EPTI had a similar feelings without being able to explaining it, thanks to you i know.
Wonder if top players, other than life, will start using this information in their gameplay.
Math on Widow Mines -- How STLife Dodged the Shots - Page 2
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W0L0L0
France23 Posts
I had a similar feelings without being able to explaining it, thanks to you i know. Wonder if top players, other than life, will start using this information in their gameplay. | ||
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skyafterrain
Thailand22 Posts
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xaeravoq
50 Posts
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StagaDish
United States9 Posts
On March 20 2013 01:02 skyafterrain wrote: Hope Blizzard will change the mine mechanics soon, I would suggest the mine will always shoot the locked target although it runs out of radius. Why won't we suggest blizzard that hellbats should fly while we're at it? | ||
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TiTanIum_
Brazil1335 Posts
On March 20 2013 01:12 StagaDish wrote: Why won't we suggest blizzard that hellbats should fly while we're at it? Both suggestions are bad, but something must be done taking these calculations. Mines were designed to stop zerglings, and making it so easy to disable them should not be possible. But then again, terrans will figure out way to stop what zergs are doing, either through positioning, composition or micro, and that's why this game is so beautiful. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8323 Posts
On March 20 2013 00:51 StagaDish wrote: Lone, we might have to call you "The DeWidower" from now on...  Widow Un-maker. Edit: Also fuck me this is awesome. I love that people have to learn speed - widow mine range benchmarks to reach a higher level of play. It was shitty as a Flash fan to see, but I'm glad somebody has been able to figure out so precisely what happened. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13425 Posts
On March 20 2013 01:22 TiTanIum_ wrote: Both suggestions are bad, but something must be done taking these calculations. Mines were designed to stop zerglings, and making it so easy to disable them should not be possible. But then again, terrans will figure out way to stop what zergs are doing, either through positioning, composition or micro, and that's why this game is so beautiful. Maybe drilling claws should make the mines acquire targets just a bit quicker to avoid this issue? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
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StagaDish
United States9 Posts
On March 20 2013 01:22 TiTanIum_ wrote: Both suggestions are bad, but something must be done taking these calculations. Mines were designed to stop zerglings, and making it so easy to disable them should not be possible. But then again, terrans will figure out way to stop what zergs are doing, either through positioning, composition or micro, and that's why this game is so beautiful. I was being cynical. The widow-mine is a very strong and almost imba unit (almost, because now it seem like we got a semi-solution that, as always, requires extreme skills out of zergs players). If anything, this unit should be nerffed, not buffed. HotS is no longer a game of a-move. Stop looking for self-microing units. | ||
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Afterhours
United States125 Posts
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People_0f_Color
177 Posts
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nottapro
202 Posts
On March 20 2013 00:09 Ahli wrote: I made an Example image with Speedlings on creep not activating mine. The ling in the south enters the range first, but leaves it. This allows the rest of the speedlings to directly travel over the mine. I hope they fix the widow mine so its not so easily countered by speedlings. | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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moQbara
Romania76 Posts
SC2 shape theory - it explains how I came up with the picture below. Skip if you don't care about it  .+ Show Spoiler + As I understand it, the model behind starcraft 2 has a square based hex grid (i.e.: what we see when building new stuff). That is what the game engine uses for distance calculations (1 such square is 1 unit of distance). Because of this, a radius of 5 will not actually be a circle with a diameter of 10 units. It will actually be a square-cornered shape, defined by the grid units which are covered by an imaginary circle of radius 5+ half of the size of the modeled unit generating it. A widow mine (I think) covers a single grid unit, so it will be a circle of 5+0.5 grid units. I assume the "rules" are just like with everything else - round up to nearest integers. Therefore, every cell covered more than 50% will be part of the "radius". Here's an approximation of what I tried to explain: http://i.imgur.com/CdgfsjV.png Theoretically, being a "circle" a unit should pass it just as fast in any direction. However, given the actual shape and the addition of the unit hex, we can calculate that for a unit with a speed of 1 it will take: - 11 seconds to clear the mine field, assuming it moves on the E6-O6 path (11 hexes total) - ~9.9 seconds, assuming it moves on the F2 -> N10 path (~9.89 hexes total) Your original formula assumes the unit path through the "minefield" is a chord in a 5-radius circle. However: - the circle has a radius of 5.5 - the circle is not a circle, but a irregular shape, with square corners Therefore, the formula is a lot more complex, having to take into account this "real" shape. For example, it the unit travels parallel to the grid sides (either perfectly horizontal or vertical), it will spend exactly the same amout of time in the minefield, regardless if it's passing over the hexes which contain the mine, or over / under it by 1 hex. Please let me know if this makes sense to you or if I'm badly wrong about it . | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On March 20 2013 02:19 moQbara wrote: Very nice job starting this thread. However, I do feel like there are some things not covered. Most importantly, I think you should analyze unit speed more carefully, based on the direction of travel. SC2 shape theory - it explains how I came up with the picture below. Skip if you don't care about it .+ Show Spoiler + As I understand it, the model behind starcraft 2 has a square based hex grid (i.e.: what we see when building new stuff). That is what the game engine uses for distance calculations (1 such square is 1 unit of distance). Because of this, a radius of 5 will not actually be a circle with a diameter of 10 units. It will actually be a square-cornered shape, defined by the grid units which are covered by an imaginary circle of radius 5+ half of the size of the modeled unit generating it. A widow mine (I think) covers a single grid unit, so it will be a circle of 5+0.5 grid units. I assume the "rules" are just like with everything else - round up to nearest integers. Therefore, every cell covered more than 50% will be part of the "radius". Here's an approximation of what I tried to explain: http://i.imgur.com/CdgfsjV.png Theoretically, being a "circle" a unit should pass it just as fast in any direction. However, given the actual shape and the addition of the unit hex, we can calculate that for a unit with a speed of 1 it will take: - 11 seconds to clear the mine field, assuming it moves on the E6-O6 path (11 hexes total) - ~9.9 seconds, assuming it moves on the F2 -> N10 path (~9.89 hexes total) Your original formula assumes the unit path through the "minefield" is a chord in a 5-radius circle. However: - the circle has a radius of 5.5 - the circle is not a circle, but a irregular shape, with square corners Therefore, the formula is a lot more complex, having to take into account this "real" shape. For example, it the unit travels parallel to the grid sides (either perfectly horizontal or vertical), it will spend exactly the same amout of time in the minefield, regardless if it's passing over the hexes which contain the mine, or over / under it by 1 hex. Please let me know if this makes sense to you or if I'm badly wrong about it .While this is likely spot on, I don't feel the added complexity to get the fully accurate picture is necessary to understand the Widow Mine mechanics and be able to use them to your advantage. OP's method should be more than sufficient for even high level play. | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
It's funny thinking back to game 4 between Life and Flash now and seeing how easy it would have been for Flash to get his mines to trigger. Rather than pulling back entire squads of marines and giving Life a clear path to run through his mines, he could have left his back row (~4 marines) to impede the path of the lings. This kind of information is really cool, because I can only imagine it increasing the amount/types of micro required in battles where mines are involved. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
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