EPTwould the good old dimaga mass ling bling still work ZVP?
The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 149
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crazyweasel
607 Posts
would the good old dimaga mass ling bling still work ZVP? | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On February 20 2014 23:51 crazyweasel wrote: your though on BLing drops in HOts? would the good old dimaga mass ling bling still work ZVP? The idea behind dropping banelings is still pretty valid, but all the builds used back then are super out of date and don't work anymore. For instance 14/14 speed expands were a pretty standard opener back then. and we haven't had a pro Zerg show us bane drops in the current meta, so I honestly have no idea what it would look like. It's not so simple as "get banelings and drop them" as wherever build//strategy needs to have answers for the things Protoss commonly do. | ||
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NFxJehuty
United Kingdom58 Posts
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zerge
Germany162 Posts
On February 20 2014 23:36 MstrJinbo wrote: What are people's thoughts on zvt openings on Daedalus Point? I generally hatch first with quick speed. The problem I'm hitting is when terrans go Rax/fact expand and get really fast reactor hellions. Then they will try diving their hellions into the main past my defenses in the natural. At that time I have an unfinished roach warren and three queens and (could potentially have a spine crawler up as well) but will still lose a lot of drones as my queens can't keep the hellions out. I drone scout so I see the factory and even if if the drone doesn't see it my overlord scouts the late expo. So I can scout it ahead of time and have a few min to prepare for it and react, but I'm unsure what the best reaction would be. If you drone scout there is no reason to get speed and roaches that is very uneconomic, speedling openers are just to deflect reapers you can delay your gas otherwise. Against hellions before expand just get a spine in the natural mineral line, make queens and drones and block the main ramp when he runs in. You will loose drones for killing his hellions but since you make drones the whole time and dont use larvae on units you will be ahaed in econemy anyways and in a nice defensive spot with multiple queens. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 20 2014 23:36 MstrJinbo wrote: What are people's thoughts on zvt openings on Daedalus Point? I generally hatch first with quick speed. The problem I'm hitting is when terrans go Rax/fact expand and get really fast reactor hellions. Then they will try diving their hellions into the main past my defenses in the natural. At that time I have an unfinished roach warren and three queens and (could potentially have a spine crawler up as well) but will still lose a lot of drones as my queens can't keep the hellions out. I drone scout so I see the factory and even if if the drone doesn't see it my overlord scouts the late expo. So I can scout it ahead of time and have a few min to prepare for it and react, but I'm unsure what the best reaction would be. If it hits you before you are prepared throw your natural queen in the middle of the ramp leading to your main. One queen will block hellions from going through. Send your drones from your natural to your main. Make units, deal with it, you will be ahead providing you do not lose a heap. I do not bother going roaches as they are generally never up and it costs you to much trying to get the gas to make them, just go speed lings / queens for defence. Remember that Terran takes a massive eco hit going fast hellions, if he does no damage you will be massively ahead, in fact unless he kills 10+ drones you will probably still be ahead. The other option is going gasless and relying on more queens, this can be very risky though. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 20 2014 23:51 crazyweasel wrote: your though on BLing drops in HOts? would the good old dimaga mass ling bling still work ZVP? Bling drops would work against a non stargate player. Mass drops on an army is not effective anymore because back in WoL they made it that units drop outside the forcefields not inside, so your banes will drop outside of their ring of FF and you will lose. Ling/bling infestor can still work, however if the player is expecting it and just stays at home and plays defensive until he has 6 odd colossus then you will lose. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 20 2014 22:20 Ryndika wrote: ZvZ http://drop.sc/374483 Had I scouted his 3rd with my greedy mutatech. Should I've gone lingattack on his 3rd? His third was not early. You would have been better to take a faster third. You delay your third quite a lot, once you hit full sat on both bases you should be grabbing a third (around the 7 minute mark). After taking it make lings, use them to pressure him in case he is being overly greedy and also defend against any pressures he puts on. To be honest if you had attacked you wouldn't have cancelled it, he had 4 queens there with roaches about to come out and lings available. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On February 21 2014 04:22 ThePastor wrote: If it hits you before you are prepared throw your natural queen in the middle of the ramp leading to your main. One queen will block hellions from going through. Send your drones from your natural to your main. Make units, deal with it, you will be ahead providing you do not lose a heap. I do not bother going roaches as they are generally never up and it costs you to much trying to get the gas to make them, just go speed lings / queens for defence. Remember that Terran takes a massive eco hit going fast hellions, if he does no damage you will be massively ahead, in fact unless he kills 10+ drones you will probably still be ahead. The other option is going gasless and relying on more queens, this can be very risky though. You can keep hellions out with a single queen? I thought you needed two? In any case I do have three so retreating drones to the main and blocking the ramp with queens seems workable, and I think I'll go with that. | ||
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 21 2014 06:37 MstrJinbo wrote: You can keep hellions out with a single queen? I thought you needed two? In any case I do have three so retreating drones to the main and blocking the ramp with queens seems workable, and I think I'll go with that. You need 2 queens for zerglings/banelings/marines. Anything bigger then that you can block with a single queen. http://drop.sc/374507 here is an example of me dealing with fast hellions by blocking with a single queen. He ends up droping in the main lol. I end up ahead after the early game but made a massive screw up costing me a game but that isn't what this discussion is about! | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On February 21 2014 08:12 ThePastor wrote: You need 2 queens for zerglings/banelings/marines. Anything bigger then that you can block with a single queen. http://drop.sc/374507 here is an example of me dealing with fast hellions by blocking with a single queen. He ends up droping in the main lol. I end up ahead after the early game but made a massive screw up costing me a game but that isn't what this discussion is about! I played this game since 2010, still learning new things it would seem. Thanks for the tip. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
I'm really really really struggling vs early aggression. not stuff like 2 rax and reaper into hellion so much, but gas first hellions and heavy 1 base. I dont know when to drone and when to make units etc. I either make to many units... or to many drones. any advice? | ||
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Hiberna
Lithuania5 Posts
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ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On February 22 2014 16:34 Hiberna wrote: I dunno if this is the right place to ask. But is there some website that i could go to that has plenty of zerg build orders that are up to date? I tried googling and searching here but found very little. I do not know of anyone that constantly tries to update a zerg build order list. Sounds like a good website blog or something though! The best bet is to download replay packs from tournaments (iem/dreamhacks etc) and make your own. | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On February 22 2014 12:54 Joedaddy wrote: ZvT--- I'm really really really struggling vs early aggression. not stuff like 2 rax and reaper into hellion so much, but gas first hellions and heavy 1 base. I dont know when to drone and when to make units etc. I either make to many units... or to many drones. any advice? Do you have any replays? It would make it a lot easier. Generally tho, if they don't take a natural I think I'd stop droning around 2 base mineral saturation, make extra queens, suicide overlords to see if it's a heavy rax pressure, cloaked banshee or whatever, then get bane nest and mass lings if bio pressure otherwise lair, spores. I think I've met a total of one terran who didn't take a quick natural in the last 6 months tho so it's pretty hard for me to give specific advice. Terran 1-base builds are horrible against zerg tho so as long as you don't panic and just keep making queens and then only mass lings once you reach ~30-35 drones you should be fine against most stuff even if you don't scout it. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
If you target a unit with a control group that includes several eggs, do they hatch and move to that spot you targeted even when the unit dies? | ||
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coL.hendralisk
Zimbabwe1756 Posts
On February 22 2014 12:54 Joedaddy wrote: ZvT--- I'm really really really struggling vs early aggression. not stuff like 2 rax and reaper into hellion so much, but gas first hellions and heavy 1 base. I dont know when to drone and when to make units etc. I either make to many units... or to many drones. any advice? Make 2 queens with your ling speed, and 2 more at your natural consecutively. should be ezpz | ||
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Natureboy
Sweden85 Posts
Protoss, the reaper Zerg tears fall like autumn rain Give me advice please I'm so sad. Protoss OP. I couldn't defeat them is my life depended on it. Are there any simple rules of thumbs on how to play this matchup? In ZvZ and ZvT I can wing it pretty successfully, but ZvP feels so fragile. Most of the time I just die whenever they decide to attack, and if I survive, they trade better than me and crush me with the next push. I'm thinking about just just joining the dark side and cheese 100% in this matchup... Are there any builds I can do to bring the hurt to them, without necessarily being an all-in? Defending doesn't seem to cut it for me versus the devil spawn called protoss... I'm in Gold btw. Former plat/dia player. | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
On February 23 2014 07:11 vonKlaust II wrote: Haiku: Protoss, the reaper Zerg tears fall like autumn rain Give me advice please I'm so sad. Protoss OP. I couldn't defeat them is my life depended on it. Are there any simple rules of thumbs on how to play this matchup? In ZvZ and ZvT I can wing it pretty successfully, but ZvP feels so fragile. Most of the time I just die whenever they decide to attack, and if I survive, they trade better than me and crush me with the next push. I'm thinking about just just joining the dark side and cheese 100% in this matchup... Are there any builds I can do to bring the hurt to them, without necessarily being an all-in? Defending doesn't seem to cut it for me versus the devil spawn called protoss... I'm in Gold btw. Former plat/dia player. So it is my humble opinion that getting aggressive early/cheesing the protoss player is an incorrect way to play this matchup. The early defense that Protoss has against Zerg is way too powerful. You have to play defensive early game. After this...well it is hard to tell you what to do when you say that most of the time you just die when they decide to attack. I would suggest looking at some replays (IEM just posted a whole replay pack of the entire tournament) and just copying some build orders. Furthermore post some replays in this thread and i'm sure a lot of people would give you some advice. | ||
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Joneleth
Denmark90 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On February 23 2014 01:55 TRaFFiC wrote: Hey all If you target a unit with a control group that includes several eggs, do they hatch and move to that spot you targeted even when the unit dies? I'd think that they do like a hatched unit far away. If you kill it before the faraway unit get's there, it'll just stop in place. Which is why should always shift-give an attack move after a targeted attack command when you hotkey eggs.  | ||
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