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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
On February 23 2014 04:33 coL.hendralisk wrote: Make 2 queens with your ling speed, and 2 more at your natural consecutively. should be ezpz what is the proper response vs gas first hellions? get ling speed and delay a 3rd? or.. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 23 2014 01:55 TRaFFiC wrote: Hey all If you target a unit with a control group that includes several eggs, do they hatch and move to that spot you targeted even when the unit dies? If you command an egg to attack a unit and that unit dies the rally point dissapears and they will go to the default rally point | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 23 2014 07:11 vonKlaust II wrote: Haiku: Protoss, the reaper Zerg tears fall like autumn rain Give me advice please I'm so sad. Protoss OP. I couldn't defeat them is my life depended on it. Are there any simple rules of thumbs on how to play this matchup? In ZvZ and ZvT I can wing it pretty successfully, but ZvP feels so fragile. Most of the time I just die whenever they decide to attack, and if I survive, they trade better than me and crush me with the next push. I'm thinking about just just joining the dark side and cheese 100% in this matchup... Are there any builds I can do to bring the hurt to them, without necessarily being an all-in? Defending doesn't seem to cut it for me versus the devil spawn called protoss... I'm in Gold btw. Former plat/dia player. Have you tried life's aggressive ZvP style? Focuses on solid macro play while not allowing the protoss to just mass and then come attack you. http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-660-dreamhack-winter-gamez/ | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 23 2014 11:20 Joedaddy wrote: what is the proper response vs gas first hellions? get ling speed and delay a 3rd? or.. Open standard and get a normal third. Make sure you are including ling speed in your build. Ensure that you are prepared to put a queen on the ramp to defend. Here is a replay of me playing against an early gas / hellion player. He went for drops and you will see how I efficiently defend against the hellions and banshees (hellion drops included). I wouldn't watch past the early game as I throw away an easy win, was one of those 'o shit retard' moments. http://drop.sc/374507 | ||
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CamoDaz
United Kingdom19 Posts
Been looking for a gasless ZvZ opener and I came across an old build from August last year which was used by the top KR Zerg at the time. Is this build still viable at all on some maps? At 24 supply it notes to build two overlords but could one not be skipped along with the 4th queen to get a fast roach warren. It seems pretty risky to leave a roach warren pretty late: 9 Overlord 15 Spawning Pool 16 Hatchery 15 Overlord 15 Queen 17 2x Zergling 22 Queen 3rd & 4th Queen ASAP 24 2x Overlord 37 Spine Crawler 44 Double Gas At Naturla 42 Overlord 44 Roachwarren & Double Evo Chamber Thanks in advance | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 24 2014 01:39 CamoDaz wrote: Hey guys, Been looking for a gasless ZvZ opener and I came across an old build from August last year which was used by the top KR Zerg at the time. Is this build still viable at all on some maps? At 24 supply it notes to build two overlords but could one not be skipped along with the 4th queen to get a fast roach warren. It seems pretty risky to leave a roach warren pretty late: 9 Overlord 15 Spawning Pool 16 Hatchery 15 Overlord 15 Queen 17 2x Zergling 22 Queen 3rd & 4th Queen ASAP 24 2x Overlord 37 Spine Crawler 44 Double Gas At Naturla 42 Overlord 44 Roachwarren & Double Evo Chamber Thanks in advance You could skip the fourth queen, however it is dependant on what you scout. If he is gasless and could be going ling pressure you want the fourth queen. If he is going into muta's you will want the fourth queen. If he is going roaches or gasless skip it and skip the spine as well. I am not sure about the double overlord I never do a double overlord then. Apart from that it looks about right, although I generally work of timers not supply count so I cannot give a definite answer on the order sorry. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
so frustrating. | ||
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Whitley
United States238 Posts
On February 24 2014 07:55 Joedaddy wrote: I swear... the people im playing just dont stop making freaking hellions so frustrating. I used to have some issues with this as well. Now a days I haven't had any issues defending 4/6/8 of them in the first 5-9 mins of the game even while taking my 3rd at around 5:45-6:00. Basically right after my pool pops (15hatch/16gas/16pool/17ovie vs T is my opening) I build 4 lings(only 4) and I defend the reaper until my queens pop then go right to their ramp with those lings. This will immediately clear up a few things. Is there a reactor on the rax? Is there a factory anywhere in vison(they normally build it rather close to the rax)? is there an extra CC in vision? Mostly likely the answers to most of these questions are yes. If not... its time to sac that ovie a little earlier than normally. At the time when 4 hellions start roaming the map you should have your 4 queens and 3 of them at the natural with 1-2 creep tumors already down. Honestly you should have no issue scaring off the hellions with your 2 queens/ maybe pull the 3rd up a little to help between injects. Also remember that 1 queen on the ramp will block hellions from getting through to your main just in case you need to pull drones from you natural. Creep spread is the number one key here. that way when the hellions come onto the creep you can try to catch them with lings.. If all is going as planned and you scout that they are making more than 4-8 hellions early on, you should really think about putting your 2 evos and 1spine at the front of your natural(two evos should be normal) to make a sort of choke and maybe even throwing out a few roaches. Hellions won't win against roaches unless you have done something crazy. Also, dont waste your lings on hellions. Run at them, scare them away and micro back to your queens.. Dont chase them all over the map letting them get free shots at you when they get ahead. I hope this helps. If you'd like post a replay maybe we can look and see whats happening or hit me up in game gagoom//408 and we can talk more. I know im only top gold at the moment and have some issues with my game as well but hellions are the least of my problems :D GL HF! | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 24 2014 08:23 Whitley wrote: I used to have some issues with this as well. Now a days I haven't had any issues defending 4/6/8 of them in the first 5-9 mins of the game even while taking my 3rd at around 5:45-6:00. Basically right after my pool pops (15hatch/16gas/16pool/17ovie vs T is my opening) I build 4 lings(only 4) and I defend the reaper until my queens pop then go right to their ramp with those lings. This will immediately clear up a few things. Is there a reactor on the rax? Is there a factory anywhere in vison(they normally build it rather close to the rax)? is there an extra CC in vision? Mostly likely the answers to most of these questions are yes. If not... its time to sac that ovie a little earlier than normally. At the time when 4 hellions start roaming the map you should have your 4 queens and 3 of them at the natural with 1-2 creep tumors already down. Honestly you should have no issue scaring off the hellions with your 2 queens/ maybe pull the 3rd up a little to help between injects. Also remember that 1 queen on the ramp will block hellions from getting through to your main just in case you need to pull drones from you natural. Creep spread is the number one key here. that way when the hellions come onto the creep you can try to catch them with lings.. If all is going as planned and you scout that they are making more than 4-8 hellions early on, you should really think about putting your 2 evos and 1spine at the front of your natural(two evos should be normal) to make a sort of choke and maybe even throwing out a few roaches. Hellions won't win against roaches unless you have done something crazy. Also, dont waste your lings on hellions. Run at them, scare them away and micro back to your queens.. Dont chase them all over the map letting them get free shots at you when they get ahead. I hope this helps. If you'd like post a replay maybe we can look and see whats happening or hit me up in game gagoom//408 and we can talk more. I know im only top gold at the moment and have some issues with my game as well but hellions are the least of my problems :D GL HF! Very good advice. Remember, it is not your job to kill the hellions, it is just to prevent them doing damage. If you can ward them off with queens/zerglings while droning you are doing it right! Do not make it your priority to kill them, when you do that you will often end sacrificing to much larvae to kill them. Instead just focus on denying them the ability to do damage. | ||
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bond1
38 Posts
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 24 2014 10:41 bond1 wrote: I recently have started playing HotS after leaving SC2 back towards the end of WoL. I'm having a hard time finding help with builds. There isn't really a lot of guides out there right now. Can anyone help me out with what I should be doing? Did you try Blade's guide to zerg? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=428262 | ||
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bond1
38 Posts
On February 24 2014 11:52 ThePastor wrote: Did you try Blade's guide to zerg? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=428262 I looked at it some. Is it still considered up to date? Also, I'd be interested in any SH builds that are considered good if they are out there. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 24 2014 12:40 bond1 wrote: I looked at it some. Is it still considered up to date? Also, I'd be interested in any SH builds that are considered good if they are out there. Most of them are still fine. For the most up to date builds I would recommend checking out proleague (VoD's are free on you tube) or GSL (vod access = $). To be honest VoD access to gsl is totally worth it for the ability to relook up matches and copy builds of the pros. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
On February 24 2014 13:31 ThePastor wrote: Most of them are still fine. For the most up to date builds I would recommend checking out proleague (VoD's are free on you tube) or GSL (vod access = $). To be honest VoD access to gsl is totally worth it for the ability to relook up matches and copy builds of the pros. Is there a particular YouTube channel that you recommend or is it basically a search free-for-all? | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 24 2014 16:31 Mjolnir wrote: Is there a particular YouTube channel that you recommend or is it basically a search free-for-all? Proleague - http://www.youtube.com/user/ESportsTV GSL - http://www.twitch.tv/gsl IEM - http://www.twitch.tv/esltv_sc2/ WCS AM - http://www.twitch.tv/esltv_sc2/ WCS EU - http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/WCS Europe http://clash.gg/vods/ - Spoiler free site | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Training to become a random player so I'm focusing on my Zerg right now (Protoss is main). I find it hard to defend early attacks without falling behind because of the larva mechanic.. basically they can keep making workers the whole time but I am limited by my larva that can only be drones or combat units but not both. Is it smart to focus on queens/spines for early defense then to preserve larva? Or do I just need to expand faster/take a macro hatch? My PvZ is actually really strong becuase I'm constantly harassing and forcing my opponent to make Roaches instead of units. Now I feel like I'm on the receiving end of it and I'm not sure what to do.. Thanks!~ | ||
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Whitley
United States238 Posts
On February 25 2014 00:33 DinoMight wrote: Hi all, Training to become a random player so I'm focusing on my Zerg right now (Protoss is main). I find it hard to defend early attacks without falling behind because of the larva mechanic.. basically they can keep making workers the whole time but I am limited by my larva that can only be drones or combat units but not both. Is it smart to focus on queens/spines for early defense then to preserve larva? Or do I just need to expand faster/take a macro hatch? My PvZ is actually really strong becuase I'm constantly harassing and forcing my opponent to make Roaches instead of units. Now I feel like I'm on the receiving end of it and I'm not sure what to do.. Thanks!~ Hey! Welcome to the swarm  Since I've returned to 1v1ing, vs T and P I play a "safe" opening with 2hatch speed and getting 4 queens while taking my 3rd base around 6 mins. One of the biggest issues I used to have is simply over droning way to hard in the early game. For instance thinking that I "NEEDED" 24 drones on minerals and 6 per base on gas or I was going to be massively behind and having little to no units. Now that I've booted that idea I've become WAY more efficient and don't have huge problems(although I get caught sometimes) vs the early aggression. Generally I make sure to get 16 on minerals and 3 on gas at my main. Then try to get saturated at my natural quickly while trying really hard to scout and get that creep on! I like to take my 3rd and 4th gas at the natural depending on what I'm scouting. I see a lot of pros do this, I suppose its to not disturb the 16 drones grinding at the main. Right around 5-7 mins you really need to have an idea of what your opponent is doing. I think the meta is mostly all races opening with a super early expand but you still need to know what type of buildings are being produced and react as best as you can. I always keep in mind that vsP if you see a gateway expand instead of FFE there's a really good chance that they will poke you a little with a MSC and maybe a few units(1 Zeal, 1 Stalker I see often). So when I see gateway expand I may add an extra queen and a few extra zerglings. If your saving your 3rd by having to put down 2 spines and 1 spore and a few extra lings or even pulling all your queens to defend(just get em back to work as soon as you feel safe) and their committing more than just a few units to an early attack then your still ahead(as long as they don't do some terrible damage), the amount of resources they are investing in units that early is going to set back their econ/tech. I've also really got into the habit of adding my macro hatch just after I'm getting my 3rd mostly saturated and my evos started on their tech path which really helps me a lot vs things like bio/mine or big gateway pushes when they really start being aggressive around the 8-11 min mark(them clearing creep/trying to force units instead of drones/pick off queens/harass in general. I'm learning just how important hitting your injects and spreading creep is as a part of zerg play and if we miss either of them often we can easily get boned. It really boils down to scouting(sacing overlords/having lings at their front doors/controlling the towers/map) you have to try to determine if they are simply apply pressure(you need less units) or if they are straight up 2 base and trying to end the game(you need more units/defensive structures). If they are trying to end the game then you need units and not drones because either you die with a ton of useless drones or they lose their army with no future as your'e ahead because once armies are dead you can pop 15 drones at once while their building maybe 2-3 at a time on 2 bases and trying to get back in it(if they don't just leave). Hope this helps! | ||
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
The terran just kept making reapers of the 2 rax and kept kiting and killing my lings and queens. | ||
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Whitley
United States238 Posts
On February 25 2014 03:11 Roynalf wrote: How I can deal with 2 rax reapers, should I just delay my ling speed and instead throw down roach warren? The terran just kept making reapers of the 2 rax and kept kiting and killing my lings and queens. I wouldn't skip speed. While roaches are very effective vs reapers its a huge econ dump that early unless your planning some sort of roach all-in and they'll never catch reapers off creep and only on creep if he just doesn't control them well. Dont "chase" the reapers with slow lings or queens off creep ever. Simply force them off the creep and then run back to your hatch, I add my 3rd/4th queen soon after I start speed and only make about 4 lings initially. If you see them committing to reapers, more than 2? get a few more lings just to keep them outta your mineral line and maybe add 1 spine in each of your mineral line this will make their reapers mostly useless until speed kicks in and the reapers are dead if they try to get gutsy. | ||
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
On February 25 2014 03:28 Whitley wrote: I wouldn't skip speed. While roaches are very effective vs reapers its a huge econ dump that early unless your planning some sort of roach all-in and they'll never catch reapers off creep and only on creep if he just doesn't control them well. Dont "chase" the reapers with slow lings or queens off creep ever. Simply force them off the creep and then run back to your hatch, I add my 3rd/4th queen soon after I start speed and only make about 4 lings initially. If you see them committing to reapers, more than 2? get a few more lings just to keep them outta your mineral line and maybe add 1 spine in each of your mineral line this will make their reapers mostly useless until speed kicks in and the reapers are dead if they try to get gutsy. I am talking large numbers like from 4 to 8 reapers, they can just dive for queens and kill them and then retreat and heal | ||
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