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On February 26 2014 18:17 KelsierSC wrote:
If I want to hit a timing vs collosus with Roach hydra when they have opened stargate, should I get hydra upgrades or just move out with like 8-9 hydras
a roach hydra timing before colossi is pretty useless without at least the range upgrade (so that hydras have the same range as unupgraded colossi). From how you've worded your post I don't think you mean the viper timing so I'll just suggest going for a hydra ling timing with range because roaches take up too much gas and make hydra comes later or in weaker numbers.
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Hello there,
I'm a plat zerg and I feel like I'm unable to win vs. Protoss. Obviously all-ins & pressure are hard to deal with, but the worst is I feel fighting against their big army ball : it just seems impossible to trade efficiently. It's just a one-sided massacre in favor of the P, even when he's behind in economy. For example : http://ggtracker.com/matches/4782802
Here I want to go for some ling/hydra opener. So :
At first I see what seems to be a gate expand, I 15h 16gas 16pool (albeit I forgot the pool for a bit). He does what seems to be a reactive and badly-made cannon rush which fails. At 5:40 I take a third, seeing he took his natural. At 6:30 I see gateways being added and no tech, so I prepare for an attack and put down a Roach Warren. He doesn't attack. At 10:30 I still see no expand or moving out, so I bring my ling/hydra to the front to see if I can pressure or gather informations. Finally he takes his third, I see he has a collossi and that he's at his third, so I make my lings stream in his main. I end up with 32 probe kills and take down his third. But he pushes, and still manages to win.
So what could I have done better? Obviously my macro is not top-notch and I made some silly mistakes (forgot the pool and zergling speed for a while), and I could have taken a waaaay better fight at the end, it was horrific because I wasn't looking at my army :'( But apart from that? Why did I lose? (also sorry for the bit of BM at the end, I was just feeling totally helpless.).
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Hey Zerg's.
I play Gold level and really want to improve but I don't have a solid plan on what to do. Now my question is: Is there a single build order I can use in all 3 match ups? Maybe something with early harassment to improve micro. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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On February 27 2014 02:09 Marcinko wrote:
Hey Zerg's.
I play Gold level and really want to improve but I don't have a solid plan on what to do. Now my question is: Is there a single build order I can use in all 3 match ups? Maybe something with early harassment to improve micro. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I'm also a gold zerg and here's what I've done recently. I was silver, then I started using the +1 speed roach build LowKo did a youtube video about (look for lowkotv on youtube and it's the one called easy zerg build I think). Having that set build order helped me get a little better at ensuring I inject properly and lined up everything for a timing push. Having that build perfected should get you a lot of wins at our level. If it doesn't kill my oponent I usually put up a 3rd and a spire as I'm pushing out for a muta swap to finish them off.
Now I'm working on a couple other builds and I seem to be progressing faster than before having that set build I did for a while.
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On February 27 2014 02:21 nunnner wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 02:09 Marcinko wrote:
Hey Zerg's.
I play Gold level and really want to improve but I don't have a solid plan on what to do. Now my question is: Is there a single build order I can use in all 3 match ups? Maybe something with early harassment to improve micro. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I'm also a gold zerg and here's what I've done recently. I was silver, then I started using the +1 speed roach build LowKo did a youtube video about (look for lowkotv on youtube and it's the one called easy zerg build I think). Having that set build order helped me get a little better at ensuring I inject properly and lined up everything for a timing push. Having that build perfected should get you a lot of wins at our level. If it doesn't kill my oponent I usually put up a 3rd and a spire as I'm pushing out for a muta swap to finish them off. Now I'm working on a couple other builds and I seem to be progressing faster than before having that set build I did for a while.
Thanks nunnner, I'll give it a shot.
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On February 26 2014 20:17 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 18:17 KelsierSC wrote:
If I want to hit a timing vs collosus with Roach hydra when they have opened stargate, should I get hydra upgrades or just move out with like 8-9 hydras a roach hydra timing before colossi is pretty useless without at least the range upgrade (so that hydras have the same range as unupgraded colossi). From how you've worded your post I don't think you mean the viper timing so I'll just suggest going for a hydra ling timing with range because roaches take up too much gas and make hydra comes later or in weaker numbers.
If you are going for a pre colossus hydra timing you get speed first and rush across the map with 8-12 hydras and lots of lings. Your speed should be hitting as you are hitting about half way across the map. You want speed because then you can micro around FF etc better. And also bail if it is a no go.
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On February 27 2014 02:09 Marcinko wrote:
Hey Zerg's.
I play Gold level and really want to improve but I don't have a solid plan on what to do. Now my question is: Is there a single build order I can use in all 3 match ups? Maybe something with early harassment to improve micro. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
When I started learning I decided to follow Day(9)'s advice and just focus on one match up. I found a ZvT build and copied it and focused all my intention. Any ZvP/ZvZ I just did something and didn't care. Once I had ZvT down I did ZvP etc.
Trying to learn three at once can often make for a slower learning process
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On February 27 2014 03:49 ThePastor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 02:09 Marcinko wrote:
Hey Zerg's.
I play Gold level and really want to improve but I don't have a solid plan on what to do. Now my question is: Is there a single build order I can use in all 3 match ups? Maybe something with early harassment to improve micro. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
When I started learning I decided to follow Day(9)'s advice and just focus on one match up. I found a ZvT build and copied it and focused all my intention. Any ZvP/ZvZ I just did something and didn't care. Once I had ZvT down I did ZvP etc. Trying to learn three at once can often make for a slower learning process
That’s pretty much why I want one versatile build. I basically want to work on my mechanics.
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What's the proper response to Terran floating to gold on Habitation Station? Replays appreciated. Thanks!
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On February 27 2014 12:17 memcpy wrote:
What's the proper response to Terran floating to gold on Habitation Station? Replays appreciated. Thanks!
as in natural/main/third?
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On February 27 2014 12:17 memcpy wrote:
What's the proper response to Terran floating to gold on Habitation Station? Replays appreciated. Thanks!
I'd like some ideas with this. Its happened a few games, I did win some games but that was just because the T player didn't really do anything to take advantage of it(fast timing push/crazy all-in)
I always move the opening overlord that direction just around their main to natural ramp(to check for rax/CC first and if its low ground CC or in main) then to move away safely and have the ovie close for sac.
It's kinda hard because I almost always open hatch/gas/pool vs T with 3rd around 6min.
Things I've tried:
Save larva instead of squeezing out those few extra drones and just rushing some zerglings there(still hatch first cause I didn't scout it in time). Planetary finished about with still half HP.
2base roach rush; banshee popped literally as I was attacking the depos + 1 tank + bunker a few marines held easily
Drone hard, take an earlier than normal 3rd(around 4:30)..that was a bad idea cause i just ended up getting rolled by a pretty good sized stim/hellion push 
Take the gold as my first expo.. HAHA! Oh tanks... you so mean!
I've ran my inital 4 lings to their original main (because they seem to always put their first depo there) in hopes to get a little supply block but they've already thrown down like 2-3 to block gold entrance so it wasn't really significant .
My best luck vs this has been to just 10 drone scout on this map. I know it really sucks but it did give me 2 free wins. The drone got in their "main" base right as I was about to put down my hatch and just pooled first instead and was able to kill most of their workers which kinda just gave me a huge lead once the bunker finished I lost my lings and the other he had a marine pop out and microed his last few scvs enough to kill the lings BUT both times I was just able to secure my normal 3rd with ease and just finish them around the 10-15 mins mark with a big bane/roach/ling.
I guess a simple pool first(12/14?) build on this map would do the trick most of the time.. but that's no fun!
There's gotta be a better way!
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On February 27 2014 13:04 ThePastor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 12:17 memcpy wrote:
What's the proper response to Terran floating to gold on Habitation Station? Replays appreciated. Thanks! as in natural/main/third?
Well with me it was floating their FIRST CC(main) to the gold from the start.
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On February 27 2014 13:31 Whitley wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 13:04 ThePastor wrote:On February 27 2014 12:17 memcpy wrote:
What's the proper response to Terran floating to gold on Habitation Station? Replays appreciated. Thanks! as in natural/main/third? Well with me it was floating their FIRST CC(main) to the gold from the start.
Got the replay?
His rax is going to be way slower then normal so you can either just go 14/14 and probably kill him. Or play a normal game, you should be way ahead. I do not see how floating your main could actually be worth while, specially since they changed mule mining ratio.
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When playing SH vs mech what is a good composition for my other units? I usually get a lot of spines, spores and queens but for the rest of my supply im not sure to build hydras / vipers / corruptors or what.
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On February 27 2014 03:37 ThePastor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 20:17 Karpfen wrote:On February 26 2014 18:17 KelsierSC wrote:
If I want to hit a timing vs collosus with Roach hydra when they have opened stargate, should I get hydra upgrades or just move out with like 8-9 hydras a roach hydra timing before colossi is pretty useless without at least the range upgrade (so that hydras have the same range as unupgraded colossi). From how you've worded your post I don't think you mean the viper timing so I'll just suggest going for a hydra ling timing with range because roaches take up too much gas and make hydra comes later or in weaker numbers. If you are going for a pre colossus hydra timing you get speed first and rush across the map with 8-12 hydras and lots of lings. Your speed should be hitting as you are hitting about half way across the map. You want speed because then you can micro around FF etc better. And also bail if it is a no go.
Jaedong disagress though and he is the one who popularized these hydraling timings during wcs finals. No amount of speed is going to make you jump over ffields but being sure that your hydra are attacking a colossus that is attacking them is massive (they'll have 1 colossus if they went for a sgate into robo opening and you do this only vs sgate).
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On February 27 2014 02:09 Marcinko wrote:
Hey Zerg's.
I play Gold level and really want to improve but I don't have a solid plan on what to do. Now my question is: Is there a single build order I can use in all 3 match ups? Maybe something with early harassment to improve micro. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
If you want to work on mechanics on the ladder. You basically do whatever you have been doing but focus on the mechanic you are trying to practice rather than trying to win the game. If also want to win, then I suggest using custom games against no opponent or a very easy AI instead to practice mechanics. For good builds you need good mechanics but it to practice mechanics you don't need a good build order.
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On February 28 2014 03:39 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 02:09 Marcinko wrote:
Hey Zerg's.
I play Gold level and really want to improve but I don't have a solid plan on what to do. Now my question is: Is there a single build order I can use in all 3 match ups? Maybe something with early harassment to improve micro. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
If you want to work on mechanics on the ladder. You basically do whatever you have been doing but focus on the mechanic you are trying to practice rather than trying to win the game. If also want to win, then I suggest using custom games against no opponent or a very easy AI instead to practice mechanics. For good builds you need good mechanics but it to practice mechanics you don't need a good build order.
Thanks for the tip/help.
The reason I want a build order is when watching the reply I'll be able to see my times improve and generally start to improve because I know what to do next. Am I right in thinking like this?
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On February 27 2014 12:17 memcpy wrote:
What's the proper response to Terran floating to gold on Habitation Station? Replays appreciated. Thanks!
I forget who I watched do it on their stream, Patreaus maybe? As soon as you scout it pull all your drones and attack his SCVs at that base, you should win with ok micro.
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On February 28 2014 01:49 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 03:37 ThePastor wrote:On February 26 2014 20:17 Karpfen wrote:On February 26 2014 18:17 KelsierSC wrote:
If I want to hit a timing vs collosus with Roach hydra when they have opened stargate, should I get hydra upgrades or just move out with like 8-9 hydras a roach hydra timing before colossi is pretty useless without at least the range upgrade (so that hydras have the same range as unupgraded colossi). From how you've worded your post I don't think you mean the viper timing so I'll just suggest going for a hydra ling timing with range because roaches take up too much gas and make hydra comes later or in weaker numbers. If you are going for a pre colossus hydra timing you get speed first and rush across the map with 8-12 hydras and lots of lings. Your speed should be hitting as you are hitting about half way across the map. You want speed because then you can micro around FF etc better. And also bail if it is a no go. Jaedong disagress though and he is the one who popularized these hydraling timings during wcs finals. No amount of speed is going to make you jump over ffields but being sure that your hydra are attacking a colossus that is attacking them is massive (they'll have 1 colossus if they went for a sgate into robo opening and you do this only vs sgate).
Wouldn't a PRE collosus timing be aimed to hit before colossus? Not when one is out?
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On February 28 2014 03:51 Marcinko wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 03:39 MstrJinbo wrote:On February 27 2014 02:09 Marcinko wrote:
Hey Zerg's.
I play Gold level and really want to improve but I don't have a solid plan on what to do. Now my question is: Is there a single build order I can use in all 3 match ups? Maybe something with early harassment to improve micro. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
If you want to work on mechanics on the ladder. You basically do whatever you have been doing but focus on the mechanic you are trying to practice rather than trying to win the game. If also want to win, then I suggest using custom games against no opponent or a very easy AI instead to practice mechanics. For good builds you need good mechanics but it to practice mechanics you don't need a good build order. Thanks for the tip/help. The reason I want a build order is when watching the reply I'll be able to see my times improve and generally start to improve because I know what to do next. Am I right in thinking like this?
Yeah. When I say you don't need a good build order I don't mean you don't have one at all. I'm just saying that you shouldn't overthink the build part, you don't need to be clever with timing or micro or even scouting for that matter. Slice the game up and take benchmarks. At 8 min I have x drones x amount of army. At 10 min I have Y drones and Y army. At 12 min and so forth. If you have lower than you expect, ask yourself why and see if it is a problem you need to fix. If during your benchmarking you find that you are failing because you are distracted by trying to win the game at the expense of practice, it's time to take your practice games off the ladder where you can focus better.
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EPT
