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alcaras
United States67 Posts
Replays: http://ggtracker.com/matches/3410575 (10 pool) http://ggtracker.com/matches/3400900 (8 pool) I'm thinking it comes down to drone micro, but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong micro-wise -- trying to mineral stack and attack, but it doesn't seem to be working right? Maybe I don't know how to mineral stack. Anyone point me at a decent guide/tutorial on what I should be doing to hold these? | ||
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sdrawkcab_
Norway113 Posts
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JohnJohnson
United States49 Posts
I've been doing 10 pool openings just as something different. Alot of times I'm able to cancel their nat, especially if they went 15 hatch. The issue I'm having though, is figuring out how I should be transitioning. I make no more than 10 lings usually, but I'm not sure if it's best to get a queen and gas first, then try and expand, or try and expand while my lings are out, BEFORE getting queen/gas. Another issue I have , is when I open 10 pool, and he went 13/13 gas/pool , or a similar opening. Should I delay my expo at that point, and gas myself, for banes? | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On June 03 2013 08:35 sdrawkcab_ wrote: What composition should I aim for when facing marine/hellbat/tank/medivac? Roach hydra OR ling bane will work, but emphasize mutas greatly. Ultra tech will help a lot. | ||
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Valon
United States329 Posts
On June 03 2013 11:21 JohnJohnson wrote: Need help from those who are familiar with 10 pool openings in zvz: I've been doing 10 pool openings just as something different. Alot of times I'm able to cancel their nat, especially if they went 15 hatch. The issue I'm having though, is figuring out how I should be transitioning. I make no more than 10 lings usually, but I'm not sure if it's best to get a queen and gas first, then try and expand, or try and expand while my lings are out, BEFORE getting queen/gas. Another issue I have , is when I open 10 pool, and he went 13/13 gas/pool , or a similar opening. Should I delay my expo at that point, and gas myself, for banes? First if you 10 pool it's best to drone scout and see the hatch timing because if they did not go hatch first its best to not build any ling and take an expo. I remember a game Nestea played where he 10 pooled but made 0 lings because the opponent didn't go hatch first. He went into the gassless play where you defend with spines and queens. Unless you are planning and going all in off it with speed and or banes check the hatch timing. It depends on what you do, there is the 10 pool with speed which is more allinish because you have less minerals. If you 10 pool and you cancel the hatch I would expand and get the queen and skip gas for the moment and defend with spines and queens as your mineral income will be lower unless you did some major damage. As for transitions Most 10 pools go into roach play especially now with the spore buff. For your question about 13/13 (I assume you mean 14/14) take your natural but he will have speed before you and a better mineral income so try to play catchup and defend with spines and queens. You can get a little gas and go for baneling nest before speed if you are super worried he will do a big attack. Otherwise the gassless play will work okay (Not too sure as I don't see 14/14 very often anymore) I'm not the best expert on cheese but this is just what I have observed playing against it. Hope this helps. | ||
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Valon
United States329 Posts
On June 02 2013 04:34 mastabg wrote: I neeeeeeeeeed help in ZvsT. High gold player vs master on ladder I know it's really hard for gold to win vs master but still i think i play good. Can someone say where i go wrong and what to improve ? http://drop.sc/339586 I don't have time to watch the replay right now, but if you are playing against bio/mine you want to take gas sparingly and focus on your mineral income. Zerglings are your friends against that comp. when you engage you want to move command past the army and surround it that way widow mine shots hit the terran too. I used to get too much gas and emphasize mutas, but it's lings you want with double upgrades. Personally I get 2 gasses at 6 min and operate off those for awhile then slowly add on more. I am masters BTW. | ||
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mokumoku
157 Posts
anyway, what do i do when toss pylon blocks my natural? i always seem to fall apart when that happens. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 03 2013 15:08 mokumoku wrote: why do terran and toss have that very good guide in their OP and zerg don't? anyway, what do i do when toss pylon blocks my natural? i always seem to fall apart when that happens. Nobody wants to do it I think. If protoss pylon blocks your natural 2 things you can do. Wait for lings and then take the expansion, or take your third as an expo. Now taking the third first can be risky if the protoss is going gate first, but normally when you get pylon blocked it's going to be forge expand. Now if you wait for lings to kill it, it's fine you have to remember he's delaying his tech just like he's delaying your expo. It evens itself out and it's not something to freak out over or react in a different way. Just play normal, take the expo a little later and you'll be fine. | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On June 03 2013 11:21 JohnJohnson wrote: Need help from those who are familiar with 10 pool openings in zvz: I've been doing 10 pool openings just as something different. Alot of times I'm able to cancel their nat, especially if they went 15 hatch. The issue I'm having though, is figuring out how I should be transitioning. I make no more than 10 lings usually, but I'm not sure if it's best to get a queen and gas first, then try and expand, or try and expand while my lings are out, BEFORE getting queen/gas. Another issue I have , is when I open 10 pool, and he went 13/13 gas/pool , or a similar opening. Should I delay my expo at that point, and gas myself, for banes? The recommended econ versionIMO is 10pool -> DET into 12 drones before overlord -> 8 lings (I sometimes build 6 only) and queen -> expo hatch. At least that's what I like doing. That should put you at 17supply where you can then build an overlord before proceeding. 13g/13p (or gas-pool openings) are the hard counter to 10pool but they're not common at high masters, I use the 14g/14p sparingly but I've only faced it once in HOTS at that skill level. For me, if I realize I'm facing gas-pool, after I open I use the WOL defense (when 14/14 was more popular), which is getting queen 1 ASAP, no expo yet, then getting queen 2 right when queen 1 finishes so you can block the ramp against potential speedling runby (which can come even if he decides to get an expo) You should be able to cancel vs 15 hatch and even sometimes 15 pool / 16 hatch (if he isn't saving larva and doesn't see your lings). | ||
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Creegz
Canada354 Posts
On June 03 2013 06:06 dehdar wrote: Thanks a lot. That makes good sense. I was getting frustrated with ZvsZ, since I don't want to resort to tactics such as 6 pool + 2 spine crawlers or other all ins  Hey, no problem man, I've been working on this myself. Before today my percentage against Zerg was like under 30. Now it's back up to almost 50%. I hope that information helps you as much as it did myself. | ||
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dragoon
United States695 Posts
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willstertben
427 Posts
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AwM
United States80 Posts
On June 03 2013 15:32 blade55555 wrote: Lame, having one would be nice as opposed to scouring the thread for answers. Such is the zerg life </3Nobody wants to do it I think. If protoss pylon blocks your natural 2 things you can do. Wait for lings and then take the expansion, or take your third as an expo. Now taking the third first can be risky if the protoss is going gate first, but normally when you get pylon blocked it's going to be forge expand. Now if you wait for lings to kill it, it's fine you have to remember he's delaying his tech just like he's delaying your expo. It evens itself out and it's not something to freak out over or react in a different way. Just play normal, take the expo a little later and you'll be fine. But if i ever get pylon blocked and instantly go to my 3rd as my second base and take my natural at my 3rd timing I still always seem to fall behind in eco and tech. So how many lings would you hatch to take out the pylon? Would 2 lings, the and the drone would kill it quickly enough or should I pop a second pair of lings? Or- should i just wait for the queen from my main that i transfer my nat to help kill it. | ||
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hearters
Singapore224 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 04 2013 04:46 AwM wrote: Lame, having one would be nice as opposed to scouring the thread for answers. Such is the zerg life </3 But if i ever get pylon blocked and instantly go to my 3rd as my second base and take my natural at my 3rd timing I still always seem to fall behind in eco and tech. So how many lings would you hatch to take out the pylon? Would 2 lings, the and the drone would kill it quickly enough or should I pop a second pair of lings? Or- should i just wait for the queen from my main that i transfer my nat to help kill it. Should always have 4 lings, also like I said this doesn't put you behind. You have to remember the money he is putting into delaying your expansion. It delays his tech as well so it all evens itself out trust me just play normal no reason to think you are behind or anything. | ||
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Durmaz21
Sweden52 Posts
I go 17 (18), 26 (28), 31 (36), 36 (44) Numbers in brackets = Max supply at that time Then after 36 I'm not so sure what do to I usually make a 40ish overlord but don't have an exact timing for that one I just kinda feel it out which is not so optimal. Also at about which supply do I make 2 overlords at a time instead of 1? | ||
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hearters
Singapore224 Posts
On June 04 2013 09:15 Durmaz21 wrote: Hey does anyone know some optimal overlord timings? I go 17 (18), 26 (28), 31 (36), 36 (44) Numbers in brackets = Max supply at that time Then after 36 I'm not so sure what do to I usually make a 40ish overlord but don't have an exact timing for that one I just kinda feel it out which is not so optimal. Also at about which supply do I make 2 overlords at a time instead of 1? Depends on your build. F3nneR(GM)'s 3 base protoss build has overlords at 15, 24, 32, 40, 48(2 overlords). So it really depends on your build. Lowko(GM) suggests making 1 overlord per inject as an easy guide. If you're spending more on tech at the start when you have two queens,(e.g. +1/+1, lair), probably you'll make 1 overlord for the first 1-2 double injects. After that, use 1 overlord per inject as a guide, but watch your supply and skip the overlord if you think you don't need it. | ||
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hearters
Singapore224 Posts
Anyone has a quick way to fix this? Or anyone knows the rule of how it works? I tested in unit tester, when I had: 2 queens and 2 lings together and 2 evo chambers in a different screen, I always jumped to the evo chambers. But when I had: 2 queens and 3 lings together and 2 evo chambers in a different screen, I always jumped to the queens and lings! I am thoroughly confused | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 04 2013 09:15 Durmaz21 wrote: Hey does anyone know some optimal overlord timings? I go 17 (18), 26 (28), 31 (36), 36 (44) Numbers in brackets = Max supply at that time Then after 36 I'm not so sure what do to I usually make a 40ish overlord but don't have an exact timing for that one I just kinda feel it out which is not so optimal. Also at about which supply do I make 2 overlords at a time instead of 1? Hm I do 17, 25, 32, 36 as my first overlords (sometimes 1 supply under/over). You want to start making more then 1 overlord probably after you have 2 saturated bases/near it. I can't remember exact timings but that sounds right to me as that is when zerg production starts making a lot at once. | ||
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Smartwater
United States35 Posts
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