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On May 30 2013 01:59 RaFox17 wrote:
Hello beautiful people. Lately i have been learning to play more SH/corruptor v P instead of my normal ling/muta style. My question is that should i first build the infestation pit and pump out SH and then build spire for corruptors or first build my spire (maybe try to fake my tech)??
I don't prefer corrupters. They will melt to voids, and all they will be able to kill are he colossi. Instead, go for hydra-viper. It has the same result but better. Only problem is that it becomes a lot harder when you face HTs, but then you will need the locust to kill them if the HTs become aggresive.
If you prefer corrupters, get SHs first. That or you can go from muta to corrupters to defend mutas and THEN SHs.
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On May 30 2013 20:29 DilemaH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 01:59 RaFox17 wrote:
Hello beautiful people. Lately i have been learning to play more SH/corruptor v P instead of my normal ling/muta style. My question is that should i first build the infestation pit and pump out SH and then build spire for corruptors or first build my spire (maybe try to fake my tech)?? I don't prefer corrupters. They will melt to voids, and all they will be able to kill are he colossi. Instead, go for hydra-viper. It has the same result but better. Only problem is that it becomes a lot harder when you face HTs, but then you will need the locust to kill them if the HTs become aggresive. If you prefer corrupters, get SHs first. That or you can go from muta to corrupters to defend mutas and THEN SHs.
Yeah I pretty much go hydra/viper, as long as you get the colossus with abduct hydra will be fine, and even if you lose the fight you should have a massive bank and just remax on hydras and win. Hydra first against a stargate opening, SH first against anything else (except a warpgate rush then get roaches and shit first).
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Belshir Vestige - should I veto this map?
Seems impossible to take 4th or 5th, or defend against any kind of double aggression (drops, warp ins, ling runbys) due to massive distances. Also seems really hard to get a good creep spread going because of all the different-level pathways. Finally, I think I got 2-raxxed and proxy gated on this map more than any other.
Additionally, what other maps do you zerg people think are really bad for us and should be vetoed?
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On May 29 2013 13:24 willstertben wrote:
sure but roaches are sososo bad now with time warp and shit. zealot + time warp actually tear apart roaches so hard. so it's about having greater numbers, but how is that really possible if you can't get the economy and larvae quickly enough?
also that ling ultra thing is a complete allin and a bad build that will be figured out sooner than later and never work again.
immortals + archon counter ultra ling way too hard for it to make it viable against someone who properly prepares for it.
You're being far too absolute in your assessment of situations. There's a huge amount of wiggle room available in ZvP depending on how each particular game ends up flowing, especially against gateway openers.
On May 29 2013 13:24 willstertben wrote:
immortals + archon counter ultra ling way too hard for it to make it viable against someone who properly prepares for
it.
This is actually wrong, ultralisks have been amazing vP since HotS.
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Canada16217 Posts
On May 31 2013 00:45 Giganthrax wrote:
Belshir Vestige - should I veto this map?
Seems impossible to take 4th or 5th, or defend against any kind of double aggression (drops, warp ins, ling runbys) due to massive distances. Also seems really hard to get a good creep spread going because of all the different-level pathways. Finally, I think I got 2-raxxed and proxy gated on this map more than any other.
Additionally, what other maps do you zerg people think are really bad for us and should be vetoed?
Personally I dislike Klontas Mire, Zerus Prime, & Whirlwind
Zerus Prime - Small chokes in the centrer, not much potential for counter attacks, surrounds etc.
Klontas Mire - I have a good winrate on this map though I do not have very many games, I just don't really like it because of the small bridge.
Whirlwind - Late game can be tough here if you're being dropped constantly,warp ins everywhere it can be easy for the other races to take out zerg expansions, while zerg can't do much other than ling counter attacks to take out protoss, and terran expansions, The name of the game for this map is defend defend and defend, overall though it's not bad even though i like to veto it(It also depends on your style for example I like being aggressive in the mid game and it can be tough on this map to do that)
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Hi.
I'm looking for an effective cheese/allin in ZvP. I tried early pools, died every time the Protoss opened with gateway 1st. I tried Roach attacks, couldn't get enough units to overwhelm, Baneling busts I didn't try because from my experience as a Protoss player I stopped those easily. Haven't tried 2 base Swarm Hosts, but from what I know it comes pretty late.
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On May 31 2013 23:56 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Hi.
I'm looking for an effective cheese/allin in ZvP. I tried early pools, died every time the Protoss opened with gateway 1st. I tried Roach attacks, couldn't get enough units to overwhelm, Baneling busts I didn't try because from my experience as a Protoss player I stopped those easily. Haven't tried 2 base Swarm Hosts, but from what I know it comes pretty late.
there really isn't one.
you can do 3 hatch bling or roach allins but those really should never work
the most effective is probably 10gas 10 pool speedling allin against gateway expands but protosses with really good micro will hold it every time even when unscouted and gain a huge advantage. once msc and a sentry is out the rush is basically over.
because of the way the races work (zerg lower worker count early, msc/cannon/walloffs) you will never be able to kill protoss early on you can just get ahead and that is really not worth the risk i think.
On May 31 2013 00:45 Giganthrax wrote:
Belshir Vestige - should I veto this map?
Seems impossible to take 4th or 5th, or defend against any kind of double aggression (drops, warp ins, ling runbys) due to massive distances. Also seems really hard to get a good creep spread going because of all the different-level pathways. Finally, I think I got 2-raxxed and proxy gated on this map more than any other.
Additionally, what other maps do you zerg people think are really bad for us and should be vetoed?
klontas and zerus are retarded maps and you should veto regardless of race. so you're kinda left with only 1 veto this season.
personally i veto'd star station cause i hate the map but i can see how it could be a good zerg map so i'd say keep it.
definitely keep whirlwind: really good map for zerg. if you struggle against drops just make more static defense.
if you're bad against turtle style you should probably veto akilon because those 4 bases are pretty much free to obtain.
on the other hand that can work for you as well if you feel in a good spot when you get in a macro game. zvp can be insanely difficult on that map though!
if you don't have good map awareness and scouting you might want to veto neo planet. can't see his nat gases with an overlord, no watch towers, pretty short rush distances. then again it's a great map for doing sneaky stuff yourself and great for baneling mines and such. zvp can be a really easy win if you manage to cut in between his nat and 3rd base with a roach hydra corruptor/viper allin. mutas can also be really good here because of the base layout. zvz is a nightmare here though, super coinflippy.
derelict watcher i think can be pretty hard. while it's good to have pretty long attack distances i think you're pretty much forced to drone scout zvt and zvp to be able to react to what they're doing properly. zvz there are some weird allins that abuse long scout distances while still knowing where opponent is.
great for lategame zvt though! hard for terran to take bases.
belshir i don't really know i think it's not particularly good but not particularly bad either. mobility based gameplay recommended on that map.
your 3rd veto is up to you really, but i guess either akilon or neo planet would make the most sense from a zerg perspective
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Hey there.
I'm really struggling to spread creep in games, like any at all. In a 22 minute game earlier (Here if anyone would like to watch and critique my general play - always up to improve) I built a grand total of 2 creep tumours I believe, maybe 3 if I was in good form. Does anyone have any tips on how to remember to spread creep or a good way to get going with it? Thanks in advance.
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you can make a rule to always creepspread after injects. that kinda works out alright and it's how i started to work on my creepspread deficit but you can be much more effective still. maybe custom game without an opponent. that way you can work on your build and creepspreading at the same time.
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On June 01 2013 00:54 LardMaster wrote:Hey there. I'm really struggling to spread creep in games, like any at all. In a 22 minute game earlier ( Here if anyone would like to watch and critique my general play - always up to improve) I built a grand total of 2 creep tumours I believe, maybe 3 if I was in good form. Does anyone have any tips on how to remember to spread creep or a good way to get going with it? Thanks in advance.
Change the way you think about it. In your head make it a requirement to stop whatever kind of attack you're expecting. For instance if you expect early aggression connect your the creep between your main and natural so you can easily move your queens to defend. If you expect a strong mid game timing cover the front of your base in creep so you have an area to defend on. If you expect he's going to be passive or you just don't know what he's planning try to push creep straight toward his base so you're able to see anything coming. When you get better then you can try to cover everything but until then just having a plan goes a long way.
Make sure you always have a third queen for creep spread early in the game after you take your natural.
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On May 31 2013 06:58 SoulSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 13:24 willstertben wrote:
sure but roaches are sososo bad now with time warp and shit. zealot + time warp actually tear apart roaches so hard. so it's about having greater numbers, but how is that really possible if you can't get the economy and larvae quickly enough?
also that ling ultra thing is a complete allin and a bad build that will be figured out sooner than later and never work again.
immortals + archon counter ultra ling way too hard for it to make it viable against someone who properly prepares for it. You're being far too absolute in your assessment of situations. There's a huge amount of wiggle room available in ZvP depending on how each particular game ends up flowing, especially against gateway openers. Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 13:24 willstertben wrote:
immortals + archon counter ultra ling way too hard for it to make it viable against someone who properly prepares for
it. This is actually wrong, ultralisks have been amazing vP since HotS.
While I agree ultralisks are good vs p he is correct that protoss can get an anti ultra army that just melts ultralisks while doing little damage to the protoss army. The thing is that then protoss is very vulnerable to a broodlord switch which is what the zerg should be doing once he sees the protoss army.
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On May 31 2013 23:56 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Hi.
I'm looking for an effective cheese/allin in ZvP. I tried early pools, died every time the Protoss opened with gateway 1st. I tried Roach attacks, couldn't get enough units to overwhelm, Baneling busts I didn't try because from my experience as a Protoss player I stopped those easily. Haven't tried 2 base Swarm Hosts, but from what I know it comes pretty late.
If they FFE, I like to finish their wall with a proxy hatchery, spanishiwa style (especially if he pylon blocks my natural AND goes nexus first). Make lings as soon as your pool finishes, and when your lings make it to his base, cancel the hatchery to let your lings in. Kill the warping cannon first, then kill the pylon powering the gateway--if the first zealot doesn't make it out, he pretty much just loses. Use your overlord to watch for a pylon wall at the top of the ramp.
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probably been asked before, cant find more recent advice.
how do you hold proxy 2 rax (like innovation's) in ZvT
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earlier pool (thats why you're supposed to drone scout), dont pull drones until last minute, make spine in good position.
if he makes bunker far back like that dont chase him there but mine more minerals instead
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On June 01 2013 15:48 courtpanda wrote:
probably been asked before, cant find more recent advice.
how do you hold proxy 2 rax (like innovation's) in ZvT
Check out Soul Key's recent response in the GSL, which is basically Hatch cancel into a Baneling bust.
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Do any of you guys know what the gas timing has to be to reach 200 gas after a Roach Warren built on 28 supply finishes?
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On June 01 2013 18:11 MoonCricket wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 15:48 courtpanda wrote:
probably been asked before, cant find more recent advice.
how do you hold proxy 2 rax (like innovation's) in ZvT Check out Soul Key's recent response in the GSL, which is basically Hatch cancel into a Baneling bust.
I'm curious if this really is a viable response or something that only works if the terran doesn't know how to react to it.
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On June 01 2013 18:29 CommanderS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:11 MoonCricket wrote:On June 01 2013 15:48 courtpanda wrote:
probably been asked before, cant find more recent advice.
how do you hold proxy 2 rax (like innovation's) in ZvT Check out Soul Key's recent response in the GSL, which is basically Hatch cancel into a Baneling bust. I'm curious if this really is a viable response or something that only works if the terran doesn't know how to react to it.
nah only worked because
1) 2 of innovations bunkers were splashable with blings,
2) innovation did a 5 depot walloff, losing all of them to 4 blings into massive supply block,
3) he tried to make reactor helions
but busting the bunkers in your nat with blings is the only somewhat good way to react to having bunkers at your nat and it's nothing new either.
the best response is to make a pool right after the hatch (15 hatch 14pool) and use the creep + slow ling + drone to fight marines while you make a spine and one queen at your nat. also dont get pool first! that might be counter intuitive but you actually NEED the creep to be able to defend against 2 rax.
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On June 01 2013 00:54 LardMaster wrote:Hey there. I'm really struggling to spread creep in games, like any at all. In a 22 minute game earlier ( Here if anyone would like to watch and critique my general play - always up to improve) I built a grand total of 2 creep tumours I believe, maybe 3 if I was in good form. Does anyone have any tips on how to remember to spread creep or a good way to get going with it? Thanks in advance.
force yourself to spread creep and see the benefits of the creep and you will force yourself to spread more creep.
even having more creeping queen would help
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Talking about creep spread.. I'm decent at it, but once my opponent kills the front "active" tumors, it becomes hard to regain terrain with creep, cause I have to bring queens to the front line (and I lose injects this way). Are there some tricks I am unaware of, like for example keeping some active tumors behind, and don't just send them all to the creep borders as I expand it?
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EPT
