EPT[G] Fleet Keys - Refined Hotkey Systems - Page 24
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SzzuAlternative
1 Post
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xProMarcel
Poland1 Post
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eneyeseekay
239 Posts
General interest in this project has seemed to bottom-out a this point. My own willingness to invest more time in this has also dropped significantly despite stating that I had plans for additional content post-LotV. If there were to be an update or new content created for the Fleet Keys layouts, it would be a new, simple thread with a LotV-exclusive, random-race file I haven't posted here yet. A LotV multiplayer version of the aforementioned file (in QWERTY) would be the only release I would be willing to produce/post in said thread on my own at this time. If others felt like converting the files for versions they wanted to see, that would be great. I have never used any sort of script for this this project when it came to generating different keyboard versions/gameplay modes, so manual editing without inaccuracies for every patch is incredibly time-consuming and hard to justify these days. So with that, I'd like to say thanks to anyone who helped out in the past with this project, and also thanks to anyone who found use or success in utilizing any of these layout files. | ||
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blackxored
25 Posts
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Lakoria
8 Posts
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
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SpykerBlade
3 Posts
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Kerdinand
Germany113 Posts
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
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SpykerBlade
3 Posts
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SpykerBlade
3 Posts
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bobo38
France220 Posts
The Element hotkeys are built over Grid and should be ready to reuse. If you clean up the Control Group bindings, it should be good enough and clean by default for all modes of course feel free to give TheCore Lite a try | ||
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Avion1
2 Posts
I registered here specifically to be able to post on this thread, to say thank you to the makers of this hotkey system. For years i never really got into playing versus mode, i was always put off quickly by the way the hotkeys worked. So i only played arcade games for years in sc2. I used to play broodwar versus a bit back when it came out, but never to any decent level. (i guess something around lower silver league when compared to sc2) The only hotkeys i ever used was control group 1,2 and A for attack. One and a half months ago i decided i wanted to get into versus, so i immediately searched for a hotkey system, as i couldn't be bothered grinding the standard setup til it would become workable, due to it being completely unintuitive and all over the place. Most of them looked quite strange to me, (core systems + standard) until i found out about grid. There was still a few weird things about it, that made using grid unplayable for me, so i tried it only very shortly and and had to give up, because it seemed like a bad idea to practice something that just didn't feel right (the unit buttons mostly, spells + commands). Then i found fleetkeys and i have to say, i've loved it from the start. My APM went up from about 40 (i know) to 90, after 1 and a half months of using it and playing 1v1, i'm at 100-120 (with good efficiency, no inflating) with protoss and sine then I've made it into Diamond 3 league. To me not having to be all over the keyboard and using something logical was extremely important, since i don'T have the time to play too much and fleetkeys worked perfectly for that. It's extremely intuitive, which shows especially if you've never gotten too used to any other hotkey system before trying fleekteys. I even have reasonable micro skills, the smart key on "space" is simply a brilliant idea for beginners, among many other things I did make some very minor changes, (i have an additional key next to the shift key that i use for "return cargo" and i have the subgroup selection button on the mouse side buttons, as suggested earlier in this thread. To all those that are afraid of having to make adjustments in the "hotkey" settings, i can tell you it's easier and faster than you might think. I use a QWERTZ keyboard, so changing that was the first step-->super fast. I then went on to change the things that are new for LOTV, which also didn'T take long at all. I send the the adjusted files to anyone interested, also quickly adapted to a QWERY keyboard. I have since also adjusted the hotkeys for co-op as well, it works perfectly. @bobo: for artanis and vorazun (and i think the other toss heros as well) you can rebind all hotkeys to match the system, they now seem to all appear in the hotkey options. (but you have to have played a co-op game prior or access them from ingame to make them appear (nerazim, taldarim etc.) I've used only Protoss with Fleetkeys Alloy so far, but i could adjust it to terran or zerg as well without problems, or show you how that works. I'm really surprised this isn't more popular yet, i guess it's due to most people (understandably) not wanting to relearn their system, but it can be fantastic for people who are new to versus mode and looking for something intuitive, logical and efficient. So again, many thanks to the creators and contributors, this put the fun in versus playing for me. Best regards, Avion PS: Those charts are awesome and made learning the system from scratch extremely smooth. PPS: To learn the key combinations i used a building trainer on the arcade, there's one that accepts the fleetkey's settings for buildings (not for units) but you can still train the building shortcuts (space-Q for nexus, S-E for robo etc.) and get fast very quickly, if you need a bit of confidence before going into 1v1, like i did. | ||
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bobo38
France220 Posts
Most guys use Standard, some browse settings and find Grid to get all command in one place. Enthusiasts who read the web about SC2 community stuff will sooner or later read about other SC2 hotkeys approach The prominent one those days is TheCore (the oldest project out) with the most sophistication and used at GM level by some guys. TheCore guys made a brilliant work and JaKaTaK worked hard to communicate with web presence and videos. Those enthusiasts will or won't use it Curious enthusiasts will probably dig deeper and finally find Fleet Keys. There are unbounds, it's not working out of the box, only tenacious curious enthusiasts will move on, try and fix it. Congrats Avion1 !! My remembering when I discovered Fleet keys and other hotkeys systems (my life you can skip) + Show Spoiler + 3 years back while I was looking for a hotkeys system those Fleet keys were super well explained and making much sense, but it was already low speed project with no updates and low activity on this thread, I do remember that I was confused by the fact that there are 2 versions (T&P and Z). The write-up of the Original Post was good with the layer over grid "Element", and some fancy adjustment to unlock alternate and change row placement between grid and ideal "Alloy": it was of great help for me to get into SC2 hotkeys world During the same period TheCore was feeling trendy but super overwhelming with big step to jump in, I was not understanding the former "race-side-size" flavor especially the "race" one. TheCore Lite was to me attractive because of group camera layout that looked a bit more optimized than fleet, and the sum of information wasn't too overwhelming: it was one single .SC2Hotkeys file for all races. It was about to become a low speed project I picked it up and made all updates to fight against unbounds for LoTV campaign and at each commander release, and adopt missing features from TheCore (and those I removed in a 1st place because I hadn't understood :D ) More practical popularity aspects for a .SC2Hotkeys project Hotkey system traction comes from many aspects: – availability of "not too outdated" .SC2Hotkeys – visibility on the Web => TL post, but more important reddit, and also standard Search Engine search – keep thing as simple as possible not to confuse users => here Fleet keys is OK, maybe a one-size-fits-all-races version could help, Element section is really instructive about the history of the project – think about long-term maintenance easiness, because dev time is precious and dev team could vanish, the pain of maintenance should be reduced as much as possible to maximize smooth lifetime, so that the few (single?) guys on board don't give up and can keep up comfortably – ideally github (or similar) infrastructure to revision control changes and track bugs If someone wants to revive this project, TheCore Lite python script infrastructure could be reused forking from GitHub. It was forked from TheCore 3, and any .SC2Hotkeys project could benefit from keyboard layout conversion as well as automated checks for campaign and part of the coop commanders. GitHub (or similar) is also great as a release platform as well as bug tracker, I got some pull request last months and was so happy Do not hesitate to fork or contact me for help (English|Deutsch|Français) | ||
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Avion1
2 Posts
While i am certain theCore and is a powerful setup, i, like a lot of people i have talked to in the meantime find it overwhelming, if you know you don't have the time to put in to learn it. For newer players there is just a beauty in the simplicity that the grid logic uses. And fleetkeys "on paper" looks more powerful/sophisticated to me than thecorelite, it seems more consistent (the way the ALT key is used and how you access groups etc) The way i feel about it (correct me if i am wrong) is that the advantage of the fleetkeys system lies in the fact, that you can learn it step by step and still have it work, whereas with thecore systems you need to reach a reasonable level before it actually becomes usable. For me it went a bit like this, sequence wise: -learn the probe build commands for a bit, if you're unsure, you just look at the command card, it is a grid system after all, so you never need to "search" for a hotkey there, which is much less frustrating -learn E-move instead of A-move. -get used to having your hand rest comfortably and avoiding the awkward hand movements i used to do -use the select all army key (terrible habit, i am now trying to get rid of overusing it :D :D -rapid fire -smart key -camera locations -proper control group setup What i am now still a bit uncertain about, is how to use the control groups and camera locations and i'd appreciate any advice on that. I found that using the first three camera locations works great when you use A for the main, S for the natural and D for the third base. Then i used YXC for the same at the opponents base, though i am not so sure about that being a great idea. Would it be smarter to use all camera locations for your own bases and maybe just one for the opponent's side? How do you set up the control groups for protoss units? So far i used 1 for the main army, 2 for flyers, 3 for casters, 4 for the prism and 5 for any observer/scout units, though all that i'm still struggling with in the heat of battle :D I was thinking of switching main army to 2, while keeping flyers on 1, , 2E becomes your main army attack move. Another thing i am unsure about is the use of the home key. (base camera) I basically never use it and don't quite understand it'S purpose, i'd be happy if someone could shed light on that. So far i use camera location for the bases, including the main, which seems much more consistent than base key hopping with caps lock. Could CAPS LOCK be used for something better maybe? I am pretty sure what's walling me off in dia 3 at the moment is mechanics, so it's time to start getting those right, the hotkey system is there after all :D About reviving the project, i would certainly be up for that, if the devs can be asked for permission prior of course. It's a pity that using the system (or any other customized) seems so discouraging when you need to adapt and change the layout before it works properly/when switching to co-op. Currently i use one layout for co-op and one for normal sc2, because if you don't switch back and forth, your normal setup gets screwed somewhat from playing/adjusting the keys in co-op. It's not a great effort to switch the two, but annoying nonetheless. What i would be interested in, could you give me a rough overview of where theCore/corelite system differs from fleetkeys in what it can do/how it's done? Does it offer features that fleetkeys doesn't have? Is there aspects of it that make it more convenient in certain areas than the fleetkeys system? You do mention camera locations being more conveniently accessilbe, would you still say that's a big advantage over fleetkeys? | ||
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bobo38
France220 Posts
About reviving the project, i would certainly be up for that, if the devs can be asked for permission prior of course. It's a pity that using the system (or any other customized) seems so discouraging when you need to adapt and change the layout before it works properly/when switching to co-op. Currently i use one layout for co-op and one for normal sc2, because if you don't switch back and forth, your normal setup gets screwed somewhat from playing/adjusting the keys in co-op. Nice, not sure whether the authors are still contactable, last post of the author is there http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=25625481 You can try to contact him by PM (in those circumstances one realize that open source free software license, or simple WTF license would make it clear anybody could reuse and fork the stuff) Main differences with TheCore Lite (that could be picked up or not): – group approach, group could be optimized for better UI integration: https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/blob/master/README.md#thecore-lite-groupcameras-modifiers => this one I missed and removed in a 1st place before somebody explained me  – camera modifiers => same, shift to jump to cam allow precise queueing to jump to predefined location, if feel something could be done here to optimize the setup of drops – the group steal mechanism appeared with LoTV, you may want to integrate that in a refreshed version of Fleet keys – there are basically 2 columns of fingers for groups and the forefinger mainly reach D ande E (C-R-F also have the next useful commands) and thumb Space reuses this SmartCommand feature => you cannot to much here without breaking the concept – there is some optimization around a 2 macro group approach that was advertised by TheCore project https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/blob/master/README.md#thecore-lite-macro-groups => could be a good approach to refit the stuff without breaking compatibility to separated barracks-factory-starport that also has some supporters – More RapidFire keys: you can setup more that 2 RapidFire keys from text editor, this one fact is abused in both TheCore and TheCore Lite to get RapidFire warp-in for each units Downloading the files, I found different files for Multiplayer and Campaign, not sure whether it's necessary. Is the key design aspect (keep command card position) preventing that? How does it look like with Coop? There are some "headache-commanders" like Dehaka or Stukov to look into, and not sure about the campaign too Base cycle cam The "base cycle camera key" yep. This is the main difference between Z and TP versions of Fleet keys, I expect it coming from the centric place of the Backspace inject method some years back (it was my first hotkey customization :D on standard when I was trying Zerg) Nowadays hotkeys setup tends to better advertised "base centered camera" with boxing for inject, typical F1 F2 F3 F4 for grid, 5 cams for TheCore Lite, 6 cams for TheCore. From this perspective, Fleet keys camera setup is a good start, and you could get a one-size-fits-all-races hotkeys setup The "base cycle camera key" has been pushed out in TheCore. It has been a long time I haven't used it, it may be useful to inspect saturation of bases as an example. I'm currently trying some situational alternate to gather all queens and add to a group holding the Add+Steal modifier: a creating niche hotkey stuff to optimize a super niche usage like mass queens for one race (my main race) EDIT: Group and Cam usage I think those are personal, and you can only give recommendations. I'm used to 2 macro groups and 2 army groups. I have 1 key reserved for dropship (not that convenient for Z). For the cameras I use 1 for rally point and 4 bases for T and P (5 bases for Z), there are 3 less convenient cams that could be used in a more creative way. My plans are to add more control groups, and get some movement freedom to play around the 3 remaining cams (they have a control alternate, in need to optimize the baneling dropship setup it could be an good angle) | ||
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bobo38
France220 Posts
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