EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 366
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
Lately I'm having alot of trouble against terrans who go for a 3 rax pressure and then instead of going for a factory instead go for a fast third CC. I find myself unable to move out and take my own third as fast as them because they have more bio units and can kite my mostly zealot army so I must stay near my photon overcharge. What should I do in this circumstance? | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
So basically, you shouldn't think "oh I had to make an immortal and that disrupted my build yada yada yada", but rather "I'm ahead in tech". If your opponent is adding a third before a factory, then holy shit, they're really gonna be behind in tech and probably ugprades as well. Just get a handful of units and forcefully take your third, you won't need to keep anything in your base for a while, because he won't be dropping you for quite some time. And another thing you can do is counter attack his third with a few zealots and stuff. Later on, the time he spent not making medivacs or vikings won't come back. Maybe even a colossus push would work depending on how late his starport is and the different in army size... but I'm not sure if I'd take that risk. Of course, if you let him take a third much faster than usual and fail to take yours early enough, you're in for some trouble anyway. Letting the terran start their third at 8 minutes or so before adding tech and being contained until 12+ minutes is not good in my experience. I'd attempt to take it at 11 minutes or earlier if possible. Oh yeah, as for the kiting nightmare... faster colossus range + about 3 sentries should make your life much easier. He can't overdo that because he won't have medivacs, so as long as you don't let him overwhelm you and snipe your colossi, stim will hurt him too. Perhaps cut probes and warp in more units earlier if you're really worried about not being able to move out. Or add double forge after your third if you scout his third early enough to react, but that depends on how fast he takes his third. | ||
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
On October 20 2015 14:34 vhapter wrote: What Crank told me on stream a while ago about stim timings is that you should just scout it, then make an immortal and units to defend (perhaps pull probes if really necessary). Your opponent will mostly likely delay his upgrades and factory to do this, so that means no drops until 11 minutes or something? Dunno, but you should be able to see how far behind they are in tech with your observer. So basically, you shouldn't think "oh I had to make an immortal and that disrupted my build yada yada yada", but rather "I'm ahead in tech". If your opponent is adding a third before a factory, then holy shit, they're really gonna be behind in tech and probably ugprades as well. Just get a handful of units and forcefully take your third, you won't need to keep anything in your base for a while, because he won't be dropping you for quite some time. And another thing you can do is counter attack his third with a few zealots and stuff. Later on, the time he spent not making medivacs or vikings won't come back. Maybe even a colossus push would work depending on how late his starport is and the different in army size... but I'm not sure if I'd take that risk. Of course, if you let him take a third much faster than usual and fail to take yours early enough, you're in for some trouble anyway. Letting the terran start their third at 8 minutes or so before adding tech and being contained until 12+ minutes is not good in my experience. I'd attempt to take it at 11 minutes or earlier if possible. Oh yeah, as for the kiting nightmare... faster colossus range + about 3 sentries should make your life much easier. He can't overdo that because he won't have medivacs, so as long as you don't let him overwhelm you and snipe your colossi, stim will hurt him too. Perhaps cut probes and warp in more units earlier if you're really worried about not being able to move out. Or add double forge after your third if you scout his third early enough to react, but that depends on how fast he takes his third. The double forge after third seems like the best solution since there will be extra money for units, but with the pigbaby style i go blindly for double forge after the gas @ natural at about 7:30, and the observer scout reaches his base/third at 8 minutes, So i can't cut the double forge. As for the counter attack, should i make a warp prism or just have had a probe out hiding all game to make a proxy pylon later? I feel really strapped for minerals on holding this timing so its tough to get the warp prism out, and warping in to attack is hard also because I need to devote a lot to defense. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On October 21 2015 05:40 AkashSky wrote:The double forge after third seems like the best solution since there will be extra money for units, but with the pigbaby style i go blindly for double forge after the gas @ natural at about 7:30, and the observer scout reaches his base/third at 8 minutes, So i can't cut the double forge. As for the counter attack, should i make a warp prism or just have had a probe out hiding all game to make a proxy pylon later? I feel really strapped for minerals on holding this timing so its tough to get the warp prism out, and warping in to attack is hard also because I need to devote a lot to defense. You can easily send a probe out before any bio timing comes, since you'll have your bases saturated by 7:50 or so. Warping in 2 zealots or so to attack his third if he gets it early delays the terran's income and forces him to send something there to defend. Of course, you shouldn't do this if you'll straight up die, take too much damage in the meantime, or if it delays your third considerably, but it's one thing to consider doing. Anyway, I can't see why you'd have trouble against this unless you take more damage than you should to the initial push, which is in all likelihood weaker than a regular stim timing anyway, so you're probably just overlooking how much damage you're taking. He's also delaying his tech for VERY long with this strategy by the way. My bet is you're chrono boosting 1-1 instead of getting more robo units out earlier and taking too much damage. Either way, there's only so much that can be said about a nonstandard strategy without a replay. | ||
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Icekin
88 Posts
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mikkingjiggle
1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Allred
United States352 Posts
I am so fucking tired of every pvt being a matchup of can I split my fucking workers fast enough and kill the widow mines or lose 10 probes. I have tried 1 gate expand into robo, stargate openers with oracles and pheonix hell, I have tried 4 gate, and i still lose to the drop in my base because terran can just retreat from natural and hold the ramp because you don't have detection yet. i mean fuck, i have tried forge with cannons in mineral line, and then they just get 4 widow mines and drop them because you can't fucking kill them fast enough. I mean, i know in a perfect world you just see the medivac coming into your base and you move your workers before they drop, but I mean FUCK!, any bronze league terran can widow mine drop, and yet it takes way more skill to defend the drop! HELP! fuck it.... | ||
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
On November 03 2015 14:56 Allred wrote: is there any anti widow mine build? I am so fucking tired of every pvt being a matchup of can I split my fucking workers fast enough and kill the widow mines or lose 10 probes. I have tried 1 gate expand into robo, stargate openers with oracles and pheonix hell, I have tried 4 gate, and i still lose to the drop in my base because terran can just retreat from natural and hold the ramp because you don't have detection yet. i mean fuck, i have tried forge with cannons in mineral line, and then they just get 4 widow mines and drop them because you can't fucking kill them fast enough. I mean, i know in a perfect world you just see the medivac coming into your base and you move your workers before they drop, but I mean FUCK!, any bronze league terran can widow mine drop, and yet it takes way more skill to defend the drop! HELP! fuck it.... Alright here is what you should do. get 2 cannons per mineral line. It will put you stupidly behind vs a terran who goes for a widow mine pressure though. But it will make it so that you don't take as much damage from the 4 widow mine drop. In all honestly though, you are much better off at just practicing how to defend a widow mine drop with a couple stalkers and photon overcharge. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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_Lapack
Japan17 Posts
On November 03 2015 14:56 Allred wrote: is there any anti widow mine build? I am so fucking tired of every pvt being a matchup of can I split my fucking workers fast enough and kill the widow mines or lose 10 probes. I have tried 1 gate expand into robo, stargate openers with oracles and pheonix hell, I have tried 4 gate, and i still lose to the drop in my base because terran can just retreat from natural and hold the ramp because you don't have detection yet. i mean fuck, i have tried forge with cannons in mineral line, and then they just get 4 widow mines and drop them because you can't fucking kill them fast enough. I mean, i know in a perfect world you just see the medivac coming into your base and you move your workers before they drop, but I mean FUCK!, any bronze league terran can widow mine drop, and yet it takes way more skill to defend the drop! HELP! fuck it.... There are 2 ways imo. (1)1gate fe + robo/forge -> one cannon for each minerals. Its more forgiving to late reaction by protoss player. However, 1. You can't pressure the opponent after defending the mine drop, even if you kill his medivac. Also you will be far behind if he does some fast 3rd CC (like 1rax 3rd CC) build. 2. You are kind of vulnerable to any 3rax bio aggression. (2)standard blink/robo opener This is the one I (and probably many players) like. Although it requires some practice. I recommend to watch PtitDrogo's video guide and learn his build  good luck! | ||
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_Lapack
Japan17 Posts
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
You play 1 gas, scout after gate (scouting probe goes to the enemy gas, then to your natural, no circles, this way on 2p map you will place nexus with this probe) , expand. all will be standart. But if you scout that this is gas first (mines signal) , you can do hard counter moves. With first stalker and MSC go scout outside the base (for proxy factory) Don't build probes, after ~18 minerals/(3/3)gas. Place robo on ~5:05-15 , then 2 gates, then build probes. Depending on your skill rally probes to 1-st nexus,(its easyer to defend 1 base, then 2) when you get 1-st obs, and 2-nd (all boosted) you can transfer probes, and get 4-5 stalkers per nexus. Nice adjustment to get 1 pylon on the ramp. and put 1-2 stalkers on hold there, so no helions run by. When u get free gas/minerals get twillight. Boost blink, get few obs's, get +4 gates, go blink attack after defending drop, you should be ahead in army. Don't try to win, if he fly CC to main, and defend 1 base..just get 3-d, and transition to preffered comp vs MECH. Zealot/archon/immortal , 3SG - Carriers-Tempests , or even stalker-colossus-archonts could work(but harder) | ||
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States763 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
Or maybe I just switch race then. I'm going thru state's replaypack and it's weird that zerg works as aggressor at the same time when it's aiming for lategame. He also seems to lose to most of early aggression (<7m) including 12gas11pool that he 9scouted. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6274151 This build doesn't have phoenixes but it looks fun build to play and good for micro/multitask prac. e: State said oracle prism harass into 2sg phoenix with 3rd is good. Anyone has notes for this strategy? | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Since the larva production is nerfed - if the Oracle is scouted, should I kill larvae or try for drones? (theer are spores in mineral lines) If nothing has changed an oracle should kill a larvae in a single hit where a drone takes 2 hits. If the Zerg spawns the way that larvae is on the opposite side of hatchery than the mineral line is, the spore doesn't protect it. Just being curious  | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On December 01 2015 01:05 deacon.frost wrote: Just a quick question(I haven't found the LotV thread so I'm putting it here). Since the larva production is nerfed - if the Oracle is scouted, should I kill larvae or try for drones? (theer are spores in mineral lines) If nothing has changed an oracle should kill a larvae in a single hit where a drone takes 2 hits. If the Zerg spawns the way that larvae is on the opposite side of hatchery than the mineral line is, the spore doesn't protect it. Just being curious It is always worth it to kill the larvae if you can, it takes barely any time or energy, but prioritize drones over larvae. | ||
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Barthy
9 Posts
http://www.ggtracker.com/matches/6288410 | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 01 2015 06:05 SC2Toastie wrote: It is always worth it to kill the larvae if you can, it takes barely any time or energy, but prioritize drones over larvae. Thanks! | ||
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