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What is the best way to hold a non scouted proxy marauder ?
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United States7483 Posts
On February 05 2014 05:01 Aeromi wrote:
What is the best way to hold a non scouted proxy marauder ?
Scout it.
In all seriousness though, if it's unscouted, it will depend entirely on what your build is, what units you have out, and your position. Your mothership core should be enough to deal with this most of the time, since marauders don't shoot up. Just micro your probes: pull a few to attack and micro them back as they start to get low, get a few stalkers out, and this should be a fairly easy hold.
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On February 05 2014 05:06 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 05:01 Aeromi wrote:
What is the best way to hold a non scouted proxy marauder ? Scout it. In all seriousness though, if it's unscouted, it will depend entirely on what your build is, what units you have out, and your position. Your mothership core should be enough to deal with this most of the time, since marauders don't shoot up. Just micro your probes: pull a few to attack and micro them back as they start to get low, get a few stalkers out, and this should be a fairly easy hold.
Thanks.
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On February 05 2014 05:01 Aeromi wrote:
What is the best way to hold a non scouted proxy marauder ?
Make sure you actively attack marauders with your msc, just make stalkers off of your gateway, pull some probes to attack if need be, laugh, win. 
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What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts?
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Canada13431 Posts
On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts?
If they double 8 gate in your base, theres nothing you can do.
If its in your base and not 8 gate, you are pretty dead if you dont scout it and need to hope you can run probes around and not lose everything while you wait for photon overcharge. Attacking their base could work if they dont put a forge and cannon down in response, in which case they end up really far ahead with tech (can kill your gate then core for example, and get a core and gas of their own after cannon is done).
If its outside of your base and unscouted, you basically try to get the mama core out and wait for overcharge while running probes about and making more probes with whatever you have for minerals in the bank.
In either case sending the zealot cross map is good as any probe kill hurts someone who cut probes to get proxy gates up and running.
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On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts?
Is there any reason why you are neglecting scouting for proxies in pvp?
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United States7483 Posts
On February 06 2014 10:39 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts? Is there any reason why you are neglecting scouting for proxies in pvp?
There are a number of builds that exist in the matchup that skip scouting because they need every mineral to line up properly. Proxies are often not located in your own base either, and might be in odd places that you wouldn't ordinarily scout. One of the problems in PvP is that not scouting actually puts you ahead much of the time due to the way scout timings work, if you don't outright die to an unscouted build.
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United States4883 Posts
On February 06 2014 15:41 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 10:39 mizU wrote:On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts? Is there any reason why you are neglecting scouting for proxies in pvp? There are a number of builds that exist in the matchup that skip scouting because they need every mineral to line up properly. Proxies are often not located in your own base either, and might be in odd places that you wouldn't ordinarily scout. One of the problems in PvP is that not scouting actually puts you ahead much of the time due to the way scout timings work, if you don't outright die to an unscouted build.
There is no excuse for not scouting your main base and/or areas around your natural in PvP. Even if you're not scouting the main base of your opponent, you still need to check around your base every game (in fact, especially when you're not scouting your opponent's main, especially on ladder).
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United States7483 Posts
On February 06 2014 23:37 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 15:41 Whitewing wrote:On February 06 2014 10:39 mizU wrote:On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts? Is there any reason why you are neglecting scouting for proxies in pvp? There are a number of builds that exist in the matchup that skip scouting because they need every mineral to line up properly. Proxies are often not located in your own base either, and might be in odd places that you wouldn't ordinarily scout. One of the problems in PvP is that not scouting actually puts you ahead much of the time due to the way scout timings work, if you don't outright die to an unscouted build. There is no excuse for not scouting your main base and/or areas around your natural in PvP. Even if you're not scouting the main base of your opponent, you still need to check around your base every game (in fact, especially when you're not scouting your opponent's main, especially on ladder).
Of course you scout your main, but you might not, for example, check that location in your third base, or just outside vision range from the corner of your natural. Hell, people sometimes proxy the watchtower, knowing nobody actually goes straight to it. The point is, missing a proxy isn't that uncommon, even for people who scout, and there is good reason sometimes not to scout that thoroughly (watch pro PvP's, they frequently skip scouting until later).
But yeah, on ladder, scout.
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There is no timing attack that any of us are going to do that is so precise that it can't spare the minerals lost from one probe scouting the edges of your main and natural and going back to work.
Do it every time. Just do it.
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United States4883 Posts
On February 07 2014 03:44 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 23:37 SC2John wrote:On February 06 2014 15:41 Whitewing wrote:On February 06 2014 10:39 mizU wrote:On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts? Is there any reason why you are neglecting scouting for proxies in pvp? There are a number of builds that exist in the matchup that skip scouting because they need every mineral to line up properly. Proxies are often not located in your own base either, and might be in odd places that you wouldn't ordinarily scout. One of the problems in PvP is that not scouting actually puts you ahead much of the time due to the way scout timings work, if you don't outright die to an unscouted build. There is no excuse for not scouting your main base and/or areas around your natural in PvP. Even if you're not scouting the main base of your opponent, you still need to check around your base every game (in fact, especially when you're not scouting your opponent's main, especially on ladder). Of course you scout your main, but you might not, for example, check that location in your third base, or just outside vision range from the corner of your natural. Hell, people sometimes proxy the watchtower, knowing nobody actually goes straight to it. The point is, missing a proxy isn't that uncommon, even for people who scout, and there is good reason sometimes not to scout that thoroughly (watch pro PvP's, they frequently skip scouting until later). But yeah, on ladder, scout.
In those cases, we just consider those proxies "bad" and defend with stalkers/MSC and good micro . I usually check the most common proxy spots and assume I can hold off anything else if I play well.
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United States7483 Posts
On February 08 2014 01:03 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 03:44 Whitewing wrote:On February 06 2014 23:37 SC2John wrote:On February 06 2014 15:41 Whitewing wrote:On February 06 2014 10:39 mizU wrote:On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts? Is there any reason why you are neglecting scouting for proxies in pvp? There are a number of builds that exist in the matchup that skip scouting because they need every mineral to line up properly. Proxies are often not located in your own base either, and might be in odd places that you wouldn't ordinarily scout. One of the problems in PvP is that not scouting actually puts you ahead much of the time due to the way scout timings work, if you don't outright die to an unscouted build. There is no excuse for not scouting your main base and/or areas around your natural in PvP. Even if you're not scouting the main base of your opponent, you still need to check around your base every game (in fact, especially when you're not scouting your opponent's main, especially on ladder). Of course you scout your main, but you might not, for example, check that location in your third base, or just outside vision range from the corner of your natural. Hell, people sometimes proxy the watchtower, knowing nobody actually goes straight to it. The point is, missing a proxy isn't that uncommon, even for people who scout, and there is good reason sometimes not to scout that thoroughly (watch pro PvP's, they frequently skip scouting until later). But yeah, on ladder, scout. In those cases, we just consider those proxies "bad" and defend with stalkers/MSC and good micro . I usually check the most common proxy spots and assume I can hold off anything else if I play well.
Problem is, PvP, being the coin flippy matchup that it is, has a number of viable builds that can lose to that easily. One base stargate openers for example, can lose to that extremely easily, even in a weird location. By the time you notice it, you've got 3 zealots walking up your ramp and it's too late to do much.
Regardless: we all agree on scouting the common locations in your base and your natural.
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On February 06 2014 02:50 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts? If they double 8 gate in your base, theres nothing you can do. If its in your base and not 8 gate, you are pretty dead if you dont scout it and need to hope you can run probes around and not lose everything while you wait for photon overcharge. Attacking their base could work if they dont put a forge and cannon down in response, in which case they end up really far ahead with tech (can kill your gate then core for example, and get a core and gas of their own after cannon is done). If its outside of your base and unscouted, you basically try to get the mama core out and wait for overcharge while running probes about and making more probes with whatever you have for minerals in the bank. In either case sending the zealot cross map is good as any probe kill hurts someone who cut probes to get proxy gates up and running.
I never held proxy gates by running probes around. Once photon overcharge finishes he has like 10 zealots and you have nothing, it doesn't work. Honestly I still have problems in holding scouted proxy gates, don't understand how someone thinks he should hold them unscouted unless his opponent is 1 full league below.
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If it's in your base and you scout it as the gates are coming up, all you have to do is pull 8 or so probes and focus down one of the gateways.
Then it's 1 gate vs 1 gate and you're up in tech and workers.
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Canada13431 Posts
On February 08 2014 07:03 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 02:50 ZeromuS wrote:On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts? If they double 8 gate in your base, theres nothing you can do. If its in your base and not 8 gate, you are pretty dead if you dont scout it and need to hope you can run probes around and not lose everything while you wait for photon overcharge. Attacking their base could work if they dont put a forge and cannon down in response, in which case they end up really far ahead with tech (can kill your gate then core for example, and get a core and gas of their own after cannon is done). If its outside of your base and unscouted, you basically try to get the mama core out and wait for overcharge while running probes about and making more probes with whatever you have for minerals in the bank. In either case sending the zealot cross map is good as any probe kill hurts someone who cut probes to get proxy gates up and running. I never held proxy gates by running probes around. Once photon overcharge finishes he has like 10 zealots and you have nothing, it doesn't work. Honestly I still have problems in holding scouted proxy gates, don't understand how someone thinks he should hold them unscouted unless his opponent is 1 full league below.
Well, you make what you can stalker micro etc, I dont mean just run the probes around the whole time, but you run whats hurt away and if you can run them around for the last 10 energy or w/e then its fine. Its not easy, and it only works vs far away proxies. Of course optimally you scout it and react, but if you see them and they are in a far ish spot then you can choose to try and delay with some micro for energy and you do kill the pylon powering the gateways with the mama core in the mean time. So the zealot count is limited to whatever comes out before you unpower their gates.
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On February 08 2014 07:03 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 02:50 ZeromuS wrote:On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts? If they double 8 gate in your base, theres nothing you can do. If its in your base and not 8 gate, you are pretty dead if you dont scout it and need to hope you can run probes around and not lose everything while you wait for photon overcharge. Attacking their base could work if they dont put a forge and cannon down in response, in which case they end up really far ahead with tech (can kill your gate then core for example, and get a core and gas of their own after cannon is done). If its outside of your base and unscouted, you basically try to get the mama core out and wait for overcharge while running probes about and making more probes with whatever you have for minerals in the bank. In either case sending the zealot cross map is good as any probe kill hurts someone who cut probes to get proxy gates up and running. I never held proxy gates by running probes around. Once photon overcharge finishes he has like 10 zealots and you have nothing, it doesn't work. Honestly I still have problems in holding scouted proxy gates, don't understand how someone thinks he should hold them unscouted unless his opponent is 1 full league below.
It is very much possible with good micro. It was even possible in wings of liberty without the mothership core, just using stalkers and probe hold position (this is talking about proxy gates not in your main however, ones in your main are very very difficult to hold). I know some players in GM that only scout their main base in PvP, because they are confident enough in their probe micro to deal with any proxy gates further away.
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On February 08 2014 20:12 blooblooblahblah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 07:03 KingAlphard wrote:On February 06 2014 02:50 ZeromuS wrote:On February 06 2014 02:24 Kovaz wrote:
What is the best way to respond to unscouted proxy gates in PvP? So far I've won both games that this has happened to me but I'm not sure if the way I've been responding should actually work. Basically I chronoboosted out a zealot and ms core, then pulled all my probes + zealot and ran straight to my opponent's base. In the meantime I focused down the pylon powering the gates with mscore and then used it to kill zealots. In both games I was able to force my opponent to pull his probes and my mscore was able to keep my nexus alive until PO was available, then I brought my probes back home and played normally from there.
Is there a better way to respond? I feel like there's no way I can get zealots or cannons up in time to defend and I feel like I come out ahead the way I've been responding, the worst that can happen is I end up behind on core timing but ahead on probes. Thoughts? If they double 8 gate in your base, theres nothing you can do. If its in your base and not 8 gate, you are pretty dead if you dont scout it and need to hope you can run probes around and not lose everything while you wait for photon overcharge. Attacking their base could work if they dont put a forge and cannon down in response, in which case they end up really far ahead with tech (can kill your gate then core for example, and get a core and gas of their own after cannon is done). If its outside of your base and unscouted, you basically try to get the mama core out and wait for overcharge while running probes about and making more probes with whatever you have for minerals in the bank. In either case sending the zealot cross map is good as any probe kill hurts someone who cut probes to get proxy gates up and running. I never held proxy gates by running probes around. Once photon overcharge finishes he has like 10 zealots and you have nothing, it doesn't work. Honestly I still have problems in holding scouted proxy gates, don't understand how someone thinks he should hold them unscouted unless his opponent is 1 full league below. It is very much possible with good micro. It was even possible in wings of liberty without the mothership core, just using stalkers and probe hold position (this is talking about proxy gates not in your main however, ones in your main are very very difficult to hold). I know some players in GM that only scout their main base in PvP, because they are confident enough in their probe micro to deal with any proxy gates further away.
I'd love to see how they deal with the proxy 2 gate stalker strategy.
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I'd like to see a replay to convince myself. My micro isn't the best but I've never even come close to holding it in this way. I can't mine with probes + 1 zealot vs 3 zealots. Once the stalker and mothership core pop out it's were I totally fuck up the micro, because besides pulling probes away continuously, I also have to kite zealots with the stalker and focus fire them with the mothership core so that they don't regenerate shields. I average ~150 eapm at my best and it seems that I would need to be much faster to do all that micro at the same time properly.
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Yeah, I agree with KingAlphard. It's much easier to understand what to do when you see someone holding off a proxy than just reading the gist of it. Even the most basic response that I know, which is going up to 16 probes while getting 3 gates and spamming zealots defensively, is much easier to understand when you see someone doing it. Whatever the approach, I think replays would be appreciated.
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EPT
