EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 6
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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kiad
14 Posts
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On March 19 2013 03:46 kiad wrote: Hey guys. Did my placement matches and ended up in Gold league. In WoL I was a high Bronze league (on the verge of getting promoted to Silver). I'm finding it quite hard as I seem to be getting rushed in nearly every game (and getting completely outplayed also). I had been playing 14 hatch 14 pool but was generally killed before I could even get units out to defend. I've started going pool first to get out some early lings to scout, but I'm still getting overrun by about 6-7 mins in. Is there are surefire way of building a strong early defense where I can try out macro my opponents 1 base all in? This is happening against all races too. Your opening build order is most Likely fine. What I suspect is you are making units too early. The first few min of the game are essential for building up your economy. To hold off 1 base Allins you want to have slightly stonger economy than the guy on one base. Combine that economic edge with defenders advantage and you should be able to deal with most rushes. This guide from Liquid Sheth is a little old but is great for explaining the concept. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=219257 | ||
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kiad
14 Posts
On March 19 2013 04:03 MstrJinbo wrote: Your opening build order is most Likely fine. What I suspect is you are making units too early. The first few min of the game are essential for building up your economy. To hold off 1 base Allins you want to have slightly stonger economy than the guy on one base. Combine that economic edge with defenders advantage and you should be able to deal with most rushes. This guide from Liquid Sheth is a little old but is great for explaining the concept. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=219257 Awesome man, thanks!! I'm not too sure what the criteria is for getting dropped leagues, but hopefully I'll stay in Gold for a while. The best way to learn is to be beaten by good players. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On March 18 2013 13:55 Deign85 wrote: ZvZ is my worst match up. Cause every time I get into a ZvZ it turns into a ling bling micro fest and i just am terrible at it. If I could manage to get up to roaches without dying, my chances of winning evens out. Is there anything I can do to stave off the ling/bling all-in long enough to get roaches without sustaining heavy losses? I don't know what league you're in. In the lower leagues, you can get away with throwing down a spine and try blocking with queens without being behind economically. At higher level play, pretty sure you have to make your own banes to defend properly. You'll have to practice bane micro. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On March 19 2013 03:26 Requizen wrote: Watching some Life v Flash replays, it doesn't seem that Life transfers Drones to expansions, opting rather to just rally all his hatcheries to the new base and fill it that way. Is this standard now? I always thought transferring was important. Probably just to make it easier for them to keep the bases evened out. Also, if you think about it, this method keeps the base saturation rate more "continuous". | ||
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D u o
Canada381 Posts
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On March 19 2013 04:50 D u o wrote: I've been trying to get to roach hydra viper vs terran and I am having a lot of troubles in midgame due to timings. I think the best bet is to just do a standard ling/bling play while i tech, but when i try that i lose a lot of lings to mine play. i even try running a ling over top but people are doing a marine medivac mine timing where they just kite overtop of their mines and i cant wrap my lings around to let my bling connect, also if i run a ling ahead they just kill it before the mine has a chance to go off. I'm pretty lost when it comes to midgame ZvT. I know I want to do roach/hydra/viper in my endgame so that is already decided but I'm just lost about how to get there. Is there any safe way to get to late game anymore? I feel that their pressure comes too soon for me to do infestors as a reaction. If it's one thing that Ret, Stephano and Life taught us last weekend, it's that roach/hydra doesn't work in midgame ZvT. You'll get shredded by drop play. Stick to ling/bane/muta and add ultras/vipers once you hit hive. | ||
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D u o
Canada381 Posts
On March 19 2013 06:05 c0ldfusion wrote: If it's one thing that Ret, Stephano and Life taught us last weekend, it's that roach/hydra doesn't work in midgame ZvT. You'll get shredded by drop play. Stick to ling/bane/muta and add ultras/vipers once you hit hive. Ya but not every Terran is flash. I'm sure i can replace muta with hydra, the only problem is that the hydra upgrades are going to slow me down, and my attack upgrades would be divided. I was kind of curious if anyone has had any success doing some other things rather than ling/bling or mass roach with some hydra mid games | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On March 19 2013 06:15 D u o wrote: Ya but not every Terran is flash. I'm sure i can replace muta with hydra, the only problem is that the hydra upgrades are going to slow me down, and my attack upgrades would be divided. I was kind of curious if anyone has had any success doing some other things rather than ling/bling or mass roach with some hydra mid games Idra also runs ling/bane/mutas into ultras against NA terrans. | ||
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baba1
Canada355 Posts
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On March 19 2013 11:08 baba1 wrote: Why do people build their baneling nest at their natural in ZvZ? Just doing some minor sim city-ing. | ||
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Frankie Teardrop
United States74 Posts
On March 18 2013 09:20 Neverblink wrote: I've been doing 2 Base vs Protoss now. 14 Pool 16 Hatch 15 Overlord x2 Zerglings Extractor and then.. Queen Start second queen asap & Hatch will pop at same time so get the 3rd queen. 24 Overlord 31 Overlord 5:55 grab two gases. 6:00 x2 Evo Chambers Gas order goes First 100 into Speedling 2nd 100 into Lair next 250 into Range/Carpace upgrade. Game varies from this point so you got to read and react to what you are seeing. Thank you for responding! I have thought about 2-basing before, but I have always heard that it is important to be a base up on T and P. Do you only do this vs gateway openers, or against FFE as well? Also, do you take your 4th gas when lair finishes? And lastly, can 2 bases support hydra/swarm host reasonably well? I have found this to be my preferred unit comp vs stargate play since HotS launched. I usually mix in a few roaches to soak up some damage (though locusts take care of that for the most part) and vipers once I hit hive. I haven't had the chance to add a few ultralisks yet, but I would like to. I love the fact that I can use hydras now! Though, on their own, they are still underpowered for their cost (and for the time it takes to research their mandatory upgrades), I feel like the real "buff" to hydras in HotS is the fact that both swarm hosts and vipers synergize so well with them. It doesn't matter if they only have 80 hp if locusts and clouds can keep them from taking damage! I definitely look forward to experimenting with some 2-base builds now. Can anyone else offer any advice for reacting to gateway openings? Especially gateway pressure into 2-base stargate? | ||
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Reithan
United States360 Posts
That and continuously sniping my hatches. How do you deal with this? I've tried mutas, static defense, etc. The medivacs just outrun my mutas and drop enough to overwhelm my static defenses unless I can catch them basically right as they're leaving their base... | ||
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SoulSC2
New Zealand12 Posts
On March 19 2013 11:08 baba1 wrote: Why do people build their baneling nest at their natural in ZvZ? To create a choke at their natural. It's much easier defending behind a choke where there's only two narrow paths that banelings could come at you from. | ||
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Buddy168
United States157 Posts
I try it out and it works for a while but the issue I run into is that later on when late game comes around, my army is just outclassed and because of my heavy investment in ranged upgrades I can't seem to effectively tech into Ultras or BL because they use melee upgrades and not ranged. Should I just try and win in mid game and hope for the best? Abandon the style completely? Or just try hold them off until I can get the melee upgrades? I just REALLY want to work Swarm Hosts into my play in all match ups and so far the noyl effective thing that works is an adapted Swarm Host/hydra contain that mimics the BW Hydra Lurker contain. | ||
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HelloSon
United States456 Posts
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kernel_mode
Russian Federation5 Posts
Zerg replay link | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 19 2013 16:21 HelloSon wrote: How do I beat vr/HT/chargelot? Tried roach/hydra/infestor but got decimated by storms and the VRs cleaning EVERYTHING up. Roach/hydra/sh be better? Ah stop going roach/hydra. Trust me it's a bad composition. The composition that CRUSHES vr/ht/chargelot is and I shit you not swarmhost/hydra/ultra. Yes that is right swarmhost/hydra/ultra. Make sure you let locusts go in first (they will roll over chargelots and kill templar same with ultralisks) and then the hydra take care of void rays. Trust me it's a much better composition late game then roach/hydra anything  On March 19 2013 16:05 Buddy168 wrote: How effective would Roach/Hydra/Swarm Host be in a match up? I try it out and it works for a while but the issue I run into is that later on when late game comes around, my army is just outclassed and because of my heavy investment in ranged upgrades I can't seem to effectively tech into Ultras or BL because they use melee upgrades and not ranged. Should I just try and win in mid game and hope for the best? Abandon the style completely? Or just try hold them off until I can get the melee upgrades? I just REALLY want to work Swarm Hosts into my play in all match ups and so far the noyl effective thing that works is an adapted Swarm Host/hydra contain that mimics the BW Hydra Lurker contain. Ultras are fine just don't make more then 3-5 (you want them mainly to kill templar/colo). The late game composition as soon as your hive finishes throw down an ultra cavern and make some vipers. Vipers to abduct colo and with swarmhost/hydra/roach support it works really well. Don't bother with broodlords, ultras are better. I am not sure have you looked at my guide? If you have I go over swarmhost usage (and has replays) that I would highly recommend as I have loved the swarmhost since hots beta and got them to work in zvp when everyone else was still doing roach/hydra . | ||
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kernel_mode
Russian Federation5 Posts
On March 19 2013 18:04 kernel_mode wrote: Hi! I am a beginner at SC2 HTOS and I have a BIG problems when playing Zerg against AI (not playing with real people for the time being). I am obliterating things with Protoss, but I can't do a thing with Zerg. What am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance for your answers. Zerg replay link Managed to do this in 45 min (brood lord spam)... Still too long. Zerg win replay | ||
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