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Hello,
I wonder what kind of opening I should do in ZvX. At the moment I am going with 15 Pool 16 Hatchery 15 Overlord 15 Queen 17 Gas (--> 1st Overlord Speed 2nd Zergling Speed 3rd Lair) and never take drones off gas. I do like the fast Overlord speed to get a guaranteed really good scout which has helped me in quite a few games already. If I do not get this kind of scout I often find myself without any knowledge of what my opponent is doing until it could too late already. However, with that early gas I am not able to get out my four queens until later in the game which affects my creep spread a lot. With my first queen I get one creep tumor after the first inject, still, one creep tumor is hardly enough to connect my bases with creep. Spreading creep across the battlefield is basically impossible. Also I feel like this build hurts my drone count a lot compared to a gasless opening.
What is your take on this, should I go back to a gasless opener in ZvT & ZvP as the early gas is hurting me too much and throwing me too far behind in macro?
Thank you!
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On March 16 2013 05:31 gamerdude12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 03:39 blade55555 wrote:On March 16 2013 03:31 Decendos wrote:On March 16 2013 03:22 gamerdude12345 wrote:
How do you counter standard toss play (turtle)? I go mutas and bounce back and forth between bases but they just go stalkers and get blink. I had around 30 mutas, is this enough or should I go for 60+? Swarm hosts didn't work when trying to bust him either. first of all only go muta vs robo and TC, never vs SG. and you need to constantly scout for stargates. if he gets out 8-10 phoenix all your mutas will die. so basically add more mutas and try to keep his basecount low while getting bases and hive up if he does not go phoenix. and if he adds 2-3 SGs and you cant kill them dont build any more mutas and get instant hive and ultras. you pretty much always want to keep him on 3 bases and kill him once ultras are out. until ultras are out never engage his army unless you are 100% sure you can kill it. This is correct. I want to add on though for his comment on swarmhosts. With swarmhosts the goal when using them isn't to kill the toss, it's to set up a contain while you as the zerg expand and tech. Once you get hive and have some vipers out with your hydra/swarmhosts you can start abducting his colossi (I feel templar are an awful counter verse swarmhost) and blinding cloud. Then if you can't kill him yet hydra/ultra/swarmhost/viper is the go to composition in late game zvp. Once I discovered this composition I smash templar/voidray, I beat voidray/tempest/templar/colo no problems at all. Awesome, thanks you blade and Decendos. I'm still a new zerg player (only reason I didn't play it in WoL was because Brood lord / infestor every game was boring) so this advice is helpful. One last question, which pool is best for ZvP? I've heard 14, 15, and 16 pool and I don't exactly know which is the most standard. I was thinking thinking 15 pool 15 hatch 20 hatch (or something along those lines). Thanks!
15 pool, 16 hatch, 21 hatch is best.
On March 16 2013 07:16 SlicK_SC2 wrote:
Hello,
I wonder what kind of opening I should do in ZvX. At the moment I am going with 15 Pool 16 Hatchery 15 Overlord 15 Queen 17 Gas (--> 1st Overlord Speed 2nd Zergling Speed 3rd Lair) and never take drones off gas. I do like the fast Overlord speed to get a guaranteed really good scout which has helped me in quite a few games already. However, with that early gas I am not able to get out my four queens until later in the game. Also I feel like this build hurts my drone count a lot compared to a gasless opening.
What is your take on this, should I go back to a gasless opener in ZvT & ZvP as the early gas is hurting me too much and throwing me too far behind in macro?
Thank you!
Thank you!
I would go and look at this guide for hots zerg since your questions seem to be broad. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402758
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Has anyone come up with a solid way to ZvT?
If he plays bio MMMM i have no idea what to do, Ling infestor, ling bling muta, roach hydra and some wierd SH compositions i tried all failed miserably because either they are not sufficient to kill the army (Ling Bling muta because of mines for example) or they simply get murdered by drops no matter how mutch static defense i put up (everything but muta)
When he plays mech he just turtles on his 3 bases because "need a easy 3rd on every map herp derp" maby takes a 4th and then rolls over with his mech ball of doom while switching into air ...
So in essence, what do you play ZvT?
edit: nvm just saw blades guide, will read that one first ^^
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What maps has everyone veto'd as Zerg? I've got the three 4-player maps veto'd at the moment but having a little bit of trouble on Neo Planet S
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On March 16 2013 05:15 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
I'd love to know how you guys beat colli/tempest/templar/voidray or any similiar lategame composition. Is PvZ switching around now so it's basically allins or die after 20min? I can't wrap my brain around this....
Judging from Idra's stream, there's no way unless you have a massive economy advantage and can afford to throw away tons of units. Just gotta wait for blizz I guess...
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On March 16 2013 14:14 HEN_iP wrote:
What maps has everyone veto'd as Zerg? I've got the three 4-player maps veto'd at the moment but having a little bit of trouble on Neo Planet S
Only the one with silly spawn locations right now. 4 players maps are annoying to play but I'm still giving them a good chance for now.
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On March 16 2013 14:54 KimJongChill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 05:15 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
I'd love to know how you guys beat colli/tempest/templar/voidray or any similiar lategame composition. Is PvZ switching around now so it's basically allins or die after 20min? I can't wrap my brain around this.... Judging from Idra's stream, there's no way unless you have a massive economy advantage and can afford to throw away tons of units. Just gotta wait for blizz I guess...
No there is a way to fight it even though idra doesn't do it yet. Hydra/swarmhost/viper/ultra can beat that composition pretty effectively. It is the best counter and I would say a way to fight it head on.
Here is a couple replay showcasing it and I honestly believe this will be standard in zvp at some point in the near future:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?bjmzggrdj0b2g6b
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?8cs5q61jb1hg2kz (templar void and colossi iirc max)
I really wish beta replays worked as I had a few really good ones there.
Also for the question on map vetos I only vetod korhal compound and newkirk, I like rest of the maps just fine :D
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I'm having a LOT of trouble in ZvZ. My winrate is a laughable 30% I lose a lot of games to Mutas and Ling/Bling attacks. I try my best to scout but I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly. How and when should I scout and what should I look for so I can best counter it? I also find that if they take a third base before me I just lose because I can't move out of my base without taking damage to mass ling or muta run/fly bys. Thanks.
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Which maps should I disable in 1on1 ladder?
edit: nvm seems to have been answered already.
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About Swarmhosts,
Generally speaking,is it better to control spam locust manually or just set their spawn locusts on auto-cast?
Or is it personal preference?
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I recently came back to SC2 with the new expansion like many others and pre-hiatus I was gold/plat zerg player. Well the game speed just seems so much faster so I've attempted to take a step back and work on basics (droning, injecting, expanding etc) not really trying to win just improve my basics.
In my attempts I found FilterSC's thread here and watched some of his zerg bronze to masters videos and in them he setup metrics to measure your progress (6 min mark 35 drones, 8 min mark 55 drones, 10 min mark combined injection queens under 10 energy) as the videos goes he expands this.
I am curious with expansion how off are these metrics? I have tried them out a few times in games vs randoms unranked and it seem that focusing 100% on droning to 8 min I end up getting hit with something hard and simply cannot repel it even with an awesome macro. So long and short of it I'm wondering what should I be aiming for on the most basic levels while I reacquaint myself with SC2?
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Can someone please help me with zvt vs bio and a small number of hellbats? Basically i just ended up with double the units lost while having a bigger army, same upgrades, and 6 base to 3. this went on for 30 minutes and i am not sure what i am doing wrong tbh.
replay: http://db.tt/lcun6ldq
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Sorry if this has been answered.
I have a 2 questions.
When should I take my 3rd vs Terran. as of late they have been going 1 rax cc or cc first. I am kind of lost when to take my 3rd and or punish them.
second question
How should I handle Hellbats? I feel like I cant go ling/bling vs Bio because they add hellbats and they rip me to shreds. they force me to go roach and its not a play style i am used to, or really want to do most times vs terran unless they are going mech.
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Sorry if this has been answered
In ZvZ i find my self getting punished early by lings which either lose me the game or get me to far behind to were he gets out muta's and in done for, what should i do to survive these early attacks. I through down a spine and get a baneling nest but those never seem to work. what do you guys do?
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in any matchup is it worth getting overlord speed before ling speed to see whats going on in the opponent? i feel that with it it can better judge the composition I want and see for risky builds on his end, was thinking of using this for 15h/15p and taking gas at like 16
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On March 17 2013 07:13 Skidmeyer wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered
In ZvZ i find my self getting punished early by lings which either lose me the game or get me to far behind to were he gets out muta's and in done for, what should i do to survive these early attacks. I through down a spine and get a baneling nest but those never seem to work. what do you guys do?
Do you have a replay? It would be much easier to figure out the mistakes with one.
Do you keep an overlord in front of his base? The second he runs out with lings you should me morphing a few banes. Are you 100% sure you're getting your baneling nest on time? Don't get supply blocked. Also remember that zergling AI goes full retard if anything targets them, so they will have to manually target drones if they do a run by.
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On March 17 2013 07:30 Mvrio wrote:
in any matchup is it worth getting overlord speed before ling speed to see whats going on in the opponent? i feel that with it it can better judge the composition I want and see for risky builds on his end, was thinking of using this for 15h/15p and taking gas at like 16
In most situations, this seems like a waste of resources, for the simple fact that any information you need to obtain early in the game can be obtained by running lings up the enemy's ramp or controlling watch towers / patrolling lings around the map. The investment is definitely useful into the mid-game (past the 7 minute mark?) when scouting becomes more relevant. Obviously it's very situational, but I would say that in general, it's better to scout with lings and sacrifice an overlord at around 6:30 than to delay your speed and spend the extra gas. That's my 2 cents.
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There are big changes in the Zerg mindset and general game plan in HotS.
In WoL, Zerg had good reasons to play passively, since they had the stronger lategame. However, with the infestor nerfs and new broodlord counters, this is no longer true in HotS. In fact, Zerg seems to be the one forced to do damage before the lategame.
This is similar to what happens, for example, in TvP, with T having to to damage to P before P gets lategame deathball.
I'm not saying that changes like these can't be interesting and even refreshing, but there's one question that I don't really understand:
How exactly is Zerg supposed to do damage in the midgame??
I mean, Terran has to do damage TvP, but T has always been the harassing race and have great tools for that.
Zerg is not designed to harass neither has a strong midgame that allows for lots of pressure against sieged / walled enemies.
The best harassing unit Z have is muta I think, but don't phoenixes counter them hard and P should have them anyway if going air?? And widow mines also shut them down?
So what exactly has changed in the zerg arsenal that suddenly allows for that kind of pressure?
I'd really appreciate some good informed answers to this, with explanations refering to concrete gameplay.
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EPT
