EPTOn April 30 2015 12:27 FlyingBeer wrote:
That's a passive opening. I'm looking for an aggressive opening.
That's a passive opening. I'm looking for an aggressive opening.
2 base roach that Life used vs herO?
The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 255
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
2 base roach that Life used vs herO? | ||
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Psychonian
United States2322 Posts
On April 30 2015 22:43 Ej_ wrote: you want to split your drones, target his morphing banelings with drones/lings and get spines. Cancel your gas once you know it's 10pool bane and dump all your minerals into defense. You should win the game if you can defend with 8-9 drones left and your 2nd base not dead. Honestly the most important part is just the drone splits. You shouldn't worry too much about the lost mining time as long as you force him to spend as many banes as possible to kill your workers or you could just pool first, but that's for the weak  i cant split, tbh. i have around 100 apm in gold league and every time i try to split it goes very poorly. it's really worse when i try to split drones than when I don't | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On May 01 2015 05:38 Psychonian wrote: i cant split, tbh. i have around 100 apm in gold league and every time i try to split it goes very poorly. it's really worse when i try to split drones than when I don't then just 15pool, it won't hurt you  | ||
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nerg
United States18 Posts
I'm trying to nail the 9-min Hive build but I'm wondering if attacking at 12:00 leaves me way too vulnerable for early waves. I have faith in mass hydra+roach vs protoss... but is 9-min hive the best approach to getting a bulky enough army vs toss defense? | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On May 02 2015 08:30 nerg wrote: My friend plays Protoss and I main Zerg. He challenged me to a game and I haven't really played seriously in months and my ego would rather not lose against this guy. I'm trying to nail the 9-min Hive build but I'm wondering if attacking at 12:00 leaves me way too vulnerable for early waves. I have faith in mass hydra+roach vs protoss... but is 9-min hive the best approach to getting a bulky enough army vs toss defense? The trigger to get fast hive or not will depend on the protoss third timing (if he takes one at all) 6-8 min third, go right to hive, max out on ling, roach hydra viper, into your follow up of your choice, most choose BL. if he stays on two base. stay on ling roach hydra, and get burrow with burrow movement so you can trade ok vs mass gateway armies. | ||
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straycat
230 Posts
So eh... a friend of mine... goes 15 pool all zvzs.... and loses like all the time to 10 pools. What is it he's supposed to do that makes fending off 10 pool so easy with 15 pool? He goes 15p16h17g16Q18OL. | ||
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velvex
Germany226 Posts
On May 03 2015 03:21 straycat wrote: So eh... a friend of mine... goes 15 pool all zvzs.... and loses like all the time to 10 pools. What is it he's supposed to do that makes fending off 10 pool so easy with 15 pool? He goes 15p16h17g16Q18OL. It would be more standard to make the overlord before the queen. That delays her a bit, but allows ... that friend of yours ... to turn all their larvae into zerglings the moment they see the lings coming. You should also save up larvae because if you don't, you'll lose all the extra safeness from the pool first if you recognise your opponent's attack late. Pool first indeed makes defending early pools much easier, but there's still plenty of room for fucking up, and you still need to practice the defence. | ||
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nerg
United States18 Posts
I've heard going Broodlord + Ultralisk picks off the Thors but it's literally one of the most vexing strategies for me to counter because I usually dont have the income to tech that hard and get enough troops in response. Of course, this could all just be failure on my part, but... essentially: what does Zerg do against a pack of Thor with air support? | ||
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Yumey
Sweden5 Posts
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FlyingBeer
United States262 Posts
On May 03 2015 06:06 nerg wrote: Another quick question: what the hell is the best approach to a 6+ Thor ball supported by Valkyries?? I've heard going Broodlord + Ultralisk picks off the Thors but it's literally one of the most vexing strategies for me to counter because I usually dont have the income to tech that hard and get enough troops in response. Of course, this could all just be failure on my part, but... essentially: what does Zerg do against a pack of Thor with air support? For the thors, any ground unit other than banelings is going to trade decently against them. For a low tech approach, mass roach is the best choice. If they're being defended by banshees, you need infestors both to fungal the banshees to reveal them and to drop infested terrans to kill them off. I assume that's what you mean by valkyries. So concave in with the roaches first then fungal the banshees after the thors have engaged the roaches. Hydras can also be useful, but it can be hard to get an overseer near which is why you need to fungal. If they get lots of tanks, you will not be able to engage without broodlords or swarm host cost effectively, but tanks move slowly so you can still exploit your mobility to buy time. | ||
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Ninigi
9 Posts
On May 03 2015 18:41 FlyingBeer wrote: For the thors, any ground unit other than banelings is going to trade decently against them. For a low tech approach, mass roach is the best choice. If they're being defended by banshees, you need infestors both to fungal the banshees to reveal them and to drop infested terrans to kill them off. I assume that's what you mean by valkyries. So concave in with the roaches first then fungal the banshees after the thors have engaged the roaches. Hydras can also be useful, but it can be hard to get an overseer near which is why you need to fungal. If they get lots of tanks, you will not be able to engage without broodlords or swarm host cost effectively, but tanks move slowly so you can still exploit your mobility to buy time. Might emphasize that a full-mech terran is currently hard to beat for "low level" players... It basically comes down to: Don't let them get to the point you can't engage head on any more and out-macro them (trade army for army and remax faster). I know the concept sounds kinda cheesy and if you're really able to outplay your opponent, there are other approaches, but I think up to maybe high plat (?) it's really the only way to deal with mech now  | ||
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smuckers26
4 Posts
So basically, just wondering what the meta is for every matchup. Should I still be doing fast 3 base in ZvP, for example? Muta/ling/baneling in ZvT? Is Infestor/Broodlord still the best late game composition for ZvP? | ||
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Archiatrus
Germany64 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/5954118 for anyone who is really interested. Notice the second fight, where I did not wait for my infestors. | ||
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EpidemicSC
United States70 Posts
On May 06 2015 14:45 smuckers26 wrote: I know this gets asked often, but I've looked around a lot and I can't really find anything that tells me what the general strategies for every ZvX matchup is. Not talking about build order, but also composition and what my goal should be during certain parts of the game. I quit in WoL as a high masters Zerg and I have very limited knowledge about anything to do with HOTS. So basically, just wondering what the meta is for every matchup. Should I still be doing fast 3 base in ZvP, for example? Muta/ling/baneling in ZvT? Is Infestor/Broodlord still the best late game composition for ZvP? Oddly enough, much of what you asked is still the case. Fast 3 base is still standard in ZvP, muta ling bane is still standard in ZvT, and infestor/broodlord is pretty much the go to lategame in ZvP again. Before the recent swarmhost patch, this wouldnt be the case but things have reverted.. Obviously the timings have all changed, but those are things you have to learn from experience. | ||
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smuckers26
4 Posts
On May 06 2015 16:19 EpidemicSC wrote: Oddly enough, much of what you asked is still the case. Fast 3 base is still standard in ZvP, muta ling bane is still standard in ZvT, and infestor/broodlord is pretty much the go to lategame in ZvP again. Before the recent swarmhost patch, this wouldnt be the case but things have reverted.. Obviously the timings have all changed, but those are things you have to learn from experience. Alright, thanks. I'm also wondering about the role of swarm hosts and vipers currently. When and why do I build them? | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On May 06 2015 16:32 smuckers26 wrote: Alright, thanks. I'm also wondering about the role of swarm hosts and vipers currently. When and why do I build them? SH are trash. Vipers excellent in ZvP if you're safe enough to get them out to supplement Roach Hydra if you're going that route. | ||
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FlyingBeer
United States262 Posts
On May 06 2015 14:45 smuckers26 wrote: I know this gets asked often, but I've looked around a lot and I can't really find anything that tells me what the general strategies for every ZvX matchup is. Not talking about build order, but also composition and what my goal should be during certain parts of the game. I quit in WoL as a high masters Zerg and I have very limited knowledge about anything to do with HOTS. So basically, just wondering what the meta is for every matchup. Should I still be doing fast 3 base in ZvP, for example? Muta/ling/baneling in ZvT? Is Infestor/Broodlord still the best late game composition for ZvP? Hydras are a common addition to roaches in ZvP and ZvZ midgame now. Corruptors are more rare, being replaced by vipers in ZvP. Broodlords are still strong, but so is ultra/hydra/infestor/viper as a late game army comp. The pure max roach build is less common now because of the mothership core, and the greater strength of stargate tech. Zergs are teching faster now in ZvP. Widow mines are a new problem. You have to use split lings to trigger them, and don't run your mutas into them. You'll need early banes or roaches for the popular 8 hellbat push. Tanks are less common in mech and thor/hellbat more common. | ||
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LordYama
United States370 Posts
On May 06 2015 16:09 Archiatrus wrote: Regarding vs mech in lower leagues: I found (for me) Ultra/Hydra/Infestor the best option (eg ~8-12 Ultra, ~8 infestor, rest Hydra). Ultra/Hydra in my main control group and the infestors in a second whereas they are burrowed and on follow to one of the Ultras. Before you attack wait a little bit, that you have a bank. Most terrans are passive enough to let you. Then attack move with main control group, switch to infestor, drop infested terrans as fast as possible on any tank you see (rapid fire) until the infestor energy is gone and send them home afterwards. The idea is that the tanks do NOT shot on the Hydras as long as possible. The Ultras and eggs are the punching bags. In most engagements only the infestors will survive but a good part of his army will be gone too, which is better than the usual meat grinder where you get like 1 tank for a maxed army. Overall, using Vipers would be better I guess, but since my controls are horrible (see the beginning: lower leagues) I usually lose them to Vikings before any cloud goes down, or even better: I get descent clouds, but my army is too late and the clouds are already gone again... http://ggtracker.com/matches/5954118 for anyone who is really interested. Notice the second fight, where I did not wait for my infestors. Thanks for posting this. Not sure if I can pull this off the way you did but it's good to see different ways to do it. It seems like playing against mech is tedious, though, win or lose. | ||
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BillTheNydusWorm
Sweden10 Posts
Thanks in advance. | ||
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rAyAAo
3 Posts
On May 07 2015 14:36 BillTheNydusWorm wrote: Hi, plat Zerg here. Ever since I saw Leenock and Jaedong do the fast ling ultra style against protoss at dreamhack shortly after hots release I have been in love with the build. Even though it got a weak midgame because you only got lings I simply adore the build. However I never manedged to replicate it myself. So are there any one here who made it work willing to share some key things about how to execute the playstyle? Thanks in advance. Thats build is very nice especially on Vani Research map is so strong. if u already know the build well the playstyle is about to dont let toss attack and always WIN TIME with lings going around and even if u loose some , but while u do that make sure u macro HARD and win time for ultras, if toss is going allin 2 base make sure to have roach warren and make some roaches + lings...ultras should pop out at 13-14 min with 2 - 2 and 3 - 3 on way spam many hatcheries u need much gas and as i said try to win time with lings cos on midgame if he attacks u are dead Well i am sure there is anyone who could explain u better this build, i only know that | ||
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