EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 335
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
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insitelol
845 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On March 24 2015 14:01 Dracover wrote: Thanks Zermous, very well written and makes a lot of sense. I think I will try to incorporate it as a game plan. Many maybe is should change my name to be zero mouse at this rate ...  NP glad you found it helpful | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
Do you have a written build for the SG version somewhere? I've been doing the 3gate -> third variant | ||
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
Should I rush for the stalker, or should i go for zealot and then stalker? Or Should I pull probes instead and deal with it that way? | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
Also, I have no idea what an indirect cannon rush is supposed to mean. It's like you're trying to coin a new term without a clear explanation or context. oO | ||
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Roadog
Canada1670 Posts
On March 25 2015 08:24 vhapter wrote:Also, I have no idea what an indirect cannon rush is supposed to mean. It's like you're trying to coin a new term without a clear explanation or context. oO Sholip coined the term in his article The Art of Cannon Rushing. Basically it means the first cannon is not in range of your buildings, to serve as protection for more forward pylons/cannons. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On March 25 2015 00:17 DarkLordOlli wrote: Thank you Zeromouse Do you have a written build for the SG version somewhere? I've been doing the 3gate -> third variant No hard written down build order. I get gate - forge - stargate - finish wall, or sometimes gate - forge - gate - stargate - gate depending on scouting. I should probably break down the build in detail however the issue is that on ladder people will just make lings and try to run in for example. So for me, as long as I can scout well and see that they arent going to run in a bunch of speedlings I will put the stargate down, and as soon as i think maybe speedlings are coming i will write and finish the wall. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
Please note: I will include only spots/wall off from 1 spawn, you can easily found the ones in the other spawn(s) as they are symmetric (unless otherwise specified). Because 3rd base cannon rushes against zerg are pretty weak, I will only include 2 pylon wall offs that can hit immediately the hatchery (if any). All of these maps have many 3 or 2 pylon wall offs in the back of the mineral line that can be used to cannon rush in PvP, however only in Iron Fortress abusing cliffs to cannon rush is viable (like Yeonsu or King Sejong, but weaker). Echo : Natural Wall off: + Show Spoiler + Standard Catallena /Merry go Round/Expedition Lost "1 pylon + 2 3x3 buildings" wall off. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kYKw7ts.png) Natural Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + This map features no 2 pylon wall off spots, but 8 different 3 pylon wall offs. Of these, only #1 and #8 are close to the hatchery, and only #8 takes control of the ramp AND is close to the hatchery. So #8 is definitely the best cannon rush spot. The only issue about #8 is that it can be hit from the high ground with queens, although it's pretty far away from creep, which makes it very hard to reach it with spines. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2YFoRUA.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TDi78NK.png) Main base Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + The main bases, like the natural bases, feature tons of 3 pylon wall-off cannon rush spots. The most interesting of them all however is definitely number #7. It is a 4 pylon wall off which can contain 3 2x2 buildings inside of it. 2 cannons (the "inner" one and the "external" one which is further from the middle of mineral line) can hit the nexus, so it is advisable to add a reinforcement pylon in the third spot instead of a cannon, as that cannon can't hit any more mineral patches compared to the "inner" one. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i2xhrHe.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/04V85b2.png) Third base Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + This map actually features a 2 pylon wall off with a cannon behind that is surprisingly in range of a building base (hatchery). ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BIM0o0j.png) PvZ cannon rush rating: 4/5 Despite having an incredible amount of cannon rush spots, this map lacks a cannon rush spot that is close to the hatchery and that can control the natural or main base ramp without being able to be broken from the high ground. PvP cannon rush rating: 3.5/5 There are many cannon rush spots in the back of the mineral line, especially the 4-pylon one, but I'm not sure if they can hold up to an extremely quick probe pull. Coda: Natural Wall off: + Show Spoiler + Same wall off as Echo, with the addition of Debris. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/10hAgsG.png) Natural Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + This map also features many different cannon rush spots, but only #5 is in range of the natural base, and it's also the only one that can control the ramp. Like in Echo, it can be hit from the high ground. However the ramp is closer to the creep compared to Echo, and the cannon rush is further from the ramp, making it weaker. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qgf6McL.png) Main base Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + Like Echo, there are many wall off positions in the back of the mineral lines, although they are all far away from the nexus. 2 spots (#1 and #4), however, can be walled off with just 2 pylons, making it good places to start a cannon rush. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TBFpO7j.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tbTUELM.png) Third base Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + Coda has a juicy spot where you can wall off 1 or 2 cannons with only 2 pylons in the third base, which are in range of the whole mineral line. You can build just 1 cannon and use the other spot to build a reinforcement pylon. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DJPVuAk.png) PvZ cannon rush rating: 3.5/5 . Similar to Echo, but the best natural cannon rush spot is slightly weaker for the above mentioned reasons. Gains something because of the cool 3rd base cannon rush spot. PvP cannon rush rating: 3.5/5 . Pretty much the same story as Echo, even though it has some 2 pylon wall off spots. Might be slightly better, though. Cactus Valley: Natural Wall off: + Show Spoiler + All naturals can be walled of using just 2 3x3 buildings. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i5nk4l1.png) Natural Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + There is only one good cannon rush spot which takes control of the ramp (which is quite far away from the creep) and is in range of the hatchery. Once again, this can be hit from the high ground. Note that top left/bottom right spawns are slightly different here than top right/bottom left, but the spot is the same, it just requires a slightly different pylon placement. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X3VghfV.png) Main base Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + Another map that has good wall off positions behind the mineral line. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Nyq6wEs.png) Third base Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + There is a 2 pylon wall off for each base, however these are available only in top left/bottom right spots. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Kj1tLA6.png) In this case, remember to put the pylon so that the "diagonal hole" is close to the mineral line and not to the geyser, otherwise single zerglings will be able to sneak in. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/a8920eZ.png) PvZ cannon rush rating: 2.5/5 (+0.5 for each not possible spawn) PvP cannon rush rating: 2.5/5 (+0.5 for each not possible spawn) Iron Fortress: Natural Wall off: + Show Spoiler + This wall off takes 1 pylon and 2 3x3 buildings. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TSDaKTI.png) Natural Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + This spot is pretty good. It takes 3 pylons to wall off (possible on all spawn locations) and the first cannon is in range of the hatchery. You will need extra cannons (max 2) to take full control of the ramp, much like on Overgrowth. The cannons can't be hit from the high ground which makes it quite hard to break. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Eja9TVk.png) Main base Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + Similar to the previous maps. Only 1 2 pylon wall off, pretty far away from the mineral line, which can be an advantage because of probe pulls, especially considering that you can build a cannon in the low ground. The first pylons allow to build cannons in range of the nexus. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/30zBjm1.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U6uJHGR.png) Third base Cannon rush: + Show Spoiler + There isn't any strong cannon rush spot that I could find. PvZ cannon rush rating: 3.5/5 (+0.5 for every not possible spawn) PvP cannon rush rating: 2.5/5 (+0.5 for every not possible spawn) | ||
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
oh well. protoss is protoss  thanks for the work | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
Essentially, if they hit all their injects it seems that a zerg can get 60 drones up by 8:00 minutes (or earlier) in game time. This is around the time my zealot sentry push reaches their doorstep where i force them to make other units. In this game, i forgot to research warp gate, (which really delayed my first pushout, but i have had this problem in other games where I don't delay warpgate and zerg goes 3 hatch before pool), but how do I correctly pressure zerg off of a 1 gate expand to make sure that they stay honest and don't go super ham on drones? http://ggtracker.com/matches/5888534 | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
Your attacks didn't make much sense to me, if you went directly for a colossus all in you would have hit ~2 minutes earlier with the same stuff. Forcing out units with a sentry pressure when your opponent already has the correct amount of drones to hold a 2 base all in is basically useless. | ||
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
On March 27 2015 22:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: 3hatch before pool can't actually be published by gate expands if they play it out correctly. It's actually the perfect build matchup for zerg. Wow...that kinda makes me wanna proxy gate since it seems like more than half of my opponents go 3 hatch before pool, blindly. On March 27 2015 23:34 KingAlphard wrote: Blind 3 hatch before pool is indeed pretty good against 1 gate expo. The only way to be annoying is to go for a 3/4 gate pressure (warp in at 6:10). At least that way you can force out a lot of units, and even though you probably won't kill the 3rd hatch, you might get a probe lead for a bit longer than usual. Your attacks didn't make much sense to me, if you went directly for a colossus all in you would have hit ~2 minutes earlier with the same stuff. Forcing out units with a sentry pressure when your opponent already has the correct amount of drones to hold a 2 base all in is basically useless. Ah, Its suppose to make sense, it was probably my execution that was poor. The build i was trying to do is the 4-2-2 from sated's guide. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/474048-protoss-stupid-shit-that-works-on-ladder | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
I'm looking to get my PvX matchups back in shape (Toss is the only race I can't just 'wing it' with, it demanda actual decent builds). Basically, I'm looking for educational VODs/reps (or BOs, if anybody feels like typing them put )For PvZ I'm looking for the 3 base Blink attack For PvP 3g Blink into expansion For PvT the Blink stalker into fast collosus opening. Additionally, I have great trouble playing on Secret Springs (the other maps are decent enough), any tips? | ||
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
On March 28 2015 05:33 SC2Toastie wrote: Hello Protoss Champions! I'm looking to get my PvX matchups back in shape (Toss is the only race I can't just 'wing it' with, it demanda actual decent builds). Basically, I'm looking for educational VODs/reps (or BOs, if anybody feels like typing them put )For PvZ I'm looking for the 3 base Blink attack For PvP 3g Blink into expansion For PvT the Blink stalker into fast collosus opening. Additionally, I have great trouble playing on Secret Springs (the other maps are decent enough), any tips? For PvZ Ptitdrogo's french build is probably what you're looking for video wise. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/481008-french-pvz-guide If not, Shock does start out his opening with blink. In general Shocksc2 has very good videos on protoss. His PvP game did start out with blink, but I'm not sure if thats what you're looking for. And yeah secret springs is silly can't really help you with that :\ | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On March 28 2015 07:24 iMrising wrote: For PvZ Ptitdrogo's french build is probably what you're looking for video wise. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/481008-french-pvz-guide If not, Shock does start out his opening with blink. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCpTQuhmTFw In general Shocksc2 has very good videos on protoss. His PvP game did start out with blink, but I'm not sure if thats what you're looking for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knNIiBOBasU And yeah secret springs is silly can't really help you with that :\ If you dont mind i formatted your post to make it more readable youtube links auto embed here so remember to put them on their own lines. | ||
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On March 28 2015 05:33 SC2Toastie wrote: Hello Protoss Champions! I'm looking to get my PvX matchups back in shape (Toss is the only race I can't just 'wing it' with, it demanda actual decent builds). Basically, I'm looking for educational VODs/reps (or BOs, if anybody feels like typing them put )For PvZ I'm looking for the 3 base Blink attack For PvP 3g Blink into expansion For PvT the Blink stalker into fast collosus opening. Additionally, I have great trouble playing on Secret Springs (the other maps are decent enough), any tips? For the PvT builds you can check out my last guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/467544-partings-pvt-the-big-boy-build The IEM replay pack includes a lot of PvT's with blink>robo openers of all kinds. Parting's build is a bit hard to execute though, if you find you can't hold the third or whatever you can do that same robo/blink opener but go colossus/forge instead of colosuss/quick third and play standard from there. | ||
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