EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 153
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Malhavoc
Italy308 Posts
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zerge
Germany162 Posts
On February 28 2014 22:39 MstrJinbo wrote: Yeah. When I say you don't need a good build order I don't mean you don't have one at all. I'm just saying that you shouldn't overthink the build part, you don't need to be clever with timing or micro or even scouting for that matter. Slice the game up and take benchmarks. At 8 min I have x drones x amount of army. At 10 min I have Y drones and Y army. At 12 min and so forth. If you have lower than you expect, ask yourself why and see if it is a problem you need to fix. If during your benchmarking you find that you are failing because you are distracted by trying to win the game at the expense of practice, it's time to take your practice games off the ladder where you can focus better. I disagree, having a well thought out build and executing it almost perfectly in the first 5-15 minutes goes a long way. It can put you at the same level as a player with much better mechanics. For me it helped a lot to use this tool: sc2planner and polishing my builds over and over again. It will help you understand when to build things and how little things at the start have a large impact on the game later. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
I'm having a bit of trouble knowing exactly what to build these two comps. - Zealot/Immortal push that hits around 7-7:30 or so, off two bases (do I need banelings to hold this? Or heavy roach/ling/spines?) - Mass Air comps (like heavy VR, 3-4 Colossi, phoenixes) I feel like Corruptors are just... terrible in late game vs P, too little and they're useless, too many and the switch to a ground army just seems to murder me. Lastly, are Vipers necessary against Colossi in the late game? | ||
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
The problem is, normaly my opponents take their upgrades arround 6-7min and my are way to late to compete with their army. How do i match this upgrade disadvantage? In this replay i played my style vs a Roach Player. The only way i caught up was the sniping of his 2/2 what delayed it a lot. @11.30 http://drop.sc/375576 What can i normaly do against that? Its not always possible to snipe the upgrades. I am a Diamond player and maybe someone can give me some ZvZ advice. | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
On March 03 2014 04:59 EXRNaRa wrote: Hey guys! In ZvZ i am playing a Muta Style. If i see my opponent going for roaches i switch into 1/1 Range upgrades and roaches by myself after building arround 10-14 Mutas? The problem is, normaly my opponents take their upgrades arround 6-7min and my are way to late to compete with their army. How do i match this upgrade disadvantage? In this replay i played my style vs a Roach Player. The only way i caught up was the sniping of his 2/2 what delayed it a lot. @11.30 http://drop.sc/375576 What can i normaly do against that? Its not always possible to snipe the upgrades. I am a Diamond player and maybe someone can give me some ZvZ advice. if you have mutas on the map and he's on roach, it's impossible for him to move out unless he's just going 100% all in, in which case you just sit back, macro, add spines if necessary and defend the attack. otherwise he will need to fully tech into hydra or infestor before he can attack you. use this map control to take your third and get a better economy while using lings and mutas to try to pressure his third and prevent it from going up. as long as you position your army well, you have all the time you need to get your upgrades and tech. try to stay ahead by taking your 4th base, 5th etc ahead of his as well, keeping the pressure on him to make something happen, and just use superior positioning and production to defend once he gets aggressive also keep in mind that even if your upgrades are behind his, you can still hit a timing where you'll be even. for example, if he starts his 1/1 at 6:00 and you start yours at 7:00, that means that from 9:40 (when your 1/1 finishes) to 11:50 (when his 2/2 finishes) you'll be on even upgrades. that's a pretty long time! click his roaches to track his upgrades and look for engagements when you're even. also, consider using overseers to contaminate evolution chambers, it's a lot easier than sniping them finally, if you feel you're behind in the long game, burrowed roach play with a few into his third and a few into his main can at least draw him back and often get some drone kills too. obviously this won't work every time, but it's something that can really put pressure on a player who might otherwise be getting ready to move out on the map | ||
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On March 01 2014 21:10 Flonomenalz wrote: Hi, High Diamond Zerg here. I'm having a bit of trouble knowing exactly what to build these two comps. - Zealot/Immortal push that hits around 7-7:30 or so, off two bases (do I need banelings to hold this? Or heavy roach/ling/spines?) - Mass Air comps (like heavy VR, 3-4 Colossi, phoenixes) I feel like Corruptors are just... terrible in late game vs P, too little and they're useless, too many and the switch to a ground army just seems to murder me. Lastly, are Vipers necessary against Colossi in the late game? For the zealot immortal push - First part is scouting the build, should be pretty easy to scout as many times the robo is put down before there are any units that can shot up - I would recommend just using roach ling to fend off this push. - You will have to micro a lot more than you are probably used to, but as long as you avoid clumping all your roaches while the mothership core has a time warp or two available you should be fine. Just kite roaches as best you can making sure you do best to go between minerals and such for sim city Your other questions are far too vague to answer w/o any supplemental replays | ||
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mooseman1710
United States153 Posts
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On March 03 2014 14:52 mooseman1710 wrote: what is the best response to a double stargate quick third w lots of cannons? should i be hitting a ling hydra timing? You should be able to deny the third easily with speedlings only. You can pretty much go anywhere but muta from there. | ||
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Aelendis
Belgium892 Posts
On March 03 2014 12:22 Moosegills wrote: For the zealot immortal push - First part is scouting the build, should be pretty easy to scout as many times the robo is put down before there are any units that can shot up - I would recommend just using roach ling to fend off this push. - You will have to micro a lot more than you are probably used to, but as long as you avoid clumping all your roaches while the mothership core has a time warp or two available you should be fine. Just kite roaches as best you can making sure you do best to go between minerals and such for sim city Your other questions are far too vague to answer w/o any supplemental replays I feel that against zealot-imo push, you cand fend it with ling-bane. You can scout it will be zealot only (ie no sentries), if the protoss doesn't take gas at his natural. Be careful to have your lings attack their imos and bannelings on the zealots (obviously ^^ ). | ||
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b0ub0u
Canada445 Posts
Should I have gone mass speedlings only and kill him? | ||
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On March 03 2014 19:15 Aelendis wrote: I feel that against zealot-imo push, you cand fend it with ling-bane. You can scout it will be zealot only (ie no sentries), if the protoss doesn't take gas at his natural. Be careful to have your lings attack their imos and bannelings on the zealots (obviously ^^ ). I'm not saying you can't use ling bane, I'm just saying I wouldn't recommend it - for a couple of reasons - The better protoss opponent you play, using ling bane to hold of this push will get exponentially worse as you play opponents who are capable of splitting zealots properly - Secondly, if you make one mistake using this style you are going to lose. If you make any micro mistake with your banelings, you will lose. If you don't have enough banelings morphed or any at all when they are at a crucial part of your base, often times there's no way to stall for 20 seconds w/o taking game losing damage whether it being in losing most of your army or drones etc.. | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
in smaller fights and at the beginning just speedlings work well to bait ff and keep him back. then gradually add roaches and zerglings. the ultimate unit is the hydra。the hydra just shuts this down while he can trade pretty long vs roach ling | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
On March 01 2014 02:23 Malhavoc wrote: I play random, and in a recent PvZ I was destoyed, despite doing well in macro, by pure ling bling and overlord drops. No muta. I remember this style being used in the past. Why did it go out of style? Is it worth learning in my ZvP, instead of other builds like roach hydra or ling muta? I'm gonna say no. I played this style (with infestors) back in WoL at diamond level, and learned that it's not so much a style as it is a "build" . It can work very well against gateway all-ins and against colossus builds, but simply dies hard against archons and air, both of which are very common now. In the game you played against it, what happened? | ||
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Whitley
United States238 Posts
Just wanna say thanks to everyone who's been involved this thread! | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
On February 19 2014 03:36 ThePastor wrote: I have been having fairly good success with Soulkey's opening. He goes for lair before +1/+1 ups. Sometimes delaying them substantially depending on what happens. Check out his matches from proleague racewars. I know this was a couple pages ago, but that defense and counter by Soulkey in game 1 was so sick. SO SICK. Whenthe reaper/hellion attack hit i thought he was boned. | ||
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mooseman1710
United States153 Posts
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On March 01 2014 21:10 Flonomenalz wrote: Hi, High Diamond Zerg here. I'm having a bit of trouble knowing exactly what to build these two comps. - Zealot/Immortal push that hits around 7-7:30 or so, off two bases (do I need banelings to hold this? Or heavy roach/ling/spines?) - Mass Air comps (like heavy VR, 3-4 Colossi, phoenixes) I feel like Corruptors are just... terrible in late game vs P, too little and they're useless, too many and the switch to a ground army just seems to murder me. Lastly, are Vipers necessary against Colossi in the late game? When I scout the protoss having only a single gas in the main I know naniwa's zealot immortal all-in is coming. At that point I just keep massing queens while getting a roach warren. It's pretty easy to hold and queens do well against the immortal sentry follow up he might go for. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
I just can't understand those timings, or maybe I just don't want to understand them because they have so many fucking powerful allin it's ridiculous. | ||
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Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
I go 15hatch but I scout every zvp. So I know what he's doing right as i place ym hatch down (allowing me to cancel/wait before building). Obviously my pool is going to be on 15 supply then with about 300 minerals in bank. Is that still winnable? If so, how? His zealots are in my base before I can spawn a spine, queen or lings so I'm really clueless at the moment. | ||
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DjayEl
France252 Posts
On March 05 2014 23:22 Thalandros wrote: Alright, so I'm high diamond and I've completely lost it vs proxy 2 gate. Half the protoss players are doing it and it's actually doing my head in. I go 15hatch but I scout every zvp. So I know what he's doing right as i place ym hatch down (allowing me to cancel/wait before building). Obviously my pool is going to be on 15 supply then with about 300 minerals in bank. Is that still winnable? If so, how? His zealots are in my base before I can spawn a spine, queen or lings so I'm really clueless at the moment. If the Protoss plays it well, he will kill you no matter what with his proxy 2 gate if you hatch first. Hatching first is a metagame call and now Protosses are responding by proxy gates (at least on the ladder), but it's a build older loss if you open pool first. If you scout with your drone anyways (at 10), then you should know he is doing this proxy thing at about 15 supply just before hitting 200 minerals, so you can always put your pool, then defend it easily. | ||
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