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On March 02 2015 11:40 James123 wrote: Stats : Personal strategy and have his very own style when agressive, if you wish to put time into really weird but well rounded timing, he is the guy.
Zest : The true king of agression and adaptation, really versatile opening most of the time and when he go for agression, he definitely know what he is doing in any match-ups.
herO : Personally I love herO style for a lot of reason. But mainly because he got his own very solid macro oriented build with quite easy execution and adaptability. Definitely not the guy to watch if you are looking for cheese in general.
All of those 3 top-tier protoss can play various style but that's what I noticed after a lot of personal analysis on players. Might be wrong as this is just my personal statement.
There is a lot of good Korean Protoss you can learn from (basically almost all of them) but those are the most popular for some reason.
P.S. : I'd recommend Trap for PvP aswell. Myungsik for solid and sometimes innovative PvZ all-in(particulary like his 8-gate mass chargelot all-in that he used in Proleague).
Cool, but I can't notice any of them stream when I'm online. Is there a replay website or something?
go to esportstv on youtube and watch proleague vods, they are all 100% free unlike GSL
if you need actual ingame replays then go to the teamliquid search and search for thread titles with "replay pack" and pick one from a major tournament like iem or dreamhack
I was thinking of doing a build that gets blink and observers out at 10 minutes time against Terran. Normally in this matchup you would want either collosus or high templar out at this time, but I can't get all 3- fast blink, obs and collosus out at 10minutes. So if I were to hallucinate a collosus to deal with the 10 minute push, would I be able to scare most terrans into not bum rushing my natural? I would have photon overcharge cast slightly pre-emptively so they would think they are running into a photon overcharged natural with a collosus ( that is actually hallucinated).
The real collosus would be out at 11 minutes.
I won't have a problem if they try to doom drop me because ill catch a medivac or two with blink + obs placement. But I will be kinda weak to a frontal assault.
Since you guys were talking about blink being fine against robo expands, I'd like to know what Zest could have done better in the early game against Creator here. He's clearly behind in economy and blink doesn't help him much at all in this game imo.
On March 06 2015 03:55 AkashSky wrote: I was thinking of doing a build that gets blink and observers out at 10 minutes time against Terran. Normally in this matchup you would want either collosus or high templar out at this time, but I can't get all 3- fast blink, obs and collosus out at 10minutes. So if I were to hallucinate a collosus to deal with the 10 minute push, would I be able to scare most terrans into not bum rushing my natural? I would have photon overcharge cast slightly pre-emptively so they would think they are running into a photon overcharged natural with a collosus ( that is actually hallucinated).
The real collosus would be out at 11 minutes.
I won't have a problem if they try to doom drop me because ill catch a medivac or two with blink + obs placement. But I will be kinda weak to a frontal assault.
I don't really know why you think it's hard to get blink, observers, and colossi quickly. The build I showed you a while ago gets all that done - 2 colossi by 10 min, 3-4 observers depending on how you tweak the build, and blink done by about 10:30. You just have to get your robo before your second stalker (either before or after wg, or perhaps delay your stalker and get wg and a robo first if you don't care about killing the reaper and having your tech scouted... not advisable against gas first though imo), stay on 1-2 gates with 3 stalkers or 1-2 stalkers and 1 sentry, then take the geysers at your natural at about 6:00-6:10 and get your robo bay and twilight council before more gates or forges. Chrono boost 2 colossi out + blink, then chrono boost forges. Zest and herO did this all the time last year.
I don't think there's anything to be done there. He doesn't get the scout off with his MSC, by the time he has any conclusive information, he can't do any damage to Creator anymore. He did amazingly to almost even up the game by denying hallucination scouts of his super early third, keeping it from getting punished, and keeping Creator pinned back with proxy storm drops. The game on Deadwing was basically the exact same story.
And what kind of damage would he have been able to do if he'd scouted it earlier? I don't think he could have forced a cancel on the nexus.
EDIT: In fact, I think Creator could have taken an even earlier natural with a quicker robo to deal with blink even more safely. Which means it would have been even harder to do damage to him.
What I want to know is how to play against this sort of build without playing from such a disadvantage, whether it means going tactical all in that abuses something that I probably have been missing or whether I should do something else to transition into a more even macro game.
Ok, but then what is the purpose of blink? It still sounds like you're behind since you're not accomplishing anything relevant with blink while it matters. Your robo, which is more important than blink in the mid game - unless you're up against a stargate maybe? and that's not the case here -, is much later than your opponent's. I don't know, I'd like to see someone do that sort of transition in a real game, but you never see robo expands against blink at pro level these days... and when you do see them, the blink player never seems to get much done just like Zest vs Creator.
On March 06 2015 05:30 vhapter wrote: Ok, but then what is the purpose of blink? It still sounds like you're behind since you're not accomplishing anything relevant with blink while it matters. Your robo, which is more important than blink in the mid game - unless you're up against a stargate maybe? and that's not the case here -, is much later than your opponent's. I don't know, I'd like to see someone do that sort of transition in a real game, but you never see robo expands against blink at pro level these days... and when you do see them, the blink player never seems to get much done just like Zest vs Creator.
Scout the expansion > proxy a stargate > warp the first round stalkers > force overcharge > take ur own expansion > use oracle and blink stalkers to even ur worker count. If you wanna macro, this is the best way imo.
Hey Aiur Bro's :D Can you give me , list of responses to E-Bay block? I start Zealot on 3:05 if i see E-Bay i don't cancel it, and fight...But what is order after it. I start stalker? Gas? Pylon? Tech? Get gas for SG and harass with oracle, or it too late?..I'm high Diamond now , but lately got problems with correct response. (playing gate-expand, with scout after gate..)
I just take the second gas inmediately, let the zealot finish and chrono out the MSC. Your nexus will be delayed, might as well use the money on something else. I like following up with a stargate (since faster second gas) and because they delay their natural as well, so you've got potential to really hurt them economically.
On March 06 2015 22:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: I just take the second gas inmediately, let the zealot finish and chrono out the MSC. Your nexus will be delayed, might as well use the money on something else. I like following up with a stargate (since faster second gas) and because they delay their natural as well, so you've got potential to really hurt them economically.
I found some oldschool build, where you delay exp-warpgate research, but rush zealot-mothercore-stalker and harass, what you think about this opening?
You have to open double gas (2 in each) to do this, I don't think you can do it reactively after being ebay blocked. It's a good opening to mix in though. Not something you can do every game but something that can pick up easy wins at times if people get greedy about building a bunker. If it does nothing you're quite behind though.
Just do what CJ herO does. Open 2 gas. 1 probe each when it finishes. Rally probes to gases 1 by 1 after 16 mineral saturation. If ebay block let zealot finish and saturate gases immediately
If ebay has a lot of hp then you need to start a pylon as well or your 1st stalker will be supply blocked assuming you made your 21st probe
On March 07 2015 01:17 Xinzoe wrote: Just do what CJ herO does. Open 2 gas. 1 probe each when it finishes. Rally probes to gases 1 by 1 after 16 mineral saturation. If ebay block let zealot finish and saturate gases immediately
If ebay has a lot of hp then you need to start a pylon as well or your 1st stalker will be supply blocked assuming you made your 21st probe
Yeah, i saw this opening on MerryGoRound he did...I think this is great opener, thank you! will search some vod's :D
If you're having trouble with early ebay blocks or you expect someone to ebay block you, you can start a very early zealot (before your cybercore). It comes out at about 3:20ish, so you can easily take your nexus before the terran expands (or at least just as quickly) if he still goes for the block. You have the option of letting the zealot finish and send it to your opponent's natural as well to delay their cc or maybe go to his mineral line.
The small delay on your cybercore doesn't really matter because you won't make a msc right away if you get your nexus first anyway (you need to wait for 100 minerals/gas).
On March 07 2015 01:17 Xinzoe wrote: Just do what CJ herO does. Open 2 gas. 1 probe each when it finishes. Rally probes to gases 1 by 1 after 16 mineral saturation. If ebay block let zealot finish and saturate gases immediately
If ebay has a lot of hp then you need to start a pylon as well or your 1st stalker will be supply blocked assuming you made your 21st probe
He doesn't really do this anymore and I don't know why. But I vouch for this gas management trick. It's really good and I do it all the time too.
There are a few things to keep in mind though. This trick relies on you leaving more probes on minerals for longer than usual, which later on also gives you slightly more gas than usual without delaying your nexus. I don't think this works very well if you send a scouting probe though (not before your nexus at least) because it takes longer for the second gas to pay for itself and it messes with your saturation a bit.
Also, there are some maps that have really poorly optimized mineral income, so your msc comes out later than usual if you do this. On these maps, it seems like even leaving more probes on minerals than if you open with a single geyser isn't enough to pay for the gas as quickly as one would hope for. For example, you can start your msc at about 3:47 on Overgrowth with this trick, but if you try it on Daybreak, your msc comes out 8-10 seconds later. I don't really like that, so when I notice that happens I always open 1 gas expand.
In theory, you can also start your zealot and then take your second geyser before your nexus, and then cancel your zealot anyway if you don't need it. I've seen players do this at pro level, although this is probably more common for a stargate follow up. But this delays your msc more than just going double gas right away as far as I know, so I don't know.
A 2:45 zealot finishes at 3:23, so you need to cancel it before that, and you will be in a terrible position if the terran player goes for an ebay block between 3:23 and 3:36 (when you put down your nexus).
My favourite answer is to finish the zealot, destroy the ebay, chronoboost out 2 stalkers to put some pressure, then expand.
what should I do when preparing a colossus all in and the zerg scout my tech? He go roach hydra corruptor and wins easy. Shall I expand? The real question is: what counters roach hydra corruptors? Even if I take expand zerg wins because snipe my colossus and roach hydra kills any gate compositions
If you're going all in with 2 base colossi you can't just take a third. That all in is already held with ~65 drones which means that the zerg player can easily make a mutalisk switch and there's no way you can compete with that on 4 gases. The best thing you can do is completely commit yourself on it and hope for the best.
Roach Hydra corruptor is either a timing attack or a defense from a colossus all in. So all you need to do is to defend. You can use cannons, lots of blink stalkers, and the overcharge to focus down corruptors. It's like dealing with vikings when playing against terran. Once you have storms and archons, that composition becomes pretty much trash.
On March 07 2015 03:22 KingAlphard wrote: A 2:45 zealot finishes at 3:23, so you need to cancel it before that, and you will be in a terrible position if the terran player goes for an ebay block between 3:23 and 3:36 (when you put down your nexus).
My favourite answer is to finish the zealot, destroy the ebay, chronoboost out 2 stalkers to put some pressure, then expand.
You don't need to cancel it. Like I said, you can send your zealot to the terrans base for scouting and/or slow down the cc a bit. It's also useful against 11-11s. Obviously, it's not the most economical thing to do, but it's fine.
Sometimes you can also infer whether the terran will do an ebay block based on small things like how long the stick around with their scv, whether they send it back really early, etc. If anything, it's probably worth starting the zealot before the core just in case the terrans does one of those really hard ebay blocks at 3 min or so, then cancel the zealot and restart it briefly after that.
You can also do what Nani has done a few times in the past, which is to build your second pylon down at your natural behind the mineral line. This allows you to see any ebay blocks right away. Of course, this is not the best pylon placement against 11-11s or to spot the reaper to reposition your msc, but that may not even matter depending on who you're playing.
That brings us back to the point of starting the really early zealot - if you know your opponent and he only goes for the blind, super early ebay block at 3 min (one of my practice partners only that that version), your best bet is to start your zealot asap. Or if you know your opponent likes to do ebay blocks and you don't want to deal with that (I personally hate ebay blocks), you can also start the early zealot and let it finish in order to discourage him from doing so.
It's not a perfect solution by any means, but it's an alternative to consider depending on who you're playing and whatnot. It's also a stylistic decision, which makes it fairly subjective imo.
EPT
