EPTLooks like widow mines have some complexity and tactical depth to them, and that bodes well for HOTS.
Math on Widow Mines -- How STLife Dodged the Shots - Page 5
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
Looks like widow mines have some complexity and tactical depth to them, and that bodes well for HOTS. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Mutineer
New Zealand179 Posts
Even after activation, Mine does not allway hit. Max range of Mine is 5. So, if speedling mine activated leave this range after it activated, mine will explode at range 5 doing only splash damage. That may not effect speedling too mach, but for bigger units it can greatly reduce damage mine is dealing. There are other micro ways to reduce damage - Blink same effect. Unit lieve mine radius, mine explode at place stalker was befor blink. Burrow - mine explode on place doing only splash damage only to primary unit. Go invisible - same effect, mine explode in place units last time was seen. Same rules apply to seeker missiles, which have mach longer time to fly range 13 to target, giving a lot of time to avoide dammage even after seeker missile activated. The only difference I belieev that seeker missile will pass range 13 after activation, so this method does not work for seeker missile. | ||
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
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DonFonzy
United States34 Posts
On March 20 2013 05:27 Shinespark wrote: I'm pretty sure Life didn't realize any of this consciously... I am sure he didn't come up with the math. But looking at the games, and how he chose to move through areas he knew had mines, it certainly looked like he had grasped the concept to some point and used it to his advantage. There was several time where he was very careful even prearranged his forces before advancing. Not that luck had nothing to do with it. I am sure that it did. But now this is common knowledge and I am sure he and other pros will be able to capitalize on it. | ||
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Lone
7 Posts
On March 20 2013 05:27 Shinespark wrote: I'm pretty sure Life didn't realize any of this consciously... No, probably not in a mathematical sense. But he probably realized conceptually that you could get past mine fields without activating them by move-commanding... Whether or not he specifically realized how to do so we wont know until we have replays, etc. Still, the idea bodes well for SCII. More tactical depth is never a bad thing. Already I've seen some awesome positioning/leading suggestions. Another important point to note is that you can see a slight indentation in the ground where mines are located, even if you don't have detection... | ||
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CenturionSC2
United States51 Posts
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nottapro
202 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + GAME ONE http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/events/23-2013-winter-championship#2424/2432/1;100107 GAME TWO http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/events/23-2013-winter-championship#2424/2432/1;100100 GAME THREE http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/events/23-2013-winter-championship#2424/2432/1;100101 GAME FOUR http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/events/23-2013-winter-championship#2424/2432/1;100102 GAME FIVE http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/events/23-2013-winter-championship#2424/2432/1;100103 GAME SIX http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/events/23-2013-winter-championship#2424/2432/1;100105 In my opinion, you could tell when life knew about a mine because he sent 1 zergling at a time. But other times he just ran everything over 3-4 of them, and only 1 went off. | ||
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Hylirion
Netherlands968 Posts
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mvdunecats
United States102 Posts
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
 Good job man, love the post, helps me understand the unit a LOT more. | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
On March 20 2013 05:32 Lone wrote: No, probably not in a mathematical sense. But he probably realized conceptually that you could get past mine fields without activating them by move-commanding... Whether or not he specifically realized how to do so we wont know until we have replays, etc. Still, the idea bodes well for SCII. More tactical depth is never a bad thing. Already I've seen some awesome positioning/leading suggestions. Another important point to note is that you can see a slight indentation in the ground where mines are located, even if you don't have detection... I have to agree with Lone here. Life plays this game WAY too much to be simply ignorant of something that very well could have won him games more than a few times. Widow Mines do MASSIVE damage when used right, but Life had an amazing way fo microing past them. Can't be pure coincidence with someone as good as Life, I don't believe. | ||
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Mitosis.
Sweden16 Posts
On March 20 2013 04:47 Jawcub wrote: Also a simple terran solution to this would be to always keep the mines in pairs, one right behind the first one so that the lings reach the other mines radius when leving the first one. Instead of keeping the mines side to side. It depends on the situation I would say. Mines placed in-line, behind each other, provides a corridor where units passing through will trigger each mine in succession. In other words, if your opponent blindly runs through a choke in the middle, he will activate all the mines and take a lot of damage. However, there is quite a lot of room to the sides of the mines where you can easily avoid taking any damage at all if you know what you are doing. On the other hand, if you place the mines side by side it will be virtually impossible to pass through the choke unscathed. But it is likely that units travelling in a narrow column will only trigger one of the two mines, meaning that the potential damage is lower. As the number of mines grow, a combination is probably the best. That is, stagger the mines in a triangular pattern (or square, or whatever polygon you prefere  ) in order to ensure that no unit can pass through without getting hit by several mines.Quick illustration of the mine-pair case: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NZzrLKy.jpg) | ||
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GeNi
United States49 Posts
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
When you watch most Zergs play (stream) you can see that they try to clear mines as they move out with their army. IdrA in particular will order his mutas to destroy the mines. Again though, it comes down to whether or not Terrans give you the space to move past the mines. If Terrans start purposefully halting portions of their armies in front of the mines, then Zergs are going to be fighting one hell of a bad battle. | ||
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nottapro
202 Posts
On March 20 2013 05:56 Nuclease wrote: I have to agree with Lone here. Life plays this game WAY too much to be simply ignorant of something that very well could have won him games more than a few times. Widow Mines do MASSIVE damage when used right, but Life had an amazing way fo microing past them. Can't be pure coincidence with someone as good as Life, I don't believe. Life probably knew he should send at least 1 ling ahead of the pack to get it to prefire on the least valauble target, but as an unintended consequence, his 1 speedling prevented it from firing at all, because it travelled between mid and outer ring of its range, preventing the AI from firing against it or the next subsequent group of speedlings. | ||
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iiGreetings
Canada563 Posts
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VelRa_G
Canada304 Posts
On March 20 2013 06:05 Mitosis. wrote: It depends on the situation I would say. Mines placed in-line, behind each other, provides a corridor where units passing through will trigger each mine in succession. In other words, if your opponent blindly runs through a choke in the middle, he will activate all the mines and take a lot of damage. However, there is quite a lot of room to the sides of the mines where you can easily avoid taking any damage at all if you know what you are doing. On the other hand, if you place the mines side by side it will be virtually impossible to pass through the choke unscathed. But it is likely that units travelling in a narrow column will only trigger one of the two mines, meaning that the potential damage is lower. As the number of mines grow, a combination is probably the best. That is, stagger the mines in a triangular pattern (or square, or whatever polygon you prefere ) in order to ensure that no unit can pass through without getting hit by several mines.Quick illustration of the mine-pair case: This is an anti-widow mine thread and you're not helping! In all seriousness, great post here. You can eliminate the effective radius by stacking them at the correct ranges. Very nice! | ||
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porkRaven
United States953 Posts
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SorrowShine
698 Posts
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