this is, is Grid, but chopped in half. It's absolutely insane. Gone is the vast majority of dead space that separates commands in the Command Cards, and brings things closer together. You'll notice that A,S,D are used for spells instead of Z,X,C, and things bound to Z are reserved for the most deliberate and unused actions. There were some refinements that work on a race-by-race basis, such as Warpgate reasearch, and Gateway transformation which are left bound to Z, but use Space Bar as an alternative, so when you would normally be forced into using the bottom row, you can usually skip it with the next big refinement, the Smart Key, Space Bar.
The Smart Key - Space Bar (Applies to T and P only):
Please note that these are WoL units, HotS units can easily follow this pattern. Some manual mapping may be required for HotS units (a good opportunity to see the new uniform pattern of bindings). I have Space Bar mapped as an alternate key for each spellcaster and building with (non-intrusive such as Lift/CC Loading) abilities, so the best spell/ability in many situations will be usable with the Space Bar if you decide to perform abilities and spells. It essentially acts as a "Smart-Key", but only T and P benefit from this, as Zerg uses Space Bar for Injects (a more than fair trade-off, as Backspace Inject is faaast). Zerg spells/abilities are on A,S,D anyway so they remain insanely accessible like all the others. The original Fleet Keys did this to a minor degree, but Alloy really pushes its potential. It narrows the gap between layouts that have the most used things together, as every useful/first choice ability is tied to Space Bar (as a completely customizable set of alternate bindings of course  ). It keeps the two versions of Fleet Keys familiar for the most part, while adding a ton extra reach to the layout's potential for players who become accustomed to Alloy; you can even assign your own commands to Space Bar if you don't agree with the default bindings! Here are only a few examples in the looooonng list of Smart Key bindings that come with the default setting. When in doubt, slap your thumb on the biggest key on the keyboard, Space Bar!:
Terran:
SCV's: Build Basic on A, alternatively on Space Bar.
Orbital Commands: MULES on W, alternatively on Space Bar.
Marines/Marauders: Stim on A, alternatively on Space Bar.
Ravens: Hunter Seeker Missile on D, alternatively on Space Bar.
Siege Tank: Siege Mode: Siege on A, alternatively on Space Bar (unsiege on S).
Protoss:
Probes: Build Basic on A, alternatively on Space Bar.
Nexus: Chrono on W, alternatively on Space Bar.
Stalkers: Blink on A, alternatively on Space Bar.
High Templars: Psi Storm on S, alternatively on Space Bar.
Phoenix: Graviton Beam on A, alternatively on Space Bar.
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I'm a complete novice at mp starcraft, so maybe I'm missing something and somehow nobody clicks on the minimap to move the camera. But if you do, you have to rebind the keys under unit management. It took me an inordinate amount of time to figure this out.
There are two minimap options; by default they are set to left click(normal) and right click(targeting). I'm not sure why they are undefined in fleet keys, unless it conflicts with something.
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On March 30 2013 05:17 tfs1 wrote:I'm a complete novice at mp starcraft, so maybe I'm missing something and somehow nobody clicks on the minimap to move the camera. But if you do, you have to rebind the keys under unit management. It took me an inordinate amount of time to figure this out. There are two minimap options; by default they are set to left click(normal) and right click(targeting). I'm not sure why they are undefined in fleet keys, unless it conflicts with something.
During testing last night I ran into this early on and fixed it, but I must have just crashed for the night and forgot update the changes. Edit: No, I uploaded the updated Zerg, but not the T&P one. It's fixed now.
Thanks so much for pointing it out! I fixed up the Middle Mouse Button bindings as well, making them the same across the three races. Hold MMB to Drag Cam, Alt+MMB to Center on Selection, Shift+MMB to select all Warp Gates.
If there are any more issues, post them here and I'll respond ASAP.
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The first change I made to the default hotkey setup was to remove ambiguity for abilities that toggle or will be used in sequence. In my opinion this is a huge flaw in the idea of a "smart key" using spacebar.
I would suggest that abilities like raise/lower supply depot, lift/land structures, siege/unsiege, cloak/uncloak units, burrow/unburrow, or any other toggle have one key to activate, and a different key to deactivate. Depending on your preference, space bar to activate can remain. But a different key should perform the reverse action.
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just to add to what I said here:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 28 2013 04:31 rpgalon wrote:
my hotkey setup is very similar to this except that:
-I use Patrol on Q, hold position on W, and attack on E.
-My unit's abilities are on A ,S ,D ,F , and G.
-My hand stays on the keyboard like I'm playing an FPS (Shift, A, W, D, spc bar).
-I use space bar as a "cancel whatever my unit is doing" key
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 30 2013 07:59 ledarsi wrote:
The first change I made to the default hotkey setup was to remove ambiguity for abilities that toggle or will be used in sequence. In my opinion this is a huge flaw in the idea of a "smart key" using spacebar.
I would suggest that abilities like raise/lower supply depot, lift/land structures, siege/unsiege, cloak/uncloak units, burrow/unburrow, or any other toggle have one key to activate, and a different key to deactivate. Depending on your preference, space bar to activate can remain. But a different key should perform the reverse action.
I'm not sure if you've downloaded the most recent files, but I think I solved most of what you suggested as of today. I could be wrong, though, I'll check it out. I'd suggest checking the files currently up for download, they might have fixed your issues.
None of the Zerg abilities (I guess that would only be Burrow and Baneling Structure Attack) are ever bound to Smart Keys. I don't believe I have Cloak/Uncloak bound to Space Bar at the moment, as we feel the same about the sequential arrangements for toggles. I'll review the bindings to make sure there aren't any miss-bindings.
As for lifting structures, I never would suggest binding them to Space Bar, either lifting or landing. This is ok for spells, because if you accidentally hit Space Bar, you'll be prompted with a targeting interface, in which case you can Right-Click, or cancel the command before wasting energy. However, if you accidentally issue a lift via Space Bar, it simply executes--very bad.
It's definitely going to need more refinement, but the overall idea is for players to be able to close the gap for things that are normally mapped to the bottom row of keys, as well as other frequently used commands. I realize what I decide to include as default bindings will work for some, while others not as much, but it's a feature that's totally customizable. A good example of this is whether or not a certain Terran likes to use HSM or PDD more, so Space Bar would hold their favorite (HSM is default). Same with Protoss players with High Templars or Sentries and the player's preferred spells, with Force Field and Psi Storm on default.
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On March 30 2013 08:08 rpgalon wrote:just to add to what I said here: + Show Spoiler +On March 28 2013 04:31 rpgalon wrote:
my hotkey setup is very similar to this except that:
-I use Patrol on Q, hold position on W, and attack on E.
-My unit's abilities are on A ,S ,D ,F , and G.
-My hand stays on the keyboard like I'm playing an FPS (Shift, A, W, D, spc bar). -I use space bar as a "cancel whatever my unit is doing" key
Hey rpgalon nice to see you're back! If I was using something such as Layered Injects or Tapping Inject methods, I would totally use Space Bar as a cancel/deselect key. It's really is a good idea! Since the Zerg layout uses Backspace method, they rely quite heavily upon Space Bar. If a Random or T/P player decided to use Alloy, they would expect some utility with Space Bar just as Zergs do. Since the other races tend to rely on spells/abilities more than Zerg (usually up until late game), the Smart-Key concept really supports T and P as a complimentary feature.
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Alloy Protoss (1hr old on Dropbox as of this post time) appears to be missing the following:
Void Ray: Prismatic Alignment
Oracle: Revelation
Mothership+MSC: Mass Recall
Stargate: Build Carrier
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Good news, Alloy is pretty f**king astounding, I am very impressed with it.
Here's the heart-wrenching part: I have to wait for about a week/a week and a half until I'm able to bind the HotS keys myself. It's been a horrrrible wait, believe me! At the moment, I'm working on new layout images for the thread and sorting all that out. I will need to go over the HotS bindings when I actually get my hands on a product key. If anyone would like to go over the bindings with me through Skype or email (eneyeseekay999@gmail.com), we could do it that way. Either way, the bindings are delaying this far longer than they should, and for that, I sincerely apologize to anyone waiting. Again, I am willing to do this through Skype or email---just say the word! Now, for my plans with the thread and Fleet Keys in general. Are you pumped or what???...Ok!
The current grid-based version will undergo one significant change before the update. Having Alt double-bound (to Queens and Warp-in Key) is being changed in the future download file, this has been a real love/hate feature for players, and the one feature I received the most feedback about. Having said that, I will keep it an option, and document it as a potential feature (listed under a "Manual Optimizations" list or something), but not keep it as part of the default configuration. Once the hotkey files for the current Fleet Keys and Alloy are completed, and the thread images are completed as well, I'll begin rolling out the two versions as separate Fleet Keys hotkey systems!
The current version of Fleet Keys this thread features will be going by the new name(s):
Fleet Keys Element, FK Element, and Element for short.
Alloy will keep the Alloy name, appearing as:
Fleet Keys Alloy, FK Alloy and Alloy for short.
I will often refer to them as Element and Alloy, as it's just quicker to type, and they are distinct.
I assure you that featuring the two systems will make sense aesthetically and appear simple for navigation. The information featured will be heavily condensed for easier readability (yaay, less walls of Nick's text like this post!). I think the Fleet Keys thread is looking pretty good, but not as good as it will be in the coming months! There's lots to look forward to!
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Nice to see you change up T=attack and other abilties with the advice I gave about being able to change hotkeys outside of StarCraft for individual abilities while using Grid (or it seems not that you have moved to standard, if you have any trouble with anything like that send me a pm. Haven't had time to check both setups completely but have you changed Space for Loading CC's to something else in each setup? Really nice work and will continue to keep a keen eye on the project.
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On April 02 2013 08:07 Rockafella wrote:
Nice to see you change up T=attack and other abilties with the advice I gave about being able to change hotkeys outside of StarCraft for individual abilities while using Grid (or it seems not that you have moved to standard, if you have any trouble with anything like that send me a pm. Haven't had time to check both setups completely but have you changed Space for Loading CC's to something else in each setup? Really nice work and will continue to keep a keen eye on the project.
I came to the realization that T was not very easy to reach for most people. I was used to it and accustomed to it, but only because I had forced myself into that without question. The Move command had to be left in the unit controls to allow players to move about without clumping, but Q,W,E as the main Unit control commands feels amazing! E is so central to the CG's, it just really clicks with the rest of the layout.
As for that loading issue, that shouldn't be a problem anymore, at least not in Alloy. Element will be primarily for the current Grid users who just want to optimize and build upon Grid, and people looking to learn a simple Grid layout. Alloy is for players who come from Standard layouts, but are also interested in Grid. Alloy will be the layout most players will probably use though, and is definitely the most advanced of the two. Even hardcore Grid users can pick up Alloy easily, as they are closely related, but different enough to warrant the two versions of Fleet Keys being separated in the two versions.
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I'm finding it extremely awkward to use alt+qwer and tab for production buildings. It just feels wrong to have to use two keys to cycle through my production buildings. If you could bind alt+tab as an alternate for your nexus it wouldn't be that bad but going tab-> alt+q (hope you release alt quick enough), (produce),alt+w (produce) alt+e (produce) just feels too slow for me. Maybe I'm not practiced enough with it or something, but for personally i think tab 456 for production, maybe alt+r for upgrades, and 123 alt qwe for army feels much more natural.
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On April 02 2013 14:07 LazinCajun wrote:
I'm finding it extremely awkward to use alt+qwer and tab for production buildings. It just feels wrong to have to use two keys to cycle through my production buildings. If you could bind alt+tab as an alternate for your nexus it wouldn't be that bad but going tab-> alt+q (hope you release alt quick enough), (produce),alt+w (produce) alt+e (produce) just feels too slow for me. Maybe I'm not practiced enough with it or something, but for personally i think tab 456 for production, maybe alt+r for upgrades, and 123 alt qwe for army feels much more natural.
I does require an extra keystroke but it prevents you from having to bounce from 5-8, 4-7 and 4-6 all the way down to the typical production bindings. I totally get where you're coming from though. You can use the 4-6/etc method, and bump the Camera Locations up a row to use Alt+Q,W,E,R and A,S,D,F for all 8 cams and that could work fine.
The main reason I have the production bound to Q/W/E/R is because of not only the key proximity it allows you to keep, but it lets you monitor your production at really fast speeds (The fastest I've seen anyway). The keys are lined up in a way that allows you to swiftly drop/hold your thumb on Alt and then drop your ring, then middle, then index finger on Q,W,E respectively. This will give you an instant read on everything going on. Q/W/E also is dual-purpose because in Alloy, you have your 3 main unit commands on Q/W/E so you'll be very familiar with the keys after a while, and will help out when training units. It's definitely built more towards monitoring, but if you can monitor efficiently, you can avoid queuing up units, which is a huuuuuge deal if you can manage to reduce/eliminate it from your play. If you can queue less, you can also manage more production facilities without dumping resources into queued units which is an amazing mid and late-game skill. This works well for Protoss and Terran, but for Zerg it serves the purpose of quickly monitoring Injects and Hatch-related research/production/morphing.
Nothing's set in stone though, so use whatever works for you, don't be afraid to modify the layouts for you as they are simply starting points! Thanks for trying it out and pitching in feedback!
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On April 02 2013 14:44 eneyeseekay wrote:
Nothing's set in stone though, so use whatever works for you, don't be afraid to modify the layouts for you as they are simply starting points! Thanks for trying it out and pitching in feedback!
I don't think I communicated very well in my last post. I really, really like the hotkey setup! Having camera keys readily available is especially handy. Thanks for sharing it and goign through the effort to present it so cleanly.
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On April 02 2013 15:20 LazinCajun wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 14:44 eneyeseekay wrote:
Nothing's set in stone though, so use whatever works for you, don't be afraid to modify the layouts for you as they are simply starting points! Thanks for trying it out and pitching in feedback! I don't think I communicated very well in my last post. I really, really like the hotkey setup! Having camera keys readily available is especially handy. Thanks for sharing it and goign through the effort to present it so cleanly.
Hey you're welcome, thank you for even considering using it. I'm really glad you appreciate the aesthetics of the thread as well. The next overhaul will be even better and much cleaner (more elegant, better design, and proper logos for the layouts) so there's a lot of excitement for that. But yeah, I understood what you said just fine in your post, I just wanted to explain the ins and outs of the Q/W/E/R choice, for you as well as others who may be concerned. I have heard of a couple people wondering about it much like yourself, so I figured I would clear it up and perhaps shed some light on the reasoning behind it.
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Hi Guys..
I have developed my own Setup for 1 ywae ago....
I just explain it in short words:
I use a ESDF instead WASD Grid.....With Grid I meant customized standard Hotkeys as Grid Layout. The advantage is, that you will have the Buttons Q A and Y free for (in my example) ControlGroups from 8-0.
Main Building 5
Warpgate 4
Robo 6
Starport 7
Army is 1-2-3-8-9-0 AND/OR BGHQAY
The Buttons 0 is the same as Space for my main army
G is the same as 2
H is the same as 1
Y is Mothershipcore..
ControlGroup 1 and Q have changed their position...
So i have all Grid Options like buildings etc like a normal Grid....
But in a fight I can...VERY Fast Forcefield Timewarp and storm and main etc all i nee at my fingertips in short distances.
example....the Cast lay on WSDFXCV
ForceField = ForeFinger G and Ringfinger on S or X for
Storm= Ringfinger on Q and Middlefinger on W for storm (for phönix the same with lift up)
Timewarp= Pinky on Y for Mothershipcore and ringfinger on S for Timewarp
Stalker= Stalker Pinky on A and blink on S
Attack is F
Capslock is a second STRG
Win is Alt Button....and alt is Backspace
For this setup is a US Keyboard prefered, because of the Big Shift button, so you can reach easily 7 with the forefinger and CTRL with the Pinky
Camera....F1-F8 also modified....
F2 and F3 are on my Mouswheel to setup natural and the enemy location...
1 is the same as F5 ( for Day9 Shift+F2) which
F4 is my 3rd..
F5 is for other location.
if i use my wheel for camera F2 F3, i can with holding CTRL and Mousewheel setup the cam locations
and if i push Alt (whcih is the left window key) with Mousewheel, then I have Idle worker or Army...
Its a little bit confusing, because its not so transparent like the picture and explaining above, but i will hope you understand, what i meant with my broken english...^^
For Question (or incase of mass intressting people) i will expalin it in detail, load up profile or try to made pictures like the Guy above...
For special Things like you have Phönix HT and Void, there are little changes in setup, but then you have other buttons free for that handling.....
KK, i hope someone will try out my hotkey setup, because, an ESDF Grid is always BETTER tahn WASD, because you have EXACT the same settings, no changes by feeling ingame, BUT you have 3 more Buttons and with Control/Shift/Alt you have definitive the better choice..
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there are some real whacky hotkey threads going round these days. the theory to this set-up is so well thought out. unfortunately my brain is hard wired to standard brood war/warcraft III/sc2 keys. If I attempt to use something like core/fleet keys my brain would fall apart like a piece of wet cake.
edit: saw other people posting their custom stuff. here's my terran stuff
` command centers
1 army (bio, bio/mine or pure mine if I'm meching)
2 army (tanks or ghosts; bunker in early game)
3 army (medivacs; depot in early game)
Q harass/support/scout #1 (ghosts vZ, banshees, dropship, etc)
W harass/support/scout #2 (usually dropship #2 or viking/raven)
throughout the game I reassign my bio/dropships to 1, 2, Q and W relative to where they are on the mini-map. say you're playing on a vertical map like Bel'shir Vestige, the bio attacking east will be hotkey'd on 1, bio attacking west will be 2, east drop on Q, west drop on W, etc. later on I split my ghosts on 2, Q and W. 2 for most of them, Q and W for snipe squads, or maybe a medivac for dropping ghosts on his templars (or dropping on infestors vZ). by this point it's better to just use the mini-map to juggle drops; you need the hotkeys to babysit your casters.
4 raxx/fact/ports (this becomes support/harass #3 if I'm playing mech)
5 facts only (this becomes harass/drop #3 if I'm playing vP)
6 ports only
7 tech structures
F1, F2, F3, F4, F5 bases
F6 xel naga tower
caps lock rally point #1
space bar rally point #2
shift + F1-F6, caps, or space bar to assign location
E hellions, tanks, mines, vikings and thors transform to special state (seige mode, hellbat, burrow, etc)
R hellions, tanks, mines, vikings and thors return to original mode
E, R, T spells raven/ghost
C cloak for banshee/ghost
X uncloak for banshee/ghost
T lift/land buildings
H hold units for bunker, planetary and medivacs
R unload units
D hold position
F patrol
Y assign rally point
alt idle workers
F7, F8 , 8, 9 , 0, U, J, N, Z, \ keys removed to reduce misclicks/improve muscle memory.
no base camera or "jump to alert" stuff.
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On April 02 2013 22:50 SHODAN wrote:
there are some real whacky hotkey threads going round these days. the theory to this set-up is so well thought out. unfortunately my brain is hard wired to standard brood war/warcraft III/sc2 keys. If I attempt to use something like core/fleet keys my brain would fall apart like a piece of wet cake.
Your brain isn't hard wired! You can learn something new if you try hard enough. The learning process is no fun though
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 02 2013 22:14 Luminex wrote:
Hi Guys..
I have developed my own Setup for 1 ywae ago....
I just explain it in short words:
I use a ESDF instead WASD Grid.....With Grid I meant customized standard Hotkeys as Grid Layout. The advantage is, that you will have the Buttons Q A and Y free for (in my example) ControlGroups from 8-0.
Main Building 5
Warpgate 4
Robo 6
Starport 7
Army is 1-2-3-8-9-0 AND/OR BGHQAY
The Buttons 0 is the same as Space for my main army
G is the same as 2
H is the same as 1
Y is Mothershipcore..
ControlGroup 1 and Q have changed their position...
So i have all Grid Options like buildings etc like a normal Grid....
But in a fight I can...VERY Fast Forcefield Timewarp and storm and main etc all i nee at my fingertips in short distances.
example....the Cast lay on WSDFXCV
ForceField = ForeFinger G and Ringfinger on S or X for
Storm= Ringfinger on Q and Middlefinger on W for storm (for phönix the same with lift up)
Timewarp= Pinky on Y for Mothershipcore and ringfinger on S for Timewarp
Stalker= Stalker Pinky on A and blink on S
Attack is F
Capslock is a second STRG
Win is Alt Button....and alt is Backspace
For this setup is a US Keyboard prefered, because of the Big Shift button, so you can reach easily 7 with the forefinger and CTRL with the Pinky
Camera....F1-F8 also modified....
F2 and F3 are on my Mouswheel to setup natural and the enemy location...
1 is the same as F5 ( for Day9 Shift+F2) which
F4 is my 3rd..
F5 is for other location.
if i use my wheel for camera F2 F3, i can with holding CTRL and Mousewheel setup the cam locations
and if i push Alt (whcih is the left window key) with Mousewheel, then I have Idle worker or Army...
Its a little bit confusing, because its not so transparent like the picture and explaining above, but i will hope you understand, what i meant with my broken english...^^
For Question (or incase of mass intressting people) i will expalin it in detail, load up profile or try to made pictures like the Guy above...
For special Things like you have Phönix HT and Void, there are little changes in setup, but then you have other buttons free for that handling.....
KK, i hope someone will try out my hotkey setup, because, an ESDF Grid is always BETTER tahn WASD, because you have EXACT the same settings, no changes by feeling ingame, BUT you have 3 more Buttons and with Control/Shift/Alt you have definitive the better choice..
So you basically shifted Grid over one row of keys? That sounds like it would make reaching modifier keys much more difficult, and a no-go for someone with small hands. Just trying it now I'm see my pinky just barely sitting on the edge of Shift (I have a US keyboard, so my Shift is long, my hand is also fairly big). How do you get around Ctrl being so far away? Do you primarily use Shift to add to groups instead of creating? Also, what is your Unit Control layout (Attack, stop, Move, etc.)?
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On April 02 2013 22:50 SHODAN wrote:
there are some real whacky hotkey threads going round these days. the theory to this set-up is so well thought out. unfortunately my brain is hard wired to standard brood war/warcraft III/sc2 keys. If I attempt to use something like core/fleet keys my brain would fall apart like a piece of wet cake.
What part of Fleet Keys in your opinion is less wacky than the other layouts that are popping up? I get a fair bit of mixed reactions so I was just wondering.
I like the idea of mapping certain keys according to where you're putting them on the map to a certain extent. When I'm setting up my Cameras I do this in a similar fashion, with A,S,D,F on Main, natural, third, forward pos. Then the bottom row is usually Cameras that flow from top-right to bottom left. As for hard-wiring your brain, you seem to have a handle on 3 different game's layouts, which implies that you've got a flexible brain on those shoulders. Fleet Keys Element is pretty simple and organized, and Alloy is is even further condensed and organized, so you don't need to really put too much effort into remembering specific keys to learn either, it's more a matter of getting comfortable with Grid(esque) bindings. Grid works in other games as well, so there are other benefits to it. Thanks for checking out the thread SHODAN!
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This is amazing! I hope I get used to it soon. One question though. Did you change the warp in key to Shift + middle mouse button because of the drag scroll bound? Does anyone actually use that option? I think I've never used middle mouse to move the camera. But I haven't played much so maybe it's useful? I changed the warp in to middle mouse just to make it a little bit simplier. Anyway great key setting!
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On April 03 2013 02:54 Zerotoone wrote:
This is amazing! I hope I get used to it soon. One question though. Did you change the warp in key to Shift + middle mouse button because of the drag scroll bound? Does anyone actually use that option? I think I've never used middle mouse to move the camera. But I haven't played much so maybe it's useful? I changed the warp in to middle mouse just to make it a little bit simplier. Anyway great key setting!
Hey thanks Zerotoone!
I like the MMB using Warp-in just like you have it now, and I suspect many other Protoss players will do the same. I didn't design Fleet Keys for mouse buttons outside MMB so I tried making the most of it without bloating the MMB with too many bindings, only immediately necessary ones (I have a Razer Abyssus; it's a standard mouse with no bells and whistles, just a MMB).
Warp-in being bound to Shift+MMB as default is just a way to allow it to exist and to at least give a player the idea that these types of bindings are nice options. I did not bind MMB on its own to select Warpgates because I couldn't keep a consistent theme across the 3 races with it that way. So the Drag-Cam was a nice fit for a universal binding/starting point for players. Drag-Cam may not be used so much among your average player, but just think about how often you pan screens by moving your mouse to the edge of the screen. Being able to press MMB and pan with the pan speed set to max should almost always be the better option when trying to scroll around. Just another option to scroll the map with a great amount of control.
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On April 03 2013 02:54 Zerotoone wrote:
This is amazing! I hope I get used to it soon. One question though. Did you change the warp in key to Shift + middle mouse button because of the drag scroll bound? Does anyone actually use that option? I think I've never used middle mouse to move the camera. But I haven't played much so maybe it's useful? I changed the warp in to middle mouse just to make it a little bit simplier. Anyway great key setting!
Middle mouse button drag is extremely useful when setting up camera locations if you want to be both fast and precise (click minimap, drag MMB to get it perfect, repeat).
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On April 03 2013 07:40 Mintograde wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 02:54 Zerotoone wrote:
This is amazing! I hope I get used to it soon. One question though. Did you change the warp in key to Shift + middle mouse button because of the drag scroll bound? Does anyone actually use that option? I think I've never used middle mouse to move the camera. But I haven't played much so maybe it's useful? I changed the warp in to middle mouse just to make it a little bit simplier. Anyway great key setting! Middle mouse button drag is extremely useful when setting up camera locations if you want to be both fast and precise (click minimap, drag MMB to get it perfect, repeat).
I didn't like the feel of it at first because I wasn't used to how the game handles your cursor when dragging the camera. Your cursor could be on the top-left, then you would drag the camera, your cursor disappeared, and then and release w/e keys and the cursor would re-appear in the top left where you left it. Once I accepted that it was pretty intuitive to just click MMB instead of scrolling around. I'd like to see the cursor remain visible while dragging the camera. That would easily make it one of the most useful commands in the game if you could retain complete accuracy by having the cursor visible. Although it's super useful as-is...It would still be nice to see the cursor.
I wouldn't even call that a small nitpick, as it really takes away from the feature imo. I wonder if they (Blizzard) have a specific reason why they hide the cursor when using the camera drag?
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I downloaded the protoss-terran alloy version and I have like 90~ unbound keys and the Stop-command is on the `-key. I can only assume that this has something to do with me having a swedish keyboard layout, so where can I see what the real keys should be?
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On April 05 2013 03:43 trew wrote:
I downloaded the protoss-terran alloy version and I have like 90~ unbound keys and the Stop-command is on the `-key. I can only assume that this has something to do with me having a swedish keyboard layout, so where can I see what the real keys should be?
You should be able to use this tool by Phatency to translate the hotkey file to your Swedish keyboard layout:
Use the flowchart in the skydrive to find out which layout is right for you and take a note of its name. Use this tool for the conversion into your keyboard. Make a remapping file with it (check the readme). Requires .NET framework 3.0 or higher, and probably Windows. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14548792/SC2HotkeyRemapper.zipWhen possible we'll have straight downloads for different keyboard types, for now, if you make a version for a different keyboard, please share it in the comments
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Thanks for the tip, but I don't think the translated version helped very much. It still looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/6W92Uyv.png
Stop-command is on the key to the right of P ... that can't be right?
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On April 05 2013 04:29 trew wrote:Thanks for the tip, but I don't think the translated version helped very much. It still looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/6W92Uyv.pngStop-command is on the key to the right of P ... that can't be right?
Yeah i don't think so!
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The Alloy beta doesn't have any Master Sheets at this moment, so I don't have any visual references yet. HotS bindings aren't included in the Alloy beta at this time either, so those few keys must be bound manually since I can't. A pain, I know, but it's going to take time until I get the hotkey files made (unless someone wants to go through the bindings with me over Skype to produce them). This is why you have some unbound keys in Protoss & Terran HotS additions as well as for Zerg. In the T&P files, I unbound all Zerg keys because they had to be unbound to avoid some conflicts since the two files sport some key differences that could not be mapped together in the same file.
If you click through each unit or building in the in-game hotkeys interface, you'll be able to see the pattern that the Alloy bindings follow (emphasis on Q,W,E,A,S,D). The only thing I suggest when looking through them is binding Space Bar as an alternate key to your favorite spells and abilities (only applicable to Protoss and Terran, as Zerg uses Space Bar for Injects).
The Unit Commands for Alloy are as follows:
- Q - Patrol (Some players swap it with move.)
- W - Hold Position (Stop commands are issued automatically by the game after a unit is completed a task, Hold Position is more effective for combat and keeps your units planted like a "stopping command" should.
- E - Attack (So much easier to reach than A or T, and allows for fast alternating between the 3 most commonly-used Control Groups: 1,2,3.)
- R - Move (Necessary for things like Magic-Boxing/avoiding clumping, and leading Widow Mine shots.)
- T - Burrow
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Downloaded the Alloy keys and they look like an interesting combination of a grid-based philosophy with a more usable layout. I have a number of comments and a to-do list of what you need to consider once you get Heart of the Swarm access, which you will need to make separate hotkey files for, since the ordering of buttons has changed in a number of places.
Note that for grid positioning I will use A-C as rows and 1-5 as columns.
TERRAN
Both Versions
Command Center, Planetary Fortress: If you wanted to be consisted with transports, Load All should be assigned to F and Unload All should be assigned to D.
Tech Lab (Starport): With no Seeker Missile research, the Corvid Reactor and Cloaking Field buttons have moved over to A3-A4, so by convention they should be assigned hotkeys E and R,respectively.
Bunker: The Set Rally Point should be . (period) to be consistent with the other buildings.
SCV: The Advanced Structures hotkeys don't follow the usual convention; Armory should be assigned to S, Starport to Z, and Fusion Core to X.
Current WoL Setup
Tech Lab (Factory): The 250mm Strike Cannons should be mapped to E.
Future HotS Setup
Barracks: The Reaper has been moved to before the Marauder, so the order is now Marine, Reaper, Marauder, Ghost, meaning the Reaper and Marauder need to switch hotkeys to W-E.
Factory: The new unit order goes Hellion, Widow Mine, Siege Tank, Hellbat, Thor from A1-A5.
Tech Lab (Factory): Drilling Claws and Transformation Servos are at A2-A3 and should be assigned W-E.
Armory: Vehicle and Ship Plating has been combined and should be assigned to W.
Hellion: Hellion Mode and Hellbat Mode are at C1-C2 and should be assigned to A-S or Z-X.
Widow Mine: Activate Mine and Deactivate Mine are at C2-C3. Given the other Terran conventions they likely should be assigned to A/Space and S.
Thor: High Impact Payload and Explosive Payload are at C1-C2 and should be assigned to A-S or Z-X.
Medivacs: Assign Ignite Afterburners to A/Space.
PROTOSS
Both Versions
Warp Gate: IMO Escape is too common of a key to assign to the Transform to Gateway ability. The number of times I would make a mistake undoing a Warp Gate change while hitting Escape would far exceed the convenience of something the vast majority of players never do. I'd remove Escape and leave it with just X as the hotkey.
Fleet Beacon: Anion Pulse-Crystals should be assigned to Q.
Future HotS Setup
Nexus: The button to build the Mothership has been replaced with Mothership Core, which isn't a big deal. A bigger problem is that the Nexus now can attack, so it has an Attack button that's bound to E with all the units. I'd recommend assigning W to the MSC and changing the Chrono Boost key to A/Space.
Stargate: The order of units to build has changed. It now goes Phoenix, Oracle, Void Ray, Tempest, Carrier, which would change the Void Ray and Carrier build hotkeys from WoL. (Unfortunate that Tempest and Carrier aren't switched.)
Sentry: The hallucinated Oracle at C2 pushes the Colossus to C3, changing their hotkeys to X and C, respectively.
Mothership Core: This unit poses all sorts of problems for your setup. It has the button to upgrade to full mothership at B1, then Photon Overcharge, Mass Recall, and Time Warp from C1-C3. So if it was like a grid you'd assign A to the upgrade and then Z-X-C to the spells, but every other unit assigns A-S-D to spells, so it's more natural from a use standpoint to assign A-S-D to the spells on the bottom row and something like Z to the upgrade, even though visually it's reversed. (Space should be assigned to Time Warp.) And the other related problem is...
Mothership: The new mothership has the same spells as the core, except it's missing Photon Overcharge -- and the remaining two spells have shifted over to C1-C2. So, either you follow grid and reassign those spells as A-S, or you keep the spells consistent with the core and assign them to S-D, or you go back and assign the spells in the core as D-A-S as some sort of compromise. Personally I'm a fan of option #2.
Oracle: It has four spells from C1-C4: Revelation, Envision, Activate Pulsar Beam, and Deactivate Pulsar Beam. To be consistent these should be assigned as A-S-D-F. I'd assign Space as an alternate to Activate Pulsar Beam.
Void Ray: Assign Prismatic Alignment ability. Should be A/Space.
ZERG
Both Versions
Ultralisk Cavern: Chitinous Plating should be assigned to hotkey Q.
Drone: The Infestation Pit is assigned the wrong hotkey for Advanced Structures; it should be W.
Zergling, Corruptor, Overlord: I believe the morph action should be consistent with the building morphs, all of which are mapped to Z. So I would map each of these units' morph actions to Z. This has the advantage of adding consistency between the Corruptor and Overlord morph keys, which are currently S and A, respectively. For the Corruptor, I would keep Corrupt on A; I would move Generate Creep to X on the Overlord, as it pairs up well with the Stop Generate Creep command, which currently can't be changed and is mapped to C.
Baneling: I feel the explosion is an important action and should be moved up to A. Enable/Disable Building Attack can then be mapped to Z-X, which feels more natural as they're less used.
Current WoL Setup
Infestation Pit: Pathogen Glands and Neural Parasite should be assigned to Q and W, respectively.
Future HotS Setup
Hydralisk Den: Muscular Augments should be assigned hotkey W.
Infestation Pit: The upgrade button order is now Pathogen Glands, Neural Parasite, Enduring Locusts, which should be assigned hotkeys Q-W-E.
Larva: The units produced from larva have been reordered and need to have their hotkeys reassigned as appropriate.
Drone: The Basic Structures layout has been modified so that the Roach Warren and Baneling Nest are in row B and the two static defenses are in their own row C. The hotkeys need to be reassigned as appropriate.
Viper: The three spells are Consume, Abduct, and Blinding Cloud, assigned to A-S-D.
Swarm Host: Three things have to be mapped: Spawn Locusts, Burrow/Unburrow, and Set Rally Point. The options that most make sense are either to follow the unit burrowing convention and assign T to Burrow/Unburrow, and then A to Spawn Locusts; or, since Burrow is the primary action you do with Spawn Hosts, follow the Crawler convention and assign Burrow/Unburrow to A and Spawn Locusts to S or Z (it's an autocast, so used less often). I lean towards the second option myself. Set Rally Point should be mapped to . (period) like the rally points on the Hatchery.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 16:00 mongoose22 wrote:
Downloaded the Alloy keys and they look like an interesting combination of a grid-based philosophy with a more usable layout. I have a number of comments and a to-do list of what you need to consider once you get Heart of the Swarm access, which you will need to make separate hotkey files for, since the ordering of buttons has changed in a number of places.
Note that for grid positioning I will use A-C as rows and 1-5 as columns.
TERRAN
Both Versions
Command Center, Planetary Fortress: If you wanted to be consisted with transports, Load All should be assigned to F and Unload All should be assigned to D.
Tech Lab (Starport): With no Seeker Missile research, the Corvid Reactor and Cloaking Field buttons have moved over to A3-A4, so by convention they should be assigned hotkeys E and R,respectively.
Bunker: The Set Rally Point should be . (period) to be consistent with the other buildings.
SCV: The Advanced Structures hotkeys don't follow the usual convention; Armory should be assigned to S, Starport to Z, and Fusion Core to X.
Current WoL Setup
Tech Lab (Factory): The 250mm Strike Cannons should be mapped to E.
Future HotS Setup
Barracks: The Reaper has been moved to before the Marauder, so the order is now Marine, Reaper, Marauder, Ghost, meaning the Reaper and Marauder need to switch hotkeys to W-E.
Factory: The new unit order goes Hellion, Widow Mine, Siege Tank, Hellbat, Thor from A1-A5.
Tech Lab (Factory): Drilling Claws and Transformation Servos are at A2-A3 and should be assigned W-E.
Armory: Vehicle and Ship Plating has been combined and should be assigned to W.
Hellion: Hellion Mode and Hellbat Mode are at C1-C2 and should be assigned to A-S or Z-X.
Widow Mine: Activate Mine and Deactivate Mine are at C2-C3. Given the other Terran conventions they likely should be assigned to A/Space and S.
Thor: High Impact Payload and Explosive Payload are at C1-C2 and should be assigned to A-S or Z-X.
Medivacs: Assign Ignite Afterburners to A/Space.
PROTOSS
Both Versions
Warp Gate: IMO Escape is too common of a key to assign to the Transform to Gateway ability. The number of times I would make a mistake undoing a Warp Gate change while hitting Escape would far exceed the convenience of something the vast majority of players never do. I'd remove Escape and leave it with just X as the hotkey.
Fleet Beacon: Anion Pulse-Crystals should be assigned to Q.
Future HotS Setup
Nexus: The button to build the Mothership has been replaced with Mothership Core, which isn't a big deal. A bigger problem is that the Nexus now can attack, so it has an Attack button that's bound to E with all the units. I'd recommend assigning W to the MSC and changing the Chrono Boost key to A/Space.
Stargate: The order of units to build has changed. It now goes Phoenix, Oracle, Void Ray, Tempest, Carrier, which would change the Void Ray and Carrier build hotkeys from WoL. (Unfortunate that Tempest and Carrier aren't switched.)
Sentry: The hallucinated Oracle at C2 pushes the Colossus to C3, changing their hotkeys to X and C, respectively.
Mothership Core: This unit poses all sorts of problems for your setup. It has the button to upgrade to full mothership at B1, then Photon Overcharge, Mass Recall, and Time Warp from C1-C3. So if it was like a grid you'd assign A to the upgrade and then Z-X-C to the spells, but every other unit assigns A-S-D to spells, so it's more natural from a use standpoint to assign A-S-D to the spells on the bottom row and something like Z to the upgrade, even though visually it's reversed. (Space should be assigned to Time Warp.) And the other related problem is...
Mothership: The new mothership has the same spells as the core, except it's missing Photon Overcharge -- and the remaining two spells have shifted over to C1-C2. So, either you follow grid and reassign those spells as A-S, or you keep the spells consistent with the core and assign them to S-D, or you go back and assign the spells in the core as D-A-S as some sort of compromise. Personally I'm a fan of option #2.
Oracle: It has four spells from C1-C4: Revelation, Envision, Activate Pulsar Beam, and Deactivate Pulsar Beam. To be consistent these should be assigned as A-S-D-F. I'd assign Space as an alternate to Activate Pulsar Beam.
Void Ray: Assign Prismatic Alignment ability. Should be A/Space.
ZERG
Both Versions
Ultralisk Cavern: Chitinous Plating should be assigned to hotkey Q.
Drone: The Infestation Pit is assigned the wrong hotkey for Advanced Structures; it should be W.
Zergling, Corruptor, Overlord: I believe the morph action should be consistent with the building morphs, all of which are mapped to Z. So I would map each of these units' morph actions to Z. This has the advantage of adding consistency between the Corruptor and Overlord morph keys, which are currently S and A, respectively. For the Corruptor, I would keep Corrupt on A; I would move Generate Creep to X on the Overlord, as it pairs up well with the Stop Generate Creep command, which currently can't be changed and is mapped to C.
Baneling: I feel the explosion is an important action and should be moved up to A. Enable/Disable Building Attack can then be mapped to Z-X, which feels more natural as they're less used.
Current WoL Setup
Infestation Pit: Pathogen Glands and Neural Parasite should be assigned to Q and W, respectively.
Future HotS Setup
Hydralisk Den: Muscular Augments should be assigned hotkey W.
Infestation Pit: The upgrade button order is now Pathogen Glands, Neural Parasite, Enduring Locusts, which should be assigned hotkeys Q-W-E.
Larva: The units produced from larva have been reordered and need to have their hotkeys reassigned as appropriate.
Drone: The Basic Structures layout has been modified so that the Roach Warren and Baneling Nest are in row B and the two static defenses are in their own row C. The hotkeys need to be reassigned as appropriate.
Viper: The three spells are Consume, Abduct, and Blinding Cloud, assigned to A-S-D.
Swarm Host: Three things have to be mapped: Spawn Locusts, Burrow/Unburrow, and Set Rally Point. The options that most make sense are either to follow the unit burrowing convention and assign T to Burrow/Unburrow, and then A to Spawn Locusts; or, since Burrow is the primary action you do with Spawn Hosts, follow the Crawler convention and assign Burrow/Unburrow to A and Spawn Locusts to S or Z (it's an autocast, so used less often). I lean towards the second option myself. Set Rally Point should be mapped to . (period) like the rally points on the Hatchery.
Oh wow! So many changes for the HotS layouts. Thank you so much for taking the time to type this up, it's going to be a great help when I do get access to the expansion. I'm going to store this post to use as a reference point for later, so thank you again. Right now, I'm working on revamping the thread to make room for the new Element and Alloy format the thread will follow, so I've got lots to do until I gain access!
With Element, most things seem to be fairly static, so that's great. It's a strength and limitation that seems to be the case with that layout.
Alloy is still in its very early stages, but the points you made are going to help a lot for it getting off on the right foot! I'm glad that just by checking it out you see the patterns and the concepts that drive the layout. I realize that Alloy is much more ambitious than Element, but I hope it doesn't look too alien, as familiarity and structure are themes I want to play close to when possible.
The MsC/MS looks like it's going to require some going over. As for the Swarm Host, I like Burrow being on A, I may even use T as an Alternate binding for Burrow as well. You'r right about the rally point. They were not commands that I ever see people use, so I bind them far out of the way. It makes the Command Cards look less appealing, but it keeps the game from throwing up conflict messages.
I have a question for you though, what's your take on Space Bar's use as a customizable "Smart-Key"?
Often times, I will bind keys to keep them from reporting conflicts, even if the hotkeys are bound to far-away keys to never be used (I do try to keep them together on the far right).
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Questions and Answers section now updated! I'll be sure to add more in the near future.
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Got HotS access! Finally, it's time go to work on the new HotS Fleet keys systems!
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Additional Q&A updates! Check them out!
Support for non-US keyboards starts as well! It will take a while for the Master Sheets to appear though, as they all need updating across the board. Hotkey files first, Master Sheets later.
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Updated Q&A section again.
AZERTY Alloy versions are now up! Find them through the red Alloy links throughout the thread. Let me know if anything is broken!
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HotS QWERTY and AZERTY Element files are now uploaded! That makes the HotS systems complete!
Please note that the Master Sheets now have a couple bindings that are not accurate anymore, so treat Caps Lock for Zerg as Control Group 5, which removes CG5 from Alt.
Also, in Protoss, Warp-in is no longer bound to Alt.
Edit: The newly uploaded files seemed to be solid and without any errors, but as always, if anyone sees a mistake, let me know and it will be corrected!
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@eneyeseekay
Out of curiosity, how are you creating the alternative keyboard layout versions? If you are doing it by hand, I may be able to help you automate the process.
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United States15536 Posts
@eneyeseekay
Do you have any quick hotkey switching solutions for people looking to use Fleet Keys to play Random? I'm not mistaken when I say they aren't interchangable, right?
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I don't understand how Q can be bound to both command card and also to Control group 7... Do I have to press alt+Q if I want to use my command card ability?
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@JDub
I made the bindings that I could on my QWERTY/US keyboard, and then sent the file over to a player in EU that used AZERTY. He patched up the problems on the AZERTY files and then I reviewed/uploaded them. I'm not sure if you've run into this before, but he's telling me that the Grid-based layout, Element, doesn't work on AZERTY keyboards, he suspects it might have something to do with the language of the game install itself. He said it's probably something that Blizzard would need to fix, but I have no idea what it could be, as I haven't been able to look into it yet. I laid out the Grid bindings according to how AZERTY keyboards appear, but I guess that isn't enough?
I won't be making other versions for quite a while, but I will PM you if I need to "translate" or "migrate" the layouts over to other formats. Thanks a lot for the offer!
@AsmodeusXI
For each version of Fleet Keys for each keyboard type, there are only 2 layouts that you'd need to switch between. I can't offer any more help regarding that because the Zerg layout is different than the Terran Protoss ones. If you are a Random player, then you will have to switch between the two files whenever you go from Terran and Protoss, to Zerg. It's not the perfect situation, but it's better than having 3 separate files. If you were to modify the Zerg layout to work like Protoss and Terran or vice-versa, then you could have one single file to play from, but you forego any big advantage that the two separate files provide to their respective races.
@TheFish7
Q,W,E,R are selected by pressing Alt+Q to R.
You create them by pressing Ctrl+Q to R.
Ctrl+Shift+Q to R adds to the created groups.
When you aren't pressing Alt, they behave as normal, so for example, if you select an Engineering Bay or Evo Chamber, you can press Q,W or E to issue a research command. You won't select a Control Group from Q to R. Control Groups 7,8,9,0 (Q,W,E,R) are placed there to bring in all of your Control Groups closer to you, same as Camera Locations are too. Camera Locations are created and selected the exact same way , with Alt+A to F/Z to V to select, and Ctrl+A to F/Z to V to create the locations. The hotkeys linked to Q to V have no effect on the game's commands unless you use the modifier key Alt.
The same rules apply to Unit commands such as Patrol, Hold Position, Attack, and Move (Q,W,E,R, respectively). You can press them freely on their own while selecting your 1- 5 control Groups, and they have zero effect on the control Groups stored within Q-R.
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On April 10 2013 03:43 TheFish7 wrote:
I don't understand how Q can be bound to both command card and also to Control group 7... Do I have to press alt+Q if I want to use my command card ability?
Think of every key as being able to be used 8 different ways:
Q
Alt+Q
Shift+Q
Ctrl+Q
Alt+Shift+Q
Alt+Ctrl+Q
Shift+Ctrl+Q
Alt+Shift+Ctrl+Q
Those are 8 completely separate bindings, however if you get heavy into this "layering" keep in mind the other functionality of the modifier keys, such as Shift acting to toggle and append commands, which can cause conflicts.
For example, if I bind an Overseer's Changling ability to 'C', and I bind Shift+C to 'Cycle Base Cams' for example, if I try to direct my Overseer and queue up a changling at a part of the route, the Shift+C bind for Cycle Base Cams will override the Changling command. So, while layering is there and is a very useful tool, there are potholes to navigate while configuring custom hotkey setups.
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@Kaitlin
I ran into those exact conflicts early on, especially when trying to use Shift+ bindings. Even if you found one that worked ok within Q to V, I have a feeling by the end of LotV, there would be some new things added to the command cards that would completely throw off those bindings. I feel a little bad for having players add to Q,W,E,R by pressing Ctrl+Shift+Q,W,E,R, as people with small hands may not be able to add to R as easily as they want to, but it's either that or having CG's 7,8,9,0 on the other end of the keyboard.
Having potentially 8 different functions on each key is appealing, I just wish that the modifiers weren't so rigid. We have a great amount of options as-is, but if I could ask for one more thing, it would be direct control over the modifiers.
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Just a heads up, everyone, I am updating the download folders tonight, so the links may become dead periodically. What I am doing is removing the old original Fleet Keys files, and restructuring the download folders to host Element and Alloy for the thread overhaul as the two versions.
I will be deleting the Google Drive download link tonight, as it's just way too much trouble maintaining and updating multiple downloads. I also want to trim down the content of the thread before said overhaul, so this is just a first step in that direction.
Please note that the Master Sheets for Fleet Keys (pre-Element and and Alloy) still apply to Element, minus the fact that Warpgates and Queens are no longer bound to Alt. I don't want to spend time modifying the current Master Sheets since it's time not spent on the ones that will completely replace them in the very near-future. There are no Master Sheets for Alloy yet, as they will arrive with the new Element ones. If you look at the hotkeys in-game, you'll see that there's a very simple pattern to Alloy; it's very easy to read in the gui.
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The Q&A section received some updates, and the downloads are now in working order with fresh new links and structure. They are organized much better, and now include the latest QWERTY, AZERTY and Dvorak hotkey files! I encourage you to replace your file now with the new Element and Alloy files, as these are pretty solid and probably won't see many changes for a long while.
The campaign Dvorak and AZERTY are not yet ready, so the files up now will be updated when I get around to it (probably tomorrow). Wait for the message here and the change in the Q&A section if you want to wait for the campaign bindings. Multiplayer seems to check out fine in all files though, so enjoy!
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Just wanted to let everyone know the current status of the HotS campaign files.
Right now, I have the AZERTY HotS Protoss & Terran and Zerg complete. There were sooo many more bindings that I had previously thought! The campaign files will be uploaded as separate files for players to switch between since there are many abilities and upgrades included in the campaign that can potentially throw off the multiplayer versions if kept the same, and we would not want that! It's not a decision I was happy about making, as I want to keep the least amount of files as possible to avoid confusion. The download files structure will be organized so players will be able to find the versions they want without having to sift through many lists of files.
TL;DR: Wow. Campaign support is serious business (but it's coming along well)!
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I checked the dropbox, and downloaded it, but where are the Alloy builds? From your original post it sounds like you at least have some Alloy completed. Is it not available for download? The Alloy folders were empty.
In fact, I looked in the HotS multiplayer Element Protoss folder, and there's no SC2HOTKEYS file in there whatsoever... are you in the process of updating or something?
(checked the WoL multiplayer Element Protoss folder, nothing there either)
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On April 14 2013 14:11 adghar wrote:
I checked the dropbox, and downloaded it, but where are the Alloy builds? From your original post it sounds like you at least have some Alloy completed. Is it not available for download? The Alloy folders were empty.
In fact, I looked in the HotS multiplayer Element Protoss folder, and there's no SC2HOTKEYS file in there whatsoever... are you in the process of updating or something?
(checked the WoL multiplayer Element Protoss folder, nothing there either)
I'm about to unload them all in just a few short minutes!
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All Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm files are now complete (HotS files were uploaded 2 nights ago). Sorry for any inconvenience or confusion this may have caused for you WoL players! This is what you've been waiting for! Finally...The files are complete. Now to start on the new thread images!
The new files I added today are:
Wings of Liberty Multiplayer Files:
ALLOY
+ Show Spoiler +QWERTY- WoL_Multiplayer_FK_Alloy_QWERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_Multiplayer_FK_Alloy_QWERTY_ZERG
AZERTY- WoL_Multiplayer_FK_Alloy_AZERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_Multiplayer_FK_Alloy_AZERTY_ZERG
DVORAK- WoL_Multiplayer_FK_Alloy_DVORAK_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_Multiplayer_FK_Alloy_DVORAK_ZERG
ELEMENT
+ Show Spoiler +QWERTY- WoL_FK_Element_QWERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_FK_Element_QWERTY_ZERG
AZERTY- WoL_FK_Element_AZERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_FK_Element_AZERTY_ZERG
DVORAK- WoL_FK_Element_DVORAK_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_FK_Element_DVORAK_ZERG
Wings of Liberty Campaign Files:
ALLOY
+ Show Spoiler +QWERTY- WoL_Campaign_FK_Alloy_QWERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_Campaign_FK_Alloy_QWERTY_ZERG
AZERTY- WoL_Campaign_FK_Alloy_AZERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_Campaign_FK_Alloy_AZERTY_ZERG
DVORAK- WoL_Campaign_FK_Alloy_DVORAK_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_Campaign_FK_Alloy_DVORAK_ZERG
ELEMENT
+ Show Spoiler +QWERTY- WoL_FK_Element_QWERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_FK_Element_QWERTY_ZERG
AZERTY- WoL_FK_Element_AZERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_FK_Element_AZERTY_ZERG
DVORAK- WoL_FK_Element_DVORAK_PROTOSS_TERRAN
- WoL_FK_Element_DVORAK_ZERG
Yes, the Element files are duplicates. They don't change as Element is Grid-based. I just placed the duplicate Element files in their proper folders so people can access them from wherever. I labeled them according to each expansion for organizational purposes, there haven't been modifications between Element files.
Gonna take a break for the night... Haha... Enjoy, everyone!
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Hey!
Just wanted to let everyone know the progress of the big overhaul. I know I haven't been updating much since I uploaded all of the SC2HOTKEY files for each expansion, game mode, and keyboard type. Those were important to finish first, and took much less time to make than what I'm currently working on now.
So Far
Right now, I have the new thread headers complete, and the planning for the new thread structure is complete as well (there will be much less text to read in the re-design, yay!). My plan right now, is to cut down and condense the sections into 4 sections at the very most, add some polls (most likely creating a new section for them), and drastically reducing/summarizing the content that the thread currently features. Some day down the road I'll get around to doing some videos, but as for the immediate future, I will stick to images and text. It's ok, they're all somewhat pretty and easy to look at; I wouldn't have it any other way.
If anyone is wondering about Master Sheets, be aware that I will be creating new ones and when uploaded, I'll be pulling down the old ones as they will (and do now) contain some inaccuracies. I will keep the old ones on my imgur account in case someone needs the old ones. I may keep the format of them to be thread-friendly (vertically oriented), but making "proper-sized" 1920x1080 sets of Master Sheets is my main priority at the moment.
Any Suggestions?
If there is anything else that you may think this thread can benefit from that I didn't already talk about, please don't hesitate in making suggestions. The first draft of this thread was pretty good for my first time around, but I would like to settle on a more permanent design this time. Fleet Keys Alloy and Element are now much more stable and developed and I would like the thread to reflect that with the best content I can produce.
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I've put the file into a hotkeys folder, and when I go into the game I see them there. When I click on the profile it shows all the keys as being unbound.. am I doing something wrong?
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I admire your effort, and I wish I could analyze this deeper, but I'm so ingrained into TheCore that I can't give a decent review without comparing to TheCore about 500 times.
Although I do have one question: What is your opinion of this layout compared to DarkGrid, in all seriousness? Pros? Cons? I'm comparing to DarkGrid because I see you like to distance yourself from Chameleon and TheCore.
I am particularly interested in your control group setup. On DarkGrid the macro control groups are mostly on the side mouse buttons and all of the other control groups are also incredibly accessible. Did you improve on this at all, and if so, how? If you feel that you did not, was it a necessary evil to make room for other keys?
Sorry for all the questions; the Q&A doesn't discuss these types of things.
And also, I love your "Master Sheet" images. Aesthetically pleasing and up-to-date unlike TheCore's. 
+ Show Spoiler +Dammit, I compared it to TheCore, didn't I?
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On April 30 2013 10:39 Shane wrote:
I've put the file into a hotkeys folder, and when I go into the game I see them there. When I click on the profile it shows all the keys as being unbound.. am I doing something wrong?
What file did you attempt to use? There should be a few global bindings that are unbound, such as Achievements Menu, but having the entire layout unbound doesn't sound right.
I'm not entirely sure as to what you mean by they are "all" unbound, but I hope it's not "all". Yeah, send it to eneyeseekay999@gmail.com and I'll take a look at it . Before doing that, make sure you are using the right file. There may be unbound keys here and there if you are trying to use a Zerg layout when playing as Protoss or Terran.
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On April 30 2013 11:07 Antylamon wrote:I admire your effort, and I wish I could analyze this deeper, but I'm so ingrained into TheCore that I can't give a decent review without comparing to TheCore about 500 times. Although I do have one question: What is your opinion of this layout compared to DarkGrid, in all seriousness? Pros? Cons? I'm comparing to DarkGrid because I see you like to distance yourself from Chameleon and TheCore. I am particularly interested in your control group setup. On DarkGrid the macro control groups are mostly on the side mouse buttons and all of the other control groups are also incredibly accessible. Did you improve on this at all, and if so, how? If you feel that you did not, was it a necessary evil to make room for other keys? Sorry for all the questions; the Q&A doesn't discuss these types of things. And also, I love your "Master Sheet" images. Aesthetically pleasing and up-to-date unlike TheCore's. + Show Spoiler +Dammit, I compared it to TheCore, didn't I?
Hey thanks for kind words regarding the effort and aesthetics, I really appreciate it.
I've been asked about TheCore and DarkGrid a lot actually, so don't beat yourself up about it, haha. I'd be happy to answer your questions. I wrote a short novel for you btw.
Ok, so DarkGrid. I think DarkGrid was an important step in custom hotkeys. It was (as far as I know) the first layout to throw out any semblance of familiarity for players, in exchange for efficiency. The arrangement of its keys reflected a lot of thought. I wasn't keen on the suggestive bindings being based heavily around specific units, but I understand the approach. I feel that unless you are going to be aiming to compete at a professional level for a living, then it wouldn't be the layout I would personally use. I could say the same about TheCore, but that's a whole other beast (a much more developed one). I guess this applies to both layouts mentioned here, but I'm waiting to see someone win a major tournament with one of them. I want to see that edge a player gains from a heavily customized layout--anything but standard! I feel that will be the next big step in custom hotkey layouts, and I am patiently waiting to see that day come. We're still waiting, but TheCore and DarkGrid are developed and recognized, so eventually something's going to give. Fleet Keys is far too new for that kind of thing, and it's not really known, so right now I'm looking to the users of DarkGrid and TheCore to really pull it through.
I'll be the first one to say it; basing a layout around mouse buttons isn't the best choice, but sure, they can be useful. I like the idea of keeping the mouse buttons optional. It removes a lot of the questions of: "Well my mouse doesn't have buttons what now?", and "My mouse has way more than two buttons, omg what do I do now?". I like being able to say: "Yeah, use them if you want if you think they'll help! If you don't have them, then that's ok too." I have a love/hate relationship with mouse buttons. I don't completely discourage using them, but I don't really promote the use of them (sorry if that answer was a bit grey). My short answer is: "They're awwwright I suppose."
I didn't approach the design of Fleet Keys the same way that DarkGrid/TheCore did. Fleet keys was originally just something I made for myself, I wanted access to all CGS and cameras, and a way to cut out Z, as it was awkward and I was using an unmodified Grid. So I laid them out the bindings in a comfortable fashion, found the solution to Z, and I suddenly I had an "optimized" Grid layout. I can't stress how different it is from a design point of view, its hard to really compare Fleet Keys to DarkGrid/TheCore, because they only share a few key concepts, and loosely at that. I'm sure people would be shocked if I said that with the new Alloy version I'm about to release, you can perform Layered Injects as easy or easier than DarkGrid(can't say TheCore as I really don't know the exact layout of its method). You even get 8 cameras instead of 6, and the cameras are rolled through with your ring/middle/index fingers.... smooth! I even optimized the Backspace Inject method to the point where you don't need to click on Hatcheries, and the arrangement of the Backspace method keys are the same as the Layered ones so players now have a choice as to what method they want. Another subtle but potentially powerful feature I managed to implement was a rapid fire command that lets you issue any ability or spell at the speed of your keyboard's repeat rate. No clicking required, no moving you hand out of reach, no mouse buttons or modifiers required. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? I'm not kidding though, it works, and doesn't get in the way of any other bindings either. You can spam Infested Terrans, Creep Tumors, Corruption, Feedback, Snipes, all of the Build Basic/Advanced commands, anything, and it works for all races. Not sure how useful it will be, but *shrug*...I think it's a cool feature I've never seen before. The "Smart Key" is another great addition. It's a key that you can customize to perform any command you want, one binding per Command Card. It's also the hardest key to miss (Space Bar), and yes, you can Chrono and MULE with it. Picture one useful command per unit/structure in the game, and you can (and do) have it under your thumb. Stim? Blink? Forcefield? Psi Storm? It's all under your thumb. It applies to everything.
About those CG's you asked about. They are awesome in some ways, and not so awesome in another. Alt+Q/W/E/R works like a dream for Zerg and Protoss, but for Terran, this is probably their number 1 deterrent. Essentially, this Alt+Q/W/E/R business lets you watch/monitor your production at speeds I've never seen before. Queuing up units can a pain though, because of the CG's being tucked under Q/W/E/R. As you go into the lategame, this gets much better, and becomes an asset, because you are always able to be aware of the state of your massive production engine. So it has its advantages and disadvantages. Keeping the CG's horizontally oriented was important because of finger movement and rolling. You can roll your fingers across any row, it feels pretty good, it's easy to learn, and you can even build workers and Chrono/MULE by rolling your fingers if you don't like using the Smart Key. You can build workers this was as well with Tab>Q. There are a lot of nice interactions wherever you look, and it still manages to look fairly basic.
I think I wrote enough here, haha.. These types of messages are good for reference and thought, so it isn't a complete waste of time. Thanks a lot for being polite btw. If you have any more questions, I'll answer em. Till next time!
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On April 30 2013 19:13 eneyeseekay wrote:
Another subtle but potentially powerful feature I managed to implement was a rapid fire command that lets you issue any ability or spell at the speed of your keyboard's repeat rate. No clicking required, no moving you hand out of reach, no mouse buttons or modifiers required. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? I'm not kidding though, it works, and doesn't get in the way of any other bindings either. You can spam Infested Terrans, Creep Tumors, Corruption, Feedback, Snipes, all of the Build Basic/Advanced commands, anything, and it works for all races. Not sure how useful it will be, but *shrug*...I think it's a cool feature I've never seen before.
I started a discussion on TheCore thread about this, and:
On May 01 2013 06:29 Borskey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:24 JaKaTaK wrote:This is kind of blowing my mind right now. Kind of afraid to try it I feel like as soon as blizzard realizes what they've done they'll patch it. I'm pretty sure your APM spikes SUPER high when you use it, just like with the scroll-wheel trick. It would absolutely look like cheating on any replay.
I don't think this would end very well. :/
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Hahah, yes... But perhaps if Blizzard takes a took at that "exploit", they'll make other small changes, hopefully one that lets us move around modifier keys; the number one woe of hotkey tinkerers. It's been an issue for a long time, and right now, you need to use a registry hack to change them around in Windows (illegal in a tournament setting). I understand the mouse wheel thing, but it took some careful thought when I implemented this. It requires actual keystrokes, and is 100% not dependent on nonstandard hardware so you can use it as long a you have a keyboard and convenient bindings. Doesn't Snipe have a cooldown now anyway, and that was to big issue with it? Transfuse also has a cooldown as well, so it can't have a similar effect in that it keeps big targets alive rather than killing them like Snipe used to.
I brought that idea to NinjuryJ a couple weeks ago (he's a developer of TheCore), and at that point it seemed out of reach or just did not appear to work. But after a good amount of testing, I'm happy to say it's in there and works great! It requires one extra keystroke (removes the need to click though), and there's a short delay because of your keyboard repeat delay, so perhaps it's not as scary as it sounds.
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That's the thing. I set my keyboard delay as low as possible so I can fill up my production as fast as possible. Even default is very risky, though.
This is how much it types in about one second: hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
And at default: hhhhhhhhhhhhhh
That's 27 at my speed and 14 at default. 1620 APM and 840 APM, respectively. I'm not even taking into account the delay for the keyboard to start repeating. If I slow it down to something reasonable (I think about 450 APM would be the max justifiable), then I can't spam anything without unnecessarily tiring out my fingers.
I really just don't want you to get anybody banned. Please put up a big warning next to the download if you go through with this.
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On May 01 2013 09:06 Antylamon wrote:
I really just don't want you to get anybody banned. Please put up a big warning next to the download if you go through with this.
This is no different than keeping a key depressed when spamming drones for example. Surely you don't think that Blizzard will actually ban someone for keeping their finger on a key. At worst, this is an unintended side effect to Blizzard's hotkey customisation in which case it will just be patched and you won't get to use it anymore.
It can be beneficial to certain spells to use this, but I can hardly see it as game braking as you still need to target most spells.
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Details regarding the new change to be added to all versions of Fleet keys for the big overhaul.
Rapidfire Feature
I did extensive testing last night with this feature and here's what I've determined, summed up by race, in a unit-by-unit list:[list]
PROTOSS
+ Show Spoiler +- Warpgates. When used with the rapidfire feature, they adhere to the same limitations that other races experience when using a keyboard's repeat rate for queuing/morphing. Warping in units in the mid and late game can be done very quickly depending on the amount of Warpgates you own. The big limitation is that if you plan on warping in different types of units using the rapidfire feature, there will be a short delay between queuing different units, so it's not not usable in every Warp-in situation and hard to actually abuse in any meaningful way. Warping in one unit off of many gates is sped up dramatically though, so that's pretty cool!
I feel that this is actually fair. This levels the playing field for late game Protoss players who chose gateway-heavy compositions, and reduces needless repetition tied to a mechanic that is supposed to facilitate the concept of "instant reinforcement". It allows you to operate in some ways similar to that of Zerg production because of the benefits of repeat rate and repeat delays, but again, is limited to producing different unit types because of repeat delay.
- Nexus. Chronoboosting a lot of things at once becomes much quicker, but if you're keeping up with your macro, there's no immediate benefit gained from the rapidfire feature. A great way to dump Chrono energy. Watch out for Chornoboosting the same structure though, as you'll just waste energy that way.
- High Templar. Feedback. This spell really shines with the rapidfire feature. You can cast it quick, but relatively uncontrollably (much like ITs). Follows the same rules as Snipe though, in that you need a lot of HT's to make super-effective use of the rapidfire feature. Psi Storm remains a surgical spell in that you can't afford to waste them, so it remains mostly unaffected by the rapidfire feature. Morphing Archons remains the same, as its an ability that already reaps the benefits of your keyboard's repeat rate.
- Phoenix. Graviton Beam. You can have some fun with this without breaking anything in the game. You can spam the spell, and lift up many things. Watch out with this, as you won't be able to shoot anything if all of your Phoenixes are busy lifting unless you've got some other air-attacking support handy.
- Oracle. Doesn't benefit from the rapidfire feature much or at all. Nothing to really note here.
- Sentry. This unit doesn't really benefit too much from the rapidfire feature. Forcefields. You want to be surgical with them and spamming the spell is a good way to waste energy and lose the game. Hallucination. This is about the only good application of rapid fire for this unit, so that's good, as Sentries are already extremely powerful. Guardian Shield isn't relevant at all in this case.
TERRAN
+ Show Spoiler +- Orbital Commands. MULES can be rapidly called down, but you need a lot of energy and orbitals to really make great use of this. Still, it's cute if you want to dump energy when falling behind on macro, but won't affect a player who has solid macro mechanics. Calling down depots won't benefit much from the rapidfire feature. Scans can be spammed, but there's no reason to ever spam Scans due to wasteful casting past the first Scan, so that remains the same.
- Ghosts. When they are in excess numbers (at least 15-20, with near-full energy), the infamous Snipe exploit claws its way out of nerfing hell a bit. An unlikely situation, but still, a small possibility that isn't exactly realistic within the realm of standard play. EMP doesn't really benefit much from this (although the option is there to spam it), nor does Nuke.
- Raven. Seeker Missile. In large numbers, can benefit greatly from the rapidfire feature, provided that you actually need to send mass amounts of Seeker Missiles at the enemy. The potential to waste energy is still very much present, and aiming is tough, so that's fair. Autoturrets can be deployed faster, but they behave like structures, so you must be careful in your casting or you'll hit a lot of placement conflicts and only some will actually deploy. There's some skill involved there, with potential gain, so I like that. PDD's can be deployed faster, but treat them like Forcefields in that you don't want to spam them too much or at all.
- Battlecruisers. Yamato Cannon can be spammed to pretty good effect, so it's applicable and useful in a situation where you're looking to dump a ton of Yamato rounds into an opponent's army. Not a highly likely situation to be in, and only really appears when the game has gone on for far too long anyway. There's a lot of potential for overkill when using Yamato Cannon with the rapidfire feature.
ZERG
+ Show Spoiler +- Queens. Transfuse. You can rapidly cast this spell, but not too much faster than a competent human could because it has a significant amount of delay. There is also a tendency to over-Transfuse on units that aren't at risk of dying (but are still slightly damaged), so it's more of a judgement call that can go good, or can go pretty bad due to wasted energy. Spawn Larva works with this, but the uses aren't very applicable unless you did what I did and bound the rapidfire key to Spawn Larva's key (the S key in Fleet Keys Alloy, which is central to the layout). It lets me cut out the mouse clicks while performing the Backspace Inject method, which is a pretty big deal depending on who you ask. A neat little improvement, but extreeemely specific both in terms of implementation and usage. Creep tumors. Now this is where the rapidfire feature shines with Zerg. If you ever get to the point where you are spreading Creep with multiple tumors (5 or more I'd say), or need to dump a Queen's energy quickly by placing Creep Tumors, then you're in luck, because you can eliminate the need to click to propagate the Creep Tumors, and the process is sped up by a considerable amount. Not a broken feature, but potentially very beneficial. Just watch where you aim your cursor as you cast, because you can cast close to your tumors and that should make you feel sad.
- Infestor. Infested Terrans can be spawned at rapid speeds. It's more of a double-edged sword when used with the rapidfire key rather than an exploit. You can spend your energy quick, but the expenditure is extremely hard to regulate when using them in conjunction with Fungal Growth. So you can waste your energy very quickly, but somewhat...uncontrollably. Works really well when using Infested Terrans as a harass method, as you dump the energy quick. Fungal Growth interacts poorly with rapidire, as energy is precious, and you don't want to waste your Fungals. Neural Parasite isn't really viable in most situations where you'd want to make Infestors, and wouldn't benefit the use of rapidfire much or at all. Only good use may be vs mass Archons, Carriers, Battlecruisers, Thors and other massed Infestors I suppose?
- Viper. Abduct. You can cast it quickly, but you have much less control over what you Abduct, and Abduct has a high energy cost anyway so it's not really game-breaking and can end bad for the Zerg spamming it. Blinding Cloud doesn't benefit from rapidfire, much like how spammed Forcefields don't. Consume benefits greatly from the rapidfire feature if you have large amount of Vipers. It makes queuing the ability up much quicker when you have about 6 to 8 or more Vipers (the most you probably would want in a normal game).
- Corruptor. These guys are able to spam Corruption to great effect, so that's pretty damn cool. You waste cooldown and not energy so there's some amount of forgiveness there, but you still have to be careful with where you're actually casting the spell, as you can cast multiple Corrupts on single targets and that's wasteful. The rapidfire feature takes some tedium out of Corrupting single targets in exchange for some chaotic rapid targeting. With careful aiming, the rapidfire feature allows a player to use this underused and often-times lackluster ability to greater effect. Overall, I really like it. It does the unit some justice and promotes the use of its ability.
Some Key Points Overall- Snipe can be used in a similar but much more limited way as pre-nerf Snipe did. The potential to spam it still exists, but... It's not similar enough to pre-nerf Snipe to create issues.
- The rapidfire feature can help out in certain situations where you slip on your macro with your Nexus or Orbital Commands. A great way to dump that energy FAST.
- Enhances the speed of Creep Spreading by a considerable amount if you have 5 or more tumors on the go. Also is a great way to dump your Creep Queen's energy if she has a lot banked, as rapidly queuing Creep Tumors can be done much quicker.
- Lets you sacrifice accuracy and precision with many spells for a casting rate increase. Works like a trap in some ways, it works nicely in others. It depends on who is using the spells, and is kept mostly in check by the spell's balanced features like non-stacking and cooldown rules.
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On May 01 2013 16:44 MilExo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 09:06 Antylamon wrote:
I really just don't want you to get anybody banned. Please put up a big warning next to the download if you go through with this. This is no different than keeping a key depressed when spamming drones for example. Surely you don't think that Blizzard will actually ban someone for keeping their finger on a key. At worst, this is an unintended side effect to Blizzard's hotkey customisation in which case it will just be patched and you won't get to use it anymore. It can be beneficial to certain spells to use this, but I can hardly see it as game braking as you still need to target most spells.
They only thing Blizzard will do is implement delays, such as they did with Snipe and Infested Terrans. It's not illegal. I've been doing it since I developed the Base J layout right after hotkey customization was implemented. I use a programmable keyboard and it's legal and completely separate from hotkey customization within the game.
On April 30 2013 19:13 eneyeseekay wrote:
Ok, so DarkGrid. I think DarkGrid was an important step in custom hotkeys. It was (as far as I know) the first layout to throw out any semblance of familiarity for players, in exchange for efficiency. The arrangement of its keys reflected a lot of thought
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220164
I'd like to think I got some people thinking about the possibilities. Many of the ideas people are just coming to use now have been in use from the start. People just need to look around.
In response to posters above wanting to see someone winning tournaments with these customized layouts, I think they're missing the point. I don't need to convert Flash to a customized layout to validate the layout as good. I need to see an improvement in my own play. I remember the difficulty I had with standard layout before Base J. It's why I developed it. My inability to quickly get my fingers to click the correct keys (without looking down to make sure I'm hitting the right key), the limited number of control groups that were accessible, basically everything that pros spend hours training to develop, time which most others don't have, is the reason to use customized layouts. The best layout is what's best for any individual's situation. For me, Base J is far superior to any other, even if for no other reason than I'm not bound to the Ctrl, Alt, and Shift modifiers in their current locations. I have changed them to 'U', Mouse Back Button, and Spacebar, respectively. It's not LAN-legal, but I don't give a shit. I play from home, and it's 100% legal as far as Blizzard is concerned.
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@ Kaitlin
Wow, that's quite a setup. I seriously did not come across your thread in my relatively (thorough I thought) short travels. I had only begun thinking about changing my hotkeys at around that time, and that was well before I held any significant understanding of the game. I must say you were ahead of the curve for sure (unless there's some other layout I've never seen yet haha... Seriously, is there?).
Had I seen your thread before I definitely would have mentioned yours in there. It's an ambitious take on hotkey layouts that shouldn't be ignored either way. Even DarkGrid wasn't tournament legal at one point, so I wouldn't be surprised if your work had inspired a lot of the concepts behind it. I wish I could say I had previously drawn from/was inspired by other layouts, but the Backspace being bound to Spacebar thing is admittedly all I had taken from research, and that was a Zerg-only optimization. However, I was prompted to create Alloy after I decided Element wasn't flexible enough. Attack command on T and the trouble it caused some players really helped push me to make that decision (about, ohhh..6 pages ago? Haha).
I'll ask you the obvious question---why not update your thread?! You could put the hotkey file up for download and create a detailed graphic for it? I'm sure there would be a lot of people out there who don't plan on competing in offline events and would really enjoy the Base J layout. I knew there was something fishy about you, you seemed to know more about hotkeys than the vast majority of people I've seen on TL :p.
At some point in the future, I'd like to get a thread together that features all of the best/complete layouts that are floating around. If it ever was stickied like the recommended threads are, then that would be sick (although unlikely). The idea would be that we'd all have one main thread or "portal" for the different hotkey layouts linking to their own respective threads. I think it would be great for anyone looking to try out new things, and optimized layouts such as yours wouldn't get buried and unnoticed for so long. It would cut down on a lot of the time-consuming research people have to do, and it would serve as a great point of reference for players who just want hotkey ideas to adopt for their own setups.
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On May 04 2013 10:21 eneyeseekay wrote:
@ Kaitlin
Wow, that's quite a setup. I seriously did not come across your thread in my relatively (thorough I thought) short travels. I had only begun thinking about changing my hotkeys at around that time, and that was well before I held any significant understanding of the game. I must say you were ahead of the curve for sure (unless there's some other layout I've never seen yet haha... Seriously, is there?).
Had I seen your thread before I definitely would have mentioned yours in there. It's an ambitious take on hotkey layouts that shouldn't be ignored either way. Even DarkGrid wasn't tournament legal at one point, so I wouldn't be surprised if your work had inspired a lot of the concepts behind it. I wish I could say I had previously drawn from/was inspired by other layouts, but the Backspace being bound to Spacebar thing is admittedly all I had taken from research, and that was a Zerg-only optimization. However, I was prompted to create Alloy after I decided Element wasn't flexible enough. Attack command on T and the trouble it caused some players really helped push me to make that decision (about, ohhh..6 pages ago? Haha).
I'll ask you the obvious question---why not update your thread?! You could put the hotkey file up for download and create a detailed graphic for it? I'm sure there would be a lot of people out there who don't plan on competing in offline events and would really enjoy the Base J layout. I knew there was something fishy about you, you seemed to know more about hotkeys than the vast majority of people I've seen on TL :p.
At some point in the future, I'd like to get a thread together that features all of the best/complete layouts that are floating around. If it ever was stickied like the recommended threads are, then that would be sick (although unlikely). The idea would be that we'd all have one main thread or "portal" for the different hotkey layouts linking to their own respective threads. I think it would be great for anyone looking to try out new things, and optimized layouts such as yours wouldn't get buried and unnoticed for so long. It would cut down on a lot of the time-consuming research people have to do, and it would serve as a great point reference for players who just want hotkey ideas to adopt for their own setups.
Back in May 2012, I provided an updated thread here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=338610
but the responses didn't inspire me to continue providing updates. I decided instead, that I would just offer tips on various things that I've learned about hotkey customization in hotkey related threads.
Besides, Base J isn't so much a specific assignment of keys, but more of an implementation of some major ideas:
1. Rebinding the modifiers: Shift, Control, and Alt to more convenient locations.
2. Moving the hand to the right side of the keyboard, to provide access to more keys.
3. Layering, which is using Modifiers (mainly Alt) to reuse easy-access keys instead of requiring hand movement.
4. Minimum (reduced to none, actually) hand movement while providing access to 10 control groups and 8 camera locations.
5. Layering of the modifiers themselves, such as using Ctrl as 'Tab' and Alt as 'Drag Scroll'.
6. Commonality between the races so that playing Random or multiple races is simple. By this I mean Engineering Bay, Forge, and Evolution Chambers, having similar function, have the same hotkeys.
7. Reduction of hand stress, but this really goes with number 4. I don't think I've made this comment before, but I literally play with my keyboard in my lap (like Sheth), but I actually have my feet up on the table with my monitor. If you don't have to contort your hand, you can play with your keyboard in your lap and your feet up on your desk
I like the idea of having a stickied "portal" for hotkey knowledge and layouts. Someone with some moderator abilities should maybe make that happen. I must say, it does get a little old reading questions about hotkeys or threads with "revolutionary" ideas, like that Mousescroll Infested Terran "trick" a while ago, all of which I had already been using, and wrote about in my original thread, but people don't know because they don't know where to look. A stickied hotkey knowledge portal would solve that problem.
One other thing I'd like to mention is the lack of comment from "pros" on any of these layouts. One would think that there would be some acknowledgement that layouts we've created, even if pros stick with standard, do help casual players who don't have time to invest to accurately reach over to hit the stupid 'P' key, for example. To me, these layouts are magic for making gameplay more fun for casual players, which generates more interest in the pro scene, which generates more interest in "eSports", which they depend on for their livelihoods.
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On May 04 2013 11:24 Kaitlin wrote:
One other thing I'd like to mention is the lack of comment from "pros" on any of these layouts. One would think that there would be some acknowledgement that layouts we've created, even if pros stick with standard, do help casual players who don't have time to invest to accurately reach over to hit the stupid 'P' key, for example. To me, these layouts are magic for making gameplay more fun for casual players, which generates more interest in the pro scene, which generates more interest in "eSports", which they depend on for their livelihoods.
I see two potential reasons for this. One, pros actually do use layouts made by others, but they are not outspoken about it. All I know is that no pros I have seen use TheCore; I haven't seen anyone tilt their keyboard at a 45 degree angle at a big LAN tournament like MLG. Two, they stick with what works for them, as in custom layouts made either by scratch or loosely based on someone else's layout, including Blizzard-made layouts. From what I've heard, there are very few pros who actually use Standard or Classic. I mean seriously, Immortal on I?
Still, I am adamant in my opinion that optimized custom layouts can increase the overall skill level of pros, especially with micro, thus making games more exciting. For example, here's a fun fact about marine splitting: few pros bother to put in the time to do truly impressive and efficient splits because the time is better spent macroing. With much more efficient layouts, pros would be able to macro incredibly rapidly, thus freeing up so much more time to micro. Micro, of course, is infinitely more entertaining to spectators than macro.
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On May 05 2013 04:43 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 11:24 Kaitlin wrote:
One other thing I'd like to mention is the lack of comment from "pros" on any of these layouts. One would think that there would be some acknowledgement that layouts we've created, even if pros stick with standard, do help casual players who don't have time to invest to accurately reach over to hit the stupid 'P' key, for example. To me, these layouts are magic for making gameplay more fun for casual players, which generates more interest in the pro scene, which generates more interest in "eSports", which they depend on for their livelihoods. I see two potential reasons for this. One, pros actually do use layouts made by others, but they are not outspoken about it. All I know is that no pros I have seen use TheCore; I haven't seen anyone tilt their keyboard at a 45 degree angle at a big LAN tournament like MLG. Two, they stick with what works for them, as in custom layouts made either by scratch or loosely based on someone else's layout, including Blizzard-made layouts. From what I've heard, there are very few pros who actually use Standard or Classic. I mean seriously, Immortal on I? Still, I am adamant in my opinion that optimized custom layouts can increase the overall skill level of pros, especially with micro, thus making games more exciting. For example, here's a fun fact about marine splitting: few pros bother to put in the time to do truly impressive and efficient splits because the time is better spent macroing. With much more efficient layouts, pros would be able to macro incredibly rapidly, thus freeing up so much more time to micro. Micro, of course, is infinitely more entertaining to spectators than macro.
I've heard soooo little from pros & their custom layouts. I'm sure most of them make a couple changes here and there to make up for the added features that SC2 introduced over Brood War's hotkeys (the setup many veteran pros seem to be used to). I'm not sure if it's more so a matter of being cemented to Brood War hotkeys, a simple lack of interest, or players just generally being unaware until it's too late and they've learned Standard. Interviewing pros on the topic is the only real way to find this stuff out I think.
The few things I could dig up in a short amount of time was CatZ showing off his, Day[9]'s video regarding the topic, Artosis' video (mentions what Nony was doing with his and how they discussed the topic), and Lowko showing off his. I am sure there are more articles and videos I could find with some more extensive searching. I know there are slight modifications here and there among many of the pros' layouts, but I don't see anyone showing off layouts similar to the ones that Kailin, Jak, FoxyMayhem and I are showing. None of the examples I found even comes close.
Imagine if Leenock, MC, Leenock, Flash, etc was like "Well here's my layout, and the hotkey file" and they turn out to be something so crazy & efficient? In a situation like that, I can see their layouts being adopted by people in a similar way that people copy builds, but again, we don't see much from pros regarding the topic.
On a fun side note, I just re-installed Diablo 2/LOD, and just finished making a (close as possible) Fleet Keys adaptation for it. It's pretty cool. I wish I had this setup when I poured my first 100000000 or so hours into it. PvP would have been much more different, that's for sure.
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Hello
Those key layouts are awesome, however I encountered two problems using Alloy :
-In the zerg campaign (with campaign zerg alloy), the evolved strains of units seem to have a wrong shortcut in the larva evolve menu : actually they revert to the base "Standard" template, so evolved zerglings are Z (like overlords), evolved roaches are R, et caetera.
-Also, can you please tell me the name recognised by the program for extra mouse buttons, so that I can add them directly to the custom hotkey txt files?
I'm trying to set my two extra mouse buttons to attack and hold respectively, but I can't set these buttons in the game menu : it seems Starcraft doesn't recognise the extra mouse buttons in the game, and I'd like to enter them as hotkeys directly in the .txt custom files to esee if it works that way.
(Incidentally, I used a autohotkey scripts for this in WoL, allowing me to use ExtraMouse Button 2 as and attack+click command, but this script doesn't work since I upgraded to HotS. Does anyone have a solution for that?)
Many thanks.
Apylam
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How long does it take to switch from standard to this?
Also is it worth it once its done cause youll play better?
Thanks!
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On May 10 2013 05:20 apylam wrote:
Hello
Those key layouts are awesome, however I encountered two problems using Alloy :
-In the zerg campaign (with campaign zerg alloy), the evolved strains of units seem to have a wrong shortcut in the larva evolve menu : actually they revert to the base "Standard" template, so evolved zerglings are Z (like overlords), evolved roaches are R, et caetera.
-Also, can you please tell me the name recognised by the program for extra mouse buttons, so that I can add them directly to the custom hotkey txt files?
I'm trying to set my two extra mouse buttons to attack and hold respectively, but I can't set these buttons in the game menu : it seems Starcraft doesn't recognise the extra mouse buttons in the game, and I'd like to enter them as hotkeys directly in the .txt custom files to esee if it works that way.
(Incidentally, I used a autohotkey scripts for this in WoL, allowing me to use ExtraMouse Button 2 as and attack+click command, but this script doesn't work since I upgraded to HotS. Does anyone have a solution for that?)
Many thanks.
Apylam
Hey thanks for finding out the campaign error. I began going through each layout file to make sure everything is up to snuff for the thread overhaul (progress had been delayed, but I'm back at it). I didn't get through the campaign files yet, but I will definitely be making changes to to the file you pointed out.
Now for adding hotkey bindings through text editing. This is an area I know very little about, as I edit the bindings in-game, and did not include mouse button bindings by default. I occasionally look through the files when a conflict arises that needs fixing, as its easier to just use notepad's search function to identify them. I can get back to you on that though, as I have a mouse with side buttons hanging about; one could probably just assign a binding with their mouse buttons and gather the variable from that. I do know one thing though, you can't assign the Unit Commands to mouse clicks, if that's what you were trying (I haven't tried it with the side mouse buttons though). Out of curiosity, what kind of mouse are you using?
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On May 10 2013 05:29 prOxySC2 wrote:
How long does it take to switch from standard to this?
Also is it worth it once its done cause youll play better?
Thanks!
If you hop into a custom game, you can learn the layout much quicker. If I were to guess how long it would take a player to get relatively used to it, I would say no more than 5 - 10 practice games to be adequate with it, and from there it should be fine. It depends a lot on how familiar you are with Grid's binding patterns and the game's Command Cards, which are much more simple than learning Standard's. It also depends on how much of your current muscle memory needs to be over-written too. For example, if you're a GM and you switch, you may require a bit more time than a newer player because you are so used to another binding pattern. Unit_test_map (you can search for it through custom game search on bnet) is great for getting the feel of using spells/abilities, so I'd recommend trying the hotkeys out on that first, and then a few longer macro games in a custom game. Alloy's "Smart Key" feature cuts down on a lot of the work required to memorize your most used abilities anyway, so there's a lot of forgiveness in using Alloy. This feature is only available for Protoss & Terran; Zerg has other advantages, but implementing it with Zerg is also possible. Once you are used to Q,W,E and A,S & D, then you've adapted to the most-used keys for Alloy (the version I recommend).
I can't say that you'll necessarily play better, because your ability to make decisions and the knowledge you have of the game don't correlate with your hotkey layout, and they are major components of "better play". But! I can tell you that your in-game actions will be easier and faster when compared to someone using Standard, Grid, and possibly other layouts given Fleet Keys' ease of use and low learning curve. It's much more simple to grasp than the basic layouts, as well as other advanced layouts that exist, so the added ease and speed very well may give you that edge you want. No one in their right mind can promise that you'll be overall better though, but having a great hotkey layout that clicks with you is a major advantage.
Some of the new details are not up for people read right now, as I am working on redoing this thread. I also made updates to the offline files last night. I added better alternate bindings and the 100% legal (for now--*fingers crossed*) "Rapidfire" feature, and various little error cleanups. Needless to say, the new thread will take a bit more time, so take what info you can from this post. I'm just one guy, so the work is coming slow and steady. Everyone should have access to all of the new files tomorrow--they'll replace the current ones that are up for use now.
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ForwardMouseButton
BackMouseButton
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On May 10 2013 13:05 Kaitlin wrote:
ForwardMouseButton
BackMouseButton
Hey thanks a lot!
I'm kind of curious myself, how would the extra buttons, like that of this mouse look like in a text file?
Do you know of any complete lists of text files that include each possible hotkey variable? I found a lot for things like map modifiers and things like disabling creep and whatnot, but never a full hotkey variable list. Not yet anyway..
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Why, thanks a lot every one.
I play with an Asus ROG mouse, with two extra buttons (one used for forward and the other backward in Windows).
I'm trying to get these buttons to act as the attack and hold command, but they aren't working ingame : I can't bind them, and I can't use them when writing the binding directly...
A full list of hotkeys and commands would be great. A shame Blizzard does absolutely no help to their customers for that...
Apylam
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On May 10 2013 13:44 eneyeseekay wrote:Hey thanks a lot! I'm kind of curious myself, how would the extra buttons, like that of this mouse look like in a text file? Do you know of any complete lists of text files that include each possible hotkey variable? I found a lot for things like map modifiers and things like disabling creep and whatnot, but never a full hotkey variable list. Not yet anyway..
I don't know of a complete list, but given a particular mouse with buttons you want to check, just create a profile based off Standard, so you get a clean text file to start with, and use each button to recall a control group. Then you can check the file and see what the game has assigned to recall those control groups.
I'm not sure with something like the Naga, that all those buttons even register with the game. If that's the case, I'm pretty sure the mouse is programmable, and you can alternatively assign each button to something on the keyboard that you won't use in your setup. Then the game will be "tricked" into thinking it's receiving keyboard presses when it's really re-programmed mouse buttons. It's how I get the mouse scroll wheel to be recognized.
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On May 10 2013 19:59 apylam wrote:
Why, thanks a lot every one.
I play with an Asus ROG mouse, with two extra buttons (one used for forward and the other backward in Windows).
I'm trying to get these buttons to act as the attack and hold command, but they aren't working ingame : I can't bind them, and I can't use them when writing the binding directly...
A full list of hotkeys and commands would be great. A shame Blizzard does absolutely no help to their customers for that...
Apylam
Solution:
In your mouse driver, assign those two mouse buttons to something like '/' and '*' on the numeric keypad. Then, in game, assign '/' and '*' to Attack and Hold Position. That will work. Starcraft is a little finicky about what you can assign to certain things on the command card, for some reason.
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On May 10 2013 22:48 Kaitlin wrote:
Solution:
In your mouse driver, assign those two mouse buttons to something like '/' and '*' on the numeric keypad. Then, in game, assign '/' and '*' to Attack and Hold Position. That will work. Starcraft is a little finicky about what you can assign to certain things on the command card, for some reason.
Thanks for the help Kaitlin.
However, I don't seem to have a special driver installed :
The Mouse menu of my settings panel, as well as the peripheral manager menu, only show "Mouse HID" and a regular Windows driver, which doesn't give me an option to modify what the mouse buttons input ; (While there are many options for the touchpad in the same menu, for instance). I didn't find a way to configure these inputs.
Nevermind that, I had uninstalled the driver a while ago... reinstalled it. The driver allows for simple keybinds and macros. I made it work, and it's pretty confortable.
I was using a simple Autohotkey script to do the mouse button configuration, but the scripts don't seem to work ever since I upgraded to HotS...
I was using the script to have the extrabutton input "Attack" then "Left click", allowing an extra mouse button to work like the right mouse button, except that the command issued was move-attack rather than move. I find this pretty confortable to play. Does anyone know a way to have autohotkey scripts work in HotS?
Apylam
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On May 10 2013 13:44 eneyeseekay wrote:Hey thanks a lot! I'm kind of curious myself, how would the extra buttons, like that of this mouse look like in a text file? Do you know of any complete lists of text files that include each possible hotkey variable? I found a lot for things like map modifiers and things like disabling creep and whatnot, but never a full hotkey variable list. Not yet anyway..
If you have trouble finding out a hotkey variable, make a new hotkey system from scratch and change that individual hotkey to something new then open it in notepad++. It's how I find any that I'm missing.
(notepad++ is awesome for text modifying hotkeys as it notifies you of changes made as you go)
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@Kaitlin
So with something like a Razer Naga you would need to rely on tricking the game to make use of your side buttons? I know that you said before that you aren't worried about tournaments, but do you know if organizers allow the use of mouse drivers like that or even take them into account? I'm always thinking about including the use of side mouse buttons, but the details of all that (when it comes to tournaments) seem very blurry.
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All right. Hotkey files are all uploaded and done for now; any fixes will be done at a later date unless it is an absolutely serious issue. If anyone wants to correct errors themselves, then by all means..
Here's the link, it's also on the front page in each download section:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a34d7t3iq6hwpeq/xE4ZRyBxDU
NOTABLE CHANGES:
 Rapidfire Feature properly incorporated by binding it to the S key location in Alloy layouts and the X key in Element. Annnnnyways.....Use it wisely...Or don't..*shrug*. In case you don't know by now, this lets you spam any ability by holding the Rapidfire key down. Works great for Creep spreading, Infested Terrans spam, lightning-quick Warp-ins, mass Sniping, etc. Yuuuup. It Suurre is cooowul.
Massive Backspace Injection Optimization (No more clicking Hatcheries!) - This was achieved by mapping the Rapidfire key to Spawn Larva's key alternatively. With this (in Alloy), you only have to press: Caps Lock->S->S+SpaceBar, and repeat S+Spacebar for each additional Hatchery. It's always good practice to add a Hold Position command to the end of each cycle as well. In Alloy, it's W, so there's no reason not to, as it's right above your Spawn Larva key, and your fingers will most likely be heading in that direction next anyway.
Camera Location Injects (AKA Layered Injects) - I got sick of hearing about how awesome it was and how it's better than the Backspace method. Zerg players can enjoy the best of both worlds with these keystrokes: Queens->Spawn Larva Ability->Hold Shift+Hold Alt->A+Click->S+Click->D Click->Etc. You can do this for up to 8 bases depending on where your cameras are. The majority of the keystrokes are falling finger/rolling actions, so it's a lot faster than it looks on paper, and possibly even faster than when used in other layouts (I can't confirm this, but it feels great and is quick regardless). In Alloy, it looks like: Caps Lock+S->Shift+Alt->Aclick->Sclick->Dclick, and so on. This was always a possibility in Fleet Keys, but it was never really explained. So there you go; more Inject options! The two best in my opinion.
Refined Smart Key - Added many more default bindings to the "Smart Key", and even made building Pylons and Depots easier as a result. Pretty cool. Double-tapping Space Bar will now Queue up a Pylon or Depot. Not amazing, but it ties in well with the whole Smart Key = Macro abilities relationships that currently exist. Also features default bindings for popular upgrades, and some other commands that normally force a player to reach down to Z (example being Transform to Warp Gate command). When in doubt, hit Space Bar. If you're still in doubt, make a custom binding for you that makes more sense.
Improved Alternative Bindings - Added some better alternative bindings to unit production commands that fall on R and T. Where possible, I bound those R and T units to A and S to cut back on reaching around uncomfortably. Who knows how they will behave in Legacy of the Void, but honestly, I'll deal with that when the time comes. It's only an alternate binding anyway. Propagate Creep Tumor is also alternatively bound to the Rapidfire key to facilitate Creep spread in the most efficient way I've seen yet while using a keyboard. Don't take my word for it though; try it out for yourself.
We're one day closer to having an infinitely better thread! Almost at the home stretch!
Edit: If you have both campaign and multiplayer hotkey files in your profiles folder, the game may give you a conflict message. I know that each layout works in their respective game modes, but they don't behave quietly when out of game. The layouts work, that's the important part. Campaign has some bindings I can't change yet (they're locked away, and not reachable via the UI editor) so fixing that will be put on hold.
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On May 13 2013 18:31 eneyeseekay wrote:
@Kaitlin
So with something like a Razer Naga you would need to rely on tricking the game to make use of your side buttons? I know that you said before that you aren't worried about tournaments, but do you know if organizers allow the use of mouse drivers like that or even take them into account? I'm always thinking about including the use of side mouse buttons, but the details of all that (when it comes to tournaments) seem very blurry.
I'm about 99% sure ( hard to say absolutely that something you haven't seen doesn't exist ) that only the fairly standard two extra side buttons are recognized as they are by the game. Without "tricking" the game, you can't even bind scroll forward and scroll back, unfortunately. So, yeah, using a mouse like the Naga, you would assign what each button is within the mouse driver, then that is what Starcraft 2 sees. Now, coincidentally, I just bought a Razer Naga Hex yesterday. There are 6 side buttons instead of 12 on the Naga. The buttons, by default are simply the numbers 1 through 6. If those numbers were a part of my hotkey layout already, I would reprogram the mouse so those buttons were 6 buttons (keyboard keys) that aren't used in the layout. So, at least with the Naga Hex, not even the mouse recognizes them as mouse buttons, but the exact same thing as pressing 1-6 on my keyboard. As far as tournaments, obviously online tournaments aside, because they aren't going to sent layout auditors to your home, I checked MLG's rules around the time I created my layout. My recollection is that they didn't permit custom profiles, which is what it would take to rebind such things. Personally, I think this is a bit of a limitation, as it's perfectly fine as far as Blizzard is concerned, but I can see how a tournament organizer would see the time it takes to deal with custom profiles for each player on each computer they play at to be detrimental to the running of the tournament. That's very unfortunate, because knowing that, then anybody with aspirations of playing in such offline tournaments will never adopt certain custom layouts because of the uncertainty of tournament rules.
Did you mention the Naga because that is what you use ? Like I said, I just purchased the Naga Hex yesterday, and I'm concerned that so many buttons negatively affects the actual movement of the mouse, let alone if there were 12 buttons like the Naga. Can you or anyone speak to playing Starcraft with either the Naga or the Naga Hex ? I have two weeks to return it if I can't make a go of it.
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@kaitlin
I don't use a Naga Hex myself, I use a plain ol' Abyssus and a blue switch Das. Abyssus is a nice basic mouse, no complaints yet. My new keyboard is pretty wacky though. I Just got a QuickfireTK with red switches. It's super portable, so I use it with the Abyssus on the go. I Filled my keycaps with even amounts of clear silicone rubber ($3.52 per tube, used only one) and now it feels like a dream to use. It doesn't bottom out, and it's dead silent (as far as mechanical keyboards are concerned). The keys stop soon after the switches' hit their actuation points so I don't waste as much motion when I'd normally bottom out, it's a really great mod. It does take a lot of time and careful attention, but I don't like rubber O-rings or landing pads (not to mention their steep price).
Back to mouses; I was talking to a guy who mentioned using a Hex about a month ago who plays SC2 as well. I could ask him what he thinks about it, as I have no experience using it, I only used it as an example. Hopefully he will respond.
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On May 14 2013 00:05 eneyeseekay wrote:
@kaitlin
I don't use a Naga Hex myself, I use a plain ol' Abyssus and a blue switch Das. Abyssus is a nice basic mouse, no complaints yet. My new keyboard is pretty wacky though. I Just got a QuickfireTK with red switches. It's super portable, so I use it with the Abyssus on the go. I Filled my keycaps with even amounts of clear silicone rubber ($3.52 per tube, used only one) and now it feels like a dream to use. It doesn't bottom out, and it's dead silent (as far as mechanical keyboards are concerned). The keys stop soon after the switches' hit their actuation points so I don't waste as much motion when I'd normally bottom out, it's a really great mod. It does take a lot of time and careful attention, but I don't like rubber O-rings or landing pads (not to mention their steep price).
Back to mouses; I was talking to a guy who mentioned using a Hex about a month ago who plays SC2 as well. I could ask him what he thinks about it, as I have no experience using it, I only used it as an example. Hopefully he will respond.
Yeah, please do. A while back when thinking about the original naga, I dreamt of so many accessible keys, but in a game like Starcraft, mouse movement is more important than other games like WoW where more keys helps more. So, I didn't get a Naga. When I saw the Hex, I thought 6 would be much more manageable, but I'm not sure. The entire feeling of the mouse is very different from the DeathAdder I've gotten used to.
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Hello everyone
I'm reminded of something :
In warcraft III, the Warkeys program was a GUI custom keys file generator, which allowed you two things :
-completely remapping your hotkeys (cool)
-moving the place of icons in the grid to put them as you'd like (awesome). This was done through commands in the Customkeys.txt files that Warcraft III used to move icons locations.
For example, a ghoul icon (Q by default) could be added with th X0Y1 command to put it in the A spot, ad with a A hotkey (QWERTY keyboard).
My question is, is this possible in Starcraft II? As it would allow to put icons with modified hotkeys by Alloy in their correct spot on the grid :
the attack and hold command could be put on the second row, the extra unit that were prviously bound to R and T could be placed on their new hotkeys... The result would be that the new, better hotkeys, would match the location of their hotkey on the grid. This would make it in my opinion way easier and clearer to learn the alloy hotkey, and make it way logical.
Anyway, for the mouse question :
I have a basus ROG mouse with forward and back buttons, which i find good as far as the balance between ease of mouse move and number of buttons is concerned.
I tried to change the keys my extra mouse buttons send, as Kaitlin said (I put O and P for forward and back), and set O to attack and P to hold. However, nothing for it : the game still desn't recognise when I push these buttons.
Kaitlin, you mentioned earlier this trick worked for you?
thanks for the feedback.
Apylam
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Sorry for asking in this thread but it was kinda mentioned. Are the use of side buttons on the mouse illegal at LANs?
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@apylam
The fact that I can't actually physically move the keys in Alloy up a row is definitely annoying, as it's very simple when playing with Alloy in-game, but it looks somewhat chopped-up when you look at the Command Cards because of the waste space Blizzard's Command Cards feature. Warpgate units are the main offender that comes to mind. Despite Alloy being vastly superior to Grid, it actually appears to be more complex because of those reasons I mentioned. Believe me, if I could I would!
I didn't play a whole lot of WC3 (played way too much D2/LOD back then), but I did look into Warkeys.
This doesn't seem to be anything Blizzard was involved in, so would it be considered a third party modification? If there was a "Starkeys" program available, it would cross a line with Blizzard would it not?
I'm all for additional customization options with hotkeys, so I'd like to see it happen. Who knows, maybe they'll add Grid/command Card editing in a later patch?
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On May 16 2013 03:16 Thor.Rush wrote:
Sorry for asking in this thread but it was kinda mentioned. Are the use of side buttons on the mouse illegal at LANs?
I'm 99% sure if you're using the side mouse buttons 1 and 2 on their own without driver modifications, it's completely legal anywhere, but with driver modifications in tournaments it's very hit-and-miss (because of varying rules and the fact that you're installing/modifying third party software on their machines).
For online events I believe there aren't any limits to how you use your mouse on your own PC, but I'm sure there are exploits out there somewhere that would prove me wrong.
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eneyeseekay
While the warkeys program was third party, its only use was generating a customkeys file easily ; it did no keyboard hacking or anything.
The grid icons moving was done through a command added to every ability in the customkeys.txt files, which specified the position of the icon on the grid : (examples below)
However, these commands seem vastly different from the ones Starcraft II is using. Did blizzard ever mention the ability to move icons like in Warcraft III?
About the mouse : Am I the only one unable to use extra mouse buttons?
examples :
[plcl] game engine's name of the ability
Tip=(|cffffcc00Z|r) Purchase Lesser Clarity Potion tooltip for mouse-over of the icon on the grid
Hotkey=Z well, hotkey
Buttonpos=1,0 command for button position on the grid
[acd2]
Tip=(|cffffcc00Z|r) Abolish Magic
UnTip=|cffc3dbffRight-click to activate auto-casting.|r
Hotkey=Z
Buttonpos=1,2
Unbuttonpos=1,2
[nfsh]
Tip=(|cffffcc00E|r) Hire Forest Troll Shadow Priest
Hotkey=E
Buttonpos=2,0
[AHtb]
Tip=(|cffffcc00A|r) Boule de foudre [niveau 1],(|cffffcc00A|r) Boule de foudre [niveau 2],(|cffffcc00A|r) Boule de foudre [niveau 3]
Researchtip=(|cffffcc00A|r) Apprendre Boule de foudre [niveau %d]
Hotkey=A
Researchhotkey=A
Buttonpos=0,2
Researchbuttonpos=0,0
[rhra]
Tip=(|cffffcc00Z|r) Ameliorer en Poudre noire,Ameliorer en Poudre raffinee,Ameliorer en Poudre enchantee,Upgrade Refined Gunpowder,Upgrade to Imbued Gunpowder,(|cffffcc00Z|r) Upgrade Refined Gunpowder,(|cffffcc00Z|r) Upgrade to Imbued Gunpowder
Hotkey=Z,Z,Z
Buttonpos=1,0
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On May 16 2013 02:44 apylam wrote:
Anyway, for the mouse question :
I have a basus ROG mouse with forward and back buttons, which i find good as far as the balance between ease of mouse move and number of buttons is concerned.
I tried to change the keys my extra mouse buttons send, as Kaitlin said (I put O and P for forward and back), and set O to attack and P to hold. However, nothing for it : the game still desn't recognise when I push these buttons.
Kaitlin, you mentioned earlier this trick worked for you?
thanks for the feedback.
Apylam
If you made the 2 buttons on your mouse to be O and P and the game doesn't recognize them like that, I would suggest opening up Notepad or something similar and seeing what happens. Obviously if it doesn't work in Notepad, your mouse isn't programmed as you thought. Let's assume Notepad shows the O and P when those buttons are pressed. Then I can only suggest double checking that you have the correct hotkey layout active and it does have O and P setup for attack and hold. The only additional step to check is perhaps some hotkey conflict. What I generally do to test this is to assign, in your case, O as 'Recall Control Group 1'. Doing this will clear any other bindings set to O, and will highlight any conflicts that may have existed. Check the 'Unbound' tab to find anything that was bound to 'O'. Repeat the process for P. Of course, after this test, you will either want to cancel the hotkey change or change it back. If binding O or P to the control group unbound other bindings, that will probably solve your problem.
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Are those awesome looking master sheets available for Alloy?
edit: Or is that even necessary? Sorry, I'm pretty new to SC2.
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On May 16 2013 06:47 Quadstriker wrote:
Are those awesome looking master sheets available for Alloy?
edit: Or is that even necessary? Sorry, I'm pretty new to SC2.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a34d7t3iq6hwpeq/KS3e5eHEuF/Cheat_Sheets
Hey there, I finished up the new sheets for Alloy and Element last night. You can find them in the download links or the link above. There are also black & white versions available that you can crop either side and print out as well. They come in 1920x1080 format, so they fit nice and snug as a background wallpaper too.
Edit: For anyone wondering why I didn't stick with the 3D keyboard style for the sheets, my reason is that it was extremely time consuming and difficult to make small edits to. Although they looked pretty good, the layout of the sheets themselves didn't quite work for everyday viewing purposes. When revamping the thread, I felt a better sheet layout was also important, so I decided on what you see now in the download folder.
Since I have multiple keyboard type support this time (QWERTY, AZERTY, Dvorak at the moment), I only display the cheat sheets in QWERTY because it is widely used and the bindings don't change positions for other keyboards anyway. It's also a million times easier to edit only a single image.
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Hi i have a question. I downloaded the allow version to use in the campaign(HotS_Campaign_FK_Alloy_QWERTY_ZERG.SC2Hotkeys).
And the hotkeys are ok in the options but in the game it doesnt work, actually it show me others hotkeys but this also do nothing.
This happen in the second mission of the campaign with kerrign abilities.
Could u please help me?
And ty soo much for this hotkey system >(
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@jr_asthar: I had the same problem with my custom hotkey setup is HotS. Just start the campaign and then change the hotkeys. It is as if StarCraft somehow keeps seperate hotkey setps for different game types. Changing the hotkey in the game type tends to fix this.
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On May 17 2013 23:20 jr_asthar wrote:
Hi i have a question. I downloaded the allow version to use in the campaign(HotS_Campaign_FK_Alloy_QWERTY_ZERG.SC2Hotkeys).
And the hotkeys are ok in the options but in the game it doesnt work, actually it show me others hotkeys but this also do nothing.
This happen in the second mission of the campaign with kerrign abilities.
Could u please help me?
And ty soo much for this hotkey system >(
Hey there, you're welcome, and thanks for checking it out!
So, Command Cards in the campaign are hidden, meaning that can't be accessed through the in-game hotkey menu, and some are actually hardcoded to certain keys, a good example of this is Kerrigan's abilities in the first few missions. Despite me binding her abilties to A,S,D,F prior to playing the campaign, the game still used her abilities across the Q row. I wish this was just me being lazy and simply shrugging and saying "I dunno", but this is a problem on Blizzard's end, and there hasn't been a fix yet for it. It's frustrating for sure, but overall, most campaign hotkeys should work properly. There are some manual bindings I can make, and some I cannot, so I won't be going through that until work on the thread is complete.
Here's another instance of this happening. I am sure there are many more lurking about-- hopefully not too many though!
On May 10 2013 05:20 apylam wrote:
Hello
......
-In the zerg campaign (with campaign zerg alloy), the evolved strains of units seem to have a wrong shortcut in the larva evolve menu : actually they revert to the base "Standard" template, so evolved zerglings are Z (like overlords), evolved roaches are R, et caetera........
I briefly discussed this with JDub and SixtusTheFifth (a couple of the main contributors of TheCore), and after what was said, it seems like it's just a matter of waiting it out until Blizzard changes it unfortunately.
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On May 18 2013 01:56 MilExo wrote:
@jr_asthar: I had the same problem with my custom hotkey setup is HotS. Just start the campaign and then change the hotkeys. It is as if StarCraft somehow keeps seperate hotkey setps for different game types. Changing the hotkey in the game type tends to fix this.
Yes it keeps different sets of hotkeys depending on what game version you last loaded up. You can switch on a HotS layout, but unless you've gone and loaded up the campaign, the UI stays the same. I noticed that it will try to keep the multiplayer layouts available, so in turn your campaign files begin throwing up flags. This is also a bit of a pain because certain keys look like they're unbound and conflicting but they are really just trying to match themselves up with a set of hotkeys that isn't even present.
You can keep only the hotkey file you want to use in your hotkeys folder, and leave the others out until you decide to play the the mode. That way you don't have to see unbound keys that are actually configured for campaign.
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Ty soo much both of you for the quick answers well the campaign is not soo important.
Ty again for this amazing hotkey system
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I'm having the same issue as the user "Shane" posted about on 4/30. I'm trying to use "HotS_Multiplayer_FK_Alloy_QWERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN.SC2Hotkeys" on my HotS client, but anytime I save it to the hotkey folder & activate it (menu > options > hotkeys), none of the Terran/Protoss/Zerg hotkeys change and every single Global key becomes unbound. I even tried uninstalling my client & reinstalling thinking maybe there was an error somewhere in my files, but the same thing is happening. Is there any reason this may be happening? I've installed other hotkeys in the past to mess around with such as TheCore and didn't have this issue. Thanks & look forward to resolving the issue/playing around with this setup.
Edit: I also tried loading up a game & loading the hotkeys while in-game and it still shows all global keys as unbound.
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On May 22 2013 11:47 SC2Ascension wrote:
I'm having the same issue as the user "Shane" posted about on 4/30. I'm trying to use "HotS_Multiplayer_FK_Alloy_QWERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN.SC2Hotkeys" on my HotS client, but anytime I save it to the hotkey folder & activate it (menu > options > hotkeys), none of the Terran/Protoss/Zerg hotkeys change and every single Global key becomes unbound. I even tried uninstalling my client & reinstalling thinking maybe there was an error somewhere in my files, but the same thing is happening. Is there any reason this may be happening? I've installed other hotkeys in the past to mess around with such as TheCore and didn't have this issue. Thanks & look forward to resolving the issue/playing around with this setup.
Edit: I also tried loading up a game & loading the hotkeys while in-game and it still shows all global keys as unbound.
I downloaded the file I have up for use, and here's the result I get after plugging it into my hotkeys folder:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jjGzFfz.jpg)
Now you can see that there a few unbound keys there, but those are meant to be there. I realize that you said "every single Global key becomes unbound", but are you sure you didn't mean "a few"? If it's actually unbinding every one of your global keys, I think I know what's up.
Here's your solution, or at least, it was the one that solved Shane's problem (which sounds the same as yours). When you are going to download the file, click "Download" instead of "Save As". He made that mistake and ran into the same issue, so hopefully that helps!
Here is the difference between the files. I present to you, Save_As_Vs_Download! Quiver in horror and relief! (Yes, my background is comprised of many pink polkadots, don't judge!)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fEKWa3r.jpg)
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To many combo keys. Looks complicated. I mean combo for selecting control group? Triple combo for adding to control group?
I am pretty sure this will drop your apm significantly from even using the regular but fixed (locations F1-F8 and idle worker on §) layout. Even after getting used to it.
Just get a mouse with 4 side buttons and put 7-0 on them. Or move them to a more reachable spot.
To many keyboard layout threads these days. What I think people need are simple tips. Like put proxy pylon camera key on space, use backspace injects etc. I've personally never had any issue with vanilla after the fix mentioned in this post not that I ever have idle workers.
I've never felt any of my short comings as a player was due to a bad layout. Although a good mouse is pretty important. I recommend xai never tried the sensei but it's probably fine. A good keyboard might help but I think that's a lot less important than having a decent mouse. Btw be sure to read and act on http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.se/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html.
GL with your preparation and HF winning!
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On May 22 2013 15:24 eneyeseekay wrote:I downloaded the file I have up for use, and here's the result I get after plugging it into my hotkeys folder: Now you can see that there a few unbound keys there, but those are meant to be there. I realize that you said "every single Global key becomes unbound", but are you sure you didn't mean "a few"? If it's actually unbinding every one of your global keys, I think I know what's up. Here's your solution, or at least, it was the one that solved Shane's problem (which sounds the same as yours). When you are going to download the file, click "Download" instead of "Save As". He made that mistake and ran into the same issue, so hopefully that helps! Here is the difference between the files. I present to you, Save_As_Vs_Download! Quiver in horror and relief! (Yes, my background is comprised of many pink polkadots, don't judge!)
Excellent. Just downloading rather than 'save as' fixed this issue. Thanks for the quick response!
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On May 22 2013 21:07 SC2Ascension wrote:
Excellent. Just downloading rather than 'save as' fixed this issue. Thanks for the quick response!
Great! I'll add this info to the new thread look. I didn't think people would attempt to "Save As", but it's one less potential issue solved, sweet!
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I'm a complete sc2 noob (haven't played any multiplayer yet) and I've decided to use Fleet Keys instead of standard bindings. I have a couple of questions though:
1. When I log in the game tells me there are hotkey conflicts. Is this normal? It looks like there aren't any hotkeys set for "Evolve Chitinous Plating," "Research Corvid Reactor," and "Evolve Pathogen Glands." Have I downloaded Fleet Keys incorrectly?
2. Is there a way I can have the game automatically use the zerg hotkeys while I play zerg and the other hotkeys when I play protoss/terran?
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Much thanks for providing this layout. The grid layout 'clicked' for me from the start, as it is laid out similar to other games and 3D software so felt familiar, but certain things about it still irked me (mostly the use of the 'z' key). Alloy addresses that exact issue while keeping the general intuitiveness of grid so it was an instant no-brainer.
I really wanted to give TheCore a try because 200+ pages must mean something, but I use a Microsoft 'Comfort Curve 3000' keyboard which makes using the ctrl-shift combo via the thumb a bit more awkward than I think it is supposed to be (they are oversized from a normal keyboard). It also lacks the 'intuitive' factor - in the heat of the moment you can't recall an obscure command by thinking about it - you either know where it is or you don't. Sure, that would come with practice. With a grid/Alloy layout, you can make a decent guess!
Someone upthread I think asked if you're learning a new layout anyway, why wouldn't you go with TheCore right from the outset - as a new SC2 player, the above intuitiveness factor would be a big reason. As a newbie, TheCore is alien not just because of the unusal 'use the wrong side of the keyboard' factor, but because of the layout in general - it puts things in priority order. As a newbie, you most certainly have no idea about priority so the learning curve is steeper because you can't see the 'why' of certain choices until you have a deeper understanding of the game.
I only have two minor 'complaints' about Alloy:
* It is awkward to have 'Add to group' use shift-alt for Q-R, but only use shift for TAB. Same for CAPS LOCK vs. A-V. However, I don't think this is something Alloy can fix because you can't override the ALT-TAB function, for example. Unfortunate, as that has been my biggest stumbling block in adapting to Alloy.
* I'd like to see the original post updated with the latest links to the Alloy downloads (including the new cheatsheets), and the large changelog/guide that was posted on page 8. It took me a while to understand how to properly use the injecting features, for example, and I still don't think I properly understand how to use the 's' key for creep spread. Some of this is being a SC2 newbie in general, I know. It also wasn't until pretty deep in the thread that I realized what Alloy really was, and that it was the new hotness and to not bother with Element.
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@naxi:
1. A conflict warning I believe is normal if you have multiple templates present (though I'm not sure about those specific conflicts). It can be ignored without issue that I've seen.
2. No way to auto-flip between hotkeys. You just have to get real good and going into options and switching while your first worker is building if you're playing random...
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@daagar
Ah, too bad about the auto-switching, I guess doing it manually isn't such a big deal. Also, looks like you were right about the conflict warning, turns out the three abilities I mentioned had hotkeys, they just didn't show up in the hotkeys menu initially.
Thanks!
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[QUOTE]On May 28 2013 00:11 daagar wrote:
+ Show Spoiler + Much thanks for providing this layout. The grid layout 'clicked' for me from the start, as it is laid out similar to other games and 3D software so felt familiar, but certain things about it still irked me (mostly the use of the 'z' key). Alloy addresses that exact issue while keeping the general intuitiveness of grid so it was an instant no-brainer.
I really wanted to give TheCore a try because 200+ pages must mean something, but I use a Microsoft 'Comfort Curve 3000' keyboard which makes using the ctrl-shift combo via the thumb a bit more awkward than I think it is supposed to be (they are oversized from a normal keyboard). It also lacks the 'intuitive' factor - in the heat of the moment you can't recall an obscure command by thinking about it - you either know where it is or you don't. Sure, that would come with practice. With a grid/Alloy layout, you can make a decent guess!
Someone upthread I think asked if you're learning a new layout anyway, why wouldn't you go with TheCore right from the outset - as a new SC2 player, the above intuitiveness factor would be a big reason. As a newbie, TheCore is alien not just because of the unusal 'use the wrong side of the keyboard' factor, but because of the layout in general - it puts things in priority order. As a newbie, you most certainly have no idea about priority so the learning curve is steeper because you can't see the 'why' of certain choices until you have a deeper understanding of the game.
I only have two minor 'complaints' about Alloy:
* It is awkward to have 'Add to group' use shift-alt for Q-R, but only use shift for TAB. Same for CAPS LOCK vs. A-V. However, I don't think this is something Alloy can fix because you can't override the ALT-TAB function, for example. Unfortunate, as that has been my biggest stumbling block in adapting to Alloy.
* I'd like to see the original post updated with the latest links to the Alloy downloads (including the new cheatsheets), and the large changelog/guide that was posted on page 8. It took me a while to understand how to properly use the injecting features, for example, and I still don't think I properly understand how to use the 's' key for creep spread. Some of this is being a SC2 newbie in general, I know. It also wasn't until pretty deep in the thread that I realized what Alloy really was, and that it was the new hotness and to not bother with Element.
Hey, thanks for checking this out and even digging for info. Alloy has been something I was working on and updating off and on for a bit now, and fully incorporating it into the original thread meant re-doing the entire thing in a better way. As soon as I had a stable version of Alloy, I have been gradually adding/updating the file, and as of recently, including and updating the cheat sheets. The latest versions of Element and Alloy along with their cheat sheets are up for download, but the thread itself doesn't reflect the current state of the layouts just yet. This is all still a work in progress and is all still relatively new.
Early on I heard a lot of questions/comparisons to Fleet Keys (any version) and TheCore (still do, probably will for a while). The two layouts are designed so different on so many levels that directly comparing them leaves you wondering what exactly you're comparing to begin with. Comparing apples and oranges is a good but unfortunately cliche example. I like the ongoing development aspect of TheCore a lot, I like that there is a dedicated group of intelligent people working away at it all the time (so much progress has been in those many pages). When you made the comparison of Grid/Alloy to TheCore and mentioned the "guessing" part, you really summed up a lot about the two layouts. Prioritizing makes sense, but keeping things more simple and intuitive is important as well. I say it's important because you don't always learn in a vacuum, you don't always have time or the want to invest time in preparing/fully learning a layout before playing, and like many, do not start off with a lot of knowledge before hand. If you hopped into a game with Alloy or Element, you would only have to look at the Command Cards a few times until you started seeing the pattern, and like you said, began guessing right. It can easily click with people, give them the tools they need with some solid ideas, and send them on their way, while TheCore really trains you to play with prioritized keys and be proactive about learning every bit of the layout to squeeze the most out of the results of their data and testing. They do great work over in that thread, and I enjoy the large community aspect of it and seeing its progress. Comparing Element, or better yet, Alloy to TheCore always feels strange to me because they're so fundamentally different, and opinions can be drastically different depending on who you ask.
I'll tell you a few things that will also be in the refinished thread regarding Element and Alloy that might clear up some questions you and other may have.
Element, while not as "efficient" as Alloy, is a fantastic transitional layout. It's great for players just starting off without any game knowledge, who may only want to play at a strictly casual level with a decent layout, or more commonly, have a lack (but curiosity) of any Grid experience. Some may be happy and stay with Element, and some may like what Element offered them and they can step over to Alloy, while others go straight to Alloy (I would probably recommend that to most). There are many differences between the two, but if you're already familiar with Element, then learning Alloy feels like you're steadily trimming fat off of your game without completely flipping it upside down. From the start, I only wanted to have more options while keeping some solid amount of familiarity. 8 Camera Locations, 10 Control Groups, and other important functions along with some easy and basic keystrokes seemed like a good start. Alloy crunched it up further, and added even more perks. It is very much necessary for both to exist at this point.
To address your two complaints (many others may be wondering about this as well)--
1. Shift+Alt is used simply because it tells the player two things that Ctrl+Alt did not (which is the original way to add to Q-R). It basically says that Shift + Key is how you add to mostly everything else, Shift+Alt+Key is how you add to your hotkeys accessed with Alt+Key; it makes a lot of sense. The second reason is that you are using your ring, middle, and index fingers a lot. Ctrl+Alt+Key didn't allow many players to make continued use of these fingers, as it made you use your index finger to assign nearly all of the Q-R hotkeys, and that felt pretty bad. When using Shift+Alt+Key, you are able to use your thumb and pinky on the modifiers, while continuing on as normal with using your ring, middle and index fingers on Q-R.
2. I don't have a changelog properly documented right now, and I won't have one with the release of the redesigned thread, but I think I could put one together. Reducing the amount of info and shortening up the necessary stuff was on the top of my list when I started reworking all of this. There haven't been a ton of iterations, but I understand what you mean, and I think I could put something useful together in the future that serves as a decent changelog.
I am not sure if you've seen the new cheat sheets for download, but they contain some basic directions on how to perform Injects, including directions for the Backspace method, Mouseless Backspace method, and Camera (aka Layered) Injects. More detailed info can and will be added to the redesign, and in the end, hopefully a set of quick videos can be included to cut out all the heavy reading that the current thread is plagued with. I realize this response is becoming something just like that, but it's not mandatory to sift through like most of the OP should be. This is where the discussions go, so I'll use the space here to explain things and answer questions the best that I can. I'll end this by just saying that although you may be an SC2 newb, being proactive in other constructive ways is never a bad thing, especially if you enjoy it. Thanks again, and hopefully that post helped you and anyone else with similar concerns.
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Is the download link in the original post up to date?
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On May 28 2013 22:38 Tritone wrote:
Is the download link in the original post up to date?
Yup, any place where you see that red download link will take you to where you need to go. The top of the thread has the link that is the easiest to locate, but any that you find throughout the thread are also up to date.
When I make any big changes that people must know about I make a post regarding the update. It depends on what the issue is, but If I'm just fixing up little miss-binds here and there or anything very minor like that I just update the files and that's it. If a player notices an issue and I resolve it, I try to solve it and and post here to mention the fix.
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On May 28 2013 16:54 eneyeseekay wrote:
Hey, thanks for checking this out and even digging for info. Alloy has been something I was working on and updating off and on for a bit now, and fully incorporating it into the original thread meant re-doing the entire thing in a better way. As soon as I had a stable version of Alloy, I have been gradually adding/updating the file, and as of recently, including and updating the cheat sheets. The latest versions of Element and Alloy along with their cheat sheets are up for download, but the thread itself doesn't reflect the current state of the layouts just yet. This is all still a work in progress and is all still relatively new.
Of course! No rush. Alloy seemed fairly 'complete' as it is (since you have cheatsheets for it now), it just wasn't obvious from the first post that it was ready (and suggested). And now that I re-read the first post, I see most of this is covered in the FAQ. I must have stopped reading. Shame on me.
On May 28 2013 16:54 eneyeseekay wrote:
Comparing Element, or better yet, Alloy to TheCore always feels strange to me because they're so fundamentally different, and opinions can be drastically different depending on who you ask.
Remember though, noobs like myself want to jump in with "the best", despite there being no 'best' (or one-size-fits-all solution). Which is why I wanted to put in my 2c about why (and how!) Alloy did differ for others that were curious.
On May 28 2013 16:54 eneyeseekay wrote:
To address your two complaints (many others may be wondering about this as well)--
1. Shift+Alt is used simply because it tells the player two things that Ctrl+Alt did not (which is the original way to add to Q-R). It basically says that Shift + Key is how you add to mostly everything else, Shift+Alt+Key is how you add to your hotkeys accessed with Alt+Key; it makes a lot of sense. The second reason is that you are using your ring, middle, and index fingers a lot. Ctrl+Alt+Key didn't allow many players to make continued use of these fingers, as it made you use your index finger to assign nearly all of the Q-R hotkeys, and that felt pretty bad. When using Shift+Alt+Key, you are able to use your thumb and pinky on the modifiers, while continuing on as normal with using your ring, middle and index fingers on Q-R.
Ah, you may have misunderstood me here. I have absolutely no complaint about shift-alt - it is a very natural binding. I was merely stating that it is unfortunate that you can't use shift-alt-tab (to be consistent with shift-alt-q, shift-alt-w, etc.), and similarly for bindings that involve caps lock. This isn't anything Alloy can fix
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On May 29 2013 12:46 daagar wrote:
Remember though, noobs like myself want to jump in with "the best", despite there being no 'best' (or one-size-fits-all solution). Which is why I wanted to put in my 2c about why (and how!) Alloy did differ for others that were curious.
If you come to any more conclusions through your experience with Fleet Keys or other layouts I'd love to hear them. If I create a feedback section with quotes from other players, it may give those without much Fleet Keys experience a better idea of what to expect without having me feed them the info directly from my mouth. Avoiding my potentially biased side of of things is what I'd like to do if possible. Impressions straight from the other players is the best way in my opinion! If it means anything, Fleet Keys is not a business for me and I have no plans of crafting a brand or anything around it. It's not a business venture where I plan to gain popularity and eventually become a caster or significant community figurehead of some sort. I just want Fleet Keys to be a solid option for players throughout SC2's lifespan. Observations and opinions such as yours helps to either weed it out or solidify its existence, so more of that will surely help paint a more accurate picture in any case. Thank you for your two cents!
Yes, it's unfortunate that Alt+Tab can't be used together. The Alt+Tab interaction issue isn't something Alloy can fix at the moment, you're right about that. Given the choice and the ability to change it, I don't think I would. Adding Queens and Hatcheries (or Nexuses and CC's) has to be deliberate but easy to do often. It can't be too deliberate but it can't be too easy either, as miss-binding something like that can be game-breaking, so that's how I feel about those commands atm (firmly in the middle). Who knows, if something comes up that's amazing and works better without throwing people off, sure I'll consider incorporating it. I don't see that coming about until Blizzard adds more options for Ctrl+ and Shift+ commands though.
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So even though there's no "left handed" version of this setup, I'm gonna try out Alloy for Zerg with some modifications. I'm switching around the attack/patrol/stop/move commands, adding a "return resources" key for drones, switching spacebar to select idle workers and switching tilde to base camera. Standard for lefties sucks and on a Mac I can't eve get the function keys to work properly (even if I select "allow accessibility" or whatever in system preferences). So I'm really excited to switching to a layout that works better for lefties and has useable camera locations!
Thanks for your hard work, eneyeseekay.
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On May 30 2013 12:18 Tritone wrote:
So even though there's no "left handed" version of this setup, I'm gonna try out Alloy for Zerg with some modifications. I'm switching around the attack/patrol/stop/move commands, adding a "return resources" key for drones, switching spacebar to select idle workers and switching tilde to base camera. Standard for lefties sucks and on a Mac I can't eve get the function keys to work properly (even if I select "allow accessibility" or whatever in system preferences). So I'm really excited to switching to a layout that works better for lefties and has useable camera locations!
Thanks for your hard work, eneyeseekay.
If you're using Zerg, then Space Bar as Base Camera is the money spot. The Mouseless Backspace method and the regular Backspace method play quite heavily off of Space Bar's use.
I should probably ask why you would want to use return resource. Are there common situations where you use it? My guess would be post-harass management, after a split or something.
How do your Attack, etc. commands look like now? Have you tried using 1E, 2E, 3E? I find it to feel extremely smooth and quick, especially when controlling 3 or more army groups. If Control Group 1 was on " ` ", CG 2 on "1", CG3 on "2", and CG4 on "3",, then "W" would make for a great binding for attacking with multiple CG's. What prompted the changes? Was it due to pre-existing preferences? Or just bad locations in the layout for you?
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On May 30 2013 17:52 eneyeseekay wrote:
If you're using Zerg, then Space Bar as Base Camera is the money spot. The Mouseless Backspace method and the regular Backspace method play quite heavily off of Space Bar's use.
I should probably ask why you would want to use return resource. Are there common situations where you use it? My guess would be post-harass management, after a split or something.
How do your Attack, etc. commands look like now? Have you tried using 1E, 2E, 3E? I find it to feel extremely smooth and quick, especially when controlling 3 or more army groups. If Control Group 1 was on " ` ", CG 2 on "1", CG3 on "2", and CG4 on "3",, then "W" would make for a great binding for attacking with multiple CG's. What prompted the changes? Was it due to pre-existing preferences? Or just bad locations in the layout for you?
So I decided not to change most of the attack buttons and stuff, but I *did* switch tilde and space bar, because as a lefty, hitting shift + S + space bar is really awkward, and shift + S + tilde is a lot easier.
But I am having one annoying problem with caps lock. Doing stuff with the caps lock control group only works when the button is going from "not caps locked" to "caps locked"; if my little green indicator light is on, hitting caps lock does nothing. Anyone else had this problem? Any ideas? I'm running OS X 10.8.3 and using a Razer Black Widow keyboard.
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@Tritone
Hey, if the tilde switch feels better as a lefty, then by all means. If it feels better and it doesn't de-rail your layout then change it I say. If you ever decide to use the Camera (Layered Injects) method instead of the Backspace method, would you feel the need to make adjustments for that? Right now the keystrokes look like: Caps Lock, S, Shift(Hold)+Alt, A,S,D,F,Z,X C,V (clicking between each camera). The first half of it looks like a lot, but Caps Lock, S is done nearly simultaneously, and Shift(hold)+Alt is actually done simultaneously, so it isn't as slow as the keystrokes look, especially once you're used to it.
With the Backspace method, you can also cut out the use of Shift entirely by clicking between each base. It would look like (in default Alloy): Caps Lock, S+Space Bar, Click. S+Space Bar,Click again for each additional Hatchery. Much of this is also done with simultaneous keystrokes so it's fast. The only downside is that there is a rhythm to it; you must be on point when hitting that Click between the S+Space Bar step. This method cuts down on needing Shift, which I think speeds things up a bit, but like I said, there's some skill/practice involved. Not using Shift in this scenario also helps when you're susceptible to wandering Queens, as you'll only wind up with one Queen at the most if you make a mistake because you aren't Shift-queuing the Spawn Larva ability. The entire wandering issue is solved completely though by pressing W (Hold Position in default Alloy) after each cycle. It's very close to S on the keyboard, so it's easy to press at the end of a cycle.
The issue of the toggling Mac Caps Lock has come up before, but I don't think there was a solid solution found. I did do some looking around, and a potential fix might be to re-map Caps Lock similarly to the way Sharpkeys re-maps Windows keys. Given the choice, I personally wouldn't opt for playing games on a Mac, but I would still like to help find a solution to this since Mac users are in fact out there and want to play unhindered. Here are a couple links that might help, but I can't be entirely sure that it will remedy the problem as I'm not overly familiar with Mac (only used them for digital imaging/video editing programs in the past).
http://www.osxlatitude.com/remapping-keys-in-osx/
http://lifehacker.com/5882684/the-best-keyboard-remapper-for-mac-os-x
I hope something can be done about this, as Caps Lock is a great key to have at your disposal. If you're able to use a QWERTY or other type of PC keyboard with your Mac then perhaps that might make it easier? I'm not sure how Caps Lock would behave if used this way, but it might be worth a try.
Does anyone out there know of a solid fix for this?
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On May 31 2013 03:45 eneyeseekay wrote:
If you're able to use a QWERTY or other type of PC keyboard with your Mac then perhaps that might make it easier? I'm not sure how Caps Lock would behave if used this way, but it might be worth a try.
I use a Razer Black Widow keyboard.
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5 games into using Alloy after playing slightly modified standard since launch, I'm having quite a tough time but I can already see the potential benefit here. I keep forgetting that I need to use the Alt key, so that's a problem on my part.
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On May 31 2013 09:34 yakitate304 wrote:
5 games into using Alloy after playing slightly modified standard since launch, I'm having quite a tough time but I can already see the potential benefit here. I keep forgetting that I need to use the Alt key, so that's a problem on my part.
That's great! Is the difficulty mostly due to the fact that you're going from Standard to Alloy's version of an optimized Grid? If you want to get a better feel for using the Q-V keys (or any other keys for that matter), I'd suggest hopping into a custom game and doing some simple drills.
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On May 31 2013 03:45 eneyeseekay wrote:The issue of the toggling Mac Caps Lock has come up before, but I don't think there was a solid solution found.
[...]
Does anyone out there know of a solid fix for this?
OK, I found a pretty simple solution. An app called PCKeyboardHack (and yes, despite the name, it works for OS X) can switch your capslock with backspace. It's working perfectly for me.
https://pqrs.org/macosx/keyremap4macbook/pckeyboardhack.html.en
Hooray!
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I never noticed this before, but why is Move bound to R? It's completely redundant because it actually takes one more action than simply right-clicking. It should be replaced with Stop, which is not redundant because Hold Position is much different; Stop cancels all other commands instead.
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I've recently switched from Standard hotkeysetup to Element QWERTY Zerg. Really enjoying it so far. Thanks for putting the time into this.
I have encountered one problem that eludes me. For the rapidfire key for Element, its 'X'. I cannot get this to work at all. If I switch to Alloy, the rapidfire key 'S' works flawlessly. I checked the mapped hotkey under unit management for Element and it's set the same way as the Alloy version. I don't know what the problem is and could not find anybody reporting this problem in this thread. Any good guesses on what the problem is for the Element QWERTY version?
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On June 01 2013 11:43 Antylamon wrote:
I never noticed this before, but why is Move bound to R? It's completely redundant because it actually takes one more action than simply right-clicking. It should be replaced with Stop, which is not redundant because Hold Position is much different; Stop cancels all other commands instead.
It's not bound to R per se, but Element uses Grid, and move is R in grid, you can't change individual keys.
I highly recommend Alloy. I found it easier to grow accustomed to coming from standard hotkeys.
I thoroughly enjoy Alloy in fact. It has improved my mechanics a ton! Now if only my strategy could catch up....
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found a solution to the rapid fire key. Apparently have to press shift before holding 'X' key. The grid profile doesn't let you get into the Zerg unit hotkeys, So that sucks to since creep tumor is bounded to A and S in Alloy.
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On May 31 2013 14:29 eneyeseekay wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:34 yakitate304 wrote:
5 games into using Alloy after playing slightly modified standard since launch, I'm having quite a tough time but I can already see the potential benefit here. I keep forgetting that I need to use the Alt key, so that's a problem on my part. That's great! Is the difficulty mostly due to the fact that you're going from Standard to Alloy's version of an optimized Grid? If you want to get a better feel for using the Q-V keys (or any other keys for that matter), I'd suggest hopping into a custom game and doing some simple drills.
I've just been playing unranked games and practicing with my Clarity Gaming Community Team teammates. I've played about 15-20 games and my spending is pretty bad so far, but I'm getting more comfortable making buildings and units. Just need to get used to using the camera keys more, since I didn't utilize them very much when I played standard with F1-F4 cameras. I really like Alloy (moreso than Element), I'm just still clunky with it.
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So it's been about a week and a half since I started using Fleet Keys Alloy as Zerg, and I'm pretty much 100% used to them by now. I still forget some of the grid keys for making less used buildings (ie. Nydus) and have lost a few games where I went Evolution Chamber instead of Spawning Pool (still somewhat used to "S" making the pool rather than "A"), but altogether I'm loving the key setup. I'm using cameras much more than I used to with my mostly standard hotkey setup (with cameras on F1-F8) and my injects are a lot better.
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i am starting to get wrist injuries and think about switching to a new hotkey setup. Would you recommend this one or the one from Jakatak. Btw where is the thread, I cant find it anymore.
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Another update from me... I just switched the Protoss a few days ago (after 3 years of Zerg) and the transition has been very smooth in terms of my hands. The Caps Lock and Spacebar being different than Zerg's Alloy is different but overall, I love the setup.
"C" and "V" have been my Proxy Pylon hotkeys, with ASDFZX being bases 1-6. Alt + Middle Mouse also took a while to get used to but now it feels perfect, since I am usually warping in directly after hitting a camera key.
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I'm really really interested in this layout but the AZERTY (damn french keyboards...) one seems broken. Control groups are bound to qwerty keys at the very least, and not sure all the other ones are correct either.
I'll just use the default one and force switch my keyboard to qwerty for now.
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All right. I'm back, and I'm ready to deploy the new thread. 30k views is pretty damn cool!
Long story short: A steady stream of personal issues kept burying my progress on this for a while. This demanded a lot of necessary time and attention, and as a result, took a lot of wind out of my sails. Everything's mostly fine now, so let's get this on the go!
Needless to say, I have some catching up to do with all of you guys, and I'll go through what I missed or didn't address in the last couple weeks. I did respond to a few question through PM's/emails I received, so if anyone sent me one, check your inboxes now.
@icww
+ Show Spoiler +On June 01 2013 12:02 icww wrote:
I've recently switched from Standard hotkeysetup to Element QWERTY Zerg. Really enjoying it so far. Thanks for putting the time into this.
I have encountered one problem that eludes me. For the rapidfire key for Element, its 'X'. I cannot get this to work at all. If I switch to Alloy, the rapidfire key 'S' works flawlessly. I checked the mapped hotkey under unit management for Element and it's set the same way as the Alloy version. I don't know what the problem is and could not find anybody reporting this problem in this thread. Any good guesses on what the problem is for the Element QWERTY version? You're welcome! I hope Element works out well for you. If you want to improve on what Element offers, I would suggest making the leap to Alloy at some point though. So Rapidfire Ability key in QWERTY Element is bound to S? Did I read that right? I haven't heard anybody else bringing that up, but I will definitely look into it. It most definitely should be on X, as it fits with the Grid template.
@Antylamon
+ Show Spoiler +On June 01 2013 11:43 Antylamon wrote:
I never noticed this before, but why is Move bound to R? It's completely redundant because it actually takes one more action than simply right-clicking. It should be replaced with Stop, which is not redundant because Hold Position is much different; Stop cancels all other commands instead. Yes I found that Move is fairly redundant, but I want to wait to see if players really do miss the use of Stop before making those changes. I realize that Stop and Hold Position are different commands, but you stand to lose out when it comes to damage in the event of issuing Stops (accidental or not). There are so few instances where Stop is really necessary. Dealing damage while holding your position is always better than standing still and not responding right? For the Move binding, there is a method behind this madness. In situations where you want to Move units into an engagement that is a very busy area, such as moving Lings up on a sizable or split bio force for a surround, or when magic boxing Mutas, you run the risk of right-clicking an enemy when attempting to Move-command around. This can cause game-ending clumping and unintended focused attacks. Keeping Move on R is a decision made for uninterrupted maneuverability for nearly any situation that doesn't involve terrain blockage or Forcefields. You are correct in that Right Clicking can work most of the time.
@yakitate304
+ Show Spoiler +On June 02 2013 10:38 yakitate304 wrote:I've just been playing unranked games and practicing with my Clarity Gaming Community Team teammates. I've played about 15-20 games and my spending is pretty bad so far, but I'm getting more comfortable making buildings and units. Just need to get used to using the camera keys more, since I didn't utilize them very much when I played standard with F1-F4 cameras. I really like Alloy (moreso than Element), I'm just still clunky with it. Hey, being clunky is expected when learning a new layout. I noticed you made a couple more posts since your first, so I'll address those below. ____________________________________________________ On June 10 2013 01:54 yakitate304 wrote:
So it's been about a week and a half since I started using Fleet Keys Alloy as Zerg, and I'm pretty much 100% used to them by now. I still forget some of the grid keys for making less used buildings (ie. Nydus) and have lost a few games where I went Evolution Chamber instead of Spawning Pool (still somewhat used to "S" making the pool rather than "A"), but altogether I'm loving the key setup. I'm using cameras much more than I used to with my mostly standard hotkey setup (with cameras on F1-F8) and my injects are a lot better. It's awesome to hear that you've adjusted quickly! What made you decide to use the F1-F8 keys for Camera Locations? Is it a matter of preference or do you see a fatal flaw in the A/F and Z/V Camera Location bindings? Using the F1-F8 keys for cameras basically cuts off your ability to perform Camera Injects (aka Layered Injects). It can be a useful Inject method . ____________________________________________________ On June 18 2013 17:06 yakitate304 wrote:
Another update from me... I just switched the Protoss a few days ago (after 3 years of Zerg) and the transition has been very smooth in terms of my hands. The Caps Lock and Spacebar being different than Zerg's Alloy is different but overall, I love the setup.
"C" and "V" have been my Proxy Pylon hotkeys, with ASDFZX being bases 1-6. Alt + Middle Mouse also took a while to get used to but now it feels perfect, since I am usually warping in directly after hitting a camera key. Thanks for the updates, it's always good to know the progress of the people who decide to use this layout. So you switched to Protoss, and now you're using the A/F, Z/V Camera Locations? What happened there? You were using the F1-F8 keys before weren't you?
@PoP
+ Show Spoiler +On June 19 2013 08:51 PoP wrote:
I'm really really interested in this layout but the AZERTY (damn french keyboards...) one seems broken. Control groups are bound to qwerty keys at the very least, and not sure all the other ones are correct either.
I'll just use the default one and force switch my keyboard to qwerty for now. That's uhh... not good. I will be looking into this shortly. QWERTY and AZERTY are most definitely not the same thing, haha.
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I hope you all enjoy the new overhauled OP! Feels good to finally have it done...
As always, send any comments, suggestions or concerns to:- eneyeseekay999@gmail.com
- This thread's comment section
- My TL inbox
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i think you need to fix the links, they are not working for me
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On June 21 2013 05:26 JoKeRx wrote:
i think you need to fix the links, they are not working for me
All fixed now. I just had to replace the links I was using while editing the thread. Everyone has access to them now, thanks for the heads up.
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So my finger placement right now is (Allow, Terran player):
- pinky on `, tab, caps lock, shift and ctrl,
- ring on 1, Q,
- middle on 2, W
- index on 3, E, R...
- thumb on Alt, Space
First question, is it the expected placement, at least for the keys I specified? Or is it OK, at the very least?
Secondly, which fingers am I supposed to use for abilities (A through F) ? These keys seem pretty hard to get to with that hand placement at least (unless I release control group fingers). I feel like having them mapped to, like, X/C/V/B would make more sense as I could use my thumb (which I also use on space bar for primary action anyway).
eneyeseekay, what do you think?
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On June 22 2013 03:54 PoP wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So my finger placement right now is (Allow, Terran player):
- pinky on `, tab, caps lock, shift and ctrl,
- ring on 1, Q,
- middle on 2, W
- index on 3, E, R...
- thumb on Alt, Space
First question, is it the expected placement, at least for the keys I specified? Or is it OK, at the very least?
Secondly, which fingers am I supposed to use for abilities (A through F) ? These keys seem pretty hard to get to with that hand placement at least (unless I release control group fingers). I feel like having them mapped to, like, X/C/V/B would make more sense as I could use my thumb (which I also use on space bar for primary action anyway).
eneyeseekay, what do you think?
Yup, your finger placement sounds about right. Here's how I'd list it:- Ring on Q
- Middle on W
- Index on E
- Thumb on Alt or Space Bar
- Pinky on left modifiers (and Tab if comfortable). When adding to Tab (or Caps Lock for Zerg), I'd suggest using pinky and ring.
To answer your question about A-F:
Yes, somewhat. If you want to use spells/abilities without taking advantage of the Smart Key, you would be expected to use A-F. You'll rarely ever find yourself using F or G though, as most spells/abilities and production commands fall on A,S,D and Q,W,E,R. If you're comfortable in using Z,X,C,V with your thumb, then by all means go for it, just watch out that you don't accidentally hit Space Bar and Alt!
Do note that:
With the Terran & Protoss layout, you have the option to use Space Bar (the Smart Key) for most of your common/favorite abilities and commands. Check out the cheat sheet for most of the default Smart Key bindings (located on the far right). This aims to eliminate movement/reaching you don't want to do or are simply not comfortable in performing. This is a way to let your fingers do their thing during macroing and microing, while letting your thumb take on some of the burden that would normally require you to reach 1 or 2 keys away from where you want to be during those times. Although this may seem like a newb-friendly feature, it gives players a lot more control over what the layout can do for them, and in the end, preference and comfort is everything. The Smart Key is just one more option to take advantage of, and the fact that it is a alternating keystroke in nearly all situations means it's always going to be quicker to use.
Here's what I think:
SC2 has a world of improvements over BW when it comes to hotkey options, but the controls this time around are plentiful and a lot more expansive, so you will be forced to reach somewhere at some point when using only hotkeys. Take a look at any hotkey layout out there, and you'll find that they all contain keys that are spread across 5 adjacent keys, on one or more horizontal levels, all the while not even including modifiers. This will always force some amount of reaching unfortunately. Any layout condensed like this is layered in some way through modifiers too. 10 Control Groups, 8 Camera Locations, that's 18 keys, which is 3 keys over the 15 you have in a "comfy" 5x3 Grid. We didn't even take into account Unit Commands, spells/abilities, and modifiers yet. You quickly begin to run out of comfortably-accessible keyboard space, especially with only 3-4 dexterous digits operating at any given time.
If you compare Alloy's hotkey arrangement against Standard, you'll see that there are a lot of instances where you must hop over multiple keys to issue commands. If you include the usage of the F1-F8 keys, this takes jumping around your keyboard to a whole new level. People don't even regularly use those keys when typing, let alone in a game where how fast you can do things matters quite a bit!
Edit: I think I'll include the "Do note that:" text in the Additional Info section of the OP. I'll be taking a look at that AZERTY issue you posted tonight. Gotta see what's up with that..
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DL-ed and gonna test it, dunno how it works tho. Im lazy and dont like to move even my hand. I like the 1 spacebar for all actions button thats smart
Seems promising layout for a lazy f^%$#r like me
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I do like space and try to use it for everything it's bound to. I might reassign a few of them, like raven (I feel like PDD would be more beneficial for me than seeker missile for instance), but that's it.
Actually, that "pinky on tab if comfortable" part of your example made me reconsider my hand position a bit. I feel like ring on tab does feel a tad more comfortable, esp at the beginning when spamming it a bit to warm up (and I'd rather not change fingers in the middle of a game). I have to use the same finger for group 1 and CC then, but it's okay, keys are right next to each other. It kinda makes my hand feel a bit more mobile which is not bad. Might reconsider this again, but for now I like the minor change.
I agree on the part about having to jump around a bit at some point, and I have no problem with it. I also agree about the risk of hitting spacebar when using bottom row letter keys, so it's probably not that good an idea. However, I still believe A in general is too hard to get to compared to other keys (and is still needed, for example for ghost snipes). I'd rather have the abilities go S => G than A => F (in short, skip the first key of the row, same for bottom one when applicable). Then thumb can be used for all of them. I'd even go as far as to suggest D => H (as you said, H would almost never be needed anyway, and D and F are the most comfortable keys for the thumb with this layout I feel).
edit: I can use ring finger on A without any problem when building or using main camera location, what I'm saying is the jump can be a little awkward from an actual control group during a fight (for abilities such as snipe or autoturrets). I just feel like D and F are right under the thumb and should have more purpose maybe.
Well, maybe I have big hands or something, but this is the only thing I would change to this great layout. I've been liking everything else so far.
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On June 22 2013 07:18 govie wrote:DL-ed and gonna test it, dunno how it works tho. Im lazy and dont like to move even my hand. I like the 1 spacebar for all actions button thats smart Seems promising layout for a lazy f^%$#r like me
Hahaha.. Yeah it does a pretty good job of keeping your hand from jumping all over the place. Most of the reaching will be up and down movements, so it's not so bad. Like I said to PoP though, there will be some instances of you reaching to R and T sometimes (almost never T), but it's not like the keys are scattered all over the place. I hope you find some use of it! It's cool to hear that the Smart Key is actually useful, it's a feature that nobody really asks or wonders about.
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On June 21 2013 04:08 eneyeseekay wrote:All right. I'm back, and I'm ready to deploy the new thread. 30k views is pretty damn cool! Long story short: A steady stream of personal issues kept burying my progress on this for a while. This demanded a lot of necessary time and attention, and as a result, took a lot of wind out of my sails. Everything's mostly fine now, so let's get this on the go! Needless to say, I have some catching up to do with all of you guys, and I'll go through what I missed or didn't address in the last couple weeks. I did respond to a few question through PM's/emails I received, so if anyone sent me one, check your inboxes now. @icww + Show Spoiler +On June 01 2013 12:02 icww wrote:
I've recently switched from Standard hotkeysetup to Element QWERTY Zerg. Really enjoying it so far. Thanks for putting the time into this.
I have encountered one problem that eludes me. For the rapidfire key for Element, its 'X'. I cannot get this to work at all. If I switch to Alloy, the rapidfire key 'S' works flawlessly. I checked the mapped hotkey under unit management for Element and it's set the same way as the Alloy version. I don't know what the problem is and could not find anybody reporting this problem in this thread. Any good guesses on what the problem is for the Element QWERTY version? You're welcome! I hope Element works out well for you. If you want to improve on what Element offers, I would suggest making the leap to Alloy at some point though. So Rapidfire Ability key in QWERTY Element is bound to S? Did I read that right? I haven't heard anybody else bringing that up, but I will definitely look into it. It most definitely should be on X, as it fits with the Grid template. @Antylamon + Show Spoiler +On June 01 2013 11:43 Antylamon wrote:
I never noticed this before, but why is Move bound to R? It's completely redundant because it actually takes one more action than simply right-clicking. It should be replaced with Stop, which is not redundant because Hold Position is much different; Stop cancels all other commands instead. Yes I found that Move is fairly redundant, but I want to wait to see if players really do miss the use of Stop before making those changes. I realize that Stop and Hold Position are different commands, but you stand to lose out when it comes to damage in the event of issuing Stops (accidental or not). There are so few instances where Stop is really necessary. Dealing damage while holding your position is always better than standing still and not responding right? For the Move binding, there is a method behind this madness. In situations where you want to Move units into an engagement that is a very busy area, such as moving Lings up on a sizable or split bio force for a surround, or when magic boxing Mutas, you run the risk of right-clicking an enemy when attempting to Move-command around. This can cause game-ending clumping and unintended focused attacks. Keeping Move on R is a decision made for uninterrupted maneuverability for nearly any situation that doesn't involve terrain blockage or Forcefields. You are correct in that Right Clicking can work most of the time. @yakitate304 + Show Spoiler +On June 02 2013 10:38 yakitate304 wrote:I've just been playing unranked games and practicing with my Clarity Gaming Community Team teammates. I've played about 15-20 games and my spending is pretty bad so far, but I'm getting more comfortable making buildings and units. Just need to get used to using the camera keys more, since I didn't utilize them very much when I played standard with F1-F4 cameras. I really like Alloy (moreso than Element), I'm just still clunky with it. Hey, being clunky is expected when learning a new layout. I noticed you made a couple more posts since your first, so I'll address those below. ____________________________________________________ On June 10 2013 01:54 yakitate304 wrote:
So it's been about a week and a half since I started using Fleet Keys Alloy as Zerg, and I'm pretty much 100% used to them by now. I still forget some of the grid keys for making less used buildings (ie. Nydus) and have lost a few games where I went Evolution Chamber instead of Spawning Pool (still somewhat used to "S" making the pool rather than "A"), but altogether I'm loving the key setup. I'm using cameras much more than I used to with my mostly standard hotkey setup (with cameras on F1-F8) and my injects are a lot better. It's awesome to hear that you've adjusted quickly! What made you decide to use the F1-F8 keys for Camera Locations? Is it a matter of preference or do you see a fatal flaw in the A/F and Z/V Camera Location bindings? Using the F1-F8 keys for cameras basically cuts off your ability to perform Camera Injects (aka Layered Injects). It can be a useful Inject method . ____________________________________________________ On June 18 2013 17:06 yakitate304 wrote:
Another update from me... I just switched the Protoss a few days ago (after 3 years of Zerg) and the transition has been very smooth in terms of my hands. The Caps Lock and Spacebar being different than Zerg's Alloy is different but overall, I love the setup.
"C" and "V" have been my Proxy Pylon hotkeys, with ASDFZX being bases 1-6. Alt + Middle Mouse also took a while to get used to but now it feels perfect, since I am usually warping in directly after hitting a camera key. Thanks for the updates, it's always good to know the progress of the people who decide to use this layout. So you switched to Protoss, and now you're using the A/F, Z/V Camera Locations? What happened there? You were using the F1-F8 keys before weren't you? @PoP + Show Spoiler +On June 19 2013 08:51 PoP wrote:
I'm really really interested in this layout but the AZERTY (damn french keyboards...) one seems broken. Control groups are bound to qwerty keys at the very least, and not sure all the other ones are correct either.
I'll just use the default one and force switch my keyboard to qwerty for now. That's uhh... not good. I will be looking into this shortly. QWERTY and AZERTY are most definitely not the same thing, haha.
What I meant is that for the past 3 years, I've been playing standard and I have had F1-F8 bound as cameras but rarely ever used them. Now that I'm using Fleet Keys I'm using ASDF ZXCV and relying a lot on my cameras which makes a huge difference. In particular, now that I've switched to Protoss, it's huge to be able to immediately jump to my forward pylons.
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On June 22 2013 09:31 eneyeseekay wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 07:18 govie wrote:DL-ed and gonna test it, dunno how it works tho. Im lazy and dont like to move even my hand. I like the 1 spacebar for all actions button thats smart Seems promising layout for a lazy f^%$#r like me Hahaha.. Yeah it does a pretty good job of keeping your hand from jumping all over the place. Most of the reaching will be up and down movements, so it's not so bad. Like I said to PoP though, there will be some instances of you reaching to R and T sometimes (almost never T), but it's not like the keys are scattered all over the place. I hope you find some use of it! It's cool to hear that the Smart Key is actually useful, it's a feature that nobody really asks or wonders about.
I like the idea because my thumb doesnt do anything at the moment. It gives me 1 second more to do something else in battle. Also, u can costimize it to your builds. So, for example : Mass raven HSM execution could be easier and maybe faster even. Ghost micro, Dont have to move my hand, it will give me an edge over templar of 0.5 second orso. etcetcetc. Havent tested it yet, but it could help me i hope
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Got some questions and remarks after my first ingame try :
Remarks
1. Doubletap space builds supplydepot. This is really nice, i can use my thumb more;
2. I like that stim etc is on space. I dont have to look what key im pressing to enable certain abilities and use my thumb too;
3. Having cc, rax, fact. and port on : alt+hotkey takes some getting used to but,but,but.... it eliminates the usage of key 6,7,8 etc on keyboard (i allways hated that). So it could be worth it. Ill have to see how long it takes for me too get used too it.
4. The abilities buttons are 1 row higher which is much more pleasant.
Questions
1. What does rapidfirekey "S"do exactly when i play terran. Or what and how do i utilize it?
2. Select warpgates is alt+middlemouse button. Does this also count for terran rax?
I like it so far. Deserves more testing and getting used too
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any experience of players who are using the core about this?`i might think of switching
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Great Layout! I switched yesterday and really like the benifits of it. The only problem I have is that Ctrl-A Alt-A for camera does not work (I'm using Alloy). It is bound correctly in the options but doesn't work in game. All other camera hotkeys work perfectly. I was wondering if anyone else has the same issue.
Thanks!
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On June 22 2013 07:29 PoP wrote:
I do like space and try to use it for everything it's bound to. I might reassign a few of them, like raven (I feel like PDD would be more beneficial for me than seeker missile for instance), but that's it.
That's the beauty of it! If you don't like what the default bindings offer then it's completely up to you as to what abilities are tied to it. I often thought of PDD being on it by default tbh. Such a useful ability..
Actually, that "pinky on tab if comfortable" part of your example made me reconsider my hand position a bit. I feel like ring on tab does feel a tad more comfortable, esp at the beginning when spamming it a bit to warm up (and I'd rather not change fingers in the middle of a game). I have to use the same finger for group 1 and CC then, but it's okay, keys are right next to each other. It kinda makes my hand feel a bit more mobile which is not bad. Might reconsider this again, but for now I like the minor change.
For sure. I actually hop all over the place within Alloy's confines. Spamming Alt+Q,W,E,R when Queens are building/Injects are taking effect, flicking through 1,2,3,4 all the time.. I'm not afraid to shift over 1 key to touch on a key, as I'm only managing 3 fingers for the most part. It's funny though, 99% of the time I'm using my ring finger for Tab, and my pinky for the modifiers and Caps Lock. I have the least functional pinky of anyone I know (I think it was broken at a young age and didn't heal right or something, idk).
I agree on the part about having to jump around a bit at some point, and I have no problem with it. I also agree about the risk of hitting spacebar when using bottom row letter keys, so it's probably not that good an idea. However, I still believe A in general is too hard to get to compared to other keys (and is still needed, for example for ghost snipes). I'd rather have the abilities go S => G than A => F (in short, skip the first key of the row, same for bottom one when applicable). Then thumb can be used for all of them. I'd even go as far as to suggest D => H (as you said, H would almost never be needed anyway, and D and F are the most comfortable keys for the thumb with this layout I feel).
You could always try out shifting them over 1 key if you think it'll work for you. I have fairly large hands myself, and I reallllly don't like having to hit anything on the bottom row; Alloy is basically a product of that.
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On June 22 2013 17:31 govie wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Got some questions and remarks after my first ingame try : Remarks1. Doubletap space builds supplydepot. This is really nice, i can use my thumb more; 2. I like that stim etc is on space. I dont have to look what key im pressing to enable certain abilities and use my thumb too; 3. Having cc, rax, fact. and port on : alt+hotkey takes some getting used to but,but,but.... it eliminates the usage of key 6,7,8 etc on keyboard (i allways hated that). So it could be worth it. Ill have to see how long it takes for me too get used too it. 4. The abilities buttons are 1 row higher which is much more pleasant. Questions1. What does rapidfirekey "S"do exactly when i play terran. Or what and how do i utilize it? 2. Select warpgates is alt+middlemouse button. Does this also count for terran rax? I like it so far. Deserves more testing and getting used too
About remark 3-- It's recommended to put CC's on Tab. It lets you roll and alternate your fingers for CC macro abilities and worker production. They pretty much line up with your fingers this way. Rax, Factory and Starports are suggested for Q,W,E, and any upgrades you're keeping an eye on can go on R (helps line up timing attacks without staring at your base). These are merely suggestions though, you could use Tabbed production too if you wanted (I often think about this). Many agree that subgroup selection on side mouse buttons works well so I'd suggest that. If I were to implement tabbed production, I would place all of army production structures on Caps Lock I think. This lets your pinky handle some work to make it easier on your ring/middle/index fingers. It's also easy as hell to add to add to that group while on Caps Lock as it's right next to Shift. Anyways, that's just an idea if you didn't like the Alt+Q,W,E thing and also don't like using 5,6,7,8.
Actually.. You could set that up easily and rebind/forego the Base Camera key that's on Caps Lock atm (you could use Camera Locations instead to jump through bases). That way you could monitor your production really quick through Alt+Q,W,E, AND issue production commands fairly easy...? Could work? Just an idea!
Answers
1. With Terran, the Rapidfire Ability key does a few useful things for you. To use it with any ability or command, you can hold Shift, press the key for the specific ability/command, and then execute it with S as much as you want. For abilities that fall on S, you only have to hold the S key. Apart from rapid Ghost Snipes to ward off HT's, you can send out multiple HSM's (not always the best way to spend the energy mind you, calculated usage is always best obviously), you can drop multiple MULES really fast if you fall behind on macro or have a lot of Orbitals, you can calldown Depots in an emergency if you need to, and you can send out rapid Build commands (only "really" applicable in the case of Depots in a supply block situation). There may be other uses for it, but I haven't discovered them yet. In testing, I have used rapid Attack-Move commands, sent out in arcs, then boxed small chunks of the forces, and issued Hold Position commands to each as they moved to create large concaves quickly. It's a cute micro trick that might help out?
2. I guess you could do that. You'd just have to put a Control Group on Alt+MMB, and change the Shift+MMB function to Add, and Ctrl+MMB to create/rewrite the group.
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On June 22 2013 18:10 bypLy wrote:
any experience of players who are using the core about this?`i might think of switching
I say the best course of action is to read what's in the OP and comments here to get an idea of what's up, and then head over to JaK's thread and ask the users there what they think. It's a very busy thread, so I'm sure you'd get a decent amount of responses. Those are the dudes who know TheCore the best.
Are there any lurkers out there/in here who can help this guy out? My Core-Fu is as rusty and non-existent they come-- I can't fully answer this one. I'll try to offer some advice though.
I've talked to people who have tried both and liked both for different reasons. Then of course others who only like one. Some research and trial is probably the only way you're going to get a good idea of what you like.
If you are thinking of switching but don't want to flip your brain upside-down, then I suggest just taking a good look at the cheat sheet and the Alloy section of the OP, and then hopping into a couple longer practice games against an easy AI opponent. If it begins to click with you after a couple of these games (or if it doesn't), then you'll have a much better idea as to which one you want to spend more time with.
On June 22 2013 20:27 AlAlkemist wrote:
Great Layout! I switched yesterday and really like the benifits of it. The only problem I have is that Ctrl-A Alt-A for camera does not work (I'm using Alloy). It is bound correctly in the options but doesn't work in game. All other camera hotkeys work perfectly. I was wondering if anyone else has the same issue.
Thanks!
It could be a hardware issue, I'm not sure. Try swapping the keyboard to test it, or if you run any registry hacks to swap key functions then disable them (Sharpkeys, etc). I've tested this with multiple keyboards and I can't replicate the problem. Anyone else know what could be wrong here?
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On June 23 2013 01:24 eneyeseekay wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 20:27 AlAlkemist wrote:
Great Layout! I switched yesterday and really like the benifits of it. The only problem I have is that Ctrl-A Alt-A for camera does not work (I'm using Alloy). It is bound correctly in the options but doesn't work in game. All other camera hotkeys work perfectly. I was wondering if anyone else has the same issue.
Thanks! It could be a hardware issue, I'm not sure. Try swapping the keyboard to test it, or if you run any registry hacks to swap key functions then disable them (Sharpkeys, etc). I've tested this with multiple keyboards and I can't replicate the problem. Anyone else know what could be wrong here?
I tried with another keyboard but no luck. It is probably my system (I got no registry hacks). Anyways, not a deal breaker for me, since the other 7 location keys are plenty enough! I've grown to love this layout in just 2 days. It is quite efficient and, since I played grid, not that hard to get used to.
Thx for the help!
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great will check that out
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On June 23 2013 00:08 eneyeseekay wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 17:31 govie wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Got some questions and remarks after my first ingame try : Remarks1. Doubletap space builds supplydepot. This is really nice, i can use my thumb more; 2. I like that stim etc is on space. I dont have to look what key im pressing to enable certain abilities and use my thumb too; 3. Having cc, rax, fact. and port on : alt+hotkey takes some getting used to but,but,but.... it eliminates the usage of key 6,7,8 etc on keyboard (i allways hated that). So it could be worth it. Ill have to see how long it takes for me too get used too it. 4. The abilities buttons are 1 row higher which is much more pleasant. Questions1. What does rapidfirekey "S"do exactly when i play terran. Or what and how do i utilize it? 2. Select warpgates is alt+middlemouse button. Does this also count for terran rax? I like it so far. Deserves more testing and getting used too About remark 3-- It's recommended to put CC's on Tab. It lets you roll and alternate your fingers for CC macro abilities and worker production. They pretty much line up with your fingers this way. Rax, Factory and Starports are suggested for Q,W,E, and any upgrades you're keeping an eye on can go on R (helps line up timing attacks without staring at your base). These are merely suggestions though, you could use Tabbed production too if you wanted (I often think about this). Many agree that subgroup selection on side mouse buttons works well so I'd suggest that. If I were to implement tabbed production, I would place all of army production structures on Caps Lock I think. This lets your pinky handle some work to make it easier on your ring/middle/index fingers. It's also easy as hell to add to add to that group while on Caps Lock as it's right next to Shift. Anyways, that's just an idea if you didn't like the Alt+Q,W,E thing and also don't like using 5,6,7,8. Actually.. You could set that up easily and rebind/forego the Base Camera key that's on Caps Lock atm (you could use Camera Locations instead to jump through bases). That way you could monitor your production really quick through Alt+Q,W,E, AND issue production commands fairly easy...? Could work? Just an idea! Answers1. With Terran, the Rapidfire Ability key does a few useful things for you. To use it with any ability or command, you can hold Shift, press the key for the specific ability/command, and then execute it with S as much as you want. For abilities that fall on S, you only have to hold the S key. Apart from rapid Ghost Snipes to ward off HT's, you can send out multiple HSM's (not always the best way to spend the energy mind you, calculated usage is always best obviously), you can drop multiple MULES really fast if you fall behind on macro or have a lot of Orbitals, you can calldown Depots in an emergency if you need to, and you can send out rapid Build commands (only "really" applicable in the case of Depots in a supply block situation). There may be other uses for it, but I haven't discovered them yet. In testing, I have used rapid Attack-Move commands, sent out in arcs, then boxed small chunks of the forces, and issued Hold Position commands to each as they moved to create large concaves quickly. It's a cute micro trick that might help out? 2. I guess you could do that. You'd just have to put a Control Group on Alt+MMB, and change the Shift+MMB function to Add, and Ctrl+MMB to create/rewrite the group.
Thx for the answers, ill check that rapidfire out and try some stuff Im not going to change thee hotkeys at this point. Im gonna pratise more with basic setup
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@govie
All right, if you come up with any other clever ways to use the Rapidfire Ability key then let me know.
I've been debating about whether or not I should support the tabbed production thing or not. Do you think its necessary to have the option to view them fast and then another method to produce with potentially less finger work? I'd have to say one of the only complaints of this layout is the use of Alt for production--it receives some confusing love/hate attention. I'm sure many people who dislike it haven't really played with it much or at all, as it usually comes in the form of "I don't like the idea of Alt - - -- - --- --", or "I'm not sure how good Alt would be for production-- -- - --". All feedback is appreciated, but experienced feedback is what's really going to push this further; needless to say, I'm really glad you're giving the default config a go!
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Feedback comming right now. Ive tested the basic setup with 4 games against AI, 1 unit tester and 1 macro game in terran vs. terran 40 minute game with all the units there are except ghosts. There are alot of benefits with this setup.
1. Many powers to spacebar
This is just such an improvement. I dont have to search for the keys when i need an ability with units i dont frequently use (ghosts, raven etc). siege, stim, HSM, yamato etc all binded to spacebar. So easy when playing with a very mixed composition threw one long game. Spacebar is for donkeys like me
2. Alt groups
Im getting the hang of it. Groups for the building under alt+q,w,e,r. It works, still feels somewhat gimmicky, because its new, but im gonna keep it. I think 5 games more to get used to it.
3. Rapid key S
The rapid fire ability is a waste for terran, ive tested that in unittester. The rapid fire key casts to fast to be effective. The result is that ur ravens, ghosts etc will be energy empty and not/less effective. I think rapid fire is only usefull for getting infested terrans really fast, else not.
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On June 23 2013 21:42 govie wrote:Feedback comming right now. Ive tested the basic setup with 4 games against AI, 1 unit tester and 1 macro game in terran vs. terran 40 minute game with all the units there are except ghosts. There are alot of benefits with this setup. 1. Many powers to spacebarThis is just such an improvement. I dont have to search for the keys when i need an ability with units i dont frequently use (ghosts, raven etc). siege, stim, HSM, yamato etc all binded to spacebar. So easy when playing with a very mixed composition threw one long game. Spacebar is for donkeys like me 2. Alt groupsIm getting the hang of it. Groups for the building under alt+q,w,e,r. It works, still feels somewhat gimmicky, because its new, but im gonna keep it. I think 5 games more to get used to it. 3. Rapid key SThe rapid fire ability is a waste for terran, ive tested that in unittester. The rapid fire key casts to fast to be effective. The result is that ur ravens, ghosts etc will be energy empty and not/less effective. I think rapid fire is only usefull for getting infested terrans really fast, else not.
Terran benefits the least from the Rapidfire Ability Key for sure, but I wouldn't count out the ability to drop a lot of MULES quick. The feature really shines for Zerg though, as it lets you spread Creep, spam IT's, and perform injects faster (reliably may be more accurate, since it cuts out clicking between Hatcheries). Protoss can use it mainly for mass/fast Feedbacks and extremely fast lategame Warp-ins. It's a situational thing no matter what way you look at it.
The great thing about this particular feature in my opinion is the fact that it's there-- ready and available, and if you're not aware of it you wouldn't even know it was there! Whether or not this becomes a widely used feature or not, it is in no way imposing or inconvenient given its current binding.
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add Random to the race poll pls.
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Quick question on the RapidFire key: shouldn't it be for Feedback on High Templars instead of storm? Since storm doesn't stack it might make more sense to make Storm A (and keep the Space Bar alternate) and move Feedback to S. Very nice for holding down S and going over a Terran army in late game.
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On June 24 2013 12:55 Garnet wrote:
add Random to the race poll pls.
Done! Keep in mind, I don't run support for a Random layout. In case you are Random, just know that you *should* be ready to switch to either the Protoss & Terran hotkey file or the Zerg one upon spawning. I can't bring myself to create a heavily gimped Zerg version that stays in line with the T & P one. They just wouldn't mix well as a hybrid.
On June 24 2013 12:59 MilExo wrote:
Quick question on the RapidFire key: shouldn't it be for Feedback on Hight Templars instead of storm? Since storm doesn't stack it might make more sense to make Storm A (and keep the Space Bar alternate) and move Feedback to S. Very nice for holding down S and going over a Terran army in late game.
S is the sweet spot to keep the Rapidfire Ability Key on. Having it on S for Zerg pretty much makes it what it is. It allows mouseless injects to exist, and makes mass-spreading Creep as easy as possible. The location of S in Alloy is great because you'll only ever have to press either S by itself, or drop your fingers down naturally on either A or D and then execute with S.
Chances are, you're going to have your ring, middle and index fingers on Q,W,E or 1,2,3 respectively, so when you have to respond and ready a round of Feedbacks, you only have to hold Shift with your pinky, drop your ring finger down on A and then middle finger on S. Feedback may not be directly on S, but it's still a falling motion that's incredibly easy and quick to perform. Not only is it easy but it's a deliberate act, and that's important too. This applies to any spells on A or D that might need to be spammed for some reason. If you want another way to do it, feel free to swap it for Psi Storm or even add Feedback to your HT's Smart Key binding.
By default, S is for spam.
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Thanks for the quick feedback (no pun intended). The biggest problem is that you would probably not want to spam storm (same as force field). It is wasted if the one storm (or force field) overlaps with another, so the extra half a second delay makes sense in order to get the positioning right.
For feedback I would say that it might be something that one would like to spam more, i.e. feedback all medivacs coming in before morphing to archons.
Otherwise really loving the layout, just trying to get used to Alt+Q-R. Actually thinking of mapping a mouse side button to Alt - might make things a bit easier. But excellent work on the layout. It is easy to learn, reduces hand movement and is essentially future proof and not dependent on the meta game. Great work!
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Just a little bit more feedback. Had a impressive winningstreak on ladder yesterday with this hotkeysetup (after 5 practisematches). I like long macro games and won most of them (+/-20 minutes). Slowly getting it i guess.
Biggest advantage is when on more bases then 4. U have to constantly produce army behind a big engagement out of 12+rax 2+ factories and 2+ starports. I feel this hotkeysetup, gives me a better shot at spending stuff when in an engagement. I dont have to search for my hotkeys on keyboard anymore because there out of reach, i just look at the screen.. I just watch the battle, select armygroups, press space when needed, select productionbuildings while engaging and spend all tha money without not looking at the screen. ezpz.
This setup for me, as a macroplayer, works better then other setups ive tested so far. Gonna keep it!
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I'm a few weeks into using these hotkeys - first as Zerg (3 years experience playing standard) and now as Protoss (~2 weeks experience). Absolutely love them. Figuring out which buildings/units are which in Grid is really the only "hard" part of the adjustment.
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On June 25 2013 23:06 govie wrote:Just a little bit more feedback. Had a impressive winningstreak on ladder yesterday with this hotkeysetup (after 5 practisematches). I like long macro games and won most of them (+/-20 minutes). Slowly getting it i guess. Biggest advantage is when on more bases then 4. U have to constantly produce army behind a big engagement out of 12+rax 2+ factories and 2+ starports. I feel this hotkeysetup, gives me a better shot at spending stuff when in an engagement. I dont have to search for my hotkeys on keyboard anymore because there out of reach, i just look at the screen.. I just watch the battle, select armygroups, press space when needed, select productionbuildings while engaging and spend all tha money without not looking at the screen. ezpz. This setup for me, as a macroplayer, works better then other setups ive tested so far. Gonna keep it!
That's awesome govie! I'm really happy to hear that its been working out well for you! I've got a couple questions for you if you don't mind answering:
1. How do you feel about the Alt+ production bindings now that you have more practice with it?
2. You mention the lategame muscle the layout has helped with, how does the early and mid game feel?
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On June 26 2013 00:47 yakitate304 wrote:
I'm a few weeks into using these hotkeys - first as Zerg (3 years experience playing standard) and now as Protoss (~2 weeks experience). Absolutely love them. Figuring out which buildings/units are which in Grid is really the only "hard" part of the adjustment.
It's funny, because I felt the same way when learning Grid. As soon as I started on Grid, I knew it was easier than Standard. Overwriting years of messing about with Brood War's hotkeys made going from Standard to Grid harder than it needed to be. Grid is just so much more organized and tidy, and reeeealllly helps when off-racing/playing Random. Also, if you aren't sure of a particular binding, you can always look at the Command Cards, see the key it calls for, and chances are you fingers are very close to the Command you want to execute.
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On June 26 2013 00:54 eneyeseekay wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 23:06 govie wrote:Just a little bit more feedback. Had a impressive winningstreak on ladder yesterday with this hotkeysetup (after 5 practisematches). I like long macro games and won most of them (+/-20 minutes). Slowly getting it i guess. Biggest advantage is when on more bases then 4. U have to constantly produce army behind a big engagement out of 12+rax 2+ factories and 2+ starports. I feel this hotkeysetup, gives me a better shot at spending stuff when in an engagement. I dont have to search for my hotkeys on keyboard anymore because there out of reach, i just look at the screen.. I just watch the battle, select armygroups, press space when needed, select productionbuildings while engaging and spend all tha money without not looking at the screen. ezpz. This setup for me, as a macroplayer, works better then other setups ive tested so far. Gonna keep it! That's awesome govie! I'm really happy to hear that its been working out well for you! I've got a couple questions for you if you don't mind answering: 1. How do you feel about the Alt+ production bindings now that you have more practice with it? 2. You mention the lategame muscle the layout has helped with, how does the early and mid game feel?
1. Well, it takes some getting used too (5 games), but it works out fine. My thumb has fitnesstraining now too!
2. Early/midgame, i'll devide that in micro/macro, which is easier to commentate.
Micro
Im not much of a micro orientated player, im not good enough for that yet, therefore i can't judge this setup for intensive microbattles. I can however see that the spacebar functionality saves players alot of actions, missclicks and time for searching for certain hotkeys. Therefore it would make a bigger variation of micro intensive units and more armygroups possible for peeps that arent used to a more microbased(ability) armycomposition.
A composition with many microintensive units like raven/viking, ghost, tank, MMM isnt impossible to control with this setup even for lowlevel players. And its all thanx too the 1 hotkey to rule them all, because u cant missclick an ability (only an armygroup).
Macro
Macrowise its the same early/mid/lategame. No looking at keyboard and I have more time to get better engagements, searching for the optimal concave, scouting and spend stuff during battles.
In general u could say that this setup gives me more time ingame then my old setup (or lets me execute actions more quickly and with a wider viarity which i could not do with my old setup). Micro, macro and engaging benefit from this setup. So, yes, its awesome. i.e. tvt macrobattles is very dependant on engagements, with this setup i have only lost 1 tvt (10+ games) because of the more time i have to judge situations. And that one loss was a stupid amove mistake (i had 60 more supply... before the stupid amove).
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I started playing Starcraft about a month ago. I played a little bit of BW years ago, but I don't think I even used hotkeys back then, so for all intents and purposes fleetkeys has been the only hotkey system I've ever used. To put it succinctly, I love fleetkeys. I don't know if its because I didn't have to "overwrite" previous experiences, but picking it up was ridiculously easy. When I started I was worried that learning hotkeys for each race was going to be a pain, but hotkeys makes the transition from one race to the next ridiculously simple. I started with terran and was really surprised at how smoothly I was able to start playing protoss. The same hand motion to build a barracks made a gateway etc. Zerg took was a little more tricky of a transition, but took only a couple games extra over the move from terran->protoss.
A couple observations:
1. I really dig alt- production. It seems to just click for me. My cc/nexus, barracks/gateway etc are always in the same place, always easily accessible. I can be in the middle of a fight and its a really natural motion to select barracks, spam Q, and then go back to micro (if you can call what I do micro ). Again, not sure if this is just a product of learning starcraft and fleetkeys at the same time, but it just feels really natural.
2. For zerg I use alt- w/e/r for my main/natural/3rd so I can quickly see inject timings and selectively build zerglings/probes if need be.
3. I find alt- z/x/c/v somewhat difficult to use, particularly z. I don't know if my hand size is the problem or what, but it just seems like a difficult stretch to make. I've considered rebinding it to my side mouse buttons so its not a big deal, but it is probably the only "learning curve" I've had with fleetkeys.
4. I knew about the rapidfire key, but I initially thought it only worked for abilities bound to s. It might be useful to make it more clear that it can be used with any ability as long as shift is held.
5. In certain situations I've been using an alternate injection method that takes advantage of how fleetkeys has the rapidfire key bound. If you have all your queens in a single group: select your queens -> hold down s -> wave your mouse cursor around the minimap where your hatcheries are. The nice thing about this method is it is fairly quick when you get the hang of it and you don't have to move your camera away from the action.
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ok ppl, first of all congrats on the layout! it's awesome!
i read these answers diagonaly so i might be reposting something here, sorry for that.
just wanted to leave my 2 cents here.
i'm a firm user and defender of TheCore and i use it for my main race (zerg) but since i started to tryout protoss i felt the need to tap between production buildings which led me to fleetkeys. i knew it since i searched for an alternate layout but for zerg liked thecore for faster injects (or easier for me).
so, for protoss i think the TAB key for nexi is better (while for terran might be the other way arround) since u're gonna warp in at a speciffic place.
Alt+Q to select gates and if u got a camera on the warp pylon near op (i got always, at least 3 cams, Z X C for chrono, for wall, for warp pylon) you get the Alt+C right next.
this gets me to my next point, rapid fire key.
i started using it back with the core for creep spread. here i use it for warp ins. this is how it goes:
Alt+Q -> select gates
Alt+C -> go to proxy pylon (without unpressing Alt)
Q -> to select zealots (or any other unit/key)
Shift+S -> to warp in at keyboard repetition rate ( while waving mouse around)
this allows me to "empty" 10, 15, 20, how many gates i have active in under 2 secs
now my changes to fleetkeys (and i think everyone should ajust any layout to his/her preferences):
- cams from Alt+key to key only - i feel the need to move around more often than 2 key pressing alowed. this does not change the warp in method!
- next subgroup to Mid mouse button - i have a razer abyssus and with thecore i used that so no harm in continue!
- the most important change i made and the one i'd think most ppl should consider (and i have to thank to Jak and thecore crew) is changing the add to control group from shift+key to Ctrl+key.
what this alows is to reduce the number of keypresses. when i warp in 5 dt's and 4 stalkers and 2 zealots i intend to put them in different CG's so i Ctrl+Click on 1 unit and then CG key then Ctrl+click on the next unit and the next CG key... without ever letting go of Ctrl.
this is taking a bit longer post so i guess we'll continue if anyone as questions :D
all rights on this Ctrl thing goes to Jak and TheCore dev crew! i DO believe that you can have the best of both worlds (fleetkeys and thecore) as long as you acknowledge the ppl who took that to you!
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@naxi
- Do you keep your CC's/Nexus/Hatcheries on Tab or Q? You left out the Q binding (unless I missed it there?) so I wasn't sure what you were using it for.
- Alt+Z/X/C/V seems to be hit and miss with a lot of folks; there's a lot of mixed feedback on it. Some love it, and some find it awkward. I personally find it "okay". Z-V cameras are on the bottom row, which can be a bummer for some since a lot of the layout operates around Q/E and A-S.I still feel like they are in the best spots they can be in because not only is the arrangement nice and uniform (you have a block of 8 nearby cameras available), F5-F8 is also ridiculously far away. At least in the case of Fleet Keys, the function keys are way out of reach to be of any immediate use.
- I will definitely add that Inject method to the Additional Info section! I messed around with it briefly when testing the Rapidfire Ability Key, but I didn't think people would ever bother doing it. Minimap method minus the clicking is actually a big improvement form the original method. The mouseless Backspace Injects are pretty cool-- did you try that method yet? Camera Injects with Fleet Keys (mainly Alloy) are really fluid as well. There are lots of options for that as Zerg.
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@eneyeseekay
-Sorry, I should have been clearer. For all 3 races I use tab for small groups of units that are scouting or harassing. For Terran/Protoss I use alt-Q for cc/nexus, alt-w for barracks/gates, alt-e for factory/robo, alt-r for ports/stargates. As you can see, it is super intuitive going between the two. For zerg, I use alt-q for all hatcheries, I use alt-w for main, alt-e for natural, alt-r for third. If I want to produce a bunch of units and I don't care where they come from I just use alt-q, if I need to be more specific I can. I believe this is very close to the suggested usage you have.
-Mouseless backspace is really, really good, but for whatever reason in the early game I've fallen into the habit of going to a base using the camera location hoteky, selecting the queen and injecting manually. I'm currently trying to break that habit, because while it does offer some control it is slow and clunky. I think I was just frustrated with wandering queens and did it this way as a temporary solution. My next 15-20 games are actually dedicated to getting my injects more fluid. I'm just having trouble with queen wandering when I have more hatches than queens.
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On June 26 2013 19:47 Orgganon wrote:
- the most important change i made and the one i'd think most ppl should consider (and i have to thank to Jak and thecore crew) is changing the add to control group from shift+key to Ctrl+key.
what this alows is to reduce the number of keypresses. when i warp in 5 dt's and 4 stalkers and 2 zealots i intend to put them in different CG's so i Ctrl+Click on 1 unit and then CG key then Ctrl+click on the next unit and the next CG key... without ever letting go of Ctrl.
(fleetkeys and thecore) as long as you acknowledge the ppl who took that to you!
Now it all makes sense! One of the reasons I chose fleetkeys over the core was because of the wonky usage of shift and ctrl in the core. I can definitely see how this is desirable for protoss. It seems less useful for zerg/terran though.
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@naxi
it depends on what u get used to, i still use thecore for zerg and fleetkeys for toss and won't trade that Crtl to add cause it applies to egg hotkeying too. if you are making mutas and lings, for example, u make mutas till u run out of gas and the rest is lings.
so
--> select hatcheries (and larvae)
--> press muta key till it can't produce anymore
--> Ctrl + click on eggs in the midle box to select all eggs
--> just press CG for mutas with Ctrl still pressed
--> repeat process for lings till larvae runs out or supply cap
and again, not yet grabbed terran so can't really put it into practice but shouldn't be that different
for those who don't have a clear idea, to do the same with the normal keyset u have to
-->Ctrl+click on units/eggs to select
-->Shift+CG key to add to CG
so your pinkie has to bounce from Ctrl to Shift everytime
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@orgganon
Heyyy it's pretty cool to see someone who uses both layouts, you're actually the first I've seen so far. Usually when it comes to layouts people tend to want to pick up and stick with only one. Do you find it hard to juggle both? What's that "firm user and defender of TheCore declaration all about"? It's really not necessary-- I don't think you'll be getting attacked, hahaha.
Regarding your changes and other points---
-How does changing Alt+A to V work when you want to use A,S,D or F, or the very infrequently used keys along Z-V? Wouldn't that cause you to jump directly to a camera? There are a lot of bindings on A-S and some on D. How does that work?
-Have you tried injects with the Zerg version of Alloy? It's pretty tight. You can use the Backspace method, the Mouseless Backspace method (eliminates the need to click on all of your Hatcheries), Camera (aka Layered) Injects, which in my opinion works extremely well with Fleet Keys, and then there's always the Minimap method, and the Rapidfire Minimap method. To sum it up, Zerg with Fleet keys is actually quite efficient as a result of necessary, focused racial optimization. I had to provide Zerg with its own hotkey file because of the results of it. Refinements in Injects was the main reason.
-When it comes to Warp-ins, you can use Alt+MMB to select your Warpgates. I would still recommend Q for Warpgates so you can check them quick, but I think accessing them with Alt+MMB is sick. You can Warp-in really easily-- Alt(hold)+cam, MMB, then Warp-in units. Pretty simple and easy. You don't even have to do it in that order. Cam first, Warpgates first, it doesn't matter.
-The Ctrl+ for adding is a neat improvement for layouts like TheCore, BaseJ and Iron Grid or other layouts that use the thumb for modifiers. In using Fleet Keys your modifiers are pressed with your pinky and Alt is used with your thumb. I have fairly large hands myself and anchoring my pinky to Ctrl while reaching for 1-5 is quite a difficult stretch, so I can't see Ctrl for adding being a key feature of the layout. The goal of Fleet Keys was never to achieve the least amount of keystrokes by any means necessary. I wouldn't encourage the use of a traditional keyboard and basic mouse if that was the goal. It tries to find a middle ground, one where you only gain ability and keep ability, but not lose it. Whether it's through increased efficiency through key proximity, familiarity, a generally lower learning curve, it doesn't really matter as long as it improved your play in some way without completely re-wiring your brain.
-The Subroup switching on MMB is interesting and I suppose you could do that, but you'd forego the beloved Drag Scroll feature! Are you using tabbed production and not want F1 and F2? As it stands, Alt+MMB is for selecting Warpgates, and Shift+MMB lets you Center on Current Selection. I actually have F1 and F2 set to next/previous subgroups because I don't push for tabbed production by default, and I never expect users to have side buttons on their mouse, but I feel like it should have some presence on the board. If you put upgrades/tech on R, then it works pretty good. If one were to use tabbed production, I'd recommend keeping the Next/Previous Subgroup Selection buttons on the forward and back side mouse buttons. Even the crew working on TheCore seem agree to agree on that.
Fun Fact: When I first developed Fleet Keys (still applies to Element and Alloy to this day!) I had the side mouse buttons suggested to be used as next/previous subgroups. Those were my suggested bindings that I found were the best, and when possible, encouraged the use of them in that fashion. The suggested MMB usage changed slightly, but the side button bindings stayed! Where's the credit and rights for that? wtf?! (totally kidding). In all seriousness though, use side mouse buttons for tabbed production if possible-- it's good!
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ok, so i made that "declaration" cause i've seen a lot of nerd rage against Jak and thecore developers in regards of their league placement and stuff... (why the hell does it matter where u are placed for ppl to take you serious? Catz isn't top 8 GM in America and he comes up with insane strats before the whole world and ppl still take him into account! the same for WhiteRa). nevertheless, i think ppl like you and Jak (along with all developers) deserve the credit for time and work put into these things (which is a lot!)
injects: haven't tried the fleet with zerg yet since i started playing toss haven't played zerg but the minimap rapidfire thingy is definitely something to look and try! when i do i'll give my thoughts on it.
i just feel more confortable and in control when i "cam inject". queens all in 1 group , select, press inject then cycle through bases with cam keys and just alternate key and click. i can assure i inject 6 bases in less than 1 sec though my mecanics aren't that great and my apm is around 75 :D (this is mostly due to the "less keystrokes" way of thinking)
as the Z-C changes regards: i find it easier to have those keys just for cams. what i did was allocate the former binds to the free keys u suggested (T;G;B) with the habilities less used. the major reason was those were already on ASD and one thing i never expected to be so awesome is the multi functiom spacebar! i use it with those essential things so no need to really have them there. one thing i'd like to state and hope jak reads this too, is that i morphed the multi function key on the core layout! (if you want i can discuss it too but this thread wouldn't be the place for it )
one thing left to say in the cams department is why i find easy to NOT Alt+(ZXC): i binded Z to chrono cam (with most of the gates on it), X to the wall off cam (usually at the natural) and C to the warp in cam (usually at a warp prism or a forward pylon) so this way i can cycle faster and not use modifiers.
as for the MMB: i just use it to cycle subgroups to discourage the use of drag cam since i believe we should always cam hotkey and hotkey move (not that it shouldn't be done, it's just that i'm lazy and if i do it i'll gain that bad habit)! also i use a Razer Abyssus therefore i don't have side buttons but with side buttons it's definitely the bind to do!
the warpgates button (Alt+MMB) i don't really use since my production is on Q so i select production and the gates are favoured over the robos so, for example, i'm in a battle and need to warp in
- Alt+Q (select production)
- C (go to pylon or prism)
- Q (for zealots)
- Shift+S (to empty gates)
- MMB (to change to robos)
- R (to queue colossus)
- then go on with adding to CG and doubletapping on army CG to get back to battle
3 or 4 secs in total with the lowest amount of APM.
the same goes for the upgrades as you stated, i do use the R CG for them and also cycle through
one other thing i didn't mention is the return cargo button. i bound it to V cause it was the closest key i could find that i wouldn't miss many presses. i find it important to press it especially when u are transferring workers to gas and ppl should be incouraged to use it more! i found it not being easy for me with the original layout.
to finish up i do respect and agree that the Ctrl+ thing is a bit of a stretch into the less keystrokes way so sorry for that  didn't mean to confuse new users (or old) and i do, since i'm a thecore user aswell, try to combine the two which can leave to some overlay :D either way this is the best non "hardcore" layout out there! once again congrats on that! :D
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@naxi
+ Show Spoiler +-Sorry, I should have been clearer. For all 3 races I use tab for small groups of units that are scouting or harassing. For Terran/Protoss I use alt-Q for cc/nexus, alt-w for barracks/gates, alt-e for factory/robo, alt-r for ports/stargates. As you can see, it is super intuitive going between the two. For zerg, I use alt-q for all hatcheries, I use alt-w for main, alt-e for natural, alt-r for third. If I want to produce a bunch of units and I don't care where they come from I just use alt-q, if I need to be more specific I can. I believe this is very close to the suggested usage you have.
Hey I like that idea. I'm just playing around with it now and as Zerg I find that I'm really missing the Tab>Q>W and Tab>Q>E motions. Seems like slightly more work when it comes to Zerg production, and also when looking to drop quick Scans and MULES as Terran. To be honest though, I like the feel of rolling my fingers across Q,W,E,R like this. Easier to monitor things, yet slightly more inconvenient to control your CC's/Nexus//Hatcheries. I can definitely see the appeal in it despite said disadvantage.
Perhaps I missed this detail, but I see that you're basically using Tab for another unit Control Group and moving the bindings on Q,W,E,R over one key-- where do you put your upgrade/tech structures now? Do you still bind them?
+ Show Spoiler +-Mouseless backspace is really, really good, but for whatever reason in the early game I've fallen into the habit of going to a base using the camera location hoteky, selecting the queen and injecting manually. I'm currently trying to break that habit, because while it does offer some control it is slow and clunky. I think I was just frustrated with wandering queens and did it this way as a temporary solution. My next 15-20 games are actually dedicated to getting my injects more fluid. I'm just having trouble with queen wandering when I have more hatches than queens.
I getcha. Wandering Queens can be a problem with any method that bundles all Queens on to one hotkey group. It's also possible to get wandering Queens even with the Camera/Layered method, but that's never mentioned for some reason. Just one wrong click on the wrong Hatch can send a Queen wandering, but there are ways around this.
A couple things regarding wandering Queens when using Backspace methods:- Mouseless method - Issue a Hold Position command after injecting, but remember to let go of Shift before giving the Hold command . This cuts your Shift-commanded inject orders short, and it will keep the Queens next to their closest Hatch every time provided that you inject fairly quick. It's easier than it sounds.
- Suggested Backspace method using mouse - Use only S+Space Bar and Click for each Hatch (don't use Shift). Doing this quickly tells each Queen to inject the nearest Hatch only once, and then issuing a Hold command will keep them in place just in case you are at risk of wandering Queens. S+Space Bar then Click can be done nearly simultaneously, so it feels like only 3 keystrokes including the Queen selection step (Caps Lock in default Alloy). This is how I used to do it all the time, and I still think it's a great way to do Backspace injects. The one downside is you may need to get a little used to timing your keystrokes right with your clicks when performing this method extremely fast. I personally prefer this method.
So basically, try adding Hold Position to your methods, and your Queens will be fine under any circumstance. Hold Position is on W by default with Alloy, so it's as close as possible to your Spawn Larva command. Hold also helps out quite a bit when it comes to dealing with drops as well, because your Queens will only attack what's in range and not wander toward the dropped/harassing enemies. They stay put so you don't have to worry about them as much.
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Hi, I would like to try out this hotkeys, but I am having trouble installing it. I download the file and then I save it or drag it from the folder it goes to and put it in the Hotkeys folder for SC2 accounts. I think the problem is that it is a a notepad file, because my other hotkey setup I made was a "SC2Hotkeys" file or something. Can anyone please help me so that I can try out these hotkeys?
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On July 01 2013 20:18 chronocross7 wrote:
Hi, I would like to try out this hotkeys, but I am having trouble installing it. I download the file and then I save it or drag it from the folder it goes to and put it in the Hotkeys folder for SC2 accounts. I think the problem is that it is a a notepad file, because my other hotkey setup I made was a "SC2Hotkeys" file or something. Can anyone please help me so that I can try out these hotkeys?
First suggestion is to check out the "Give it a Try" subsection in the OP, it will tell you most of what I'll be telling you here. There's a subsection in both of the Element and Alloy main sections, so check that out first. Or, just read this post:- Make sure this is where you're plugging them into: C:\Users\Username\MyDocuments\Starcraft II\Accounts\AccountNumber\Hotkeys. If there is no "Hotkeys" folder there, then create it manually and plug the hotkey files in there.
- Make sure the files were "Downloaded" and not "Saved As". If "Saved As", they wind up looking like this http://i.imgur.com/8mNJpLZ.jpg
- Check the properties of the file by Right-Clicking on the file and Clicking "Properties", and it should tell you the file format and what it opens with. If the filetype says "SC2HOTKEYS (.SC2Hotkeys file)", then it should be fine. If not, then I suggest deleting that file and re-Downloading. They should be ok, as I'm looking at my Dropbox folder now and seeing that they are all .SC2Hotkeys files.
You can open up SC2hotkeys files with notepad fine. In fact, many people will use it to edit their bindings instead of going through the game's UI.
Opening up these files with notepad is an association setting that you must have created yourself, and that's ok, because the file format will be untouched despite being accessible with notepad.
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@orgganon
+ Show Spoiler +ok, so i made that "declaration" cause i've seen a lot of nerd rage against Jak and thecore developers in regards of their league placement and stuff... (why the hell does it matter where u are placed for ppl to take you serious? Catz isn't top 8 GM in America and he comes up with insane strats before the whole world and ppl still take him into account! the same for WhiteRa). nevertheless, i think ppl like you and Jak (along with all developers) deserve the credit for time and work put into these things (which is a lot!)
Makes sense. Still, I don't think the defender thing is a great way to go about things; it can put otherwise friendly or neutral people in a defensive stance instantly. Early on I received the same thing you're talking about here from people who were "defenders" of whatever (yes, some but not all were users of TheCore too), and initially I would suddenly find myself being defensive towards them, not really knowing what to expect. Nowadays I'd just rather ask people about their point of view instead of getting defensive with them about it.
What I've dealt with so far is probably not anywhere near the amount JaK and his crew has though. I suppose by taking on TheStaircase, TheCore and hosting a stream (dat promotion), people would expect more "credibility" (gauged strictly by ladder rank; a flawed way to measure worth for sure). Not everyone pours all of their efforts into ranked Ladder games and bases their success off of it. Casters are probably one of the best examples of that, and many of them are held in high regard by the community despite this. Overall, I don't really worry about this kind of thing, but I do see how it is/can be. There is a bright side to this though. You do get people who support what you do and appreciate your efforts for what they are, and those people really help keep you moving. I think anyone who received some positive feedback or appreciation regarding something they've done can understand this.
+ Show Spoiler +injects: haven't tried the fleet with zerg yet since i started playing toss haven't played zerg but the minimap rapidfire thingy is definitely something to look and try! when i do i'll give my thoughts on it. i just feel more confortable and in control when i "cam inject". queens all in 1 group , select, press inject then cycle through bases with cam keys and just alternate key and click. i can assure i inject 6 bases in less than 1 sec though my mecanics aren't that great and my apm is around 75 :D (this is mostly due to the "less keystrokes" way of thinking)
Well if you're ever curious as to why the injects are the way they are, give them a try! Who knows, you might find some sort of middleground between your ZRM layout (just a guess) and Alloy Zerg. All I can say is Alloy Zerg injects feel really, really good. Adding to and selecting your Queens Control Group is also really easy, and Hold Position is right next to Spawn Larva, so any room for error has been cut down significantly. On top of all that, most of (if not all) the other inject methods that exist feel smooth too. Just hop into a vs AI game and see what I mean; you'll have a much better understanding of Alloy Zerg.
+ Show Spoiler +as the Z-C changes regards: i find it easier to have those keys just for cams. what i did was allocate the former binds to the free keys u suggested (T;G;B) with the habilities less used. the major reason was those were already on ASD and one thing i never expected to be so awesome is the multi functiom spacebar! i use it with those essential things so no need to really have them there. one thing i'd like to state and hope jak reads this too, is that i morphed the multi function key on the core layout! (if you want i can discuss it too but this thread wouldn't be the place for it ) one thing left to say in the cams department is why i find easy to NOT Alt+(ZXC): i binded Z to chrono cam (with most of the gates on it), X to the wall off cam (usually at the natural) and C to the warp in cam (usually at a warp prism or a forward pylon) so this way i can cycle faster and not use modifiers.
As far as the Smart Key goes, I'm surprised that it hasn't been assimilated into their layout yet. There are people involved in these projects that like to keep an eye out for what's going on, and I'm sure someone's mentioned it to them or they've seen it just from checking things out, so who knows, it could be in the works or could have been totally dismissed. At some point, I'm sure we'll see a layout come around that takes all the good ideas of all the available layouts and attempts to meld them together in a single working design-- it's just a matter of when, and who would be willing to do it. As it stands now, Fleet Keys and TheCore are at two opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to design, so I think that the person willing to helm a project like that would have a lot of hard work ahead of them, especially if they wanted it to be tournament legal and fairly easy to grasp. What you're doing now kind of foreshadows this, and I'm sure as more users want the best of both worlds like you, it will come about in some form, sooner or later.
+ Show Spoiler +as for the MMB: i just use it to cycle subgroups to discourage the use of drag cam since i believe we should always cam hotkey and hotkey move (not that it shouldn't be done, it's just that i'm lazy and if i do it i'll gain that bad habit)! also i use a Razer Abyssus therefore i don't have side buttons but with side buttons it's definitely the bind to do!
the warpgates button (Alt+MMB) i don't really use since my production is on Q so i select production and the gates are favoured over the robos so, for example, i'm in a battle and need to warp in
- Alt+Q (select production)
- C (go to pylon or prism)
- Q (for zealots)
- Shift+S (to empty gates)
- MMB (to change to robos)
- R (to queue colossus)
- then go on with adding to CG and doubletapping on army CG to get back to battle
3 or 4 secs in total with the lowest amount of APM.
the same goes for the upgrades as you stated, i do use the R CG for them and also cycle through
Drag Scrolling a bad habit? You can only hotkey so many Camera Locations, and a some point, you will have to scroll your screen to get to places (most likely through Edge Scroll). Drag Scrolling with the sensitivity turned up to the maximum setting is actually a lot quicker than Edge Scrolling, can save you a lot of time, and can also become very precise with some practice. I use an Abyssus as well. I often use my Drag Scroll to jump to areas that have no hotkeyed Camera Locations and extra Creep spread paths (basically replaces clicking down on the Minimap constantly to get everywhere). At this point in time I feel Edge Scrolling is on the top of my list of bad habits.
On the other hand, I don't normally use tabbed production, so for me, MMB isn't competing with subgroup selections, so I can see the reasoning behind your binding. If I did use tabbed production, I would use a mouse with side buttons and keep the bindings as I normally would suggest (MMB being Drag Scroll, side mouse buttons being Next/Previous Subgroup Selection.
+ Show Spoiler +one other thing i didn't mention is the return cargo button. i bound it to V cause it was the closest key i could find that i wouldn't miss many presses. i find it important to press it especially when u are transferring workers to gas and ppl should be incouraged to use it more! i found it not being easy for me with the original layout.
Yeah, I bound it to a key that isn't taking up vital keyboard space, somewhere out of the way. My decision to keep it out of the way was also backed by a couple things like:
- Your base structure is always really close to your mineral patches and gasses--you can just Shift+Right Click the base, and then send your workers wherever.
- Ctrl+Clicking doesn't separately select workers, so you can't Ctrl+Click workers holding resources and press the Return Cargo key, and then Ctrl+Click the empty ones and send them on their way through a single keystroke.
- In Alloy, you get a really compact and optimized Unit Command row (Q-R), and then you get the A-F abilities. This leaves little immediate room for a feature most people simply don't use.
- As much as I generally discourage T,G,B with Fleet Keys (poor Element and its T for Attack key), Y,H,N is almost not even an option. I could put them there, but I felt like putting the lesser-used commands on F-keys a much easier way to identify that they were being left out by simply looking at the Command Card (a visual aid or sorts that makes even more sense as time goes on).
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please don't get me wrong, if i said i'm a defender of thecore i didn't mean to underate any of the other key layouts! (i know u got it just wanted to put it out)
the core isn't in real need of the smart key cause the purpose is to have less keystrokes, so all the habilities are bound in a way that makes it intuitive so they probably never even considered it :D (no harm done there i guess, though i do use it)
actually after reading your post i realized i'm using edge scroll a lot more than i wanted (or should). i have to force myself to not use it a lot though since i used to be a drag scroller and thought it was bad cause it prevented me from using cam keys... maybe it's time to go back to drag cause i got used to cam with keys, makes more sense now!
will have to re-think the MMB
as far as being in oposite ends, alow me to disagree, it's 2 really good and user aimed layouts and that's enough! which suites anyone better is a matter of prefference. they do work in different ways with different goals but that's just a mechanical question.
whoa... Ctrl+click... selecting which ones are carrying... :O Shift+click base i do use... the rest is a bit too much for my mechanics! ahahah i play too little to do much more than box+click+hit return cargo :D
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@eneyeseekay
Perhaps I missed this detail, but I see that you're basically using Tab for another unit Control Group and moving the bindings on Q,W,E,R over one key-- where do you put your upgrade/tech structures now? Do you still bind them?
I don't bind upgrade/tech structures. They usually end up being in the vicinity of a camera location and upgrades take so long to research that I'm fairly comfortable just manually clicking on the building to start the next set of upgrades.
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@orgganon
Drag Scroll can feel a bit jarring at first because you're physically grabbing the camera and panning it around, but it feels really good as you go. I always say to just max the speed setting and go from there. Here are some tips/benefits for you or anyone else considering the use of Drag Scrolling:- Use the camera frame (the square on the minimap) to guide you while Drag Scrolling. This forces you to be so much more aware of the Minimap, and map awareness is huuuuuge!
- You can produce units while Drag Scrolling! Not sure if this requires much explaining, but it's an important point to note.
- The cursor disappears when holding in the Drag Scroll key, but it stays where you left it. Personally, the cursor disappearing annoyed me a bit at first, but the cursor locking for the duration was nice. I hope Blizzard includes an option to keep the cursor visible some day.
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Why not use Q-R for cc's/rax/fact/star?
Isn't it easier to roll down a macro cycle holding alt the entire time instead of having to throw it in there randomly?
Doesn't seem you can bind alt+shift+tab either to add to group =/
Drag scroll is completely second nature to me since casting games quite a bit. Mouse scroll has always been awkward for me, I grew up playing BW using arrow keys for pan (reaaaaaally bad habit eh).
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@decemberscalm
Drag Scroll is second nature for you? That's pretty awesome! How do you like it when used in-game (as you being the active player)? Is there anything you might want to add regarding Drag Scrolling?
I like how everything on Q-R feels for monitoring production, but if you take into account all of the actions performed with your CC/Nexus/Hatchery, it quickly begins to feel like a separately managed structure rather than just another production building. Here are a few reasons why putting them all on Q-R hasn't become the default way of the layouts, despite the monitoring part feeling nice:- Your CC/Hatch/Nexus (lets call it "base") produces the fastest-to-train units, and in Zerg's case, that fact is even more present. Chances are you won't be getting from 6 to 60+ workers completely uninterrupted, so it's a long road to maximum saturation off of 3 bases. That's a long time constantly producing your fastest trained unit, especially when taking into account workers lost along the way.
- Your bases (with T & P mainly), have macro abilities tied to them, and they need to be accessed and spent ASAP and as frequently as possible (unless the build calls for holding them) to avoid any opportunity loss. So not only are you making workers at scattered 17 second intervals, you also need to spend you Chronoboosts, MULES, Scans when needed (although less applicable in this case). Then you get Queen production, base morphing, and upgrades as Zerg. Zerg is also different because of the natural Larva re-spawning, which happens faster than Drones are even morphed.
- As Zerg, your base is also your rax/fact/port so you will be forced to use it more than any other structure of any race. You're also forced to select Larva before morphing anything, so that is an extra keystroke in itself that you cannot efficiently circumvent. By having Q-R already under a modifier and considering the positive/negative feedback received for that, having Hatcheries on Alt+Q would be a big dealbreaker for most (why there is a Select Warpgate command at this point and not a Select Larvae command is beyond me).
- In the case of Alloy, you only have to ever drop your fingers in an alternating motion to perform said unit production commands and base macro abilities; some examples of this would be: Tab>Q, Tab>W, Tab>Q>W, Tab>Q>Q. It's a helpful refinement to allow you to spend the least amount of time doing everything mentioned above. The custom Smart Key and its default bindings allow you to squeeze even more time out of it, by allowing you to drop your finger on Tab, then Space Bar, then click. It's about as fast as you can make it while keeping everything familiar.
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I am already a avid minimap clicker, but for slight adjustments I can't even pretend to try edge scrolling over dragon.
Drag scrolling in theory seems like it should be superior in every way for slight adjustments compared to edge scrolling, especially due to your mouse not changing position.
The one thing that bugs me is that the center on unit command is very easy to trigger when drag scrolling. I'll have to actually change that to something else. It is basically incompatible with drag scroll because of how easy it to accidentally do it.
It is shift+middle mouse button if I'm not mistaken, which means if I am doing something like putting turrets around a base it will always trigger when I try to que up the commands. Or if I put down a building a little too far off from the minerals but close enough to just drag scroll to it easily the shift command back to the mineral line will trigger it.
I'm trying to get used to tab vs shift+alt+Q. So far I'm at the point where my 2 toss base macro is all well and spent fine enough. It is definently one of the less friendly aspects though.
It has been a joy to learn so far though.
I do have one idea. Sub group selection from F1-F2 to F1-F4. This would make hitting the proper F keys much easier (akin to removing F3-F4 keys). Might be useful for those people who just feel awkward trying to hit up to the F rows.
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@decemberscalm
I'm glad to hear you've been enjoying it so far!
There didn't seem to be much room left for the Center on Current Selection command, so I figured the best spot at the time was Shift+MMB. Seemed obscure enough so you wouldn't use it by accident, but accessible should you ever need it. This however, was before I began experimenting more heavily with Drag Scrolling. I've since hit Shit+MMB at times when I didn't want it, and I totally see your point. Right now, it's not really optimal. Even if I do this once every couple matches, I would still rather not have it happen. Having said that----
Do you have any suggestions as to where it could go? Is it even important enough to keep? Ideally, one could get better at Drag Scrolling and line up the camera well enough to emulate the effect of centering. Or, one could simply click once on the unit portrait (I'm pretty sure it's only used for prepping Camera injects atm). As of now I feel like competent Drag Scrolling or clicking the portrait could allow for cutting the Center on Current Selection command out, but perhaps I'm missing something?
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nice point there with the drag scrolling...
justa suggestion, have you guys tried binding something like Alt + Right mouse click to center the cam?
would still be acessible and not a frequently used combo... that poped to mind cause ctrl and shift are used to queue commands and create CG so might be a margin for a miss click.
other acessibl combos are ctrl + alt + right click; or ctrl + shift + middle click; or alt + shift + left click...
so many possibilities... why not even alt+tab? :D
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Hello, I am trying to learn the Alloy fleet keys layout for zerg.
Everything seems to be working great, but I have a couple questions.
In order to switch to different cameras, I have to deselect my units/buildings. But I can't seem to find a way to deselect units, ESC doesn't work, I tried rebinding all the keys that use ESC and it still doesn't work.
And Question 2, Do I have to do a registry edit in order to turn off caps lock while I am playing starcraft 2?
Thanks!
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On July 04 2013 02:22 darkling wrote:
Hello, I am trying to learn the Alloy fleet keys layout for zerg.
Everything seems to be working great, but I have a couple questions.
In order to switch to different cameras, I have to deselect my units/buildings. But I can't seem to find a way to deselect units, ESC doesn't work, I tried rebinding all the keys that use ESC and it still doesn't work.
And Question 2, Do I have to do a registry edit in order to turn off caps lock while I am playing starcraft 2?
Thanks!
Hey there, you shouldn't be forced to de-select units when switching to other cameras. Alt+A-F, and Alt+Z-V are where the Camera Location bindings are currently located. If you have units selected and press Alt+A, the camera switches and you also keep your selection. In the very early iterations of Fleet Keys, Alt had a double binding, but that feature was cut long ago due to de-selection issues. Perhaps you have an older Fleet keys file in your hotkeys folder?
In response to question 2, the answer is "nnooooope". The layouts are designed so that modifications of any kind aren't necessary. If you have a basic keyboard, and a mouse with a middle mouse button, you can make use of the layout as intended.
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After doing a fair amount of testing today, these are the changes I'm thinking of implementing. If anyone wants to try these out, be my guest. I'll leave this post up, but after about a day I will push the changes through, so if any of you have any really strong and sound objections to the proposed changes and reasoning, offer me yours. Also, testing the settings for yourself will help you understand them the most, so yeah.. Let me know what you all think after trying them out.
CENTER ON CURRENT SELECTION
Currently: Shift + Middle Mouse Button
Proposing: Ctrl + Middle Mouse Button
Main Reasons and Thoughts:- 1. Ctrl + A-F and Z-V create the 8 available Camera Locations. Often times, the first few cameras are created for each base, centered over the base structure (CC, Nexus Hatchery). While being quite important, (depending on the player) the Center on Current Selection command is not really used for many reasons aside from base structure centering when preparing cameras for Camera (aka Layered) Injects, or general purpose base cameras. Ctrl + Middle Mouse Button flows extremely well while creating said cameras, effectively shaving off keystrokes and increasing the speed and ease of camera creation.
- 2. This command no longer gets in the way of issuing any type of "Shift +" commands while Drag Scrolling. Even pressing Shift by accident while Drag Scrolling and activating was becoming a common occurrence, resulting in hampered play.
- 3. Nothing else known at this time is negatively affected by this change. It appears to be a safe binding, and also one that results in a slight efficiency increase.
CANCEL TARGETING
Currently: Right Click
Proposing: Keeping Right Click, adding W as alternate.
Main Reasons and Thoughts:- 1. While injects are easy to perform with the layouts, and feel all-around great, wandering Queens can still pose a problem for some users who wish to use any method aside from the "44v, Click" variants. Wandering Queens is not a flaw of the layout, rather, a potential disadvantage of the methods used. Given that, I tried and tested new ways of managing Queens during post-Injection. I wanted to make putting Queens on Hold Position after a multi-base Inject round even easier, and I'm happy to say there's been some improvement in that area.
- 2. For any method employing Shift + Spawn Larva key, there are now two methods to force the Queens to stay put. After an Inject round with Queens selected, press W,W. This Cancels the Inject target on the Queens, and then immediately places them on Hold Position. Apart from double-tapping W, you can achieve the same effect by pressing Right Click, W. Tapping W twice only applies when the Spawn Larva (or any targeted ability for that matter) is active.
- 3. While the Right Click, W sequence works quick, often times Right Clicking can accidentally order your Queens to move, especially if the W is delayed. Depending on whether you end your Inject round with a target being displayed or not, the W, W sequence is always going to work, 100% of the time. No wandering, no accidental Move commands. Pressing W in the past (while targeting) did not allow the Hold Position command to register, the game ignored it completely because the command card changed and the unit that was targeting temporarily lost its Unit Command abilities. This fixes that.
- 4. Does not seem to conflict with any other command or action, as Hold Position tells units to stay put to begin with, most likely canceling a spell or command anyway. Hold Position on its own still functions as intended, and production structures aren't affected by W's target canceling binding.
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@eneyeseekay:
I'd like to thank you for this great keyboard layout and all the work you put into it! I am a fairly new StarCraft 2 player (infact, I'm only a few weeks in so far). Learning the hotkeys, I found it kinda awkward that I had to move my whole hand around to use half of the control groups (6-0). So I tried FleetKeys (Alloy) and after only a few games, I was certain to keep it. It's easy to learn and feels alot more optimized than the default Grid layout. Just awesome! =)
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Thanks Luzzifus! I hope the layout (I assume you're using Alloy?) serves you well. The long distance reaching and the scattered mnemonics-based hotkeys really pushed me to create these layouts. I would say that Grid in most ways is more optimized than Standard too, so a refined Grid-based layout is actually a few steps up from Standard if you look at it that way.
If you're up for it, please feel free to apply those slight changes I proposed in my last post and see how they are. The more feedback the better!
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Yes, I'm using Alloy. Another issue that made me look for something else than Grid was the actions being placed on Y-V. Especially for buildings I didn't like to push like Y,W or Y,D. Using A instead is so much easier for my fingers! Same goes for abilities.
Concerning your proposed changes, I'm not totally sure if I can really contribute with the little experience I have so far, but I'll try!
The double W tapping idea to put queens on hold sounds good and intuitive to me. I'll definitely try that!
I have to admit that I never used the center on selection command yet, but for me personally, the middle mouse button always feels a little awkward to press. Not just in the game, but more or less anywhere. Maybe because it's mostly pressing down the wheel which I'm trying to do super slowly and precisely to not turn it up or down at the same time. So if I had to use that command frequently, I'd rather bind it to one of my side mouse buttons instead. But I do understand you cannot assume that everybody has those buttons available. Using ctrl instead of shift sounds good to me though.
**edit:
I also found a pretty easy way to disable CapsLock from switching between upper- and lowercase, and that is a simple AutoHotkey script (I've read it is allowed to use it as far as one obeys the one-key-one-action-rule, correct me if I'm wrong):
+ Show Spoiler +$*CapsLock::
Send {CapsLock}
SetCapsLockState Off
Return
This will simply set the CapsLock state to "off" everytime you press it, so no more accidental yelling at other nice people. =) It also works if you press any modifier keys simultaneously (like shift + caps to add to Queens group).
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@Luzzifus
Hey you can totally contribute given your experience. I'm trying to filter out layout issues with these little refinements like undesirable and accidental commands caused directly by the layout's bindings. Shift+MMB as Center on Current Selection was becoming a big problem because people are beginning to ramp up their Drag Scroll ability; the Shift+MMB was too easy to activate during multitasking. I'm also trying to give players more reliable options for circumventing things that can't be worked out because of the way the game itself behaves in common scenarios. A shining example is the wandering Queens problem. Getting rid of this issue completely is made even more difficult by the fact that the unit Command Cards are stripped of abilities during targeting. I see this W binding as one more option to by-pass this and I feel like it's a huge improvement for Zerg play (and it's an extremely safe was as well)!
Drag Scroll:
If you don't plan on using tabbed production and you have side buttons, then they can be fine alternatives for Drag Scrolling. I actually experimented with Alt by itself as the Drag Scroll key, and it felt pretty insane (in both good and bad ways, needless to say it wasn't a great place for it). I also think Ctrl would not end up working well either (although I haven't tested it), as one single key miss could overwrite any of your Control Groups and Cameras. For the default settings of Fleet keys overall, I settled on MMB mainly because it lightens the load on your keyboard hand, it's safe, it allows you to produce units from your structures while using it, and MMB is a common mouse feature that Starcraft 2 is not hard-coded to in any way. There is however coding that restricts the use of scroll wheel bindings. Like I said though, side buttons can be fine alternatives.
Regarding your edit:
Are you running SC2 on a Mac? I've heard of issues involving the Caps Lock key (it basically toggles on and off). A script to fix this is fine if you have no other way around it, but on PC these scripts aren't (shouldn't be) required use these layouts. I doubt they would ask you to use a Mac at a LAN event anyway, so I think you'll be safe.
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No, no Mac for games here, I'm running Windows 7. Still the CapsLock key toggles between upper and lower case (german keyboard layout, QWERTZ). FleetKeys does indeed work fine even without the script, but I don't want to accidentally type everything in uppercase when I chat while playing.
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Ok, so the updates are all done. Here's the full list of everything that was added/changed.
New Bindings- CameraCenter=Control+MiddleMouseButton
- CameraFollow=Control+Alt+MiddleMouseButton
- TargetCancel=RightMouseButton,W (QWERTY Example)
Other Changes- All Cheat Sheets updated to accurately reflect the new .SC2Hotkey files. These new images and links are now in the OP and ready to go!
- All .SC2Hotkey files replaced/updated.
- HotS_Multiplayer_FK_Alloy_AZERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN - Now fixed. Remaining QWERTY bindings removed for respective races.
Thanks to everyone who tried out the bindings and gave feedback, it's much appreciated! As always, if something is broken, don't hesitate to report it!
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Just wanted to say I'm enjoying Fleet Keys (Alloy) more and more. I've reverted everything to default and added D as an alternate for some abilities as it's a more comfortable key for me to reach (with the index) than say, A or S, while managing unit groups.
I've also switched one or two space bar commands (like PDD for raven) and changed CTRL to be the "add to group" command but only for buildings (letter groups) as adding production ones is something you do ten thousand times more than rebinding them, while I rebind units a lot.
So far so good, I'm starting to use camera locations more and more (which I never did before). Using alt for production (actually, having to release it to actually produce units) is a bit awkward still, but it's slowly starting to become natural. I'm finding myself macroing a lot better than before during fights (then again my hotkeys were so unoptimal before that it's not a surprise).
Will soon try the AZERTY one, thanks for the update!
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@PoP
Hey there! Ctrl+Q,W,E,R always felt nice to me too. The main thing that worries me the most about it is Q-R being in a really central location of the layout. It's surrounded by bindings that are created with Ctrl+, so one miss when adding to Q-R with Ctrl+ will surely create/overwrite unwanted Unit Groups and Camera Locations. Shift+Alt+Q-R is a command that does have potential overlap with 1-6, but not Camera Locations. It also leaves your thumb ready for Alt+ selections across Q-R immediately after adding because you're still holding Alt. I know it isn't as fluid as Ctrl+ in terms of raw keystrokes, what with the built-in "select all on screen" command, but Shift+Alt+Q-R is 100% safer when it comes to not accidentally overwriting Camera Locations.
@All
I'm actually really torn on this tbh. On one hand, it's definitely an improvement for adding to your structure groups, but on the other hand, it's more risky for anyone who doesn't have really accurate keystrokes.
A nice thing about using Ctrl+ to add to Q-R is that it feels a lot like using Shift+ to add to the 1-6 Control Groups which is a nice subtle point that helps make it a bit more intuitive, so it can work comfortably for the most part as far as "the feel" of it goes.
Does anybody have anything to add to this? If so, please do!
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eneyeseekay: I think the idle worker key is (still?) wrong on azerty layout. It should be the top-leftmost key right? It seems swapped with medivac heal which is a key that is way on the right.
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@PoP
Yeah I'm looking at that now..
I don't normally mind admitting a mistake, but I honestly have no idea what this is all about. Apostrophe is verrrry far away from the Grave/Tilde key. It seems that both Element and Alloy AZERTY layouts have this strange miss-binding. Since I created these on a QWERTY keyboard, Apostrophe lands on the total opposite end of the keyboard. Strannnge.. Thanks a bunch for pointing this out .
I'm going to fix this up right now, and then release a tester file of HotS Alloy for Protoss & Terran (in all 3 keyboard types). I'm choosing T&P because their production applies to the whole Ctrl+Q-R for appending to Control Groups the most. It also saves me a ton of time in the short term, so yeah.. Updates with incoming shortly!
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Apparently, "Apostrophe" in the hotkey file does refer to that key (which produces a ², btw). For some reason.
It is bound to medivac heal in the version you posted.
I wish we french could use an qwerty keyboard like everyone else in the world... (The only reason I'm not switching is because I work at a company where all my colleagues have azerty :/)
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On July 06 2013 07:03 PoP wrote:Apparently, "Apostrophe" in the hotkey file does refer to that key (which produces a ², btw). For some reason. It is bound to medivac heal in the version you posted. I wish we french could use an qwerty keyboard like everyone else in the world... (The only reason I'm not switching is because I work at a company where all my colleagues have azerty :/)
PHEW! 
I got through about half of the files until I started doubting myself on the whole ' and ` thing. It's a good thing I stopped before I finished therm. It's also good thing I keep backups.. Thanks PoP! I'll check out that Medivac binding now.
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I'll try out control+MMB. Seems like it should be less problematic for drag scroll.
One question. I really like having a standout camera for rallies and such.
I'm looking mainly at the space bar button for a potential cam for rallies and whatever spot I want to keep an eye at.
If you've already got all your spell locations memorized and can execute everything without it, is there any reason at all to keep spacebar around for commands? I'm really tempted. Maybe I could just get used to using Z or something as a rally cam. Anyone think about something like this?
I've got shift engrained as add, and control as set, no way I could have them be intertwined.
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Don't mean to be rude but, is any high tier korean/european pro using a setup like this ?
I don't see the point when clearly the keyboard layout is not the thing that limits any player.
Sorry for the rudeness, but i've seen a myriad of hotkey layout threads and I wanted to know the reasoning behind them.
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On July 06 2013 08:16 Gool wrote:
Don't mean to be rude but, is any high tier korean/european pro using a setup like this ?
I don't see the point when clearly the keyboard layout is not the thing that limits any player.
Sorry for the rudeness, but i've seen a myriad of hotkey layout threads and I wanted to know the reasoning behind them.
Pro's practice so much changing to a new hotkey setup would completely screw them up.
This is just impossible for people who have tournies and matches every week.
It helps reduce strain (think of how many injuries could have been avoided).
It also helps efficiency.
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On July 06 2013 08:16 Gool wrote:
Don't mean to be rude but, is any high tier korean/european pro using a setup like this ?
I don't see the point when clearly the keyboard layout is not the thing that limits any player.
Sorry for the rudeness, but i've seen a myriad of hotkey layout threads and I wanted to know the reasoning behind them.
There are no pros that I know of. I often wonder the same thing though.
As for the reasoning behind them, I think most people who decide to take on projects like this start by looking at Standard or Grid on their own, and then think "Well what if I changed this? And then this? Ok, this feels better.", and then eventually they just re-map the layout based on what works for them. Before you know it, there's a thread featuring the layout and other players want to try it out as well. I personally find that process really fun. I love tinkering around with the hotkeys and working with people on them. Some people like commentating, playing, coaching, producing content (media/sorftware/etc), spectating, or simply interacting with other fans in stream chats, there are so many facets of the game that people enjoy taking part in.
You're also right that the layouts don't limit the players, at least not directly anyway. We don't have a solid way to measure that theory yet, but we do see people of all leagues who enjoy using the layouts. Some people switch from years of playing to try out new hotkey layouts, so there's some sort of appeal that draws them to these threads. Something to consider about top-end players/pros is the fact that a lot if not all of them are players with years of experience using the Standard layouts that predate any serious, tournament-legal custom SC2 layout. Their careers and competitive momentum depend A LOT on their muscle memory and mechanics, so anyone worth their salt right now most likely can't afford to make the switch (or perhaps they don't care? That's also a possibility).
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On July 06 2013 07:35 decemberscalm wrote:
I'll try out control+MMB. Seems like it should be less problematic for drag scroll.
One question. I really like having a standout camera for rallies and such.
I'm looking mainly at the space bar button for a potential cam for rallies and whatever spot I want to keep an eye at.
If you've already got all your spell locations memorized and can execute everything without it, is there any reason at all to keep spacebar around for commands? I'm really tempted. Maybe I could just get used to using Z or something as a rally cam. Anyone think about something like this?
I've got shift engrained as add, and control as set, no way I could have them be intertwined.
-Ctrl+MMB has no overlap in situations where you'd be using Drag Scroll, so that's good. Also, you cannot Ctr+Left Click things while Drag Scrolling, so Ctrl+MMB should be a deliberate combination for all players. Shift+MMB was a bit of a pain because you might want to Drag your camera onto a target when looking for a spell target or even while trying to Shift+Move units around. It was really easy to screw up your screen position this way.
-I'd use Z-V for a Rally cam, or even Caps Lock if you don't use Base Camera.
-Space Bar can really speed up a bunch of your commands. If you're totally comfortable with all of the commands, then I guess you now have a free hotkey to work with! A Rally Cam here wouldn't be a bad idea. I would still try to find a solution that works for you before the removing the Smart Key bindings though. It's got a ton of utility.
-Shift is ingrained in my head as well, haha.. While trying out Ctrl+Q-R, I had to change the way I thought about what I was actually doing to get around it quicker. I basically separated buildings and units from each other in my head. Treating them differently definitely takes some getting used to, but it "feels" easy once you have in your mindset that Q-R are designated building CG's. It's a little weird to explain. I am still really torn on the whole idea, but I can't deny the many positive aspects of it.
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I've tried out a few different hotkey setups as they are extremely interesting to me.
One of the great advantages this hotkey setup is just the sheer simplicity and ease of learning it compared to some of the others I've seen. And with the simplicity comes ease of customization. If someone doesn't like layered cams or layered control groups they can simply bind them back to F's and 1-0.
Basing it off grid definently helps as you've got visual aid for memorization.
I think the main oddities arise with the whole holding both shift and alt to add, but only control key to set for control groups.
I think you are better off leaving the normal conventions alone for shift and control but write about the benefits of changing it for buildings. Leave it as an option but not the default.
Super efficient layouts are great, but simply switching to an efficient hotkey setup in the first place is more important. For that to happen it has to be easy to just get into and learn. Otherwise you are losing a lot of people before they are able to put time into the setup. Intuitive is really nice to have.
But that is just like, my opinion man ^^.
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The test files are now up, let's see how this goes..
Download files can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a34d7t3iq6hwpeq/xE4ZRyBxDU
The AZERTY files now seem to be all fixed up (as far as I can tell, hahaha). The new files are uploaded as well, and only apply to the AZERTY files.
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On July 06 2013 13:23 eneyeseekay wrote:
-I'd use Z-V for a Rally cam, or even Caps Lock if you don't use Base Camera.
What do you think of Ctrl + Caps Lock / Alt + Caps Lock as a "special camera" (non-base) location?
I've been experimenting with that for my rally/main choke camera and it feels pretty natural so far. What I don't like about Z and X is that they're pretty uncomfortable hitting with Alt (C/V are fine though), and since you often need to reach 1 right after it's a little bit too far off I feel.
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On July 06 2013 18:44 PoP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 13:23 eneyeseekay wrote:
-I'd use Z-V for a Rally cam, or even Caps Lock if you don't use Base Camera.
What do you think of Ctrl + Caps Lock / Alt + Caps Lock as a "special camera" (non-base) location? I've been experimenting with that for my rally/main choke camera and it feels pretty natural so far. What I don't like about Z and X is that they're pretty uncomfortable hitting with Alt (C/V are fine though), and since you often need to reach 1 right after it's a little bit too far off I feel.
Yeah sorry I didn't explain the Caps Lock bit in that post. What I was saying was one could get rid of using Caps Lock for Base Camera if they didn't like using it. They could bind Ctrl+Caps Lock to create the "Special Camera", and then simply press Caps Lock to Recall it. I think the binding you mentioned would apply to most players better though. Ctrl+Caps Lock to create, and Alt+Caps Lock to recall is much better for most situations, as you're pressing Alt+A-V for your other cameras already, Alt+Caps Lock falls in line with that-- keeps it all consistent. It even allows you to keep the Base Camera command bound so you don't lose any utility. This is also a really safe binding because Alt+Tab is disabled, and Alt+Shift does nothing on its own, so a keystroke miss won't punish you. Ideally (after doing a bit of testing with it), I found that the create/recall binding on Caps Lock is better off being set as an alternate binding of the A-V camera of your choice. You still get that "special camera" utility without disrupting anything else on A-V.
Assuming those bindings are in place, you can really see how I was looking to arrange the hotkeys since the start of this project. The concept shows itself a lot more clearly after adding a binding like Alt+Caps Lock for an all-purpose/Rally Cam (applies to Protoss & Terran files, as Zerg uses Space Bar for the Base Camera key).- ` to 5 row for units.
- Tab to R row for production.
- Caps Lock to F row for camera-related hotkeys (with Z-V providing an additional row of cameras).
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Hey, thanks for this. I'm physically disabled and found the default layout difficult to reach certain shift/control commands. This helped a lot, since all the shift/control commands are really close.
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On July 10 2013 22:38 wisecrack123 wrote:
Hey, thanks for this. I'm physically disabled and found the default layout difficult to reach certain shift/control commands. This helped a lot, since all the shift/control commands are really close.
Hey thanks for giving it a go! As long as you have a pinky finger that can hit Ctrl and Shift decently, the rest of the layout should work great!
I think the toughest command to perform in Standard was definitely the camera ones. It's no good if you have to take your hand off the mouse to press keys that you can't reach!
Edit: Being able to use your left thumb for Alt is also pretty important..I should have mentioned that!
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We're closing in on a week with the new test files up. I think that for now, this is going to be the way we will propose and test changes to determine whether or not they should be pushed through as part of the thread's featured default layouts.
Regarding the current testfiles, the most important questions at the moment are:1. Do the players feel that it's far too un-intuitive to have Ctrl+Tab/1-5/A-V create these cameras and Control Groups, but have Ctrl+Q-R add to the Q-R Control Groups?
2. Is it going to be safe enough for the majority of players to use? What I mean here is will the the actual use of these bindings be too risky for most players to use given the location of other bindings?
3. Should this change be added to the Additional Info section of the OP as an advanced/optional binding suggestion instead?
If you've tested this throughout the week and have something to add, please feel free to chime in and tell us about your experience with it.
If you're reading this and have no idea what is going on and you're curious, take a look at the testfile document here (also accessed through the download links in the OP):
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a34d7t3iq6hwpeq/mjMPFPcPVL/%60Tester_Files
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I like Ctrl to add for Q-R, and I believe this is not much riskier than most other mistakes you can make by hitting the wrong keys.
Unrelated: I like Ctrl+Caps Lock/Alt+Caps Lock for special cam, however it's a bit annoying when you don't disable Caps Lock in your system, if you ever wish to send some chat messages during a game (especially team games, that is). There are ways to disable it (I think it's a useless key anyway), but I wonder if I should just switch to another location instead...
Also how are you supposed to use the S key to spam mules? You can't right? Since it requires you to hit the command before clicking every single time. What commands do you suggest considering S for, as a Terran?
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@PoP
You can change MULES to S if you want, that wouldn't be a problem at all. Right now it's on W and Space Bar, so you can either take the Smart Key binding off or the W binding and change it to S. Should work fine!
If you were looking to drop a ton of MULES using the Rapidfire Ability Key without changing it from W/Space Bar to S, you would have to hold press W, then Shift+S. If you you did change it to S, then you would not need to press Shift, only hold S! Ridiculously easy.
S (the Rapidfire Ability Key for Alloy) is very situational. I don't have any suggested bindings for Terran, other than the MULE change mentioned above. I guess the better response to your question is "What spells would you want to spam easier? Bind those to S!". Not the most "directly helpful" response, but it's the best one I can come up with at the moment.
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Hey everyone, I have a couple updates to announce as well as an "exciting idea" .- The OP now features a section for the Ctrl+ adding method. It was decided that this will not be incorporated into any version of Fleet Keys at this time. However, I will keep the tester files up for players to continue trying out. You can find all of this in the "Additional Info" section, under the "Ctrl + Key Adding Method" subject.
- Revamped the "Smart Key Explained" subject found in the Additional Info section.
So, the idea.
I've been thinking about creating a new section for featuring Fleet Keys users' replays. I think it would be really cool to collect replays from Fleet Keys users of each league, and feature them in an all-new section as part of the OP. Here are most of the details I have worked out/brainstormed as of now:- Feature Fleet Keys users' replays in this "untitled new section" of the OP. The replays (arranged by league) would be in order of Pro/Event games (if one pops up I will
probably lose my mind), then GM down to Bronze and then Unranked, and then a separate section that could feature some fun/exciting team games from various leagues. I would pick roughly 5 of the most exciting games belonging to each league and briefly describe them with the links, (the GM and team game lists will exceed 5 of course if I manage to get more than 5).
- Link to streams of Fleet Keys users who stream and/or offer coaching often (I'd be really pumped to see this).
- Report/chronicle my own progress while doing this. This would be suuuuper fun and exciting for me, as I suck and really want to play a lot more and get better.
- Possibly find some emergent hotkey trends and refine the hotkey systems even more.
The point of all this is basically to get us all watching our games in closer detail to not only pick apart our play in respect to our leagues, but to also pick apart some of the issues players of varying leagues are having with the actual layouts themselves. As far as I can tell, the vast majority of changes to Alloy and Element are all done, so with that, I think it's time we started showcasing the users of this layout to really complete the thread itself.
Does this sound good? Does anyone care for this idea? I need to hear from players of varying leagues for this to really flesh itself out so I can dump, salvage or spring into action with this idea. PM, post here, or email me what you think about it, this could be the last and most awesome step in completing this whole thing.
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So I've tweaked alloy to what I think I'll end up keeping.
Here are the primary reasons for the changes.
1. Simplicity
The more sense something makes in your brain, the easier it is to learn.
I've modified it to be more straightforward and simple so that in the same amount of time I play, I will improve and get better at using the keys faster.
2. Versatility
I play every race, but usually 1 race at a time. To keep my experience with each race relevant when switching, the hotkey setup has to be uniform for each.
3. I dislike modifier+macroCG for selection
This just didn't click in my brain. It was annoying to use at the start, and still a pain to macro with.
Layered cameras are still nice though, and by god do they make using inject/chrono so easy.
edit:Now that I'm thinking about it, shift+a-f/z-v for set cam and recall as ctr+button might be nice. Big hands=alt key isn't very nice to me.
Layered CG's are gone.
Hotkeys are now tab+`+123456.
`: harass scout
1/2:army+casters
3:rax/gate/queens
4:fact/robo
5:star
6:tech
tab:macro
I wasn't planning on using tab thinking I'd use it as a cam or something, but in my short experience so far with alloy it was ingrained into my brain as the dedicated macro button. I love it.
All keys right within reach, no stretching except for tech which you don't need to hit that often.
Alt+` is idle workers, because it might be a nice key to hit every now and then.
Last but not least, subgroup selection onto the mouse keys. This is indeed very awesome. If I was keyless on the mouse, I guess I'd use something like R/F or T/G for subgroups. But it isn't a huge deal, 3 control groups is more than enough for caster usage.
Thanks for the setup again! It's really helped me start actually using cams and more CG's.
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@decemberscalm
That looks like a good alternative setup for those who just can't get used to the Alt+QWE CG's. It all really comes down to what you're comfortable with in the end right?
When you say Tab for macro, you mean CC's/Hatches/Nexuses right?
I'm not sure what you are using Caps Lock for, are you still using it as a CG or Base Camera? Caps Lock is a reallllly good spot for Queens, as it makes the Backspace, Camera Locations, and Box-Click methods insanely smooth. By keeping your layout uniform, did you opt for the Smart Key with Zerg as Space Bar, or did you change Space bar to Base Camera in T&P? The Z and the T&P layouts are divided mainly by that defining feature, so I'm curious to hear what you decided to go for while merging them?
Thanks for the feedback/sharing your thoughts!
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I downloaded and put it on just to try it out. It annoyed me when I tried to change back to my regular hotkey profile they all changed to alloy! The E for attack was the real clincher for me imo. It just does not make sense lol.
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On July 30 2013 18:12 KingofGods wrote:
I downloaded and put it on just to try it out. It annoyed me when I tried to change back to my regular hotkey profile they all changed to alloy! The E for attack was the real clincher for me imo. It just does not make sense lol.
That was a big issue for me at first when I started using Fleet Keys... I lost a bunch of (unranked) games because I tried to a-move my army and walked them freely into my enemy.
That being said, after a week, the E-move became second nature and having A/S/D (and spacebar for Protoss/Terran) as my spellcasting makes it SO much easier to have large engagements with a variety of units.
The efficient/intuitive/accessible camera bindings and general tidiness of the hotkeys makes it worth a little adjustment, in my opinion.
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Have been using Fleet-Keys for quite a while now and just wanted to say thank you for developing this layout.
It is so far working great for me and even brought my poor apm up a bit. . It took me a while to get used to using the modifier key for production but thats fine right now.
What I like is that I'm bascially able now to use all of the control groups, though I still have to learn to make good use of them.
Trying to mess around with the camera hotkeys also, but I still have to find out how I can efficiently use those.
What this layout did for me was to at least get me out of Bronze thanks to being able to macro better now.
What I am wondering about right now is the following: I do quite often use the select idle worker button as well as select all idle workers. I set this key on ^ (left to 1 on the german keyboard) and select all idle workers correspondingly.
This seems to be kind of a bad idea because i frequently manage to overwrite my army CG 1 and have all idle workers there. No idea but it happens almost any game and is really annoying. Using the F1-F5 keys is pretty much no option for me, simply cannot work with those keys without seriously messing things up. (Subgroup selects therefore went to side mouse buttons)
What I am looking for is a good place for that key now that is easy to use at the end of a normal macro cycle. Might put it on t but I already have set this to jump to alerts to know where things go wrong. I wonder if i could use caps lock for that. Never use the base cycle cam anyhow because I either double tap to jump somewhere or trie to use separate camera hotkeys anyhow. Do you have any suggestions for me on that one?
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Off Topic (somewhat)
So what do you guys think of that new potential section for the OP? The poll says there's players from pretty much all leagues, so apart from a bit of contribution it wouldn't be a far-off working concept. The ideas I threw around are only a few comments before this one, but I'll link to the post here.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404476¤tpage=15#288
@KingofGods
After plugging in the file in your hotkeys folder, it should be as simple as selecting the file from the the drop-down menu of profiles.
As for E on attack, it actually makes a ton of sense. With the placement of 1, 2, and 3 (and for some, 4 as well), you can tap E easier than pretty much any key. A demonstration of this would look like:- Ring - 1
- Index - E
- Middle - 2
- Index - E
- Middle or Index - 3
- Index - E
Chances are you won't be Attack-moving more than 3 CG's, but even so, E seems like a much better location than A or T given the army CG locations. 1-3 are super common for army CG's, and E for attack cuts out any unnecessary reaching or stretching. 1E, 2E, 3E is pretty damn fast-- even adding a fourth CG to it wouldn't slow it down much or at all!
@Eagleeye777
Hey, it's great to hear your macro is going well so far! It's going to be something you'll always be working on so it's awesome to hear that the layout is at least helping that along.
So you're hitting ^ and 1 at the same time while holding Ctrl? Sounds like an accuracy issue, but I do see where you're coming from. I personally don't use the Idle Worker key until late game when mineral patches/geysers are mined out, and I also do not use my Select Army hotkey. There is some room for error with it like you said. I'm not too sure what I'd put in place of Idle Workers/Select Army. Perhaps another CG? Perhaps not? A command that doesn't rely on Ctrl or Shit? Caps Lock is a great location for anything you'll be doing at least twice or three times every minute. If you plan on going for a full-on tabbed production setup, I'd have to recommend Caps Lock for your army buildings, and if you can swing it, Missile Turrets/Photon Cannons with your CC's for a little extra control (just an idea).
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On July 31 2013 05:28 eneyeseekay wrote:Off Topic (somewhat)So what do you guys think of that new potential section for the OP? The poll says there's players from pretty much all leagues, so apart from a bit of contribution it wouldn't be a far-off working concept. The ideas I threw around are only a few comments before this one, but I'll link to the post here. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404476¤tpage=15#288@KingofGodsAfter plugging in the file in your hotkeys folder, it should be as simple as selecting the file from the the drop-down menu of profiles. As for E on attack, it actually makes a ton of sense. With the placement of 1, 2, and 3 (and for some, 4 as well), you can tap E easier than pretty much any key. A demonstration of this would look like: - Ring - 1
- Index - E
- Middle - 2
- Index - E
- Middle or Index - 3
- Index - E
Chances are you won't be Attack-moving more than 3 CG's, but even so, E seems like a much better location than A or T given the army CG locations. 1-3 are super common for army CG's, and E for attack cuts out any unnecessary reaching or stretching. 1E, 2E, 3E is pretty damn fast-- even adding a fourth CG to it wouldn't slow it down much or at all! @Eagleeye777
Keep up the good work, continued great thread man and Im a fan of the ideas you have to try and appeal to newer players.
I use R purely for the reason that my index finger sits nicely on R, probably better for smaller handed players to use E, I've tried Q-R for attack and for me R feels most natural. I've kept a close eye on this thread however and sorry I haven't been given much feedback as I've not felt the need to pickup a similar hotkey system due to time constraints playing. I've picked up a lot of handy advantages from this thread. Ctrl+Caps and Alt+Caps works well for a rally cam and I've incorporated it into my own version that is quite similar to yours. But I honestly think using a modifier for control groups isn't a good idea at all. Everything else is decent. Another idea some might find handy is along with using Space(and Z) for Basic Build I use Q for advanced build. I have anything that was X in the building tab rebound to Caps besides this to have an easier hotkey on the first two rows. Using Q and Space and Occasionally Caps for units with 3 abilities (Q=EMP) (Space=Snipe) (Caps=Cloak/Uncloak) for example allows your hand (if it's similarly sized to mine) to hit everything fairly easily. Just food for thought.
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I actually added as an alternative for attack as caps lock. I agree, 1a 2a, 3a can be difficult but it's a lot nicer with pinky hitting caps lock.
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I started to use the Alloy layout today and played a few games using it and now I starting the get the hang of it. I really like these layered hotkeys because I can reach everything without lifting my hand.
The only inconvience I found was that I use QWERTZ layout and had to modify every Z to Y. If you would like I can send you this modified layout for QWERTZ keyboards so people can download it later and don't have to modify.
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on Mac I have a problem. Caps Lock key is only detected as pressed only when a it goes from turned on to turned off. other way doesnt work. its like if i didnt press anything
Is it a known problem?
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Sorry everyone, I've been tied up for the last couple of days, but I've managed to claw my way back! Ok, where do I start?
@Rockafella
R is pretty comfy for me as well since I have fairly large hands. I still use E, and I hit 4E with my index. Slightly inefficient, I know, but 4 army CG's isn't something easily harnessed, so it doesn't see too much use.
I like that spellcaster idea. If you're not using Caps Lock as a CG or Base Camera, I think that could work nicely especially if you're also using the Smart Key as Space Bar. Having 3 different sized keys for each spell might be awkward at first, but who knows, it may help build up one's muscle memory that way because they're distincly different.
I've always received mixed opinions about the Alt+Q-R CG's. I'm not really sure what I would do with them if I did try to change it up. 4,5,6 is obvious but still a bit awkward/takes away from the compact-ness of everything. It requires a lot of moving if your hands aren't big, not to mention you lose up to 2 CG's. Army Production on Caps Lock or 4/5 in conjunction with Subgroup selections is an option too I guess. At this point I'm used to the Alt+Q-R thing, and I prefer it over 4,5,6 but that's just me. I use it the same way for Protoss and Terran as I would use it for Zerg. By "same way" I mean: rapidly checking my Queues across each different army structure, Inject timers between every few actions, and sometimes separate rallying and jumping to each CG's locations.
Being mindful of the white queues on the wireframes is the key to constant and massive production using Alt+Q-R. Seeing what your production is doing and knowing exactly when to make units is better in this case than spamming and over-queuing up on a few structures. I always hoped that this promoted more single queues across more managed structures. The problem is always keeping that one single queue marker on each structure, but it's a good thing to strive for. Trying to produce on-time while simply producing more as opposed to more often is another way of looking at it. That's basically my original intent with it anyway, what are your thoughts about it?
@KingofGods
I'm playing out the actions now.. Pinky for attack? I could see people being interested in that. How did that come about anyway? Were you trying to offload more work to your thumb/pinky?
@SorrowShine and Tritone
Yeah, it's an issue I've heard of with Macs when using Caps Lock in SC2. I am putting that link in the Q&A section with its own Question, thanks for posting that Tritone! This should help more people in the future.
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You're welcome, eneyeseekay. Thanks for developing this layout. I have been using it for the past couple of months and couldn't be happier. With a few slight modifications, and a few dozen practice games to get everything down, it's become everything I could ask for in a keyboard layout. It's efficient, easy to use, and lets me focus less on hunting around the keyboard for scattered, poorly mapped commands, and more on playing Starcraft.
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On August 02 2013 11:50 eneyeseekay wrote:
Being mindful of the white queues on the wireframes is the key to constant and massive production using Alt+Q-R. Seeing what your production is doing and knowing exactly when to make units is better in this case than spamming and over-queuing up on a few structures. I always hoped that this promoted more single queues across more managed structures. The problem is always keeping that one single queue marker on each structure, but it's a good thing to strive for. Trying to produce on-time while simply producing more as opposed to more often is another way of looking at it. That's basically my original intent with it anyway, what are your thoughts about it?
Yeah that's one thing that having all production one hotkey is poor for but I can't play Terran without it. I use Ctrl Q,W,E,R,A,S,D,F as set hotkeys and alt to recall, so that's one reason why I haven't used that as a hotkey. I've also tried use mousewheel up and down as 8/9 CG for Terran but not sure if that's tournament legal, I'd presume not. Imagine having your macro on mousewheel up or down haha. If there was a way of checking production with all macro on one hotkey it would be great as it's the only backdraw to the method you use. I know it's around a 50/50 split with Terrans (who this issue affects the most I guess) useingone CG as opposed to 3. I guess it's something I could get used to but using ALT for Control groups means you are using ALT almost all the time surely? I can see the thumb getting a good workout at least, my ALT is also quite far left to the spacebar (CMStorm Rapid), if I had a Noppoo choc mini I think I'd probably consider changing a lot more seriously!
The hardest part of making and updating hotkey systems on SC I think is having it consistent the whole way through but easy enough through for newer players to learn so I can understand some of the decisions in the system. I can understand why you have everything so close too as it's just nice in general for smaller hands. I've got a slightly different layout for Zerg as I gave up trying to have consistency for all races and I've use Mouse4 (closest to thumb) for alt (for recalling cams) which helps a decent amount, something else to consider but again, probably not tournament legal either though!
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2 days ago I saw this thread and decided to try out Alloy. It was a great decision, and I'm loving it so far. I've found the arcade game "Hotkey Trainer" to make the learning experience a lot faster, and I had the hotkeys down after about an hour or so. It's also getting me to use screen hotkeys a lot more, which I really never used before (So thank you for that). The one thing I'm still trying to figure out is the rapidfire key (protoss). I haven't really recognized much of a significance of it so far, really. What would be the benefit of using the rapidfire key (specifically when warping in gateway units), as apposed to just holding shift?
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On August 08 2013 07:12 nippon14 wrote:
2 days ago I saw this thread and decided to try out Alloy. It was a great decision, and I'm loving it so far. I've found the arcade game "Hotkey Trainer" to make the learning experience a lot faster, and I had the hotkeys down after about an hour or so. It's also getting me to use screen hotkeys a lot more, which I really never used before (So thank you for that). The one thing I'm still trying to figure out is the rapidfire key (protoss). I haven't really recognized much of a significance of it so far, really. What would be the benefit of using the rapidfire key (specifically when warping in gateway units), as apposed to just holding shift?
You can warp in a lot faster, just make sure that your keyboard repeat rate is set to highest and delay set to lowest. Fast repeat rate is a lot faster than you can possibly click.
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Ok so i noticed this thread couple days ago and bookmarked it to check out later. Today i tried this hotkey setup and it is great expect it feels so uncomfortable using the alt key. I would like to change the alt and spacebar around so spacebar would be used like alt key is used as default but i don't know how to change that.So i ask how do i change the spots of spacebar and alt. And i use the qwerty terran-protoss one.
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On July 30 2013 05:58 eneyeseekay wrote:
@decemberscalm
That looks like a good alternative setup for those who just can't get used to the Alt+QWE CG's. It all really comes down to what you're comfortable with in the end right?
When you say Tab for macro, you mean CC's/Hatches/Nexuses right?
I'm not sure what you are using Caps Lock for, are you still using it as a CG or Base Camera? Caps Lock is a reallllly good spot for Queens, as it makes the Backspace, Camera Locations, and Box-Click methods insanely smooth. By keeping your layout uniform, did you opt for the Smart Key with Zerg as Space Bar, or did you change Space bar to Base Camera in T&P? The Z and the T&P layouts are divided mainly by that defining feature, so I'm curious to hear what you decided to go for while merging them?
Thanks for the feedback/sharing your thoughts!
Yep! Tab for the CC's/Hatches/Nexi.
Caps for cycling bases. I'm not actually used to hot keying queens. I've been using camera injects, but quickly boxing queens. This is an inferior method and I really should replace it but I haven't been playing Z too much lately.
Hmm, you are making me rethink what to do instead.
I am just completely not using the "smart key" for anything. Right now I have it binded as a rally cam. I could try to get used to z or something as a rally cam instead and use space bar as a control group (would make a queen group more viable no?).
That might be a pretty sick way to do it.
Caps cycle bases. Z as rally cam. Spacebar as control group for queens (and another easy to grab control group for T/P).
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On August 10 2013 06:30 Nizes wrote:
Ok so i noticed this thread couple days ago and bookmarked it to check out later. Today i tried this hotkey setup and it is great expect it feels so uncomfortable using the alt key. I would like to change the alt and spacebar around so spacebar would be used like alt key is used as default but i don't know how to change that.So i ask how do i change the spots of spacebar and alt. And i use the qwerty terran-protoss one.
I was the same way. Cameras with alt is fine because you don't spam the hell out of them like you do macro keys.
What I ended up doing is using tab and tilde. Tab for nexi/cc's/hatch. Tilde as scout/harass. This let me put rax/gate on 3, Robo/fact on 4, and star on 5. Tech building I need to check progress on 6, the only "hard" to reach key in the entire setup.
If I'm not mistaken you can't use different modifier keys
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On August 10 2013 18:41 decemberscalm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:30 Nizes wrote:
Ok so i noticed this thread couple days ago and bookmarked it to check out later. Today i tried this hotkey setup and it is great expect it feels so uncomfortable using the alt key. I would like to change the alt and spacebar around so spacebar would be used like alt key is used as default but i don't know how to change that.So i ask how do i change the spots of spacebar and alt. And i use the qwerty terran-protoss one. I was the same way. Cameras with alt is fine because you don't spam the hell out of them like you do macro keys. What I ended up doing is using tab and tilde. Tab for nexi/cc's/hatch. Tilde as scout/harass. This let me put rax/gate on 3, Robo/fact on 4, and star on 5. Tech building I need to check progress on 6, the only "hard" to reach key in the entire setup. If I'm not mistaken you can't use different modifier keys
Thanks for the answer Decemberscalm i will try that setup.
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I am interested into importing pieces of this layout into my own.
Could you share how to set up the rapidfire key function and is it tournament legal or not?
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You can look at the following thread on how to set it up: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=413581
As for tournament legal - you would need to look at the rules for the individual tournament. It is something that you can setup via the SC2 front-end, so it should be legal and I have seen some pro players actually use it on their stream.
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One annoying thing about how rapid fire is set up right now. When trying to build things it'll trigger. Obviously this is not ideal.
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Also make sure that you use it only where it will make sense. You can overcharge the same nexus twice or feedback the same medivac until your energy is depleted if the feedback doesn't kill it (test it in a unit tester map). So rapidfire gives great power, but also has some drawbacks.
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I wouldn't switch to this from grid, but I have to say you did a fantastic job with these hotkeys! Bravo!
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! HEY EVERYONE!!
DISCLAIMER: This is not a goodbye message!
So I've been MIA for about a full page in this thread. That's not like me at all! If anyone's curious, I've been doing a lot of flying and working for the past month+. Where I normally stay, the internet is quite poor; it's non-existent during higher traffic hours, which are the only ones I seem to be around for most of the time. My shifts run like 2 weeks straight on, 12+ hour days, and then one week off. 2 of those off days are tied up in flying to and from work, and another one of those off days is spent catching up on sleep. Sounds awful, but it's worth it for now. This schedule doesn't leave much room for time off, and the time off I do have I dedicate to being with family/friends. I really cherish those few days I have with them.
I like art and all that stuff as you might imagine (I made this whole damn OP after all). I really like Magic the Gathering, Ascension, D&D when the opportunity arrises, and anything else I can try out. Due to the whole shaky/non-existent internet situation that seems to be my life at the moment (life without reliable internet is suffocating at times, yet liberating too), I've been turning to more offline forms of entertainment like those mentioned above. Other things I should mention are Emulators/roms on my phone (with many spare batteries!), gym time, popping on TL with my phone here and there, and a new, internet-free hobby that ties in great with my artsy background--- Warhammer 40k. Being able to design/paint my own stuff is a massive draw for me, and it requires no internet connection!
Right now, I dunno where SC2 fits in, but I'm trying to find a way to work it in because I miiisssssss iiiiiit. It requires a decent rig I can take with me back and forth, time alone, and a good, reliable internet connection. On any given day, it seems like one or none of those things are at my disposal. Offline maps is where I could squeeze in time, which is starting to look like my only option atm.
@nippon14
You're picking it up pretty quick then huh? I'm glad to hear that it's not impossible to learn, otherwise all of this would be for naught! Seriously though this is great news! MilExo explained it pretty good there. Zealots are the major benefactors here, although any Gateway unit can be deployed like that.
@ Decemberscalm
That's a very close setup to what I tested out early on, before I decided to layer everything over with Alt. I'm glad you brought this to light, as it could a nice alternative for those who just simply don't like using Alt for their army production/upgrades. you do lose a lot of monitoring ability, but if it's easier to not use Alt for some players, I can't argue with them on that. I think it deserves a place in the Additional Info section. Tilde as simply an army Control Group makes more sense for people, so I'd only change that word, but keep the rest. You could bind the tech to your CC's as well, Tab>F1/F2 or Tab>Side Mouse Button seems easier imo than jumping all the way to 6, but that's just me. it would certainly make tabbing through tech easier.
Rapidfire Can be set up a ton of different ways, and I tried keeping it the least intrusive while still allowing it to tie in seamlessly with the Zerg abilities that benefit from it (Inject, Propagate tumor). The idea was not to make Rapidfire super-accessible and easy to set off, but rather keep it as a conveniently-placed trigger because it can work for and against players. I can't think of any other situation outside of Zerg where you'd normally want to hold in S often. Is there a better location you can think of for T and P?
@Havik_
Thanks Havik! I'm curious (as this is what I'd call a more refined or compact Grid setup and you use Grid), If you were to use it, what would you want changed?
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hello guys so i recently gave up a 5 button mouse to a 3 button one ( replace deathadder with abyssus ) .
On my ex mouse i used to have the side mouse buttons binded to ( forges & camera position on RAMP ) . now as protoss i spam forges a lot with Chronoboost and i spam ramp aswel for walling and stuff like this .
what you recommand me to replace those 2 keys with ? i kinda have an improvised hotkey system .
+ Show Spoiler +
` - ms core
1 - all nexus
2 - main army
3 - spell casters
4 - hallucination pheonix / warp prism / observers / oracle / 4-5 group of pheonix ( scouting stuff or harassment group )
5 - all gateways
6 - all stargates
7 - all robotics
modified structure hotkeys :
build Nexus B-B
build immortal R
(I use for camera groups f1-f7 and i bind them with 9 0 - = backspace insert and home )
now i made a control group for forges Ctrl - W and W to select them .
but for ramp camera hotkey i still cant find something that sweets me . what you guys recommand me ? the only one that i think is decend is Capslock ( wich i found in this guide )
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I had a similar problem to some of you - the Tab CC's to Alt+Q-R felt awkward.
What I did is - tab for the rally site camera (as an CG seems out of place), and moved everything to the side CC on Alt-Q etc. I am still considering moving tech buildings to Rax and Factory groups respectively. Seems fairly intuitive.
Anyone using mouse buttons as modifiers? Does it inhibit the flow (whatever that might mean)?
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Hey, this might be a stupid question but here goes.
When I bind a control group to QWER, then use those buttons for grid, I just jump to that control group. Am I doing something wrong?
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On November 16 2013 10:56 Tisdel wrote:
Hey, this might be a stupid question but here goes.
When I bind a control group to QWER, then use those buttons for grid, I just jump to that control group. Am I doing something wrong?
Alt+Q/W/E/R should be recalling your control groups bound to Q/W/E/R. As far as I know the hotkey files are set up that way and shouldn't select/jump to them by simply pressing Q/W/E/R.
So the current way to handle CG's is close to the standard way only "layered" under Q/W/E/R. Ctrl+Q/W/E/R to create, Shift+Alt+Q/W/E/R to add, and Alt+Q/W/E/R to recall. Pressing Q to B shouldn't be recalling them. These images explains/shows it pretty clearly.
Alloy Zerg
http://i.imgur.com/QqZICI5.jpg
Alloy Terran & Protoss
http://i.imgur.com/ijwqs69.jpg
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On November 16 2013 14:08 eneyeseekay wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2013 10:56 Tisdel wrote:
Hey, this might be a stupid question but here goes.
When I bind a control group to QWER, then use those buttons for grid, I just jump to that control group. Am I doing something wrong? Alt+Q/W/E/R should be recalling your control groups bound to Q/W/E/R. As far as I know the hotkey files are set up that way and shouldn't select/jump to them by simply pressing Q/W/E/R. So the current way to handle CG's is close to the standard way only "layered" under Q/W/E/R. Ctrl+Q/W/E/R to create, Shift+Alt+Q/W/E/R to add, and Alt+Q/W/E/R to recall. Pressing Q to B shouldn't be recalling them. These images explains/shows it pretty clearly.
Yeah. I thought that was how it was supposed to work. I redownloaded the file and now it works that way. Weird.
Previously pressing q when the nexus was selected would jump to the control group at q, not build a probe.
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where are the pros and cons of fleet compared to The Core?
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On November 16 2013 20:17 hypnotoad.410 wrote:
where are the pros and cons of fleet compared to The Core?
Where are they? A list like that doesn't exist!
Fleet Keys and TheCore are also not the only layouts that exist so if there was one, I don't think it would or should be exclusive to the two. A comprehensive layout chart detailing the current layouts would be pretty sick imo.
As far as Fleet Keys and TheCore goes, I don't quite know what an unbiased pros and cons comparison would look like since they're so different. I think the best way to compare the two or even better --"describe" the two, would be to have some of the most experienced users and also some new users of each layout describe them and just go from there. The userbase/ thread & community activity for Fleet Keys is drastically smaller and less involved than TheCore's, so that would have to be taken into consideration I'd think. Lots of good FK feedback could be the difficult part due to this.
I had talked about setting up a portal thread for the known/completed available layouts in the past that I think could help out others when it came to these kinds of questions. Custom hotkeys are a really loved/hated topic where there are people using Standard and are happy because they're simply used to it (and pros use them so it's automatically proper), and then people who are interested in the topic and tinker/try out new things. It would be at the mercy of the mods at TL to decide whether it's even worth it because creating a thread like that only to bury it would be a waste. Having it stickied would be awesome, as there are strategy guides up there as well. Something like this could really round out the content you'd want to look for when coming to SC2 Strategy. That's a topic for another day I suppose.
TLDR; Doesn't exist. Experienced/new users of both layouts could chime in and we could make a fairly comprehensive one. A portal thread to the known layouts would be great for this...(would like to see one).
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Hey, I'm recently trying most of the custom layouts to find which suits me best (mostly yours and the core). I have a quick question tho, wouldn't it be better and more intuitive to use alt+1234 for cameras then alt+zxcv, considering you try to eliminate as much reaching down as possible. I find myself mostly having my fingers on numbers somehow anyway, probably a habit from using standard for long.
Also, which keys do you recommend as home keys? Terran/toss layout. Thanks!
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@Defaced
In the beginning I really wracked my brain over what I could do With Alt+1,2,3,4 safely, but couldn't decide on a sound way to really make anything meaningful happen with the idea. The two things I tried out were:
1. I could make an awkward combination to set the camera to 1,2,3,4 such as Shift+Alt+1,2,3,4 or Crl+Alt+, and use Alt+1,2,3,4 like you mentioned to recall it. In which case I would have to change the A,S,D,F cameras to Shift+Alt+to set and Alt+ to recall for consistency. Going this way would have players doing some really awkward stretching with Shift+Alt+1,2,3,4 and Ctrl+Alt+ isn't the easiest thing to pull off for most. I have large hands myself and it was awkward as hell for me--was I making a wrong assumption?
2. I could keep create camera as Ctrl+A,S,D,F and Ctrl+Z,X,C,V, and recall Alt+A-V as usual, but add an alternate binding to Alt+1,2,3,4 as recall for the Z,X,C,V cameras. This is obviously unintuitive as hell not to mention difficult to portray in a cheat sheet but also the most simple to implement. I was really torn on this one. Breaking the cameras up across 1-4 and A-F was also a bit strange, but yeah.. easiest solution.
As far as a homerow goes, I didn't really design it with a homerow approach per se. It ended up using the 1-3, Q-E and A-D keys a ton in the Alloy layout (I assume you're asking about Alloy), so for me I like to keep my thumb between Alt+Spacebar, pinky finger floating around the modifiers, and my other three fingers floating between the Q-E and A-D row. As army control becomes more important my three fingers sort of float up a row and Spacebar starts getting use for spells. Sorry if that wasn't helpful, but once you're playing with it, you'll realize that your fingers scan 1-D basically and executing A-Move commands is about as quick as you can possibly get with 3 CG's. Your wrist doesn't stretch around so that's good, and there's a nice bounce with finger actions, especially macro actions.
Got any ideas for Alt+1,2,3,4?
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Well, I guess I'm sort of used to inconsistent stuff :D but yeah, what you are saying makes sense, I just find it easier for me to use alt+1234 for camers, while setting em with ctrl+alt, works kinda simmilar to adding to hotkey with shift+alt+qwer. But yeah, for most people starting out i guess alt+zxcv for cameras makes more sense, especialy if they can reach down easier, my hands are kinda big too so it's just a little weird. Thats about it, thanks for putting your time into this, a really good layout overall!
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Quick question: isn't the command to build Protoss cannons inconsistent? It's assigned to C, but positionally it should be assigned to X.
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@mongoose22
Hey there, I checked it out and I'm correcting that now. I only found the problem in:
HotS_Multiplayer_FK_Alloy_QWERTY_PROTOSS_TERRAN.
Looks like a leftover binding from the Standard template! All fixed now and the download file is updated.
Edit: I also left C as an alternate binding for Cannons. *shrug* might be useful for people accustomed to Standard, or those who used this file for quite some time without questioning it.
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I've been toying around with a seemingly slight but (in my opinion) significant change in the suggested CG for Hatcheries/CC's/Nexuses and I want to know what you guys think. My goal is to refine these layouts as much as I can while still keeping the layout easy to pick up for the majority of players (experienced and new alike, Grid or Standard).
I was thinking about moving the suggested CG for the mentioned buildings down from Tab to Caps Lock. This is an extremely important and common CG to call upon, so I'm pretty excited to run this by anyone paying attention for some feedback. It may seem like an insignificant change but I'll offer up some strong points for discussion.
Benefits of Potential Change:
- The pinky is closer to the modifier keys. This brings you one key closer to Ctrl and Shift-- a
pretty big really big deal.
- With much less hand movement, you can now roll your fingers across Caps, Q and or other keys.
- More natural hand position. Although it's nice having these buildings on Tab, Caps Lock allows you to operate from a more central location, or "homerow" if you will.
With this change, I'm not sure where this leaves the Tab hotkey in the Protoss & Terran layouts. The options I see right now are:
- Make a simple swap of the current Caps Lock and Tab hotkeys in the Protoss & Terran layouts.
---OR---
- Alt+Caps Lock can be used as the new "Base Camera" hotkey in the Protoss & Terran layouts. This opens Tab up for either an army CG or Camera Location. Alt+Caps Lock also flows better with the Alt+A-V camera recalls and Alt+Q-R CG selections, and allows your pinky to put when performing said Alt+ actions..(leaning more towards this one atm)
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haha wooow so impressed by the rapidfire key. creep spread is so fun now. It even works with transfuse! My only complaint is that this layout keeps me wondering if my caps lock is on or off when I type.
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@Regtic
I know what you mean! It does add some comedy to the chat logs though doesn't it?
Also, do you use Caps for your Hatches/Nexuses/CC's, any thoughts on my last post?
Typical communication example
+ Show Spoiler +
You:
>"BOTH GUYS EXPANDED OH GOOD SO GREEDY!"
>"STARTING +1/+1 IN A SEC hurrrr"
>"Sorry, Caps is a CG in my hotkeys. I press is a lot."
Team Mate:
>"lol np sounds good!"
You:
>"Gearing up for a timing, I'll put on as much pressure as possible."
>"TAKE A THIRD BASE WHILE I DENT UP THEIR FRONT I'LL TRY EXPANDING BEHIND THIS TOO."
>"Srry caps."
Team Mate:
>"yep!"
You:
>"ALL RIGHT 30 SECONDS UNTIL UPS ARE DONE I'M MOVING OUT TAKE THAT BASE!"
>"GOGOOgogogo"
>"srrycaps."
Team Mate:
>:"OMGSTOPYELLINGATMEEE!!!"
You:
>"FFFUUUHHHH!"
>"lol"
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On January 13 2014 10:08 eneyeseekay wrote:@Regtic I know what you mean! It does add some comedy to the chat logs though doesn't it? Also, do you use Caps for your Hatches/Nexuses/CC's, any thoughts on my last post? Typical communication example + Show Spoiler +
You:
>"BOTH GUYS EXPANDED OH GOOD SO GREEDY!"
>"STARTING +1/+1 IN A SEC hurrrr"
>"Sorry, Caps is a CG in my hotkeys. I press is a lot."
Team Mate:
>"lol np sounds good!"
You:
>"Gearing up for a timing, I'll put on as much pressure as possible."
>"TAKE A THIRD BASE WHILE I DENT UP THEIR FRONT I'LL TRY EXPANDING BEHIND THIS TOO."
>"Srry caps."
Team Mate:
>"yep!"
You:
>"ALL RIGHT 30 SECONDS UNTIL UPS ARE DONE I'M MOVING OUT TAKE THAT BASE!"
>"GOGOOgogogo"
>"srrycaps."
Team Mate:
>:"OMGSTOPYELLINGATMEEE!!!"
You:
>"FFFUUUHHHH!"
>"lol"
hmmm I don't really play terran/protoss so I don't know. For zerg the key swap is not very significant I think because we use both keys equally as much. I only started using the setup today and I'm still not adjusted enough to play vs other people yet though.
(i used default aloy settings for zerg)
actually i just tried swapping them and i just realized how much more i do use hatchery than queens lol. It's a lot better swapping them imo, you're right.
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On January 13 2014 12:20 Regtic wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 13 2014 10:08 eneyeseekay wrote:@Regtic I know what you mean! It does add some comedy to the chat logs though doesn't it? Also, do you use Caps for your Hatches/Nexuses/CC's, any thoughts on my last post? Typical communication example + Show Spoiler +
You:
>"BOTH GUYS EXPANDED OH GOOD SO GREEDY!"
>"STARTING +1/+1 IN A SEC hurrrr"
>"Sorry, Caps is a CG in my hotkeys. I press is a lot."
Team Mate:
>"lol np sounds good!"
You:
>"Gearing up for a timing, I'll put on as much pressure as possible."
>"TAKE A THIRD BASE WHILE I DENT UP THEIR FRONT I'LL TRY EXPANDING BEHIND THIS TOO."
>"Srry caps."
Team Mate:
>"yep!"
You:
>"ALL RIGHT 30 SECONDS UNTIL UPS ARE DONE I'M MOVING OUT TAKE THAT BASE!"
>"GOGOOgogogo"
>"srrycaps."
Team Mate:
>:"OMGSTOPYELLINGATMEEE!!!"
You:
>"FFFUUUHHHH!"
>"lol"
hmmm I don't really play terran/protoss so I don't know. For zerg the key swap is not very significant I think because we use both keys equally as much. I only started using the setup today and I'm still not adjusted enough to play vs other people yet though. (i used default aloy settings for zerg) actually i just tried swapping them and i just realized how much more i do use hatchery than queens lol. It's a lot better swapping them imo, you're right.
Yeah I'm liking the feel of it as well, thanks for the feedback. My biggest concern was that the pinky is a really weak finger for some people (myself included-- very much so) but it can become pretty dexterous when trained. It's just kind of hard getting it to that point if you're pinky is as awful as mine. For people without that problem (I assume anyone who competently plays any instrument that requires their pinky, or even really good typists) it would be a huge benefit to swap the suggested Tab and Caps CG's.
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A quick question:
What apm do you guys reach with the FK as terran / toss ? I have been using Fleet Keys for 2 weeks now and from almost 300 apm i have dropped to just above 100, which is quite a significant change in the negative direction. I have also noticed that it has so happened owing to the ALT key for production facilities that hinders the smoothness of "doing the rounds" (I am Terran). Any thoughts on that guys ?
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Also, how is the ability to auto repair handled here ?
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@Beetlejuice1
2 weeks in and your apm dropped by roughly 66%? It's been a few more weeks at this point-- how is it now? It's totally normal for the apm drop, especially if you're new to non-standard layouts. If it's been well over a month and you're still at 100 apm/unable to play then I guess you have the obvious choice to make (discontinue or keep going with it).
Hotkey trainers are available on the arcade if you're having trouble getting used to the bindings.
As for auto-repair, you simply right-click on the icon to activate/deactivate it. Alt+Repair is supposed to toggle it from hotkeys, but I'll confirm that in a bit unless some else chimes in.
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Alt+D works to toggle auto-repair.
I've been using these hotkeys for a while now and my only complaint is the abundant use of alt for things like cameras and hotgroups, it's far too slow so I had to rebind those. And it works out decently.
Depending on matchup and length of game I'm anywhere from 150-200 apm with (slightly modified) fleet keys, so you get my recommendation.
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@Ullis
What does your modified version look like? I'm all for making the Protoss & Terran layouts faster and easier to use so let's here how you made it work better for you.
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On February 26 2014 22:42 eneyeseekay wrote:
@Ullis
What does your modified version look like? I'm all for making the Protoss & Terran layouts faster and easier to use so let's here how you made it work better for you.
Well, I tried removing things that I deemed important to hit instantly from alt modified keys. I'm still toying around with camera keys for where they fit in. Leaning towards either TGB keys (moves units created on T to S) for the three most important camera locations and then the rest on function keys, or just all of them on function keys. Unsure yet, typically I don't use more than 3-4 locations anyway.
For the control group hotkeys I moved them to, a location which most people will dismiss instantly I believe, namely the mouse. I have some variation of a gaming mouse that has a few extra buttons which I have mapped to production hotkeys leaving me with 1-5 on the keyboard for army, tab for CC and 7-0 are on mouse buttons and production. Also using the scrollwheel to click to tab between groups withitn a hotkey group.
Now I can see people not liking having to click things on their mouse for fear of loss of precision however for me it works fluidly and allows me to hit say, Rax->marine instantly as they only require one movement per hand.
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I would like to suggest that the (f2) key will only select units which are active on the field. This means that the units which are ordered to "hold" position (h) will not be selected by the (f2) hotkey. This will allow players to maintain his unit's scouting position and defend against multiple aggression while holding vision throughout the entire game. Thank you very much for considering. I love Starcraft 2 so damn much ! would love to see it becomes more user friendly for new players and other players in general . ^____^
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@Ullis
Ahhh ok, so you're making good use of your mouse buttons then. I only suggest subgroup selection for people with side mouse buttons and even then it's not a guarantee that people will have them. Given the fact that mice can take on drastically different shapes and feature a bajillion different configurations of buttons, I figured it would be easier to just leave mouse usage to each player's imagination. But yeah, subgroup selection is a good option for side buttons. Tabbed production and tabbing through army groups, etc.
As far as loss of precision goes I feel like it's mostly irrelevant if it's what you yourself are accustomed to. Me, I don't even have side buttons, but I have a middle mouse button (Razer Abyssus) and I make good use of it for secondary actions such as centering on selections and drag scrolling.
@Frost bitE
Can you even do that? Selecting only "active" units (I assume you meant army units in particular)? How I understand it is you can only select idle workers or simply "all" of your army units. I hope I'm wrong on that, because being able to select only active units would be a cool feature. Currently F1 and F2 perform subgorup selections to make up for the fact that you may/may not have access to side buttons at any given time. ` (tilde key) currently handles the idle worker/army commands. ` will select an idle worker, Ctrl+` selects all idle workers, and Alt+` selects all army units. I hope the content in this thread helped make controlling SC2 less daunting!
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On February 28 2014 11:44 eneyeseekay wrote:
@Ullis
Ahhh ok, so you're making good use of your mouse buttons then. I only suggest subgroup selection for people with side mouse buttons and even then it's not a guarantee that people will have them. Given the fact that mice can take on drastically different shapes and feature a bajillion different configurations of buttons, I figured it would be easier to just leave mouse usage to each player's imagination. But yeah, subgroup selection is a good option for side buttons. Tabbed production and tabbing through army groups, etc.
As far as loss of precision goes I feel like it's mostly irrelevant if it's what you yourself are accustomed to. Me, I don't even have side buttons, but I have a middle mouse button (Razer Abyssus) and I make good use of it for secondary actions such as centering on selections and drag scrolling.
Pretty much yeah, which is why I can't really recommend general improvements. As you know the number of keys around the area you selected for these keys is a bit limited but I do prefer this over, say, the core due to this being located around the WASD area which is where I spent the last 15 years playing games and know the way around. I do think you use the space very economically in this setup (especially Tab-Q for SCVS, dear lord it's so comfy I have trouble stopping scv production..).
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@eneyeseekay
i would love to put forward the idea of only selecting active units on the field (which are not under the "Hold" position) if we push the f2 button . it's a mere idea baby, we can't really do that in the game atm. but i am more than happy if Blizzard would take my suggestion into account so that players could play the game better. if we could use the f1 feature for idle workers only, i don't see why we cannot do the same for units under the "Hold" (h) position. This will help players to play Starcraft 2 more efficiently and enjoy the gaming experience even more. ^____^
This will help in making Sc2 a more user friendly in general .Thank You !
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Finally have gathered the courage to try alloy out after playing with standard since beta, but before I do, how does spacebar work? Still don't really understand that...
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Why you copy my hotkeys? Oo
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Every time I see this thread, I think it will explain to me how to hotkey a Protoss air army effectively. "How shall I hotkey my tempests??"
Needless to say, I smile every time :D
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@Ullis
Yeah that's why I decided to flesh out a complete and condensed hotkey layout based around using the left side keys, it's what most other players and I are used to and it's easier to transition in and out of. Yeah you can train your muscle memory to do all kinds of things but there's a reason why developers don't encourage highly unorthodox control schemes-- they want their games to be accessible for the majority of players.
With FK using Alt is the first big thing to get used to, and then I would say adjusting to the highly compact, pseudo-Grid format it features. This modified Grid is not hard to use, it's just not Standard so unless you were proactive/aware of changing hotkeys from the get-go, there will always be that little Grid adjustment to get used to. Instead of learning the letter of each unit you basically learn Command Cards, but the great thing is they all follow a pattern of Q,W,E first, and then any other commands. It's just simple. Any guesswork is cut down to a 1 in 3 chance to perform most actions you want, from about a 1 in 26 chance you'd have with Standard. You cut out a lot of room for error and eliminate a ton of reaching!
@Frost bitE
Oh.. So it's not some kind of hidden feature I wasn't aware of? Damn I was hoping it was because it sounded pretty handy. If you want Blizzard to see your idea, I would suggest hopping over here and posting in this forum. I don't think Blizzard pays attention to a thread like Fleet Keys, but there's a good chance they check out their Battle.net ones. I used to play a bunch of AoM and I'm sure that game has a similar feature, I can't see why idle workers and idle army units should be treated differently, but as of now they are.
After some thought about it, I could see players ordering their at-home army units to Hold and the active unit that's going to engage would be selected via a rapidfire idle army selection key, combined with a Move or Attack key for insane spreading/swarming action. If a feature like that existed good Baneling hits would be a rare occurrence haha. Then again, anything that wasn't a Colossus behind Force Fields would have their damage potential mitigated a lot.
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@ Daimai
All right, in the order you asked, explained for you and anyone else with the same questions:
1. Select Q-V keys means that Alt lets you access any Control Groups or Cameras that you decide to layer under Q-V. Q-V covers: Q,w,e,r,a,s,d,f,z,x,c,V. Anything outside of that and you are into reaching territory. I shortened it to Q-V because of room constraints on the sheet and it's just easier to say. Q-V doesn't mean you can ONLY use those keys though. You can use any key with Alt really (excluding Alt+Tab lol).
2. In Protoss & Terran, Space Bar (aka the Smart Key) functions as a key that you can use to perform a ton of actions with. I have it set up by default to do a lot of really common ones and many that require you to press keys that are not on the Q-R row, namely unit abilities. I list tons of examples of what the Smart Key handles on the cheat sheet you see in the OP (right-hand side of the sheets).
Some quick examples of what it does by default in P&T Alloy: Select a worker, hit Space Bar once, it opens the Build Basic Command Card, hit Space Bar again, and it selects Pylon/Supply Depot. Most of the work for keeping up your supply is taken care of for you by tapping the biggest key on your keyboard twice. Hitting Space Bar while you have Stalkers selected lets you Blink, Space Bar with Marines Stims them, Space Bar with Orbitals drops MULEs and on Nexus it activates Chronoboost, etc,etc.. It even lets you set up favorite researches for quick access or un-siege for a retreat. The Smart Key does a LOT for you, if you choose to use it that is. Keep in mind it's fully customizable, so change what you want if you don't like the default Smart Key bindings. It gives your thumb a lot of quick power and range.
In the OP check out the "Additional Info" section for more details of Smart Key and its uses and lots of other good stuff.
3. Since Alt+ selects Q-R, and Shift+ is used to add to all other CG's, it seems to fit in line with all that. Ctrl+ still creates/overwrites all CG's and Cameras, so nothing is changed there. Q-R are layered CG's but are also static ones so it had to be treated a little differently but in the most intuitive way possible.
PHEW lol..
@ No Soldier
0_o ?
@ZenithM
It's more of a reference to how a lot of things in the layout flow well and are quick to perform especially when controlling armies/making workers/checking production. I wonder if many others think the same thing as you. They read the title, shrug, and say "Well someone really likes air units.".
@Everyone
I updated the OP in a few spots. Nothing crazy was added or anything. I Added the Hybrid Settings 2.0 thread to the settings guide section, updated shout-outs, cleaned up the Smart Key section and editing of some other bodies of text for grammatical errors and clean-up.
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Thanks for the detailed write up, I think I understand it now! One more question for the users of this playout, how do you access the Alt-keybindings (by that I mean, how do you hold your hand on the keyboard, what fingers do you use etc)? It feels pretty awkward for me to use alt in conjunction with another button to reach some control groups.
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On March 01 2014 17:28 Daimai wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Thanks for the detailed write up, I think I understand it now! One more question for the users of this playout, how do you access the Alt-keybindings (by that I mean, how do you hold your hand on the keyboard, what fingers do you use etc)? It feels pretty awkward for me to use alt in conjunction with another button to reach some control groups.
I like to relax my hand so that my thumb is laying pretty much straight, with my pinky on Caps Lock/Shift, and my ring/middle/index fingers on Q,W,E/D. Personally, the only keystrokes I find slightly awkward are Cameras 7 and 8 (Alt+C and V), and G. B, G and V are almost always left out because of this.
R or T might be awkward for you if you have smaller hands (this applies to Protoss and Terran production), so I included for R and T alternate bindings of A and S respectively. So what lies on R and T can also be accessed with A and S to reduce reaching. When you mouse over them in-game or check the bindings in the UI, it displays this. This is probably the optimal way to use them, but for the sake of appearing consistent and simple I have them displayed as R and T to follow Grid's appearance/theme.
Edit: I guess it looks something like this? The thumb usually sits a bit closer inwards depending on what is happening. It sort of follows any slight pivoting so it just kinda floats between Space and Alt (please pardon the Android Glimmer filter; I liked the colors :\ ).
+ Show Spoiler +
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Hi.
Love the setup and started practicing with the fleet keys, the thing is i also want to start playing random.
I see the difference between Z and T/P fleet key setups and understand why its set up the way it is and would like to use it the way they are, but since SC does not have a quick way (ie a hotkey) to to switch between different hotkey profiles i suppose i'll have to make sacrifices
Do you have any suggestions how random players can best use the recommended layouts together? Do you random players have any suggestion for me?
Thanks
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@ZedraC
I found that (personally) Caps Lock was a vastly better key for production than Tab (I just didn't edit the sheets yet), so when referring to the cheat sheets, just swap the Tab and Caps suggested CG uses (applies to all races).
As far as I know there's no quick or automated way to switch between hotkey profiles that doesn't require you to open up the menu.
I don't have a clear vision of what a "universal" kind of setup would look like off the top of my head, but I can throw some questions at you that might help you get an idea of what to consider should you make one. Who knows, maybe we could make a decent one that doesn't derail either race. - The big change is going to affect Space Bar's function. So the Keys we should look at are Tab, Caps Lock, Space Bar, Side Mouse Buttons as candidates for re-arrangement.
- How you prefer to Inject? Zerg could have the T/P Smart Key (which would be very cool) if Base Camera was moved to Tab. This means sacrificing your Queens CG on Tab for the Base Camera hotkey. Injects using Base Cam on Tab would look like: Base Cam, box-select Queen, Inject hatch. Offers more Control with less chance of wandering Queens, but is slightly slower than how it is now. You won't have to remove the Queen CG completely though, just add it to another key.
- Do you find the Smart Key's functionality beneficial?
Edit: So here's my proposal for a Random layout. I think the safest and sensible thing to do would be to fuse the Zerg Layout into the T/P layout to form a universal/Random FK Alloy layout. The changes of key re-arrangement for a Random layout would look like:- Remove suggested Queens Control Group (CG 5) off of Tab.
- Re-locate Control Group 5 to the #5 key (same as T&P's layout).
- Base Camera on Tab.
- Hatches/CC's/Nexuses on Caps Lock. This keeps the smoothest key sequence for creating workers the same for each race.
- Smart Key remains on Space Bar. Zerg receives Smart Key bindings for every unit/structure just like Terran and Protoss!
All in all, the biggest change is how Zerg Injects would work. You can still hotkey all of your Queens and do all of the same Inject methods previously available like "The Backspace" method, or "The Mouseless" method. The keys would no longer be set up in close proximity in the case of using a method that uses a Queens CG though. However, you could achieve/regain close proximity if you did something like swap out Tilde's binding with a Queen CG (which could actually be quite fast and flow well). "Camera Injects" stay the exact same so that's good, and box-selecting Queens and Injecting is good too so there is still freedom of choice there.
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Wow,
Thanks for a very thought through answer.
I do find the smart key's function is use full, thats what i want to try using it when playing zerg.
I had similar ideas than you, but yours makes sense regarding the tab and caps swap.
I am starting to experiment and will let you know of how it ends up working for me. My next post may be a while since i get distracted a lot these days playing Hearthstone and Diablo, but i want to make a point of doing SC more.
Thanks for your efforts on this. I for one appreciate it.
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Ok, So after a few days playing around with Fleet keys for random I think I have settled on the following. Decided to post it for in case some one else wants to play random and wants ideas.
I general i re-routed my ctrl, shift & alt to my additional mouse keys, making things a bit better for me as well.
Zerg:
+ Show Spoiler +The major changes I made was removing Contol Group 5 from Caps and making Caps the Base camera for all races.
The injecting method I use is to save every injecting queen on control group (2, 3 & 4). I double click the applicable Queen and my inject larva is on smartkey (Spacebar). The reason I don't like the other methods is because I inevitably get wandering queens during a heating battle in game, and that make me insanely frustrated once it happens. This obviously is just my preference.
My queens for creep spread is all on control group 7 (Q).
ALL my queens are also saved on Control group 5. This helps when you need to defend a strong in coming attack.
This does leave me with only 4 other control groups (1, 8, 9 & 0) for my Army and Buildings, but I am happy with that.
I added smart keys on all my mostly used functions as zerg, like inject, spread creep (from existing creep tumors), building spines etc.
So far I love this setup for Zerg.
Terran / Protoss:
+ Show Spoiler +I hardly changed anything here, except for a few minor personal preferences, but nothing worth mentioning.
Thanks again for the initiative of Fleet keys, I love it.
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@ZedraC
Thanks for giving it a spin. I Just read over your reply, and it sounds like you're enjoying your version of a would-be Random FK layout. Smart Keys for Zerg feels nice, and I think there may be a solid starting point for an actual Random layout on the horizon.
Normally I wouldn't recommend re-mapping your modifiers as there's no guarantee that you can replicate your custom re-mapped key settings in any tournament venue. Buuuut if you don't plan on ever doing that kind if thing then keep on chugging.
I have a few questions about your changes here:- 1. How does the Caps Lock for Hatches/CC/Nexus feel opposed to it on Tab? You decided to just keep it on Tab and use Caps Lock for Base Cam so I was curious.
- 2. What other abilities/spells/commands did you bind to your Smart Key for Zerg? My goal was to fill Space Bar with accurate guesses of the most intuitive abilities for Smart Keys in the T and P layout, what does your take on Zerg look like?
- 3. If you were to use another Inject method using this Random layout (aside from the one you mentioned), what would be the most comfortable configuration for you?
If you, ZedraC, or anybody else has ideas for how a Random FK Alloy layout would look like then by all means post them here.
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. 1. How does the Caps Lock for Hatches/CC/Nexus feel opposed to it on Tab? You decided to just keep it on Tab and use Caps Lock for Base Cam so I was curious.
To me it made more sense to keep all the hatches/CC/Nexus on tab (Control group 6), since early and mid game you use Tab then Q (right next to each other) a lot to build drones/SCV/Probes. Obviously changing this is not a big deal, so either way is perfectly viable IMO.
2. What other abilities/spells/commands did you bind to your Smart Key for Zerg? My goal was to fill Space Bar with accurate guesses of the most intuitive abilities for Smart Keys in the T and P layout, what does your take on Zerg look like?
At the moment I have the following on the smartkey for Zerg:
Drones - Build Basic, Build Spine, Build infestation pit
Hatches - Mutate to Lair / Hive (I am seriously considering changing this to build queen, since you do that more often.
Ovies - Generate creep
Overseer - Spawn Changeling
Queen - Spawn larva, however S works better actually, so not sure whether ill use it on my queens
Infestor - Fungal growth (however i very rarely play with them)
Corruptor- Corruption (however i very rarely play with them)
Viper - Abduct (ditto)
3. If you were to use another Inject method using this Random layout (aside from the one you mentioned), what would be the most comfortable configuration for you?
Answering your question short and sweet: I will do the base camera inject box selecting my queens one by one.
Long version:
+ Show Spoiler +I actually considered all of them. I have experimented. I was thinking of then using control group 7 for all my injection queens, then to inject selecting CG7 (Alt+Q) and then shift hold + s then cycle through my bases with Caps. Wondering queens are still a risk then, thus i am not to keen on using it. When practicing (vs AI) i dont have issues, but in a "real" game i always mess things up (since one queen may die during a drop or something then everything goes haywire .
Normally I wouldn't recommend re-mapping your modifiers as there's no guarantee that you can replicate your custom re-mapped key settings in any tournament venue. Buuuut if you don't plan on ever doing that kind if thing then keep on chugging.
I am 38, a very busy family/business man. If I have 3 hours a day to play, its a bonus!. My highest league to date is only gold, thus tournies will not happen for me, unless they have one in South Africa for the elderly..... ;D.
I play for fun, nothing more.
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So I downloaded the HotS multiplayer file, put it in the ~/Library/Application Support/Blizzard/Starcraft II/Accounts/(numbers)/hotkeys folder, but when I start SC 2, the hotkey settings aren't showing up in my options from the drop-down list. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks in advance.
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@Tritone & all other Mac users
I found this in the comments section of this thread from last year. Nerdballer Metak posted:
~/{username}/Library/Application Support/Blizzard/Starcraft II/Accounts/{bunch of numbers}/Hotkeys
... this might be what you're looking for. I'm going to add the Mac path in the OP now.
REMEMBER! Make sure you "Download" the hotkey files, do not "Save As", it will download a file that looks like a bomb went off in it.
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Coming back to the random key layout, I made some small changes again to by control groups for Zerg and my inject method and want to share an idea or two for your comments.
Previously I said:
The injecting method I use is to save every injecting queen on control group (2, 3 & 4). I double click the applicable Queen and my inject larva is on smartkey (Spacebar). The reason I don't like the other methods is because I inevitably get wandering queens during a heating battle in game, and that makes me insanely frustrated once it happens. This obviously is just my preference.
My queens for creep spread are all on control group 7 (Q).
ALL my queens are also saved on Control group 5. This helps when you need to defend a strong in coming attack.
This does leave me with only 4 other control groups (1, 8, 9 & 0) for my Army and Buildings, but I am happy with that.
I am no longer happy with that after playing a few games. Its clear that having so many Queens on hotkeys it limits you on your other control groups, for example when I played vs a T the other night and went Sling/Bling/Muta, and i wanted to put them in individual control groups it was awkward cause 1 would be the lings, 8 the blings and 9 the mutas, it was a pain in the ass to press alt+w or alt+e to recall the blings and mutas. It makes more sense to have my armies on control groups 1-3.
Injecting and spreading creep (it's a bit boring, but I decided to post it for those who are interested)
+ Show Spoiler +
Once again I am experimenting with having my inject queens on one control group and my creep queens on another. I am trying different control groups together with backspace inject method to see what the most comfortable. Since I currently have control groups 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 an 0 left at this stage it seems logical to me to make my creep queen(s) control group 7 (double tap Alt+Q then a right below it (or shift+a for multiple creep queens) to place the creep tumor(s).
Do you perhaps have other ideas you think would work better?
If I use the smart key to spread/place tumors, that could also work comfortably... going to practice that for a few games and see how it feels.
Now my injection queens are then on control 8, thus to inject I press alt+w and then caps & hold s, caps & hold s, caps & hold s, (for 3 injecting queens)
Do you perhaps have other ideas you think would work better?
Note: I cannot use the fastest option (shift+caps+s method) as my keyboard cannot do the repetitive key thing...)
I must now get used to this setup again, and hopefully this works out better in the long run.
Additional ideas I am currently contemplating:
Scouting:
+ Show Spoiler +
I never used to save scouting ovies or lings on a control group, but a GM zerg suggested I do, thus i am thinking of putting my first ovie in control group 4, and my scouting lings in 5. Any thoughts?
Using the smart key for attacking???
+ Show Spoiler +
I am considering this since attacking is probably the thing you do the most compared to anything else. The obvious problem here is that this will completely throw out the smart key setups for T & P... I thought of just mentioning this to maybe get feedback on your (anyone's) thoughts about this.
Once again, T & P setup remains basically exactly like you had it in the OP. The challenge is indeed to incorporate the fleet keys for Zerg in there...
It would be awesome if Blizz can make a short cut key for switching between Hotkeys in game. That way if you see you are Zerg, you press "short cut" and bam you go to a zerg setup... like you have in the OP.
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@ZedraC
Responding to your topics here--- I'll try to be thorough
Injecting
+ Show Spoiler +There are definitely easier ways to go about injecting. In the past I suggested (for the Random layout) having Tab as Base Camera, and ` as Injection Queens. For the sake of these examples, I'll go ahead and say the Spawn Larva ability will be mapped to the Smart Key. With the way this would be setup, you'd have a few options for injecting that are actually easier on you and your available hotkeys as opposed to saving each Queen on a separate CG and double-tapping each and injecting. - 1. Backspace Method, (Uses Shift, No Clicking Required) - `, Shift+S (Hold Shift until done), Tab+S, for each Hatchery.
- 2. Backspace Method (Shiftless, Clicking Required) - `, Tab+S(or Smart Key), Click, for each Hatchery.
- 3. Base Cam/Box Method (Shiftless, Boxing and Clicking Required - Tab, Box Queen, S(or Smart Key), Click, for each Hatchery.
- 4. Camera Location Method, AKA Layered Injects (Uses Shift, Must Set Up Cam Locations At Each Hatchery) - `, Shift+S (Hold Shift until done), Alt+A,S,D, clicking for each Hatchery.
- 5. Rapid Fire Inject - JaK explains it well in video format here. In our hypothetical Random layout discussed here, it would look like: `. Tab+S (Hold both). You can also set up the Smart Key to do this as well by editing the hotkey file, finding "TargetChoose=LeftMouseButton,S", and adding ",Space" to it. This will make all Smart Key commands Rapid Fire-ready though so beware.
The "Shift+S+Caps" method you mentioned doesn't require you to have full Nkey rollover, you only hold Shift and tap the two keys, no holding the two keys down, just tapping. I'm going under the assumption that you kept Caps as Base camera and didn't move it up to Tab? I explained these examples with Tab as Base Camera, just so you know.
I like 1 and 2 the best. While 5 is the "fastest" and essentially 2 only sped up, it is the most unwieldy imo unless you're really good at it and your keyboard supports it. It can be made a little easier by having the Base Camera and Inject keys next to each other so you can slam on both simultaneously. It's not guaranteed to work, but it's something.
At 3+ bases while using methods 1 and 2 I like to press W to issue Hold Position commands to the Queens CG. It keeps them from wandering, but still lets you attack things that wander within their range. The injection methods above all provide various levels of direct control, but really, W fixes the wandering issue and that's the big one. For method 2, if you are fast at it, you can also avoid wandering because of the Queen inject animation cancels out other non-shift-queued commands during the animation (Rapid Fire Injects work because of this). The methods that use shift are the ones most at risk of wandering, hence the W (hold) suggestion.
Creep Spreading
+ Show Spoiler +For Spreading Creep I generally just use my Middle Mouse Button which is bound to Drag Scroll to skim along tumor patches. Turning up the drag scroll setting in options to the maximum setting is pretty much mandatory for this. I like this a lot because of a few reasons. I also experimented with Drag Scroll bound alternatively to Alt as well, but it's kinda straaaannge...Anyways--list: - 1. Allows you to retain your mouse position without being forced to click around the minimap whenever you need to go somewhere. Accuracy is an essential skill obviously but it's nice to have other options like this.
- 2. Guiding the "Camera/Screen Box" while observing or glancing at the minimap. This plays a big role in spreading creep because you can and will see when the tumors are ready to propagate simply by looking at the purple spread on the map. When you become fast at this, you should be able to be right on top of where you want to be when you decide its time to go there. As mentioned in 1, your mouse position will also be retained during this, so that helps.
- 3. Save on Cameras and Control Groups, and cuts down on extra key combinations (huge benefit).
- 4. Eliminates Edge Scrolling and becomes as precise as you are. It's a pretty big deal, especially when moving your screen fair distances away or in spaces between bases. You can't have a set Camera Location everywhere right?
- 5. Here's the biggest point-- you can produce units from the Hatcheries while Drag Scrolling, making use of every possible second!
Creep spreading is such a preference thing, and this is merely the way I like it and why. If you can make it work your way and you're happy with it, aim for the stars.
Scouting
+ Show Spoiler +It's always good if you can utilize more CG's effectively, and scouting CG's are never a bad thing to have. If you are planning on using 4 and 5, I would recommend actually taking the Alt+R CG (10), and moving it to the #5 key, so you can easily tap 4, (whatever command), 5 (whatever command) quickly. Ctrl+5 can be a bit of a stretch, but Shift 5 isn't really so that's not too bad.
Smart Key bound to Attack
+ Show Spoiler +I love the idea of experimentation with this, but unfortunately I would not recommend it for a few reasons. - You lose a ton of fast-access to important abilities for every unit in the game. That's a big sacrifice especially for a Random layout.
- Leaves you with a lot less room for customization.
- Having Attack on E is the sweet spot for issuing Attack commands with CG's 1 through 3, and is also decent for CG4. Try pressing 1e2e3e, and then try pressing 1Space2Space3Space. 1e2e3e is FAST!
- Space relies on you using your thumb. In any event that you're currently holding Alt near the time you want to A-move, you'll be forced to jump back on to Space and hammer down Attack commands which is a lot more inconvenient than simply jumping to 1e,2e,3e (or 4e) whenever you want.
If you, Zedra, or anyone else wants to provide input, feel free to share. I'm hoping to get some time off from work soon so I can release a finished version of these latest developments. New cheat sheets may also be on the horizon as the current ones require some updating.
A Random FK Alloy layout would really unify everything and simplify the whole experience. As there is no (known) hotkey for hotkey profile switching in-game, this is the next best thing. Actually, it's probably the best thing.
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Hi eneyeseekay,
Thanks once again for the detailed answers. I'm going to try your suggestions since it seems likeI have not yet fully grasped all of the concepts and options out there. I will definitely play around with that this weekend.
Your fleet layout is close to perfect for me, the one thing still bothering me is the inject method. The rest I am very happy with.
Regarding the creep spread. Once again, never thought of that. Going to try that to.
Smart key bound to attack: After posting I realized the same you mentioned. There will be just too many other important functions influenced, so attack is staying on e only for me.
Appreciate the detailed answers. It help a lot.
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@ZedraC
Cool, let me know how it goes!
I've been thinking of adding some new bindings to future files, what do you (or anyone else) think about these?:- 1. Alt+Caps : Select Idle Worker. I think it fits perfectly in line with Alt+Q,W,E especially when it comes to T&P games. It's in line with other macro keys and it sets you up for smooth Build and Build Advanced commands. Prompting you to keep your building production going without having to create more and more specific CG's was my goal here. Slamming Alt+Caps,Q,W,E would give you a near-complete picture of the status of your overall production engine. This would likely help Terran the most due to how SCV's are tied up when constructing things. It's almost like having an accessible, dynamic CG for any SCV's/Probes that aren't doing anything.
- 2. Alternative bindings to select CG's ` to 5. These alternative bindings look like: Alt+`,1,2,3,4,5. The purpose behind this suggestion is if there's ever a time when you're slow to lift your thumb off of Alt when going from Macro keys or Camera Locations right into unit CG selections, this has you covered. This is essentially a fine layer of fool-proofing for the whole system to keep things smoother and as consistent as possible (making small miss-strokes forgivable). This is a change that you may not even notice if implemented, but is kind of mind-blowing when brought to light.
Thoughts?
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1. Alt+Caps : Select Idle Worker.
I think it's a good idea. Just did that on mine. After doing that I thought: Resetting my “Select Army Units” to Shift+Ctrl+`. Do you see a problem with that setting?
2. Alternative bindings to select CG's ` to 5. These alternative bindings look like: Alt+`,1,2,3,4,5
I have not noticed that I had problems with that before, but hey, it won't hurt to change now would it? Also a brilliant idea.
Coming back to my progress on the fleet keys on Random Setup:
+ Show Spoiler +Unfortunately I had computer and ISP issues this weekend so I did not get a lot of time to play around with this, but I did run into more problems while practicing which I want to clear up with you. Alt+Tab: Sometimes I press this by accident and this will send me to my desktop - EVEN THOUGH - I have that option disabled in my settings. I asked about this on battle.net, but no one actually gave any useful advice. This is getting super annoying, so just wondering if you have that problem. The thing is, if I try to replicate this Alt+Tab in a custom game, it does not work??? It’s beyond me honestly why this sometimes happens. Also see my comment below, as it may be related. Base Camera vs Tab(CG 5): I am still using base camera on caps. I tried it the other way around like you suggested, but that messed up everything during a game, so I quickly changed back. It feels (to me) more natural to press Tab, qqq for workers, than Caps, qqq, and for injectecting: Hold Shift, Caps+s, than tab+s. Do you think I must change it and just bite the bullet now until my muscle memory does it correctly after a few games? Adding my injection Queens to my Hatches by accident. This happened in almost every game. Some how I add them together when going through the motions. (So maybe it is related to the caps/tab thing again??) What I think happens, is that i select my Queens (`). Then to inject I press and hold Shift and instead of pressing Base camera (Caps) press my CG6 (Tab) accidentally, thus adding them to CG 6. I thought of preventing this I would re-map adding-to-CG6 to Shift+Ctrl+Tab instead (I do not think it's difficult press, do you? What do you think?) To keep consistency (at least in the CGs that are at risk when injecting) and to avoid further possible errors I made adding-to-CG7,8,9,10 also to Shift+Ctrl+q,w,e,r. I tried it in only two practice games now quickly before posting and I am comfortable with it. Can you think of any other fixes?
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@ZedraC (or anyone following these recent change ideas)
Responding to ZedraC's last post:
+ Show Spoiler +Unfortunately I had computer and ISP issues this weekend so I did not get a lot of time to play around with this, but I did run into more problems while practicing which I want to clear up with you.
Alt+Tab: Sometimes I press this by accident and this will send me to my desktop - EVEN THOUGH - I have that option disabled in my settings. I asked about this on battle.net, but no one actually gave any useful advice. This is getting super annoying, so just wondering if you have that problem. The thing is, if I try to replicate this Alt+Tab in a custom game, it does not work??? It’s beyond me honestly why this sometimes happens.
Also see my comment below, as it may be related.
Base Camera vs Tab(CG 5): I am still using base camera on caps. I tried it the other way around like you suggested, but that messed up everything during a game, so I quickly changed back. It feels (to me) more natural to press Tab, qqq for workers, than Caps, qqq, and for injectecting: Hold Shift, Caps+s, than tab+s.
Do you think I must change it and just bite the bullet now until my muscle memory does it correctly after a few games?
Adding my injection Queens to my Hatches by accident. This happened in almost every game. Some how I add them together when going through the motions. (So maybe it is related to the caps/tab thing again??) What I think happens, is that i select my Queens (`). Then to inject I press and hold Shift and instead of pressing Base camera (Caps) press my CG6 (Tab) accidentally, thus adding them to CG 6.
I thought of preventing this I would re-map adding-to-CG6 to Shift+Ctrl+Tab instead (I do not think it's difficult press, do you? What do you think?)
To keep consistency (at least in the CGs that are at risk when injecting) and to avoid further possible errors I made adding-to-CG7,8,9,10 also to Shift+Ctrl+q,w,e,r. I tried it in only two practice games now quickly before posting and I am comfortable with it. Can you think of any other fixes?
Alt+Tab: I can honestly say I haven't had that issue. I do know that (I'm using Windows 8) I can press Alt+Tab multiple times really quick and the game will eventually minimize. The amount of times seems to be 4+, and it doesn't seem consistent, but it can happen if I want to force it. I have the Alt+Tab option turned off in-game, and I also do not bind any hotkey to Alt+Tab, so it really isn't an issue for me personally. I don't Alt+Tab more than once even by accident, let alone Alt+Tab multiple times quickly (I use Ctrl+Esc to minimize). One question regarding this though--- did you turn your sticky keys off? That could have something to do with it perhaps?
Base Cam/CC's,Hatches,Nexuses on Caps: If you really don't feel comfortable with it after playing a few games (preferably versus a laid-back, stress-free ai) then decide what's most comfortable for you. I won't tell you to bite the bullet, but I will tell you that it helps you get used to using your pinky more which is great because you'll probably be using it for Shift and Ctrl which are pressed a lot. Also, having the "economy" buildings on Caps Locks makes it so you don't have to shift your hand around at all when using those buildings (a huge deal for Zergs especially). If you're using Tab for these buildings however, you have to pivot your hand over and hang even farther to the left side of the keyboard, and then pivot back over Q,W,E. This pivoting and jumping off of Q,W,E works against Zerg A LOT because of the sheer amount of hotkeys in a Hatch, and it also works against Protoss and Terran too because you'll want to stay near/on Q,W,E too (SOOOO MANY bindings reside on those keys!). Like I said though, do what feels best after at least trying the Caps Lock thing. I liked Tab for the "economy" buildings until I tried moving them to Caps Lock, so at one point it felt nice for me too.
Something I learned from the `, Tab and Caps change-up was that I could use Hatches a lot quicker and more "fluidly". However, it was at the expense of a slight slow-down to the adding to inject Queens CG, as well as a small adjustment in inject key locations (basically just a matter of muscle memory). The pivoting/shifting stuff I mentioned above was a huge deal. Overall, this change appears to have a small trade-off that opens the doors for more critical improvements overall. Freeing up Spacebar for Smart Key usage across all races is pretty damn cool as well.
Accidental Adding: So it sounds like you're still holding Shift when you press your Hatch hotkey. You can opt to not hold Shift at all and press Tab+S, Click on each Hatch, attempt to use Rapidfire Inject by pressing and holding the two keys simultaneously, or use Camera Locations to Inject.
The way I do it with Shift looks like: ` with ring finger, and then Shift, S, Tab with pinky, index, ring, respectively. I pretty much slide my ring finger on to Tab, and with that my pinky lands on Shift, it does not touch Caps at all.
As for changing up the methods for adding, it forces you to completely jump off of Q-E which could prove to be a bad thing. It seems like it adds more difficulty and complexity that might not be necessary. But as I say with most things, I can't TELL you to do something, but I can give you why's and why nots. I hope this helped.
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Will there be a version for random on Element?
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@exfriend
I dunno. Haven't really thought about Element in a while. I keep it up there because that's what I and many early adopters started with and as a result it's not as optimized as Alloy, but since it's always been around, people use it to some extent. I think about getting rid of it every time I see that 6 to 1 vote ratio to Alloy vs Element . I do 99% of the work you see in this thread myself so full updates to both Alloy and Element take a long time (new cheat sheets have to be made, hotkey files manually updated and checked for screw-ups, possibly new graphics for thread, etc). It could be something to look forward to in the future, but idk for sure. Maybe if I have more time, or assistance.
Tl;dr:
I don't know what to do with Element atm, let alone a Random version, but I sure would like to see one.
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I tried my hands at Jakataks "The Core " but I couldn't get the hang of that. This one is just awesome. Love in first sight.
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@leviaias
Thanks, glad to help! If you're new to the thread then you may or may not know that there's going to be an update coming along (hopefully) soon where there will be some significant changes made to the layouts. The last few posts above discuss what's going to be happening. Changes being introduced are currently: Smart Key available for all races (essentially creating an "all-race" Alloy layout), Base Camera key binding, Hatch/CC/Nexus suggested CG move, Select Idle Worker key binding, alternative bindings for unit CG selection, Move and Patrol command locations swapped.
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SWEEPING THREAD CHANGES COMING THIS MONTH!
So it's been well over a year since this thread went live. After a year plus, I'm seeing 109 poll ticks from users across all leagues and that's awesome (I'd love to know who those Masters, GM's and Pro's are). Considering that I haven't really pushed this onto the community aside from the announcement post and this thread has only been mentioned a few times here and there (that I could find), I think it's doing pretty good-- much better than I thought it would without any real recurring exposure outside of TL Strategy.
I'm having an incredibly difficult time maintaining all keyboard types/game expansions and game mode types for the Alloy and Element layouts. With every change, the cheat sheets for each version and as well as the file must also be updated by hand and re-tested (a very slow process). So, until I find a way to really streamline this process, there's going to be some big changes being made to the thread and the content within it. I'll be listing some action items below.
Recorded Alloy VS Element usage ratio: 26:4 (87%/13%)
Alloy has clearly been the go-to layout so far. Aside from being the favored one, there's a lot more flexibility to it compared to Element, and that's why the new soon-to-be featured layout is being centered around it. As a result, Alloy and Element will be put on the backburner. That's ok though, because we'll instead have----
A Fully-Featured Unified Layout (Random Race Layout)
This is perhaps the most exciting and significant change that is slated to happen. I'll be introducing a Random layout which is a fusion of the T&P and Z layouts; it's going to feature various other refinements/improvements as well. This will initially be released as a HotS Multiplayer file, supporting QWERTY, AZERTY, and Dvorak keyboards. There will some changes that people may or may not like, but I think this is the best route and most all-around efficient approach. Separate layouts are nice to have, yes, but it makes playing more than one race harder than it needs to be. This new layout fuses all races into one layout with full functionality.
New Sections, New Format
All of the current thread files will remain 100% accessible to the public, in the folders in which they currently reside, but they will be tucked away under the new thread section labeled "Previous Versions". Support for them will be halted for an indefinite amount of time until someone feels the need to update them. Also on the list of things to roll out are new headers to replace the pre-existing ones, a new cheat sheet for the unified layout, and hopefully some amount of overdue video content. As of now, I'd like to have an intro video talking about the layout, a video navigating the thread, a video on where/how to download it and set it up, and a walkthrough of the features/commands in-game. They probably won't be separate, maybe they will, idk. Producing video content is a completely new thing for me.
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Long time TL lurker here.
I'm coming back to sc2 after a long break, and since I have almost forgotten how to play (was masters before I stopped) I want to relearn how to play with a more efficient hotkey layout.
I have always been a fan of grid-like settup, actually I used a custom hotkey settup very similar to Element. I love the idea of a random race layout (I used to play random quite a lot).
So I was wondering, when will you release the new layout's hotkey file? Because I do not want to come back to sc2 until the new layout is released, since I would have to relearn to play with one hotkey settup only to change it afterwards, and I know how painful it is.
PS: If you need help testing if everything works as intended in the new layout send me a PM.
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@DogOnFlames/any one else patiently waiting.
Here's what it looks like as of now.
It has quite a few differences from Alloy. Most things are able to be done faster so it's a huge jump imo. Rapfire Injects and worker splits are now optimized and not just simply "possible". In fact, they are both adjacent to each other and don't extend past G and B so that's awwwwwesome. RF Injects can be done with only your thumb, and RF Worker Splits with only your index; as a result, Stop has been added to the layout, on the G key (you won't need it in any other situation though). The unified approach is feeling great so far.
There's more to it, I'll list everything else when the OP is updated.
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I tried the new layout and so far it looks great.
I remapped the return cargo key, which is set as F6 to something more accessible, like Z, since I use it quite often when sending workers with minerals to an extractor or to build something.
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Feels like a real improvement, I like how much less you have to move your hand about the keyboard.
I'm just struggling a little with the injects. Where do you hotkey your queens now?
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Awesome!
Gonna try your new layout tonight.
Sorry, I know I have been quiet. I just don't play SC enough ATM to really contribute, but i am still following your work on this.
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@DogOnFlames
I'll take another look at it. Return Cargo didn't seem like a very useful hotkey because if you had workers with only minerals, you could click back on the patches and they will automatically return them. If you had a mix of workers with/without minerals, you can Shift+Right-Click the CC/Nexus/Hatch and send them back to the patches. I guess Return Cargo can direct only the workers with minerals back to the base, potentially cutting out one action. Thanks for bringing that up.
@Zanni/anyone else wondering about the state of Injects
Ok, this is where creating a unified layout changes things the most. With the addition of the Smart Key for Zerg, Zerg lost its Base Camera binding on Spacbar, resulting in the relocation of Base Camera to Tab. The Queen's Spawn Larva ability now has a default alternative binding on Spacebar to make Rapidfire Injects as easy as possible. With that, the suggested Queen CG was also relocated from Tab to ` (or 4 if you prefer). Here are the main methods to Inject now. Take your pick.- `, Tab+S, Click, repeat. Tab+S can be pressed simultaneously, or in an alternating fashion. Both are nice.
- `, Shift(hold), Tab+S, Click, repeat (far more inferior than simply Tab+S, Click, but remains an option)
- `, Tab+S (simultaneously), Hold for Rapidfire Inject (timing must be spot-on, C+Space method is 1000% more reliable).
- `, C+Spacebar (simultaneously with thumb), Hold for Rapidfire Inject. This is an extremely easy method, and with Queens on 4, can be performed easier than Queens on `, but is easy both ways.
- ` or 4, C+Spacebar(with only thumb), Click, repeat. An alternative (and possibly easier) method to the Tab+S methods. Queens on 4 with this method is a bit easier, but Queens on ` works fine as well.
- ` or 4, S, Shift(hold), Alt+A,S,D,F,etc. for Camera Location (layered) Injects. This method is pretty much archaic at this point, but it's still an option. It was ok for when you had a lot of bases, but Rapidfire Inject and Tab+S ("the backspace") methods are easier, faster, and don't require any setup.
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I have created my own layout quite some time back (Protoss only), also based on the idea of having a layout similar to grid (and to Alloy). I'm really looking forward to the new version of FK and seeing if I can't start using that and play the other races.
From what I have done, I would like to offer a couple of suggestions which you could possibly incorporate into your (and hopefully my) new layout if you want:
1) Having both the main and alternate ability of certain skills (Force Field, EMP, etc.) might be a problem. A fast repeat rate on the keyboard might accidentally trigger multiple instances of this skill. Other scenarios you might want to be more precise (like only 2 force fields on a large ramp), where holding down the FF button and clicking twice will work better. I would suggest at least having one non-rapidfire button for each skill so that a person can choose which route they would like to go.
2) I love the rapid-fire warp-in, but setting all the buttons doesn't work out very well for other skills (you have rapid fire on building gateways for example which can be a pain depending on how someone does it late game). What I did was to set my "choose ability/target" to "Alt" as one of the options. Now, if I want to warp in a unit, I press the button for the unit and then press Shift + Alt while waving my mouse around. That way I can almost instantly warp in any gateway unit instead of having it limited to only one unit.
Anyway, I hope this helps in making FleetKeys better. I'm happy to help with the testing of the layout and should at least be able to provide some constructive feedback when it comes to the Protoss layout.
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@MilExo
Hey there, it's been a while! I'll try to comment on the points you raised here.
1).
+ Show Spoiler + I know what you mean about the Rapidfire settings. It's been a debated topic since its inception. At first, I felt that it was such a niche, yet extremely potent feature so I settled on the "Rapidfire Trigger" implementation of it. For the situations where you really needed to employ it (mostly Creep Spreading, Warp-ins and Injects) it was sufficient and safe. But then Rapidfire BLEW up, and now it's a given and people want it.
Before I uploaded the new hotkey file, I experimented with putting TargetChoose on: Spacebar, Q,W,E,R,T,A,S,D,F,G,Z,X,C,V,B. Insane? Well, yes and no. On one hand, you could almost do anything with only two keystrokes, but getting used to it was NOT easy. This opened up a plethora of new potential screw-ups. It felt quite reckless because all of a sudden every two keystrokes was doing SOMETHING, and when playing fast, one slight miss-type had me sprawling for Escape to constantly cancel things. It made Warp-ins "scary-easy" though, that's about it.
I took a step back from it, and thought: "How can I push it to the limit without breaking the layout like I just did?" So I broke it down to what needs it the most, and assigned only those keys to it. In this current file, TargetChoose is on Q,A,S,Spacebar. So basically, Zealots can be RF-warped in instantly, Injects are the same, Creep Tumors can be cast and propagated instantly, and RF Injects are super-convenient and neigh-foolproof. Spacebar having RF capabilities also means that if you are building something or need to cast something multiple times you don't need to dance back-and-forth from non-RF keys to RF keys. Simply press the command, and finish it with a Click or with Spacebar if you want, or Shift+Spacebar if you want to RF it.
Q,A,S and Spacebar doesn't seem very intuitive at first, unless you play Zerg (you'll love it), or you try to use RF to Warp-in Zealots or HT's. Rolling your fingers from Left to Right, or Right to Left allows you to perform actions (finishing with Spacebar or Q,A or even S), without using your mouse. Your pinky remains on the Left side, so you can always carry out actions with Shift+ to invoke RF.
There's a lot to explain and various other subtle things that work out well but I can't make this too much longer than it already is/will be, haha.
2).
+ Show Spoiler +I can say that before Element or Alloy were even named layouts, I tried adding the "Warp-in" key to Alt, which was very effective when you were going from a Camera Location to do Warp-ins, but it interfered with unit selections and building selections.
I also tried having Drag Scroll on Alt, which was actually quite fun at first. The fact that your mouse cursor was locked in place AND hidden while holding Alt was a huge downside though. I wish Blizzard would fix that hidden cursor thing for first-person play. It's fine for spectators but damn, I don't like losing my cursor. That experiment was interesting, but was promptly scrapped.
As for TargetChoose on Alt, I can't really apply that to Alloy or the new layout. Shift+Alt+Q/W/E is how you add to those CG's. Another thing is if you have a target called up (Scan, Attack, Drop) and jump to a Camera Location to issue it, pressing Alt would execute it before calling up the Camera. How would Alt be a better choice than Left-Clicking in situations like that?
New layout link for anyone who missed it.
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TargetChoose is on Q,A,S,Spacebar.
That was the 1st awesome thing I noticed.
How in the world did you do that? I thought you could only add one alternative. That is god damn brilliant. Well done, I like the new format so far.
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@ZedraC, this isn't the original link, but this thread by Existor explains how to setup multiple alternatives: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/449934-rapid-fire-mining
@eneyeseekay, it has been quite a while! While I don't always have something to contribute, I'm always around and following a couple of topics with great interest (does sound a bit like a stalker though :s). I can't seem to get a hang of using two keys for a control group, so rather have my other control groups going down the side (R,F,V in my case since Protoss only needs a 3x3 grid for production (and probably Terran too)). I have also never used the "Add to control group" commands. I normally just select my control group, shift+select my new units and then recreate the control group. Probably not the most efficient use.
I really love the ideas you have here and have incorporated quite a few into my own hotkey setup and play. The only two things preventing me from complete switching over is that I like being able to warp in any unit quickly (it really makes a big difference late game Protoss if you can warp in all your units a second or two faster) and also helps if you need to warp in reinforcements while in a battle since you don't need to look away too long. The last thing is the two button control group that my mind just can't seem to get around.
Anyway, looking forward to the new layout, the BETA already looks like a big improvement over the original.
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@ZedraC
Thanks Zedra, and thanks MilExo for the linkage. Yeah, basically you just open up your hotkey and put a comma, a space, and then your next command you'd like to attach to that key. Example: TargetChoose=LeftMouseButton, Space, Q, A, S, etc. I always just experimented with this, but now I actually have the time to make full use of it!
@MilExo / anyone wondering about Q/W/E CG's
I do understand the Q/W/E CG thing. Some people love it and some hate it. A lot of the time, players who come from BW, Standard or Grid can have trouble getting used to Q/W/E CG's because they are accustomed to spamming 4/5/6 throughout games. I would say it's the one thing that can turn people off from using the layouts, but for not using side mouse buttons, it works. 3x3 sounds nice with R,F,V. Have you taken out certain commands to clear out the 3x3/RFV setup? I've been actively trying to avoid putting commonly used keys on Z,X,C. The way this new layout works is more like 4x2, and when Z,X,C is in use, there is likely an alternate bind for that command on R, D or F. For Starport/SGates and Robo's/Factories, units that would land on R and T usually have an alternate bind along A-F. I try making use of any free keyboard space I have. MilExo, Send me a link to your hotkey file and I'll check it out?
When it came to you trying out the Q/W/E CG's, did you try out a custom game, set up your production and just practice unit production for a while? I found that to be the best way to get a feel for it; lots of raw macro in a vacuum to drill the Alt+combo in to make it automatic (worst case, you get used to it, you still don't like it, and you move your cameras up to Q/W/E/R for even quicker Camera Location access!). It's not so much about checking the same structures over and over and over again, it's about getting the info you need from all of your structures very, very quickly without moving your hand out of place, and then filling the queues up and leaving them for a short time until the next quick sweep.
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@eneyeseekay, my layout is purely for Protoss (I suck at off-racing, but could also be because I don't have the proper hotkeys setup for the other races). For Protoss there are some inconsistencies in grid, because gateways have Q,W,E,A,S for units while Robo and StarGate uses Q,W,E,R,T. I have thus moved everything to match the gateway layout. The only place where I moved something out there is for sentry hallucination where everything isn't entirely needed. I also have one control group still on 7 that I don't use.
I really want to start using more hotkeys and play the other races as well, so looking for a way to adapt my layout without impacting my current game too much. Your layout is very similar and I love the idea behind everything, so it makes it a logical transition. I'll send you a link to my hotkey file if you want to play around with it (just try the warp-ins, you'll love it).
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Hi,
I was "practicing" the new hotkey layout a bit again last night. I still like it but need to get the hang of all the new features. I like the inject options. Takes getting used to but very nice. I have not decided which one i prefer yet. Will let you know for interest sake.
Quick questions for now: (knowing you, you'll probably write an essay again) 
1. What was your reasoning behind making a Queen E and not W? I'm just curious.
2. You have the Select army on UP. This makes me think you never use this and also don't think other guys are using it, so the question is: Is it a bad thing to use the select army hotkey? When playing Zerg I am in the habit of adding my eggs in the applicable CG and rarely use it, but when playing T & P I find the Select army very useful for the new units that came out recently when I want to reinforce quickly (and adding them to CGs). For now I remapped mine to shift+v, but think you could help me with a better option.?
Edit, made a correction
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@ZedraC
1. This was actually the last change I made to the layout before posting the link, and I'm glad you asked. In the past, I had it on W. It was about as easy as it gets in terms of accessibility, and it followed the grid pattern perfectly. The reason it was moved over one key to E is because it was extremely easy to queue-up Queens by accident when you would try to morph Overlords. On E it's still super accessible, yet intentional instead of almost automated (much like how Drones and Overlords are in the layout through finger-rolling).
There is a possibility that this could be an isolated issue that only I would experience during testing, but it's one that cropped up every so often and became much more frequent after the Hatches/etc CG was moved to Caps Lock. Feel free to switch it and try both W and E to see if it's an issue for you.
2. You're absolutely right. I moved those away for two main reasons.
One, was as you stated, I don't encourage the use of it, but I used to include it for brand new players. Army CG's and Unit Commands are so readily accessible, it's good practice using at least 3 separate army CG's for various purposes. 3 sounds arbitrary, but think-- you'll at least want a main army CG, a spellcaster CG, and a harass/run-by CG right? The Select Army hotkey takes all of that control away from you and condenses your army into a single ball of units. Terran and Protoss need to rely on efficient army CG's even moreso than Zerg. If you aren't dealing some form of damage as Terran, you're likely falling behind. If you're not controlling your spellcasters efficiently or you need to comeback with some Warp Prism or even Oracle harassment, separate CG's will help a Protoss player tremendously.
Two, I simply had to make room for another CG on the ` key. It was a great reason to send that Select Army hotkey packing. Idle workers was also on that hotkey, but I relocated to a position where it's really convenient for Rapfire Worker Splits.
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After several months of reading only, there is a thread that made me to create an account
I found FK yesterday and will not have a chance to try it before tomorrow, but I really like the concept (oh my god, just thinking about space+space instead of that damn B+S for supply depot makes me thrilling). So, I dig into Alloy hotkeys file, and after that, into Universal Beta file (just in case it may be better and don't require much learning from alloy). In general, I like the latter more, but some changes are questionable for me, so I'd like to know the reasoning behind them.
1. Q for move, R for patrol. I never use (and I doubt if anyone does) Move command because it is bound to Mouse Right Button, why did you move it to the left instead of throwing it away to something like UP for Army Select? On the contrary, Patrol is very important command, and it's moved to the right border of Q-V sector.
2. While I agree with A/S for reactor/techlab instead of Z/X, I think X for land/lift is harder to reach than C.
Also, there is one suggestion - add Space to make an OC from CC, because in majority of games the first three bases are OC, and many games are finished before the fourth base
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@ kamimaiku
Hi,
I'm not attempting to answer for eneyeseekay. Just want to say that you must remember the FK layout is a suggested layout.Making a few small changes (i do) to suit you and what you like does not break the layout. You can still benefit from the general idea behind this big project.
I also want to redo the move command. I am still contemplating whether its gonna be hold or patrol though. (also see below as to my reasoning for this). I have also moved a few of Z keys to X to suit me.
eneyeseekay has however (as you must have noticed) been researching and trying many many different things out for a long time now and he usually has a good reason for the changes. that being said, I still have a few questions of my own and make changes where i feel it should change to suit me...
 PS. Just for a facepalm, not discussion: I played a game yesterday and was holding Q a lot when I had my army selected, or my creep queens (thus ultra spamming move). My APM was 150 APM more than usual!!! - woohoo  . So the one (vain) benefit is that you can make your APM look impressive. {add a :facepalm: Smilie TL!}
@eneyeseekay
This W(hold) thing have been "troublesome" for me now and again. When I box select a couple of workers in the mineral line to to build a gas, I end up "holding" my other selected workers in the process by accident (I am obviously clicking W once to many times). This is why I am thinking of moving hold to Q. I think this would solve my issue and am going to try it later today. I still want to mention this though to find out what you think.
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@ ZedraC
What you said is exactly the reason of my question. I know that I may not give a single thought about suggested layout and reassign any keys of it as I like, but I see huge amount of work done by eneyeseekay here, so before throwing his ideas away I would like to know logic behind them.
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Hey guys,
I was working with the fleet keys, and I absolutely love them! however, there where some issues, which I thought could be done better for the zerg, and I adjustes my fleet keys a bit. This is how I adjusted it:
Problems i had:
- Too many drones problem: Tab->Q->Q sometimes makes to many drones
- No larvae problem: Tab->Q->W doesn't make a overlord when no larvae are there, thus creating a queen by accident
- 'Hard' injects: The Caps Lock-> Shift (hold) -> S -> Space inject method was hard to master
- Tunnel far: Tunnel was a bit far to reach
- Hatcheries The control groups for the buildings are a bit hard to reach
So i changed it in such a way that I would minimize the amount of movement of my fingers, and could do my favourite things up front.
So this is how I default sit on my keyboard:
Pink on Caps. ring finger on A. middle finger on S. Index finger on D, thumb on Space.
As I am mainly producing drones and overlords, and do larva injects, I wanted something easy. And I decided to do it as follows:
CAPS: select all hatcheries
A select larvae
S produce drone
D produce Overlord
When you want to produce a Queen:
select hatcherie of choise -> press Q
Sometimes you create a Queen by mistake, as there are no larvea, and you use the shortcut of the hatcherie. To make sure I never make a queen by mistake, I didn't bind the queen to any of the units that I can produce (thus W for lings, E for roaches, etc.). For the same reason, the A key is not attached to any unit
As my hatch was now on the CAPS LOCK row, I decided to switch the control groups from QWER to ASDF, giving me even less key strokes to use (and i put the camera positions on the QWER row instead)
But the CAPS was used for the queen larva inject. So I now do it as follows:
SHIFT+Z is the group for my queens (and thus, I sacrifice 1 camera location)
CTRL+Z is to create it
CTRL+SHIFT+Z and ALT+SHIFT+Z is to add to the group
So what happens now, when I want to larva inject:
SHIFT (hold)+Z+S+SPACE. All can be done by 4 different fingers (so super quick!)
I put the tunnel at F (just a preference, closer to my ASD keys)
And because I am a noob, I also binded the 'all hatcheries' control group at TAB (so at TAB and CAPS LOCK), so miss pressing is less of an issue, when you are ion the heat of a batlle.
I changed the spawn infected marines to put it on the Rapid Fire key, as I thought it would be more usefull than the other key).
And one very last thing. All the upgrades where at QWER row, but I also put them on the ASD row, making my hands to move even less.
I now played a few games with it, and my macro got even better than it was! I hope it is helpfull to some other players.
I uploaded my layout here, for people who want to test it: Fleet Geert mini
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@kamimaiku
1. The Move command isn't the most used key, you're right. The reason I moved Patrol to R and Move to Q is that Patrol now sits more comfortably next to Attack which is nice because they are similar but not the same. Being able to issue Move commands when going for surrounds, never worrying about miss-Right-Clicking enemy units is important. 1,E and 1,R are very close to each other and can produce similar results even if you miss E and use R instead. It's much safer to have Move on Q and Patrol near Attack. Accidentally issuing a Move command instead of Attack during an engagement can and will cost you a game. This decision is mainly a consistency/foolproofing one.
2. I'll take another look at that. Finding good spots for Terran building hotkeys is the only dreadful part of designing a layout tbh. Well, that and Campaign hotkeys in general. On one hand you need to be able to Lift and Land, but on the other, if you accidentally Lift a structure because the hotkey is too accessible you're actually helping yourself lose. Like I said though I'll take a look at it.
@ZedraC
I thought I took that target canceling command off of W (Hold Position)? W is also not a Rapidfire-enabled key in the new layout (linked it below in Geert's response) so nothing should be impeding anything. The target cancel was a cute trick for the Zerg-only Alloy layout. It was originally for finishing off an Inject round and disabling the target so you can avoid being forced to Right-Click. Unfortunately, this causes problems when thrown into a Random layout.
@Geert
I'm glad to hear about the changes, because some of what you wanted is already implemented in the upcoming hotkey layout ( <--click this).. With this new layout, Caps,Q,W,E will be the "ideal position", but it's great to see (from your post) that you've been able to shape the layout around your own comfortable resting position.
The layout in the link is not currently featured in the OP yet. It's quite different than the Alloy layouts, while still holding many similarities. This layout is a new unified one for all races and will be replacing Alloy and Element. Alloy and Element will be moved to a new "Archived Files" section of the new thread format so people can still access them if need be.
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On July 17 2014 09:44 eneyeseekay wrote:
@MilExo / anyone wondering about Q/W/E CG's
I do understand the Q/W/E CG thing. Some people love it and some hate it. A lot of the time, players who come from BW, Standard or Grid can have trouble getting used to Q/W/E CG's because they are accustomed to spamming 4/5/6 throughout games. I would say it's the one thing that can turn people off from using the layouts, but for not using side mouse buttons, it works. 3x3 sounds nice with R,F,V. Have you taken out certain commands to clear out the 3x3/RFV setup? I've been actively trying to avoid putting commonly used keys on Z,X,C. The way this new layout works is more like 4x2, and when Z,X,C is in use, there is likely an alternate bind for that command on R, D or F. For Starport/SGates and Robo's/Factories, units that would land on R and T usually have an alternate bind along A-F. I try making use of any free keyboard space I have. MilExo, Send me a link to your hotkey file and I'll check it out?
When it came to you trying out the Q/W/E CG's, did you try out a custom game, set up your production and just practice unit production for a while? I found that to be the best way to get a feel for it; lots of raw macro in a vacuum to drill the Alt+combo in to make it automatic (worst case, you get used to it, you still don't like it, and you move your cameras up to Q/W/E/R for even quicker Camera Location access!). It's not so much about checking the same structures over and over and over again, it's about getting the info you need from all of your structures very, very quickly without moving your hand out of place, and then filling the queues up and leaving them for a short time until the next quick sweep.
eneyeseekay, I sent you a PM with the hotkey layout. The biggest problem I have with Alt + Q/W/E is that Q/W/E are also being used for building something. Lets take the following example: in many instances you need to build something with Alt + Q and then Q/W/E. In the case where you use Alt Q + Q, you might end up accidentally double-tapping Q if you press Q before Alt is completely released (which will take you away from your army view, etc.) If you go Alt + Q and W without releasing on time, then you might select a different production building. If you wanted to build two "W" units, you might end up building something from a completely different building.
I love having all the control groups close, but not the idea that you have to release a key on time before you can build. I find this happens quite easily especially if I re-use the same keys for building units.
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Well, I tried FK (universal beta) today and, after all, I kinda agree with MilExo. QWE CGs are the most difficult part of layout because of selection with Alt. It is really easy to scroll through production buildings, but I constantly miss buttons while producing units.
Is it just a matter of practice to get used to it?
As I said before, I added magic Space for OC. Also, I switched keys for reaper and marauder almost immediately - while massing MMM, I constantly made reapers instead of marauders. After that change, things became way better.
And, of course, there is no words to describe all the pain during transition But I think it's too early to make a choice, at least before I reach my usual APM again.
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As a non-user, I've always been irritated by the control groups with Alt in this layout. When I look at how often Terrans, for example, queue up marines when going bio – probably up to 10 times or so per minute – sequences like Alt+Q, Q or Alt+Q, W must be way too slow. I don't want to shit on eneyeseekay's work, but no matter how dexterous you are, all this pressing and releasing of the Alt key seems really inefficient.
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@ velvex & MilExo
I think pressing Alt+Q/W/E is much better than reaching for (for example) 6/7/8 (what i used previously). I find the FK layout much better than any other so far. I think if you just play with it for a while you'll get used to it quick. Anyway, just my opinion.
Can you think of other solution that will suit you better. What are you currently using?
Edit 1:
There was a brief moment a few weeks ago I thought of having my production buildings on 2/3/4, but just quickly thinking about I decided not to even try, since having the armies there is way more important.
Edit 2:
@eneyeseekay
There is no way you can rebind alt to another key correct? Once I know this I'll elaborate on why I ask...
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On July 21 2014 18:54 ZedraC wrote:
Can you think of other solution that will suit you better. What are you currently using?
In my setup I have hatcheries on W and inject queens on S. I have two more control groups on Q and A, so if I were to play T or P, I'd probably use these for more production buildings.
Production control groups are probably the most important control groups, except one or two army hotkeys maybe. I'd value them higher if I used this setup, similar to how TheCore does.
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ZedraC, currently I am using 1,2,3,4 for my production buildings with R,F,V as my main army hotkeys. I also have hotkeys on ` and 5 (scouting) and another on 7 (not used).
While R,F,V works quite well for me (only need a 3x3 grid for Protoss), this makes it difficult for me to off-race which is something I would like to do a little bit more. Thinking about making Q,A,Z my other control groups and just shifting the entire "grid" one block to the right, but that moves my hand a bit too far away from Alt which I press with my thumb.
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velvex, I agree with the production control groups being more important than the army control groups. For me the macro is more important so I want to be able to do that as quickly as possible, even if it is at the expense of a little bit of micro.
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Hello all, I'm condensing this post. I advise you to please read at least the first section,
First: What's wracking my brain in terms of the new layout, then "Good News", followed by "Bad News".
NEW MAJOR LAYOUT DEVELOPMENT! Keep it? Bin it? Include in official release? Include in a test file? Input please!?:
+ Show Spoiler +- Alternative Select Camera Locations added to Alt+1-4 and Alt+R (or F?). I don't like that they will most likely be created with Ctrl+A-F/Z-V. However, recalling them with Alt+1-4/R and A-F is amazing. It feels nice not having to go down to Alt+Z-V for cameras. Players will be able to float around the 3x3 area of 1-D and be able to easily access 6, that's almost all 8 Camera Locations. It's a scary jump in efficiency, but it's not intuitive right away and that kind of bothers me.
You'll be guaranteed to have 6 of your 8 Cameras under 1-3 and A-D and the last two Cameras adjacent to them on Alt+R,4 or F?....I need some feedback on this one. It feels like a breakthrough, especially if they are suggested/presented to be set up like: - "Up to 4 Offense/Map-Control-Oriented Camera Locations", layered under the 1-4, or ` - 3 keys. Allows for sequences like: Recall Camera 1 with Alt+1, then 2,E to send Army CG 2 there. Also allows for Alt+1, (holding Alt), Q, then Warp-in whatever. That's a finger-rolling motion that carries out a Cam recall, and army CG select, and an A-move command-- it's insanely efficient.
- "Up to 4 Defensive/Base-Reactionary Camera Locations", pretty self-explanatory. Alt+A or something, jump to a base Camera or whatever, do your thing. React appropriately. Bonus: you can RF Worker Split easily now: Worker box or Ctrl+click, or double-click, then G, V+B (hold/wave). Tack that on a "Defensive" Camera recall and you have an easy way to mitigate damage from certain AoE harass options while not even going lower than A-F for Cameras!
Splitting the two rows into Offensive/Defensive Cameras is a great concept in my opinion. Not only can it be an efficient arrangement in terms of accessibility, it's also a very easy concept to absorb for anyone learning about Camera Locations for basic, practical purposes. As of now, the potential woes I've taken into consideration are as follows: - Setting the Cameras with Ctrl+A-F and Ctrl+Z-V. Recalling with Alt+1-4 but creating with Ctrl+Z-V could be odd. The good part is, Alt+1-4 bindings are only alternative bindings of Alt+Z-V, so recalling Z-V is totally unaffected, apart from the fact that they are now purpose-driven.
- Limits Layered Injects to roughly 4 to 5 Cameras by default. Not a huge deal really (depends on the user I suppose). Offset by 2 ridiculously easy Rapidfire Inject methods, and both Backspace methods (mouseless/mouse).
- If you don't release Alt right away after using another Alt+command, you might accidentally jump to the Camera Location instead of an Army CG.
- Throws up the question: "So I can't check my Q/W/E's and select my Army CG while still holding Alt? Instead, I can access Cameras way easier?". My answer to this atm wants to be: "It's better to have superquick Camera Location access than a safety net for a slow thumb (that's what that feature is essentially). Newer users may not like it, experienced ones might fall in love with it. Sorry and you're welcome?". Whether this is actually truth idk. I think it might be?
- It's not overly straight-forward and intuitive; it has the potential to complicate the simple design of the cheat sheet. Seems silly, but I need the sheet to give a good idea about the layout without throwing way too much/confusing imagery. I'd hate to rely on a video to show a feature like this, rather than simply glancing at an image and be able to say: "Yeah ok, cool." This is mainly a design woe that I could make work, but I figured I'd list it anyway.
Good News:
+ Show Spoiler + I should be upgrading my PC some time this month. Yay. Also, the new thread images for the new format are done, the revamped cheat sheet(s?) are pretty much complete (same idea but a bit prettier) and I'd like to create some video content to go along with some of the written stuff--- video content and I are total strangers, so it's safe to say that I'm a bit nervous about them. Scratch that, the thought of creating video content makes me quite anxious (yeah, yeah, laugh it up).
I suppose my need to stay invisible in terms of video content exposure benefited some community members so that's quite an honor and all-around good thing, but it doesn't really help this thread at all. I'm not gonna lie-- when I see high level (or any level) players propagating Creep Tumors and Warping in Gateway units at inhuman speeds I smile every time. The world's better or at least more interesting with Rapidfire.
TL;DR: I'd like to make video content for all this layout stuff. I avoided it like the plague because I'm a wuss, but I'm down for forcing myself to create a least some..
Bad News:
+ Show Spoiler + (If you're not interested in my PC situation or (current/prospective) components list, just skip this) My once-lovely PC of like 7 years is starting its long, drawn-out death throes, and I'm in the market for a new rig. I still do everything with it today and I'm using it as I type this. In 2007 this PC was the shit considering its price and the use I got out of it. Intel D975XBX mobo, Intel Q6600 Quad Core @2.4ghz, EVGA GeForce GTS SSC Edition GPU, 8 Gigs of Ram (DDR2, not sure of RAM specs), dual monitor setup, Saitek Cyborg keyboard red-- recently replaced by a DasKB/blue, and then a CMStorm RFTK/reds and some mediocre PSU. The mouse was like some kind of stock Dell one, idk. I have an Abyssus standing in for that atm. The components I'm looking at (I'm not planning to ever overclock, and I'm not worried about power consumption):
+ Show Spoiler +- Case: Enermax Coenus Gun Metal (mid-ATX, good options/hardware, looks seeeeexy)
- Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD7 ( has everything I need in terms of io/fans and PCI ports/also satisfies my choice of RAM)
- Processor: AMD FX Series FX-9370 ( 8 cores @4.4Ghz stock, sweet spot for power/price, somewhat high power consumption but w/e )
- RAM: Corsair Vengeance Pro Black 16GB 2X8GB DDR3-1866 CL9 Dual Channel, x2 for 32Gb total ( might seem excessive, but modeling/rendering 3D scenes, especially high res sculpts/large images with loads of 2000+pixel layers can chew through a lot of memory effortlessly. This puts me in a good spot for a long time, and should a single, or worst-case two sticks fail, I'll still have more than enough during the replacement time. They're also on sale. So yeah. RAM.
- For GPU's, it's a toss-up between various higher-ish-end RX280 models and a couple of cheaper RX290's. ( On this, I am really torn. I'm Looking for one that's a decent price, can do 4k resolutions without dying and has 1k+ clock speeds. By far the toughest decision imo. )
- PSU: Doesn't matter too much. 1000-1200(max) watts. Still working out what I'll actually need, mosty GPU-dependent at this point.
- Cooling: I'd like to pick up some liquid cooling heatsink. ( something at about $80-110.00 max. )
Yeah, I could spend a fortune on Intel/Nvidia parts, but I know that my current components can do more than enough for me, for at least 1/2 of the price of a higher-end Intel/Nvidia rig. I'm not rich, lol! I put this thread business on hold because I don't know if my current PC will even be working by next week. It simply needs to be retired. So, I directed my attention to shopping around for a new rig that (I hope) won't cost me over $1700.00. I'm preeeetty close to completing it. With regards to the $200-300 price mark for many of the components, I think I hit the sweet spot for what I need. I plan to game on it and use resource-intensive art-related programs, including 3D software. I'd like to eventually stream reliably with it too. I don't want to compromise for anything in the 1080p realm of things, and I'd like to have a decent mid-range setup for when 4k resolution becomes much more prominent. I'll get quite a few years out of this rig while being able to do the things I like at a price point I can agree with.
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@eneyeseekay
This cameras concept sounds very interesting, but I would include it as test file after universal layout release.
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On July 22 2014 16:48 eneyeseekay wrote:Hello all, I'm condensing this post. I advise you to please read at least the first section,First: What's wracking my brain in terms of the new layout, then "Good News", followed by "Bad News". NEW MAJOR LAYOUT DEVELOPMENT! Keep it? Bin it? Include in official release? Include in a test file? Input please!?:+ Show Spoiler +- Alternative Select Camera Locations added to Alt+1-4 and Alt+R (or F?). I don't like that they will most likely be created with Ctrl+A-F/Z-V. However, recalling them with Alt+1-4/R and A-F is amazing. It feels nice not having to go down to Alt+Z-V for cameras. Players will be able to float around the 3x3 area of 1-D and be able to easily access 6, that's almost all 8 Camera Locations. It's a scary jump in efficiency, but it's not intuitive right away and that kind of bothers me.
You'll be guaranteed to have 6 of your 8 Cameras under 1-3 and A-D and the last two Cameras adjacent to them on Alt+R,4 or F?....I need some feedback on this one. It feels like a breakthrough, especially if they are suggested/presented to be set up like: - "Up to 4 Offense/Map-Control-Oriented Camera Locations", layered under the 1-4, or ` - 3 keys. Allows for sequences like: Recall Camera 1 with Alt+1, then 2,E to send Army CG 2 there. Also allows for Alt+1, (holding Alt), Q, then Warp-in whatever. That's a finger-rolling motion that carries out a Cam recall, and army CG select, and an A-move command-- it's insanely efficient.
- "Up to 4 Defensive/Base-Reactionary Camera Locations", pretty self-explanatory. Alt+A or something, jump to a base Camera or whatever, do your thing. React appropriately. Bonus: you can RF Worker Split easily now: Worker box or Ctrl+click, or double-click, then G, V+B (hold/wave). Tack that on a "Defensive" Camera recall and you have an easy way to mitigate damage from certain AoE harass options while not even going lower than A-F for Cameras!
Splitting the two rows into Offensive/Defensive Cameras is a great concept in my opinion. Not only can it be an efficient arrangement in terms of accessibility, it's also a very easy concept to absorb for anyone learning about Camera Locations for basic, practical purposes. As of now, the potential woes I've taken into consideration are as follows: - Setting the Cameras with Ctrl+A-F and Ctrl+Z-V. Recalling with Alt+1-4 but creating with Ctrl+Z-V could be odd. The good part is, Alt+1-4 bindings are only alternative bindings of Alt+Z-V, so recalling Z-V is totally unaffected, apart from the fact that they are now purpose-driven.
- Limits Layered Injects to roughly 4 to 5 Cameras by default. Not a huge deal really (depends on the user I suppose). Offset by 2 ridiculously easy Rapidfire Inject methods, and both Backspace methods (mouseless/mouse).
- If you don't release Alt right away after using another Alt+command, you might accidentally jump to the Camera Location instead of an Army CG.
- Throws up the question: "So I can't check my Q/W/E's and select my Army CG while still holding Alt? Instead, I can access Cameras way easier?". My answer to this atm wants to be: "It's better to have superquick Camera Location access than a safety net for a slow thumb (that's what that feature is essentially). Newer users may not like it, experienced ones might fall in love with it. Sorry and you're welcome?". Whether this is actually truth idk. I think it might be?
- It's not overly straight-forward and intuitive; it has the potential to complicate the simple design of the cheat sheet. Seems silly, but I need the sheet to give a good idea about the layout without throwing way too much/confusing imagery. I'd hate to rely on a video to show a feature like this, rather than simply glancing at an image and be able to say: "Yeah ok, cool." This is mainly a design woe that I could make work, but I figured I'd list it anyway.
I should be upgrading my PC some time this month. Yay. Also, the new thread images for the new format are done, the revamped cheat sheet(s?) are pretty much complete (same idea but a bit prettier) and I'd like to create some video content to go along with some of the written stuff--- video content and I are total strangers, so it's safe to say that I'm a bit nervous about them. Scratch that, the thought of creating video content makes me quite anxious (yeah, yeah, laugh it up).
I suppose my need to stay invisible in terms of video content exposure benefited some community members so that's quite an honor and all-around good thing, but it doesn't really help this thread at all. I'm not gonna lie-- when I see high level (or any level) players propagating Creep Tumors and Warping in Gateway units at inhuman speeds I smile every time. The world's better or at least more interesting with Rapidfire.
TL;DR: I'd like to make video content for all this layout stuff. I avoided it like the plague because I'm a wuss, but I'm down for forcing myself to create a least some.. (If you're not interested in my PC situation or (current/prospective) components list, just skip this) My once-lovely PC of like 7 years is starting its long, drawn-out death throes, and I'm in the market for a new rig. I still do everything with it today and I'm using it as I type this. In 2007 this PC was the shit considering its price and the use I got out of it. Intel D975XBX mobo, Intel Q6600 Quad Core @2.4ghz, EVGA GeForce GTS SSC Edition GPU, 8 Gigs of Ram (DDR2, not sure of RAM specs), dual monitor setup, Saitek Cyborg keyboard red-- recently replaced by a DasKB/blue, and then a CMStorm RFTK/reds and some mediocre PSU. The mouse was like some kind of stock Dell one, idk. I have an Abyssus standing in for that atm. The components I'm looking at (I'm not planning to ever overclock, and I'm not worried about power consumption):
+ Show Spoiler +- Case: Enermax Coenus Gun Metal (mid-ATX, good options/hardware, looks seeeeexy)
- Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD7 ( has everything I need in terms of io/fans and PCI ports/also satisfies my choice of RAM)
- Processor: AMD FX Series FX-9370 ( 8 cores @4.4Ghz stock, sweet spot for power/price, somewhat high power consumption but w/e )
- RAM: Corsair Vengeance Pro Black 16GB 2X8GB DDR3-1866 CL9 Dual Channel, x2 for 32Gb total ( might seem excessive, but modeling/rendering 3D scenes, especially high res sculpts/large images with loads of 2000+pixel layers can chew through a lot of memory effortlessly. This puts me in a good spot for a long time, and should a single, or worst-case two sticks fail, I'll still have more than enough during the replacement time. They're also on sale. So yeah. RAM.
- For GPU's, it's a toss-up between various higher-ish-end RX280 models and a couple of cheaper RX290's. ( On this, I am really torn. I'm Looking for one that's a decent price, can do 4k resolutions without dying and has 1k+ clock speeds. By far the toughest decision imo. )
- PSU: Doesn't matter too much. 1000-1200(max) watts. Still working out what I'll actually need, mosty GPU-dependent at this point.
- Cooling: I'd like to pick up some liquid cooling heatsink. ( something at about $80-110.00 max. )
Yeah, I could spend a fortune on Intel/Nvidia parts, but I know that my current components can do more than enough for me, for at least 1/2 of the price of a higher-end Intel/Nvidia rig. I'm not rich, lol! I put this thread business on hold because I don't know if my current PC will even be working by next week. It simply needs to be retired. So, I directed my attention to shopping around for a new rig that (I hope) won't cost me over $1700.00. I'm preeeetty close to completing it. With regards to the $200-300 price mark for many of the components, I think I hit the sweet spot for what I need. I plan to game on it and use resource-intensive art-related programs, including 3D software. I'd like to eventually stream reliably with it too. I don't want to compromise for anything in the 1080p realm of things, and I'd like to have a decent mid-range setup for when 4k resolution becomes much more prominent. I'll get quite a few years out of this rig while being able to do the things I like at a price point I can agree with.
Depending on if you play a lot of SC2 still I'd definitely get an i5 as the single core performance blows any AMD out of the water..! http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4670K-vs-AMD-FX-9370
However if not, since rendering seems to be important maybe that's not much of an impact on you. Also you don't need a PSU anywhere near 1000 watts unless you are playing to Crossfire in the future.
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22 Jul: I am going to try the Camera location thing. Think it is a nice idea.
Will set it up myself tonight and try it out.
Thinking about it now you can alternate nicely between your bases (for example camera locations 1-3) and your armies (CGs 1-3) and minimize the movement of your fingers. Thus Alt+1/2/3 then double tap 1/2/3 for example. Sounds easy enough.
Will play around.
25 Jul: The change was not bad at all. I felt right at home using your suggestion and having the Go-to-Cameras 1-4 on ALT+1-4 is lovely. I have not tried more camera hot keys as I have never used more than four before.
Now for another error that occurred to a friend of mine: I am typing this on behalf of him as he never visits TL.
I introduced him to FK element long ago and he liked it. Has been using for a while now.
When your latest changes came through I e-mail him the hot key layout and he started experimenting. After two games he changed a few things the way it suits him and went to bed.
The next day, when he went into a game (custom as he wanted to practice only) he's UI was blank in the middle and right section. He could only see his minimap.
For two days he thought it was a blizzard fault, but before he decided to re-install, he thought to change back to the original FK setup (as this was the only thing that changed). Doing this fixed the UI.
Strange but true... Question is now, Have any of you experienced something like this before? The UI going blank?
I don't intend to go , but this error occurred when trying a new hotkey setup.
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@ZedraC
That is truly bizarre. I've never heard of the UI crapping out due to hotkey issues. I've had issues where my UI turned pink, which occurred after I changed my graphics settings to the Hybrid Settings, but that was fixable. The only thing I can really suggest is to keep the "allow toggle conflicts" set to enabled, or try to replicate the problem and document it in detail so it can be properly tackled.
As a new user, I'd skip past Element and check out Alloy, or even better, the version that will be taking the place of both of them, for all races. I won't be updating Element and Alloy myself in the foreseeable future.
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EDIT: File updated, info in this post is outdated. Click for updated info.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/404476-fleet-keys-refined-hotkey-systems?page=21#407
As for the camera configuration in the new layout, I'm going to try something a little different here and assign them/break them up like so:
3 Forward Cameras (#1,2,3) - Proxy and/or harass locations, edge of creep, Creep Tumor paths, Rallies.- Create #1,2,3: Ctrl+A,S,D
- Recall #1,2,3: Alt+1,2,3
1 Free Camera (#0) - Exactly what it sounds like. Also good as a 5th Base Camera.- Create #4: Ctrl+R
- Recall #4: Alt+R
4 Base Cameras (#4,5,6,7) - Set these Cameras to Main, Natural, Thirds, etc.- Create #4,5,6,7: Ctrl+Z,X,C,V
- Recall #4,5,6,7: Alt:A,S,D,F
Quick Reference image below, TL;DR: Maaassive gains, but doesn't look as neat on paper. Is that really a problem though?
+ Show Spoiler +
It looks better on paper to have them split evenly, like Cameras 1-4 on Alt+1-4, and Cameras 5-0 on Alt+A-F, but that limits the effectiveness of Layered Camera Injects a lot by cutting down on one possible Base Camera, and we all know how Zergs like to have all the bases. The Camera Location on #0 (on Alt+R) is also easier to reach if you have smaller hands so the R location helps in that regard too.
Setting up the cameras might be the strange thing to get around initially and I totally understand that. It's not perfectly straight-forward like the old setup. The alternative is creating some kind of complicated multi-modifier combination for creating Cameras. Even in that case, we would be inviting in a lot more room for error. So, the best way at the moment is to keep the create hotkeys on A-D, Z-V and R. You won't need to set up Z,X,C,V more than once a game, and it can be done at the beginning of the game so that's great.
So..... Yeah. How about that?
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What about something like Ctrl+Alt+1 for forward cameras? I really dislike the difference between creation and recall buttons.
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What if we add alternate keybinds for creation of the macro control groups (Q, W, E)? As adding or selecting them already requires pressing ALT, I think that it would be more consistent if we could also create them while pressing ALT. That way we would have two options to create the control group : CTRL + ALT + Q, or CTRL + Q. This makes it so no matter if you are selecting, adding to or creating a macro group, you can always have alt pressed.
Also, even though CAPSLOCK does not require pressing ALT, since it is a macro group we could add alternate bindings that use ALT, both for selecting (which I think is already implemented in the last beta version) and for adding to or creating the control group.
Maybe you have already considered this and it creates some kind of unwanted side effects. If so I would like to know your reasoning on that matter.
I believe that it would add consistency and an extra level of security in case of mistakes, making the layout even more foolproof.
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@Kami, Dog
You both bring up good points, and I think we can go with something like what you are suggesting.
I was thinking... Shift+Alt adds to the current layered CG bindings, so it might be better to have the "Create Camera" hotkeys on Shift+Alt as well. It's so much easier to do than going down to Ctrl+A-D,Z-V. Being able to create cameras with Shift+Alt also means that unless you have to re-write a CG or you want to Ctrl+Click a unit (you can just double-click instead if you want), there's not much reason to ever go all the way down to Ctrl and that's awesome. Considering that this would affect the creation of every Camera Location, this cuts down on a good chunk of required hand movement, not to mention the huge amount of consistency players would enjoy. Anyone have an opinion or suggestion towards this?
Alt+CapsLock as an alternate binding to select your CC's/Hatches/Nexuses was included a while ago to allow a player to hold Alt while going through every macro CG quickly, making for a painless sweep of all the macro-related keys. It's a nice addition and makes monitoring things much smoother. The first thing I tried was binding the Warp In hotkey to it, which was nice but exclusive to Protoss, Then I experimented with Select Idle Worker, and found that it did not help Zerg at all. Finally, it was clear that Select Idle Worker was better off reserved for worker splitting on V, which also allows for selecting all Idle Workers with Ctrl+V; this was impossible while bound under Caps Lock.
And so Alt+Caps remains an alternate method to select what would be bound to Caps Lock.
Edit: Since this is a new page, I'll re-post the up-to-date link for the new layout:
This does not have the Shift+Alt change for creating Camera Locations.
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Return cargo is an important hotkey that should be bound to something easy just saying.
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@eneyeseekay
Well, I'm just starting to learn camera usage and assign cameras for all three bases at the beginning of game, so Shift+Alt doesn't affect me much, but I feel it is good for consistency and reducing Ctrl usage.
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Added a clickable image/banner that takes the user to the new hotkey file download
Updates in the new file- Create Cameras is: Shift+Alt+ A,S,D,R,Z,X,C,F. Recalling them remains the same. This is overall much more consistent, and much easier to perform.
- Moved Gather and Return Cargo to Z,X. Even though right-clicking can do most of what these commands do, I agree with reps)squishy. There's really no excuse to have them so far away.
- Fixed a few default and alternative bindings for Protoss and Terran (structures within the Build Basic and Build Advanced menus. Not a huge deal.)
@Kami
I totally agree, the consistency is great. Since your thumb should not be a stranger to Alt and should always be somewhere either between Alt and Space or on Alt itself, it's actually much quicker and easier than going down to Ctrl. Shift is used a lot, so if we can find a way to keep players near Shift it makes everything much easier. There's so much less effort required for the pinky, so it can focus on things like Shift commands and initiating rolling macro commands.
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@eneyeseekay
Is it really impossible to make Create/Recall camera on the same buttons? I mean Shift+Alt+1/Alt+1 for one row and Shift+Alt+A/Alt+A for another.
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@Kami
I did some testing with just that. I wanted to see how that key combination interacted with Control Groups. The main thing I was looking to confirm was if the Shift portion of the Shift+Alt+1,etc command would cause selected units to be added to the group accidentally.
Good news, it doesn't add anything to the existing army groups. You could have your army on CG 1 and have something selected and create the camera on 1 (Shift+Alt+1), and it will only create the camera, not add to CG 1.
However, something did crop up in testing, and it kind of sucks but it's avoidable. I found that if you are planning on issuing a Shift command after jumping to a camera, you cannot hold Shift in advance before recalling the camera or it will overwrite that camera with your screen's current position. Like I said, it isn't great, but idk, it's avoidable. It isn't like it's overwriting a whole army CG, it's a Camera Location, they're easier to recreate, but still it could be an issue.
Anyone care to share their thoughts on this?
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For me, it's not an issue at all, because I do camera recall and shift+command separately. I already used to that, so current version is completely fine.
But I have another question - is it possible to assign a hotkey for repair autocast? Or all autocasts can be enabled by right-click only?
Ok, it's Alt+[ability hotkey]. Then the question is - can we modify the modifier key? Alt+F seems okay, but just in case. Wait, it's one of cameras So we definitely need something for that. I'll try to test tonight.
Also, I have yet another terran suggestion - add Space key unburrow widow mine/unsiege siege tank. It is very hard to hit D instead of bumping Space, and for me, counter-intuitive also.
This has considerable con - if both burrowed and unburrowed mines are selected, hitting Space will burrow them all. But as long as Space is just an alternative, this is not a big deal, and I like it waaay much.
And what about my previous suggestions - exchange keys for reaper/marauder and add Space for making OC?
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@Kami
Yeah, sorry I missed that part about CC's, I can definitely add that in.
Edit 2: The idea behind that was you may want to queue up more than one SCV at some point so being able to hit Q and Space could do it in essentially one stroke. You always get Orbitals up quick, so I totally agree here, Spacebar might as well morph the CC to an Orbital. It's also a little more consistent with OC's and their Mule ability, and Protoss's Chronoboost on Space.
I don't think it would be wise to start swapping units around on the command cards unless it's to compensate for something that's excessively hard to reach or could use a more helpful alternate binding. In 99% of cases I'd like the Command Cards to be presented simple and easily, but also provide alternate bindings that allow for customization or optimization for specific needs. People can (and do) always change something to their liking, so just try to swap and change whatever commands you don't agree with on the layout you personally use.
Edit 1: Oh yeah, regarding the Spacebar binding for unsiege/unburrow. Do you really think it's safe to have unsiege and unburrow on Space? I'm trying to keep them as deliberate bindings because if you unsiege and unburrow by accident or perhaps when trying to Stim at the start of an engagement, you might as well press F10+N right there. A and Space to siege/burrow, S and D to unsiege/unburrow is very safe and won't cause you problems like an accidental unburrow/unsiege, so we'll be leaving them the way they are (again, feel free to try it out in your layout file).
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Okay, W for marauders will be my personal special tacticstweak And I agree with your opinion about consistency through all command cards.
Well, I didn't encounter any Spacebar misshits ever since I use FK, so I assume this is rather safe. What I do know, it's that I have really tough time when I need to reburrow my mines and need to hit anything but not the same button for burrow action. Okay, if you find this questionable/unsafe, don't do this, and I'll try to research whether it's really safe through practice and give more feedback in the future.
Finally, I didn't find any possibility to change autocast modifier at all. And testing revealed that Alt+F does autocast repair until Alt+F camera isn't in use. After that, Alt+F recalls camera location. This means I either shouldn't use autocast button or corresponding camera button. It doesn't sound good, but I don't see any appropriate solution for this situation.
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the swarm host rally is pretty important for a player to be able to use the mechanically challenging unit. And worker rally is useful when using nydus play.
Here is my version of the the new one that is under construction.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ggw19hd6d5qb6ub/My Fleet.SC2Hotkeys
Explanation for my control groups
http://www.reddit.com/r/allthingszerg/comments/2c6q64/ctrl_and_shift_control_groups_and_hotkeys/
Explanation for my Camera keys.
I use Control+Shift to make my camera location keys because you can use ALT+Shift to make a layered base cam for easy injects.
Set camera keys up by Ctrl+Shift+ASDF
Hotkey all queens
select all queens press inject key (S)
hold on to shift with pinky also hold on to alt with thumb
ring will be on A middle on S index on D and run through ASD clicking on the hatches.
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On July 31 2014 03:46 kamimaiku wrote:Okay, W for marauders will be my personal special tacticstweak And I agree with your opinion about consistency through all command cards. Well, I didn't encounter any Spacebar misshits ever since I use FK, so I assume this is rather safe. What I do know, it's that I have really tough time when I need to reburrow my mines and need to hit anything but not the same button for burrow action. Okay, if you find this questionable/unsafe, don't do this, and I'll try to research whether it's really safe through practice and give more feedback in the future. Finally, I didn't find any possibility to change autocast modifier at all. And testing revealed that Alt+F does autocast repair until Alt+F camera isn't in use. After that, Alt+F recalls camera location. This means I either shouldn't use autocast button or corresponding camera button. It doesn't sound good, but I don't see any appropriate solution for this situation.
I would say put repair to T or the worker gather key Z which seems to be a useless key for the average player. That camera issue is a pretty big deal. The linear ASDZX is going to be broken but if you want a repair key you will need to make sacrifices.
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Thank you eneyeseekay for your hard work here! About to try out the FKs. With my fingers manly used to FPS in the last couple of years the FKs seems great . Tried out the standard hotkeys (horrible) and the grid hotkeys (much better, but could still be improved) so far...
What is the current status of the updated FKs? Are you about to post a new update soon or is the update on the 29th of July the one to start playing around with?
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Why is Q set as an alternate for Choose Ability or A.I. Target?
EDIT: Btw, for some reason when holding down Tab (Base Camera), it doesn't jump from base to base repeatedly, it only jumps once. If I bind Base Camera to another hotkey and hold it, the camera keeps jumping from base to base until I release the hotkey, which is what I need. Why does Tab work differently?
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I really like this system, it's intuative (more so than more complicated key binding concepts). So thank you for all your hard work. I really like the cheet sheet (pics of what's bound where) It makes things a lot simpler to learn.
A small point, on a UK QWERTY keyboard for the option select idle worker and select all army units, the default binding is ALT + ,
I assume these should be bound to the key to the left of the number one, just below F1 F2 etc. The default binding puts these keys to the comma, just l̶e̶f̶t̶ right of M.
After rebinding these they appear as the following entries in my .sc2hotkeys file.
ArmySelect=Alt+OEM8
IdleWorker=OEM8
Frankly not sure if this is just a simple error, down to keyboard layouts, or my mistake. But I thought I would mention it.
A question though: Why is the W key also bound to the ability target cancel?
TargetCancel=RightMouseButton,W
Am I missing out on some neat trick, or is it just a conveinience thing? As I find when building stuff with my SCV, I can just press and hold whichever key and it starts to build as soon as I have the required minerals. But with W also bound to cancel target you can not do this when you try to build a refinery.
Anyhoo, thanks you for your great system, it really is a vast step up over grid, or the standard layout.
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Hey there, So I have been playing starcraft for years, and have been used to standard with slight alterations on hotkeys, but i've always been amazed at different customizable hotkeys and i downloaded and started your system and i see how it can be rewarding...
I've been a protoss player for forever. I average about 150 apm playing standard
I've been playing around with it to become familiar and it seems faster, the biggest problem seems to be using the alt key when i want to recall buildings really quickly or having to use alt to go to map positions, one thing I was curious about was what if you had side mouse buttons? I'm not sure if this is tourney legal but what if a side button was mapped to ALT, for example say the first thumb button is alt that would make recalling control groups and map positions so much smoother and quicker... i remapped mine to that and it's pretty phenomenal, and also remapped the second mouse button by my thumb as the warp in key, but it's nice to have essentially your right thumb controlling when alt is pressed because i feel like my left thumb gets kind of contorted.
because if that is possible... then maybe changing camera positions using alt+1-4 would be wicked quick, and you could use Z-V to set them, my idea is that setting them early at the very beginning would be beneficial, z for main, x for nat, c for third, v for ramp, so as follows ALT+1 recalls main, 2nat, 3 third 4 ramp etc... seems logical and a-f can be used for on the fly
just something i randomly was messing around with because i really like your system.
I just don't know if that's tournament legal or not.
I used to use the thumb keys for previous and next subgroup but i find that using your hotkeys that f1 f2 work well for that.
You did a great job for designing your layout i'm gonna experiment and practice with it and see if i will switch over. 100 apm my first try with your hotkeys after a little "hotkey trainer", but i really like how simple it is.
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On September 29 2014 10:57 d00b wrote:
Hey there, So I have been playing starcraft for years, and have been used to standard with slight alterations on hotkeys, but i've always been amazed at different customizable hotkeys and i downloaded and started your system and i see how it can be rewarding...
I've been a protoss player for forever. I average about 150 apm playing standard
I've been playing around with it to become familiar and it seems faster, the biggest problem seems to be using the alt key when i want to recall buildings really quickly or having to use alt to go to map positions, one thing I was curious about was what if you had side mouse buttons? I'm not sure if this is tourney legal but what if a side button was mapped to ALT, for example say the first thumb button is alt that would make recalling control groups and map positions so much smoother and quicker... i remapped mine to that and it's pretty phenomenal, and also remapped the second mouse button by my thumb as the warp in key, but it's nice to have essentially your right thumb controlling when alt is pressed because i feel like my left thumb gets kind of contorted.
because it that is possible... then maybe changing camera postions using alt+1-4 would be wicked quick
just something i randomly was messing around with because i really like your system.
I just don't know if that's tournament legal or not.
I used to use the thumb keys for previous and next subgroup but i find that using your hotkeys that f1 f2 work well for that.
You did a great job for designing your layout i'm gonna experiment and practice with it and see if i will switch over. 100 apm my first try with your hotkeys after a little "hotkey trainer", but i really like how simple it is.
I can't see how binding stuff to a mouse side button could be illegal, for the simple fact that if Blizzard didn't want you to do it, they would not program that ability into the configuration system.
I might have to give the way you've bound stuff a go, as I too find it a little unintuative. I understand why the default method of ALT + QWER for buildings is used, but if I put all command centers on TAB (no modifier used) You can't hold down ALT and scroll through production facilities and all command centers, you have to keep remembering to release ALT for all the command centers. I guess the simple answer is to put all command centers on Q, rax's on W, factories on E, and starports on R, maybe TAB could then be used for the non-specialised cannon fodder part of the army.
Also a way around this is to to use the NEXT / PREVIOUS subgroup keys more. Perhaps even bind those to the mouse side buttons.
Another option that occured is to use the F1 - F5 keys for production or even camera locations, but this then detracts from the compact layout, which maybe defeats the point!
Anyhoo, thinking out loud here.
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Hi,
Ok, even though I have been quiet here, I have been using and experimenting with this since my last post, except I am no longer playing random, only zerg.
One thing that is constantly annoying the living crap out of me is that some how using this new setup I tend to switch the in game sounds off. So the question is what is the short cut for this (I assume ctrl+s but not sure) and where do I change it?
What I also wanted to ask is:
1. Where do you suggest I save my creep queens? I usually use Q for that but maybe there's a better option.
2. Wandering queens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! W is suppose to make them stop. why does it not work? I cannot for the life of me figure this out. It happens to me when I inject too well, thus a queen at the hatch is not ready yet, then another one will start to walk toward that hatch when i try to inject.
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On November 18 2014 23:04 ZedraC wrote:
Hi,
Ok, even though I have been quiet here, I have been using and experimenting with this since my last post, except I am no longer playing random, only zerg.
One thing that is constantly annoying the living crap out of me is that some how using this new setup I tend to switch the in game sounds off. So the question is what is the short cut for this (I assume ctrl+s but not sure) and where do I change it?
What I also wanted to ask is:
1. Where do you suggest I save my creep queens? I usually use Q for that but maybe there's a better option.
2. Wandering queens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! W is suppose to make them stop. why does it not work? I cannot for the life of me figure this out. It happens to me when I inject too well, thus a queen at the hatch is not ready yet, then another one will start to walk toward that hatch when i try to inject.
Have a look here to see what your current sound binding is, and to change it:
Menu > Options > Hotkeys (bottom left of the options screen) > click the Global button > expand the 'UI' section, the setting is in there.
eneyeseekay made some great 'cheet sheets' for his binding system, it suggests default binding to use, it's uploaded here;
http://i.imgur.com/R2Grkp9.jpg
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Is this active at all?
I tried Alloy for a while, began to like it, and now this new layout kinda made things complicated again. Last beta comes from August, and I can't help but notice some inactivity here.
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Is this active at all?
I tried Alloy for a while, began to like it, and now this new layout kinda made things complicated again. Last beta comes from August, and I can't help but notice some inactivity here.
Hi,
I do not know what happened to eneyeseekay as he used to answer almost every post in here. Hope he is ok.
The thread may be quiet, but I am pretty sure there are people using fleet keys. eneyeseekay's latest beta changed mostly because I ask for a layout for random instead of race specific. I love the new layout even tho I made changes to suit me. If you prefer the old layout you can always change the keys you are not comfortable with or seems complicated to you to suit you.The principle of fleet keys is imo still very good and less complicated than that of TheCore.
Don't get me wrong, TheCore is brilliant once mastered, but Fleetkeys are just easier to learn.
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Hi there everyone, it's great to be back. I've got some good news and some bad news. Bad news first. Bad news is I decided to put the project on the backburner for a good while, (but I'm back now--I guess it's not really news in that case). The good news is my firstborn is going to be arriving any day now, and I've got the next month+ to return to this thread and hammer out the rest of the project well before LotV is released!
The "new layout beta" cheat sheet was very close to being done before I took a step back from this. New headers were done as well as a bunch of format changes for the fabled thread overhaul. The last thing I recall is there were some issues cropping up with the ctrl+s and ctrl+d functions. I also had to go back and rethink injects, as they ventured into a strange place with people wanting Rapidfire Inject functionality, creating arguably "the best" binding for it, and then having a non-RF inject method that fit well into an "All Race" layout.
I looked over the last page or so. I'll explain briefly in my next post what the status/reason is behind them. Short answer is some things from Alloy carried over to the new layout and they just need removing. Others are conflicts from using commands I was not aware of myself since I never actually used them (ctrl+s/d). Anywho, I'm looking forward to rolling out this beast of an update very soon.
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eneyeseekay, congratulations on your first born Great top have you back, Alloy was the layout which sparked my interest in dedicated custom layouts! Am using an archon style merging of Alloy and Core light currently, still can't settle on a definitive layout though.. always seems something else to tweak or alter! Look forward to your new layout!
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I was working on the hotkey file and hit a rather nasty bump.
There is a serious conflict occurring between the binding CameraSave5=Shift+Alt+S and Shift+Alt+S Shift+Alt+A/S/D/F when performing the Layered Camera inject sequence. This sequence looks like: ` (or w/e you want your inject Queens on), S, Shift (hold), Alt+A/S/D/F/R (R if injecting a 5th base). This needs fixing badly, and I think I know what I have to do. I'm not happy about the solution, but I've been weighing the pros and cons of it and it seems better overall.
- Instead of using Shift+Alt+A/S/D/F to create cameras 4,5,6,7, I could move them down one row to make it Shift+Alt+Z/X/C/V.
The pros:
1. It eliminates foreseeable conflicts and won't require the release of a non-Layered Camera Inject version. The one file will work for everyone.
2. You only have to set them once at the start of a game and forget about them as they're intended use is for static base cameras.
3. The bindings being set to Shift+Alt+Z/X/C/V should be familiar to older users of Alloy/Element.
4. It's really hard to miss keystrokes and mess up your cameras because creation commands reside along the bottom row out of the way.
5. No more layout swapping when playing as Random or when off-racing.
6. Every inject option is available and functions well.
The cons:
1. Using Shift+Alt+Z-V to set with Alt+A-F to recall is not as intuitive as Shift+Alt+A-F to set with Alt+A-F to recall.
When testing the Z-V create bindings it was largely a non-issue. If you're used to creating the cameras with A-F, it can feel a bit awkward, but the great thing is you only do it once in a game and it's not like you're going to the other end of the keyboard to do it, it's just one row down. Displaying this on the cheat sheet might look slightly confusing, but I'm confident I can present it in a way that makes sense.
Edit: If you're a Zerg or Random player and you don't ever see yourself using Layered Camera injects, you can revert back to A-F to set as if nothing changed.
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On January 08 2015 22:05 fruity. wrote:eneyeseekay, congratulations on your first born Great top have you back, Alloy was the layout which sparked my interest in dedicated custom layouts! Am using an archon style merging of Alloy and Core light currently, still can't settle on a definitive layout though.. always seems something else to tweak or alter! Look forward to your new layout!
fruity, I am quite interested to hear which changes you have implemented and what your current layout looks like. Maybe some of these suggestions can also trigger some new ideas for eneyeseekay.
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@MilExo
I'm currently preparing a changelog (it's about time!) of all the new changes I've made since the initial beta release, save for a few instances of adding alternative binding of A/S bindings to Z/X which doesn't affect anything unless you have a habit of missing keys. The changes on this list are better bindings that are easier to reach. There are also many alternative bindings that allow for different ways to go about using hotkeys such as double/triple queuing Zealots and Marines and double-queuing Probes and SCV's for example. It's pretty neat.
Something interesting I discovered fro the first time through experimenting is that it's possible to double the effectiveness of Rapidfire-bound abilities (crazy, right?). If I wanted to spend less time spamming Infested Terrans, I could have two separate Infested Terran or Propagate Creep Tumor hotkeys with Rapidfire functionality in place, and use a keyboard's N-Key Rollover to execute the commands at twice the speed by pressing the keys simultaneously. It looks absolutely insane, and it's included in the beta build I'm working on now. While not the most practical thing in every situation, it takes Rapidfire a step further and I'm all for that. Doing repetitive actions at twice your keyboard's repeat rate is a sight to see.
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On January 12 2015 14:58 MilExo wrote:
fruity, I am quite interested to hear which changes you have implemented and what your current layout looks like. Maybe some of these suggestions can also trigger some new ideas for eneyeseekay.
Am doing a graphic, should have soon.™
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@fruity
Post a link to the hotkey file so we can have a look at it! 
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Greate job! This layout has a very big potencial. I have to admit that it isnt easy to change old habbits, and it takes time use to new layout but its worth!
I have change only three things:
* "R" - for STOP. I cant imaganate any resone to use 'Move' command.
* "D" - for Ultralis Caveran. So I have all buildings on two lines of keyboard. (Same as it looks with Spine and Spore)
*Most problem that I had was habbit of holding 'Select larve' button, in standard it dosent maters but here I produce Drones automaticly by that, so where moments whan I spend all larves and saternly I see push coming up on minimap, I need units fast but I dont have larve so I hold Q and whan larves pop out I have +8 Drones but no Lings to defend :'(
I have left "Q" on 'Select larve' but moved all unites from this line by one sig ("W"-Drone, "E"-Ovi, "R"-Ling, "T"-Roach) I feel much safer with that.
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@chochlik
Hey thanks.
The keystrokes for making the majority of Zerg units is a simple roll of the fingers-- Drones, Overlords, and Lings being the easiest. It's just a tap of your pinky, ring finger, and then hold for Drones. What I think you're saying is it's too easy to Drone with the layout? If that's the case, then awesome! Keep in mind, if you move everything over one key, you'll be forced to reach farther, which may or not be uncomfortable. I'm not sure if the current file features this yet, but I added more alternate hotkeys in addition to what was already there. One of those was Space Bar for Drones for double queuing. If you want to create multiple Drones but do not want to dump your Larva into them, try using the double queue. Bindings like that also work with your keyboard repetition, so depending on your keyboard, you can press a key and its alternate binding simultaneously, and the game will produce at double your repeat rate, which is great for large Drone rounds and large amounts of Zergling production.
Zerg production fits in nice to this all-race layout because of the rolling motions and lack of repetition. If you feel that you can't get used to rolling through Caps/Q and then other keys, try going into a hotkey trainer map. The best and fastest way to improve your hotkey muscle memory is through hotkey trainers, so if you really don't enjoy the way the Q-T row is set up, a few minutes in one of those will give you an idea of what will be comfortable for you. This will make your unit production much more effortless and accurate-- after 2 10 minute sessions, you'll have a good idea as to what feels best (or feels bad) for you.
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@eneyeseekay
Thank You for so fast respond!
Before I stated usuing Alloy I was useing 4control groups, no camera locations and only 3 fingers on keyboard (index and middle finger, 3rd one - thumb only for inject) Yes, my mechanics were aweful Now whole this season Im working purely on mechanics. Now Im useing "hotkey trainer" two times each day. The layout I use Drones was only on Q, maybe on 'beta' thay are alsow on Space Bar. From two days I use mechanical SteelSeries 6GV2 with PS/2 but donno why I steel cant use two buttons at once Oo (sdddddddddddddd) so steel I cant use rapid fire injects or try that Q+SpaceBar methode. Maybe new keyboard is broken and I should exchange it? or I do somthing wrong? I have some other questions with fingers. I should use fingers same as on this pic?![[image loading]](http://www.zs1wyszkow.edu.pl/uploads/2b9l69(1).jpg) '1'+'E' feel very weird for me, I need to twist my arm for this
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@chochlik
There's been a lot of talk about why some keyboards work and some don't when trying to do simultaneous key repetition but I'm not sure if it's ever been thoroughly figured out. The Rapid Fire Hotkey Trick thread here has a lot of discussion on it. I haven't followed it for a while, so a breakthrough might have happened.
As for that picture, I don't entirely agree with it, whether it's "proper" or not. I find my ring finger is better suited to reach for 1, `, Esc,, and my pinky is used for Tab,Caps,Shift,Ctrl. This is different when typing, but only slightly. The pinky is always shorter than the rest of your fingers, so why you would be expected to stretch it up to the number row is beyond me, haha.
1,2,3 are best used with your ring, middle and index to reduce awkward reaching and twisting like you mentioned. 1,E, 2,E, 3,E is (imo of course) very comfortable and quick to perform when performing it like:
Ring=1, Index=E
Middle=2, Index=E
and then either Middle/Index=3, and Index E.3.
Get used to that and you'll be surprised at how fluid attacking and moving multiple groups can feel.
Shift+` is admittedly the toughest action to perform, but I recommend Inject or creep Queens or rally structures to go there, so it is always deliberate, and you can't easily add units that don't belong in it.
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@eneyeseekay
Well I have allready instaled "Q~typing" and started practice so I get to use new keyboard and use 5fingers =)
"Shift+`" - in layout that I use there in no action like this Oo maybe I have download some old version. On my ' - is Idel worker and `+Alt is Whole army. Queens are on Shift+CapsLock - but thats not easy eather ;P
I will go and cheak that thead
Thanks agane for help!
e; readed - my keyboard dosent work for rapid fire injects:'(
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^
Here's the latest version. The final release I'm holding back has some differences but it's not going to flip everything upside down on people. I'm not ready to release it just quite yet-- I want to have videos done up for it and a channel in place for it (and more).
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After a few days of useing it I have rebind unit production keys on standard, after years spend on standard I was making to many missclicks and 'Select larve' holds... Othere than that and changes I posted previes, rest (buildings, cameras, control groups, abilitys etc.) I use from Zerg Alloy. Never before useing all control groups,cameras and abilitys was so easy and comfortable like in this layout! Greate job! Big thanks agane =)
e;btw I dont understand why this topic has only 22pages and Core ~370pages... Oo
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I don´t get what to download at Dropbox...
Lots of folders and in those folders even more folders.
What to pick? Zerg, Elements.
T.T i am sorry
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I would recommend the beta file (at the top of the OP), or Alloy. There are multiplayer and campaign versions, so choose which one you want to use among those. There are also other keyboard types supported.
For the beta file, it is only multiplayer/QWERTY atm.
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I downloaded it and just got a .txt now. The Hotkeys are saved as SC2Hotkey data not .txt
What do i have to do to change the data? I can´t see it ingame listed as .txt
:-/
Quote: Notepad rules. Got it. Thanks!
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I must be dense. Looking at the card for Alloy I just dont get it. The Element one, yeah, I can see you have Grid embedded in there. But the Alloy one... For one, there is no "Stop" command. Why? That seems a whole lot more important than "move". People Move by right clicking. But if you accidentally target fire your own building with a tank, you want to click Stop pretty badly.
You moved "spells" into the middle row, but what does that mean for things that were in the middle row?
To figure it out do you need to just download it and look at the command card for awhile?
Another thing, what the heck does the hand with the Q and V next to it mean?! You use that icon on both Element and Alloy but don't define what it means anywhere. Maybe it was in a previous, older, version of the docs? Is there a video showing this off somewhere? You seem to talk about the prospect of making one in a few places in this forum but I could not find one.
I use a modified grid and if this has keys in a less "fingers get tangled" way I could be interested. But as it stands now, I can't understand what it is trying to do.
Thanks!
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@rigginssc2
Stop was nowhere near as useful as Hold Position in most situations, so it was left out. You can add it into your file somewhere for that rare occurrence where you start blowing up your own structures with Tanks (check out the file in the OP's main header, it includes stop at G). Move is incredibly valuable, especially with rapidfire. Banelings are a big beneficiary of the Move command (you move to split them to avoid wasting Banelings on anything-- also reduces overkill). Medivacs or Warp Prisms can also make good use of this as well, since right-clicking in and around units can accidentally queue up a pickup you may not want. Move essentially allows you to tell your units to move around under any circumstance, regardless of whether there are targets available or not for said units to interact with.
Moving the spells up was an optimization to take advantage of the unused key positions and unnecessary reaching that Grid is bad for. The file in the OP's header optimizes things much further without straying too far from Alloy's concept. It's still a work in progress though. The game changes with every patch and LotV is set to change even more up, so it will be an ongoing thing. I'm also strapped for time these days as well.
I highly suggest using a unit tester map or a few AI games to familiarize yourself with it. The cheat sheets try to pack a lot of info into a small package, so every binding can't be shown. I do include examples though, to give an idea from a glance.
The hand with the Q-V is a symbol that represents the modifier key (Alt in this case) that allows you to access any layered commands under the Q-V keys. I could have displayed it as Q,W,E,R,T,A,S,D,F,Z,X,C,V, but Q-V summed it up well enough (I had hoped). As for videos, I still have plans to release a few. Once things settle down, I plan on releasing some.
The OP outlines it pretty good. What it tries to do, is basically condense the hotkeys down into a small, organized package that is easy to grasp (obviously takes some amount of time to adjust to-- like anything), easy to read and execute commands in-game when learning, and offer as much as possible in terms of functionality and rapidfire shortcuts/advantages.
Everything is really up-in-the-air in regards to what the layout will be like post-LotV, so my suggestion is to check out the new layout in the OP and try it out. Once LotV is released and changes have slowed, Alloy might receive its last update, and the new layout will get all the attention. There is no cheat sheet for it atm, but feel free to check out the bindings in-game. They are fairly simple, despite the many alternate commands that were added.
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Thanks for the reply. One other quick question. I am trying this out now on my secondary account. I find it curious that you switched around the attack, move, patrol and such. Basically, all the keys on the "top row" were reordered. I am wonder what the thought behind moving them was and why they ended where did. In particular, attack on 'E' feels hard to reach. I am usually toggling 4,5 for the CC and production then hitting 1 for the main army. So when I want to attack hitting 'E' is underneath my hand whereas 'T' is visible and on my index finger. Anyway, maybe there was a poll, research, or maybe I am just putting my hand down wrong.
Oh, one other "one other" thing... Camera keys. Hitting Alt+<something> is not so fast. certainly not as easy as the original F1 at least it seems that way. I have to life my whole hand, twist it, and use two fingers (thumb for alt and then some other finger for the camera of choice) where as with the function keys I still have to lift but I can just smash with my index and middle for whatever I wanted to toggle.
Overall, I like it so far though. Having spacebar for rapid fire on the most common thing is awesome. Moving the "bottom row" up to the "middle row" makes things easy. I haven't tried the beta version, just alloy Terran/Protoss.
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@rigginssc2
The ordering of the q/w/e/r commands are set up so that you can assign 3 consecutive Attack or Patrol commands to 3 separate control groups quickly. Practice 1e2e3e for a minute in notepad or wherever and you'll see that compared to 1t2t3t the T binding tends to be more difficult. Jumping to T frequently may pull your hand around on the keyboard as well, further away from the majority of the area where most hotkeys are concentrated. You also might have massive hands and hitting T is no problem for you. As for the other commands, Hold Position is very, very useful and so is Patrol. Move is likely the least useful or used and is also a command that disables attacking (dangerous if used accidentally) so it is far from the Attack/Patrol commands. Moving into an army when you wanted to Attack-move is much worse than accidentally Patrolling into an army right?
I suggest keeping your thumb loosely resting between Spacebar and Alt whenever possible. Another way to help speed things up is to practice tapping Alt and the other keys in a way that almost looks simultaneous. It might take a bit to get used to treating the Alt commands more like one keystroke, but it feels much better than pinning the Alt key down in preparation before tapping the next key. That's when it feels like you're slowing down.
I highly recommend checking out the Arcade map called Hotkey Trainer (HotS). The 1.2 version is fine--it's the one I test with; usually with the basic and advanced structures as they require different sequences of keystrokes (more variety). Once you try out the hotkeys the first time and start getting the hang of it, reset the right/wrong/time counters, and go at a steady/accurate pace. It should be easy to reach 1.15 for a reaction time after your 2nd or 3rd attempt. When you reach 0.96-0.98, that's when it really starts clicking with you. Since the in-game/"faster" time is sped up to be 38% faster than real time, anything near a 1.0 reaction time is going to be the equivalent of under 2 thirds of a real second, which pretty good considering the fact that you are reading the random structure name, processing it, and performing 2 keystrokes.
Lastly, I encourage you to give the new "Beta" layout a try in that hotkey trainer if you plan on sticking with Alloy and want to squeeze significantly more out of it. The alternate bindings play a big role in speeding things up beyond what Alloy can do. Mouseover the command card icons in-game to check them out, and take note of the Q/D/Space alternates in structures like the Barracks and Command Center for double and triple-queueing of common/cheap units.
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i'd be interesting to have a poll on what inject method people are using with fleet keys, as i've been using camera location + queen selection for quite a while but now trying layered injects in practice. Wonder what are you guys using.
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@blackxored
Based on the low participation rate of the introductory polls, I'm not sure if we'd see much in terms of results, but it would be interesting in any case.
I prefer the Base Camera method with box select when Hatch/Queen ratio is not 1:1 and base count is relatively low (3/4 max). If the ratio is 1:1, I use Base Camera method, with Base Cam and Inject pressed simultaneously & quickly. Behaves similar to Rapidfire injects, only more reliable, albeit slower as the base number climbs. If there is ever a time where I had macro Hatches (extremely uncommon) and/or I was on a silly amount of bases, I would resort to Camera Locations (aka "Layered") for as long as needed.
I'd recommend Base Cam and Cam Locations over mouse scrolling, individual Hatches, individual Queens, or minimap injecting.
Although the individual Queens method is probably the least awful, it's still hard to recommend it when avoiding going past numbers 6,7 or 8 on your keyboard. Keyboard space is hard to come by and you'll be injecting quite a bit so I prefer the fastest and easiest to incorporate and perform reliably.
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Stop on f5 it is far by my opinion, better switch it with move.
And f7 return cargo, i use it quite much, any suggestion where bind it ?
What about rapid fire, if i want mass supply depot, it doesn't work because on s is armory and it start select it opposite spam supply depots.
I want for example spam barracks or factory, bind it on same hotkey, it probably interfere with something and if you bind it on s same.
I think i put rapid fire on p for example and bind it to mouse and same with cargo.
Thank you for awesome hotkey layout, i think this beats even core.
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Hello,
i am gracefull for, that template and i want you give feedback about hotkeys i changed, for other terran players here.
First i swoped stop (f5) with move (r).
At orbital command is scan binded to:"r,s", i removed s to accidentaly scaning multiple times.
I binded to capslock:"jump to last alert".
Return cargo i binded to my forward mousebutton with autohokey, script:"XButton2::f7", because if you take workers with minerals and order them to build, you can shift and autocargo them to return back.
To my backward mouse button escape, script:"XButton1::escape", because if you accidentaly select other building to build, escape is to far away.
I removed Middlemousebutton to MoveMinimapCamera(TargetingMode) and binded it to right click, because if i want move with camera on minimap in targeting mode i must lift my finger from right click to middle mouse button, there is no reason to do that.
I added banshee cloacking to space.
In ghost academy, i binded to space cloaking, it was on nuke.
I binded to space orbital command at cc.
In armory was upgrade vehicle weapons on e and space didn't work, despite it was in hotkey file, i binded it in game than and it worked.
In factory tech lab i binded to space pre igneter, because i play mech, you can bind drilling claws, if you play bio.
What about control groups, it is tricky, because alt.
It is still comfortable enough pressing alt and then hotkey.
I think i will use 1-5 for army.
Tab for prodution, q for all ccs and upgrades, "w,e,r" for 1-3 cc in early to mid game and then i maybe switch it to army or drops.
Thanks for layout, i am currently master eu on standart, i can't wait how much i improve on this.
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I might post the entire set of customizations sometime, as they're huge, but don't worry it's still Fleet Keys, but something that popped on my mind since I was myself asking about injects, specifically Camera Injects, it's how I got them on Shift+Z-V for cameras, maybe you want to add that as well as it doesn't cut too much into everything else.
Here's how I inject
1. Select Queen CG (Mouse button 4/ Alt + E in my setup)
2. Hold Shift (keep holding shift)
3. S (inject)
4. Press Z + click (camera jump + hatchery)
5. Continue for other cameras (X, C, V)
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Hello,
i have problem, i want banshee cloaking on space and same time ghost emp on space, it tells me conflict and even i press ignore, one space hotkey get unbinded from both.
I tried change it even in config file.
It's weird, banshee and ghost are completely other units and it doesn't conflict with each other at all.
Please help.
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@terranosaurus
This happens because the Banshee and Ghost's Cloak abilities are actually tied together. They are separate in the Data Editor. I ran into this issue when creating the default Smart Key bindings so I know the exact issue which you're referring to. I couldn't find a fix for it then (or now), but I did notice that while being seemingly separate abilities (Decloak, Load/Unload, and Burrow/Unburrow also have this issue), the game treats them as if they share the same hotkeys. Unfortunately I do not know of a fix for this.
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Thanks for info :D
Nothing is worse, than don't know why it doesn't work and rather that could work.
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Quick question, is there any version compatible with LotV? Fleet Keys (Alloy) used to be my favorite keymap by far so I'd like to use it from scratch with the new extension.
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I too would love a LotV compatible version!
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@PoP & anilusion
I was waiting until things mostly stabilized in regards to the game content itself. The game's been completely changed and Blizzard has stated that they are still willing to make more wide-scale changes so it's hard to say if it's "safe" to design/refine around something that's time-consuming to prepare for and is effectively still under development/subject to significant change.
Having said that, I suppose I could whip up something quick for the time being and do a bigger update later, it will eventually come (so much hotkey stuff on the backburner).
The next round of community feedback for LotV and potential changes should be interesting, as they have the potential to change the demands of every layout. For example, ability hotkeys will more than likely require a rework since there are so many new abilities added which are expected to be used often. Also, the changes to macro mechanics, especially in Zerg and Protoss' case, would likely warrant another critical look in that area.
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Wouldn't the current Zerg setup work fine with the new larva mechanics? Or does the ability to queue break it somehow?
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I would also really like to see a basic LOTV version; I'm kind of stuck using the HOTS one for Zerg and it would be fine if a few hotkeys are updated.
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Plz can someone tell me of this Alloy version works on LoTV?
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On November 11 2015 17:57 anilusion wrote:
Wouldn't the current Zerg setup work fine with the new larva mechanics? Or does the ability to queue break it somehow?
I have found that if you inject using camera location keys it works fine, and when you get later into the game the rapid fire inject is nice to quickly que up injects(jump to a base, select the queens around the base, shit+s and then let the rapid fire do it's thing, release shift and jump to the next base.
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Will there be a random hotkeys layout for LoTV ?
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How can i update my Element protoss to work with the new "remove and create" hotkeys?
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The release of LotV is quite far behind us now, and this thread is now finally locked.
General interest in this project has seemed to bottom-out a this point. My own willingness to invest more time in this has also dropped significantly despite stating that I had plans for additional content post-LotV. If there were to be an update or new content created for the Fleet Keys layouts, it would be a new, simple thread with a LotV-exclusive, random-race file I haven't posted here yet.
A LotV multiplayer version of the aforementioned file (in QWERTY) would be the only release I would be willing to produce/post in said thread on my own at this time. If others felt like converting the files for versions they wanted to see, that would be great. I have never used any sort of script for this this project when it came to generating different keyboard versions/gameplay modes, so manual editing without inaccuracies for every patch is incredibly time-consuming and hard to justify these days.
So with that, I'd like to say thanks to anyone who helped out in the past with this project, and also thanks to anyone who found use or success in utilizing any of these layout files.
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Anything I can help with?
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is it still relevant for lotv?
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Yes, the hotkey layout and principles remain the same. You just need to decide what you are going to do with add/steal and create/steal.
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Hi, don't know if this threads stil active, but I'm new to SC2 & was wondering if there's a random version of Fleet keys alloy to download, or is it gonna be very easy to learn to use for all races if I just downloaded all 3 races key layouts? Thanks.
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Hi, I don't know if Fleet Keys is still being actively developed (or even suitable for LotV), but if you are looking for a hotkey system that is easy to learn while still being very efficient and natural, I can only suggest trying TheCore Lite. It allows you to keep your hands on the left side of the keyboard as well and allows for lots of customisation. On top of that, it is eligible for all three races at the same time!
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This isn't being worked on as far as I am aware, though you can easily implement the changes yourself. All the layouts works for all the races, but they are just more optimal for certain races, so no need to download them all. The Protoss/Terran layout will probably be the best for you since that will be 2/3 of the games that you play if you decide to play random.
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Oh ok thanks guys, I'll download the 3 versions of alloy & see how i get on with them, if they don't seem very compatible now (too many unbound keys etc.) I'll download TheCore Lite Lite & give that a try.
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Unfortunately Fleet Keys has loads of unbound keys for all 3 races, so I'll try out TheCore Lite or stick to grid setup, I wish Fleet Keys could be updated because it seems like a great idea.
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@SpykerBlade: it's possible to do the Fleet hotkeys rebinding yourself. You have to open the hotkey GUI and check all command card for Multiplayer, the key assignment rule is kind of straight forward (grid with bottom row pushed to middle row or so). If you consider to get clean for Coop and campaigns it's a definitely more painful, and there are some bindkeys that do not appear in the GUI…
The Element hotkeys are built over Grid and should be ready to reuse. If you clean up the Control Group bindings, it should be good enough and clean by default for all modes
of course feel free to give TheCore Lite a try
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Good day all!
I registered here specifically to be able to post on this thread, to say thank you to the makers of this hotkey system.
For years i never really got into playing versus mode, i was always put off quickly by the way the hotkeys worked. So i only played arcade games for years in sc2. I used to play broodwar versus a bit back when it came out, but never to any decent level. (i guess something around lower silver league when compared to sc2) The only hotkeys i ever used was control group 1,2 and A for attack.
One and a half months ago i decided i wanted to get into versus, so i immediately searched for a hotkey system, as i couldn't be bothered grinding the standard setup til it would become workable, due to it being completely unintuitive and all over the place. Most of them looked quite strange to me, (core systems + standard) until i found out about grid.
There was still a few weird things about it, that made using grid unplayable for me, so i tried it only very shortly and and had to give up, because it seemed like a bad idea to practice something that just didn't feel right (the unit buttons mostly, spells + commands). Then i found fleetkeys and i have to say, i've loved it from the start.
My APM went up from about 40 (i know) to 90, after 1 and a half months of using it and playing 1v1, i'm at 100-120 (with good efficiency, no inflating) with protoss and sine then I've made it into Diamond 3 league.
To me not having to be all over the keyboard and using something logical was extremely important, since i don'T have the time to play too much and fleetkeys worked perfectly for that. It's extremely intuitive, which shows especially if you've never gotten too used to any other hotkey system before trying fleekteys. I even have reasonable micro skills, the smart key on "space" is simply a brilliant idea for beginners, among many other things
I did make some very minor changes, (i have an additional key next to the shift key that i use for "return cargo" and i have the subgroup selection button on the mouse side buttons, as suggested earlier in this thread.
To all those that are afraid of having to make adjustments in the "hotkey" settings, i can tell you it's easier and faster than you might think. I use a QWERTZ keyboard, so changing that was the first step-->super fast.
I then went on to change the things that are new for LOTV, which also didn'T take long at all. I send the the adjusted files to anyone interested, also quickly adapted to a QWERY keyboard.
I have since also adjusted the hotkeys for co-op as well, it works perfectly.
@bobo: for artanis and vorazun (and i think the other toss heros as well) you can rebind all hotkeys to match the system, they now seem to all appear in the hotkey options. (but you have to have played a co-op game prior or access them from ingame to make them appear (nerazim, taldarim etc.)
I've used only Protoss with Fleetkeys Alloy so far, but i could adjust it to terran or zerg as well without problems, or show you how that works.
I'm really surprised this isn't more popular yet, i guess it's due to most people (understandably) not wanting to relearn their system, but it can be fantastic for people who are new to versus mode and looking for something intuitive, logical and efficient.
So again, many thanks to the creators and contributors, this put the fun in versus playing for me.
Best regards,
Avion
PS: Those charts are awesome and made learning the system from scratch extremely smooth.
PPS: To learn the key combinations i used a building trainer on the arcade, there's one that accepts the fleetkey's settings for buildings (not for units) but you can still train the building shortcuts (space-Q for nexus, S-E for robo etc.) and get fast very quickly, if you need a bit of confidence before going into 1v1, like i did.
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About popularity:
Most guys use Standard, some browse settings and find Grid to get all command in one place. Enthusiasts who read the web about SC2 community stuff will sooner or later read about other SC2 hotkeys approach
The prominent one those days is TheCore (the oldest project out) with the most sophistication and used at GM level by some guys. TheCore guys made a brilliant work and JaKaTaK worked hard to communicate with web presence and videos. Those enthusiasts will or won't use it
Curious enthusiasts will probably dig deeper and finally find Fleet Keys. There are unbounds, it's not working out of the box, only tenacious curious enthusiasts will move on, try and fix it. Congrats Avion1 !!
My remembering when I discovered Fleet keys and other hotkeys systems (my life you can skip)
+ Show Spoiler +3 years back while I was looking for a hotkeys system those Fleet keys were super well explained and making much sense, but it was already low speed project with no updates and low activity on this thread, I do remember that I was confused by the fact that there are 2 versions (T&P and Z). The write-up of the Original Post was good with the layer over grid "Element", and some fancy adjustment to unlock alternate and change row placement between grid and ideal "Alloy": it was of great help for me to get into SC2 hotkeys world
During the same period TheCore was feeling trendy but super overwhelming with big step to jump in, I was not understanding the former "race-side-size" flavor especially the "race" one. TheCore Lite was to me attractive because of group camera layout that looked a bit more optimized than fleet, and the sum of information wasn't too overwhelming: it was one single .SC2Hotkeys file for all races. It was about to become a low speed project I picked it up and made all updates to fight against unbounds for LoTV campaign and at each commander release, and adopt missing features from TheCore (and those I removed in a 1st place because I hadn't understood :D )
More practical popularity aspects for a .SC2Hotkeys project
Hotkey system traction comes from many aspects:
– availability of "not too outdated" .SC2Hotkeys
– visibility on the Web => TL post, but more important reddit, and also standard Search Engine search
– keep thing as simple as possible not to confuse users => here Fleet keys is OK, maybe a one-size-fits-all-races version could help, Element section is really instructive about the history of the project
– think about long-term maintenance easiness, because dev time is precious and dev team could vanish, the pain of maintenance should be reduced as much as possible to maximize smooth lifetime, so that the few (single?) guys on board don't give up and can keep up comfortably
– ideally github (or similar) infrastructure to revision control changes and track bugs
If someone wants to revive this project, TheCore Lite python script infrastructure could be reused forking from GitHub. It was forked from TheCore 3, and any .SC2Hotkeys project could benefit from keyboard layout conversion as well as automated checks for campaign and part of the coop commanders. GitHub (or similar) is also great as a release platform as well as bug tracker, I got some pull request last months and was so happy
Do not hesitate to fork or contact me for help (English|Deutsch|Français)
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Thanks for your post bobo38, very informative and interesting. I myself only found out about fleetkeys, because someone posted a message mentioning it on a thread on reddit.
While i am certain theCore and is a powerful setup, i, like a lot of people i have talked to in the meantime find it overwhelming, if you know you don't have the time to put in to learn it. For newer players there is just a beauty in the simplicity that the grid logic uses. And fleetkeys "on paper" looks more powerful/sophisticated to me than thecorelite, it seems more consistent (the way the ALT key is used and how you access groups etc)
The way i feel about it (correct me if i am wrong) is that the advantage of the fleetkeys system lies in the fact, that you can learn it step by step and still have it work, whereas with thecore systems you need to reach a reasonable level before it actually becomes usable.
For me it went a bit like this, sequence wise:
-learn the probe build commands for a bit, if you're unsure, you just look at the command card, it is a grid system after all, so you never need to "search" for a hotkey there, which is much less frustrating
-learn E-move instead of A-move.
-get used to having your hand rest comfortably and avoiding the awkward hand movements i used to do
-use the select all army key (terrible habit, i am now trying to get rid of overusing it :D :D
-rapid fire
-smart key
-camera locations
-proper control group setup
What i am now still a bit uncertain about, is how to use the control groups and camera locations and i'd appreciate any advice on that.
I found that using the first three camera locations works great when you use A for the main, S for the natural and D for the third base.
Then i used YXC for the same at the opponents base, though i am not so sure about that being a great idea. Would it be smarter to use all camera locations for your own bases and maybe just one for the opponent's side?
How do you set up the control groups for protoss units? So far i used 1 for the main army, 2 for flyers, 3 for casters, 4 for the prism and 5 for any observer/scout units, though all that i'm still struggling with in the heat of battle :D
I was thinking of switching main army to 2, while keeping flyers on 1, , 2E becomes your main army attack move.
Another thing i am unsure about is the use of the home key. (base camera) I basically never use it and don't quite understand it'S purpose, i'd be happy if someone could shed light on that. So far i use camera location for the bases, including the main, which seems much more consistent than base key hopping with caps lock. Could CAPS LOCK be used for something better maybe?
I am pretty sure what's walling me off in dia 3 at the moment is mechanics, so it's time to start getting those right, the hotkey system is there after all :D
About reviving the project, i would certainly be up for that, if the devs can be asked for permission prior of course. It's a pity that using the system (or any other customized) seems so discouraging when you need to adapt and change the layout before it works properly/when switching to co-op. Currently i use one layout for co-op and one for normal sc2, because if you don't switch back and forth, your normal setup gets screwed somewhat from playing/adjusting the keys in co-op.
It's not a great effort to switch the two, but annoying nonetheless.
What i would be interested in, could you give me a rough overview of where theCore/corelite system differs from fleetkeys in what it can do/how it's done? Does it offer features that fleetkeys doesn't have? Is there aspects of it that make it more convenient in certain areas than the fleetkeys system? You do mention camera locations being more conveniently accessilbe, would you still say that's a big advantage over fleetkeys?
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About reviving the project, i would certainly be up for that, if the devs can be asked for permission prior of course. It's a pity that using the system (or any other customized) seems so discouraging when you need to adapt and change the layout before it works properly/when switching to co-op. Currently i use one layout for co-op and one for normal sc2, because if you don't switch back and forth, your normal setup gets screwed somewhat from playing/adjusting the keys in co-op.
Nice, not sure whether the authors are still contactable, last post of the author is there
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=25625481
You can try to contact him by PM (in those circumstances one realize that open source free software license, or simple WTF license would make it clear anybody could reuse and fork the stuff)
Main differences with TheCore Lite (that could be picked up or not):
– group approach, group could be optimized for better UI integration: https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/blob/master/README.md#thecore-lite-groupcameras-modifiers => this one I missed and removed in a 1st place before somebody explained me
– camera modifiers => same, shift to jump to cam allow precise queueing to jump to predefined location, if feel something could be done here to optimize the setup of drops
– the group steal mechanism appeared with LoTV, you may want to integrate that in a refreshed version of Fleet keys
– there are basically 2 columns of fingers for groups and the forefinger mainly reach D ande E (C-R-F also have the next useful commands) and thumb Space reuses this SmartCommand feature => you cannot to much here without breaking the concept
– there is some optimization around a 2 macro group approach that was advertised by TheCore project https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/blob/master/README.md#thecore-lite-macro-groups => could be a good approach to refit the stuff without breaking compatibility to separated barracks-factory-starport that also has some supporters
– More RapidFire keys: you can setup more that 2 RapidFire keys from text editor, this one fact is abused in both TheCore and TheCore Lite to get RapidFire warp-in for each units
Downloading the files, I found different files for Multiplayer and Campaign, not sure whether it's necessary. Is the key design aspect (keep command card position) preventing that? How does it look like with Coop? There are some "headache-commanders" like Dehaka or Stukov to look into, and not sure about the campaign too
Base cycle cam
The "base cycle camera key" yep. This is the main difference between Z and TP versions of Fleet keys, I expect it coming from the centric place of the Backspace inject method some years back (it was my first hotkey customization :D on standard when I was trying Zerg)
Nowadays hotkeys setup tends to better advertised "base centered camera" with boxing for inject, typical F1 F2 F3 F4 for grid, 5 cams for TheCore Lite, 6 cams for TheCore. From this perspective, Fleet keys camera setup is a good start, and you could get a one-size-fits-all-races hotkeys setup
The "base cycle camera key" has been pushed out in TheCore. It has been a long time I haven't used it, it may be useful to inspect saturation of bases as an example. I'm currently trying some situational alternate to gather all queens and add to a group holding the Add+Steal modifier: a creating niche hotkey stuff to optimize a super niche usage like mass queens for one race (my main race)
EDIT: Group and Cam usage
I think those are personal, and you can only give recommendations. I'm used to 2 macro groups and 2 army groups. I have 1 key reserved for dropship (not that convenient for Z). For the cameras I use 1 for rally point and 4 bases for T and P (5 bases for Z), there are 3 less convenient cams that could be used in a more creative way. My plans are to add more control groups, and get some movement freedom to play around the 3 remaining cams (they have a control alternate, in need to optimize the baneling dropship setup it could be an good angle)
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bobo38#9239 is my Discord ID if you want to chat
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