EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 74
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Durmaz21
Sweden52 Posts
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hearters
Singapore224 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:03 Durmaz21 wrote: How do I beat mass WM + Tanks and Thors? I'm talking constant WM production from like 3 or 4 reactored factories. I don't see how I can cost efficiently engage this. Brood lords | ||
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Durmaz21
Sweden52 Posts
and not get too frustrated playing against possibly the most obnoxious style | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:03 Durmaz21 wrote: How do I beat mass WM + Tanks and Thors? I'm talking constant WM production from like 3 or 4 reactored factories. I don't see how I can cost efficiently engage this. Swarm Host - bane - ling | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:37 Durmaz21 wrote: oh that makes sense... so it's just a matter of trying to hold on + Show Spoiler + and not get too frustrated playing against possibly the most obnoxious style No it's actually terrible advice. Swarm hosts do work pretty well. You will probably need to open with a few roaches so you an get a third down and fight off hellion/hellbat mines. But don't make too many roaches or else you won't get enough swarm hosts fast enough. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:03 Durmaz21 wrote: How do I beat mass WM + Tanks and Thors? I'm talking constant WM production from like 3 or 4 reactored factories. I don't see how I can cost efficiently engage this. Swarmhost/roach/hydra into the addition of vipers in late game smashes this, if you get late game you can go ultra or broodlord in with hydra/swarmhost/viper and you'll smash it even more. | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:03 Durmaz21 wrote: How do I beat mass WM + Tanks and Thors? I'm talking constant WM production from like 3 or 4 reactored factories. I don't see how I can cost efficiently engage this. If the widow mines run under your units aggresively, remember that 3 banes kill them in a radius. | ||
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Crugio
Australia45 Posts
RE: ZvT & Marauder in High Gold/Platinum I've been struggling with Marauder compositions lately on several occasions. The typical scenario is that Terran goes for Rax expand, bunker his nat and then 2-base bio-medivac. Sometimes there is a small hellion harrass. The story goes that Terran will push with: * a mix of Marauders, Marines and Medivacs (skipping Mines/Tanks as he can't afford the gas and opts for more medivacs). * 2/2 * stim/shield/concuss * gets a third behind push; * blind counters my muta counter attacks with 2-3 turrets per base I will have standard "vs bio" build ala Ling/Bane/Muta following Blade55555's guide. Generally, I will have 3 base saturation + a macro hatch; ling speed; +2melee/+2 carapace; spire & +1 air attack. With or without the hellion harrass, I can get fantasic creep spread (with 2 queens) + a few roaches. I have great flanks setup due to this creep. Now the key issue for me is engagement. If the Terran composition was marine with or without mines the ling/banes would just clean it up with the mutas focusing the medivacs. I have found that either via RNG or pre-setup, Terran will arrange his ball with the Marauders shielding the Marines (some times 50:50 or marauder heavy 66:34). He will move (magic box i think) carefully across the map (i.e. not a-move). So, I have tried direct engagement from multiple flanks in the usual ling/bane/muta fashion. But my army just dies to a few stims, and Terran will keep moving on into my Nat and Main, it's like an unstoppable phalanx/schiltrom formation. I've tried pure ling, but without individual surrounds I cannot punch through Marauders and the medivacs can largely heal through the lings. Note, I can surround the entire ball easily with lings. I cannot engage the medivacs due to the marines. Now I will try to reinforce with lings, but at this stage of the game I don't stockpile larvae, they will be either mutas (gas cap); or lings (larvae/mineral cap) (ovies aside). Note that I can easily deny 3rd with mutas, and pick off a few workers in main/nat if they are not fast enough with turrets. The only thought I have is that this might be a base trade scenario and I should just swing around, bunker bust with the banes I have and stream all these lings in his nat/base. So how should I engage such an army with Lair tech ? Particularly where I have focused upgrades in melee and air. I would love hear tips and suggestion on engagement of the army or if I should indeed avoid it. Your humble zergling. | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
In the late game, if he has a ton of maras, mass ling infestor works wonders. If not, get ultras. If he keeps counteracting, consider a mass spine wall with some infestors for defense. Replays though | ||
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hearters
Singapore224 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:44 MstrJinbo wrote: No it's actually terrible advice. Swarm hosts do work pretty well. You will probably need to open with a few roaches so you an get a third down and fight off hellion/hellbat mines. But don't make too many roaches or else you won't get enough swarm hosts fast enough. I forgot to mention how to get to brood lords. TLO recommended roach/hydra into muta harass into swarm host harass into brood lords. But the best end goal against mech, to me, is always brood lords. | ||
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Reki
Philippines89 Posts
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
On June 26 2013 12:12 Crugio wrote: Dear swarm overmind, RE: ZvT & Marauder in High Gold/Platinum I've been struggling with Marauder compositions lately on several occasions. The typical scenario is that Terran goes for Rax expand, bunker his nat and then 2-base bio-medivac. Sometimes there is a small hellion harrass. The story goes that Terran will push with: * a mix of Marauders, Marines and Medivacs (skipping Mines/Tanks as he can't afford the gas and opts for more medivacs). * 2/2 * stim/shield/concuss * gets a third behind push; * blind counters my muta counter attacks with 2-3 turrets per base I will have standard "vs bio" build ala Ling/Bane/Muta following Blade55555's guide. Generally, I will have 3 base saturation + a macro hatch; ling speed; +2melee/+2 carapace; spire & +1 air attack. With or without the hellion harrass, I can get fantasic creep spread (with 2 queens) + a few roaches. I have great flanks setup due to this creep. Now the key issue for me is engagement. If the Terran composition was marine with or without mines the ling/banes would just clean it up with the mutas focusing the medivacs. I have found that either via RNG or pre-setup, Terran will arrange his ball with the Marauders shielding the Marines (some times 50:50 or marauder heavy 66:34). He will move (magic box i think) carefully across the map (i.e. not a-move). So, I have tried direct engagement from multiple flanks in the usual ling/bane/muta fashion. But my army just dies to a few stims, and Terran will keep moving on into my Nat and Main, it's like an unstoppable phalanx/schiltrom formation. I've tried pure ling, but without individual surrounds I cannot punch through Marauders and the medivacs can largely heal through the lings. Note, I can surround the entire ball easily with lings. I cannot engage the medivacs due to the marines. Now I will try to reinforce with lings, but at this stage of the game I don't stockpile larvae, they will be either mutas (gas cap); or lings (larvae/mineral cap) (ovies aside). Note that I can easily deny 3rd with mutas, and pick off a few workers in main/nat if they are not fast enough with turrets. The only thought I have is that this might be a base trade scenario and I should just swing around, bunker bust with the banes I have and stream all these lings in his nat/base. So how should I engage such an army with Lair tech ? Particularly where I have focused upgrades in melee and air. I would love hear tips and suggestion on engagement of the army or if I should indeed avoid it. Your humble zergling. ling/bling/muta vs MMMM is actually very simple to micro (I won't say easy...). Actually, since you face an opponent without mines it makes it 10x easier. You said that you have enough lings to surround his army. At this point, the battle should be very easy as long as you have lots of banelings. Just a-move everything and when all your units are engaging quickly select all your banelings (I like to ctrl+left click on the unit icons) and just micro banelings with the move command. The goal is to tell your banelings to go to the very end of his ball from whichever direction you're engaging from. What I mean is to move command them to the furthest edge of his MMM ball. Your banelings will surround his whole army and when they get in range of the marines just queue another attack command and everything should die. Lots of people think that banelings aren't good against marauders. When you have a large amount of banelings, Terran is forced to split his army into smaller groups. This means your lings will have more surface area. If Terran doesn't split, your banelings will just kill everything. It's much more efficient to spend a 50/25 unit to do 20 damage rather than a 25 mineral unit to just melt and MAYBE get 1 or 2 hits in. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
Should I dronescout to determin his opening, or will my lordscouting get there in time? Is this different from 2 and 4 players maps? | ||
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DjayEl
France252 Posts
I have some troubles in ZvT when T goes MMM with Hellbats (with or without mines, usually without). My lings dont do anything obviously, so I go heavy baneling + Muta, but if he splits well (marines go back) I cannot move-command my banes towards them because of Hellbats on the path that own them. So what is happening is they explode on Hellbats, killing them before they can reach Marines, and then my mutas have hard times against remaining rines. Of course he has spend a lot of minerals on hellbats so he has less Marines, so my Mutas are able to eventually clean up the small marine force, then take care of the Marauders, but I am quite assured to lose several of them anyway during the process, and I find myself having to remake gas-expensive mutas + banes while my opponent basically only spends minerals, and I get eventually gas-starved and overwhelmed at some point. I have tried to make some SH or transition t3 faster, but it does not seem to work well compared to scenarios where I'm only facing pure MMMM play without Hellbats. Does anyone know the best way to deal with this style of play ? Thank you so much guys. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
Often times its also good to delay mutas and have one big baneling/ling attack to clear his initial blast and add mutas after you also added your 4th hatchery, I'd try that. Also Roach/Bane styles like Snute/HyuN are really good vs hellbat styles. | ||
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raybasto
United States151 Posts
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BatesCsC
United States99 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:30 Incognoto wrote: That's really fancy Bates, nice post! I'm bookmarking that post so I can come re-read it later when looking for new styles or something ^^ Thanks for the feedback man! | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
On June 26 2013 18:49 raybasto wrote: Whats the best way to deal with mass Raven? I tried going Swarmhosts/Corruptor/Static defense but I wasnt able to break thier mass Planetaries with the Locusts and Corruptors against Point Defense Drones Should be just fine - locusts are free and will eventually kill all their ground stuff. With corruptors you just have to be careful to not get HSM - just remove the one targeted (and fly it into their ravens, preferably). You can also add some infestors to fungal the ravens. | ||
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hearters
Singapore224 Posts
On June 26 2013 18:49 raybasto wrote: Whats the best way to deal with mass Raven? I tried going Swarmhosts/Corruptor/Static defense but I wasnt able to break thier mass Planetaries with the Locusts and Corruptors against Point Defense Drones I don't like swarmhost vs planetary/raven. I suggest ultras to kill bases/scvs and just lots of corruptors with micro. Try to not stack your corruptors too much. If they seeker missile you from close range, try to move the targeted corruptor into their ravens. If they seeker missile from too far away, fly away and disarm the seeker missile. If they point defense drone, you can try to overwhelm it if you have enough corruptors, or just fly away if you can afford to. You can also try infestors with nydus canals nearby. Fungal the ravens to slowly whittle them down. Then when they seeker missile, go into the nydus. | ||
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