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And thank you I know Scarlett. My turn
I'm quite confused. Here's a small little portion of my previous post: "control groups is quite acceptable. Absolutely nothing wrong with it......you shouldn't feel the need to change that"
This entire post I'm talking directly to the OP, not to you. The only reason I even provided a quote from you was so the OP understands that there is in fact absolutely nothing wrong with later Spire/Bling nest, using 2 hotkeys, or the entire Army, etc....
You also write:
"He hotkeys the units when they're still inside the eggs which means you don't have to "click" on the minimap once the units are out. Saves time too."
I already said the same exact thing in my previous post man: "Sure, you should already have them hotkeyed before hand so you don't need to use the entire Army button, but when macro/micro slips it saves you time. You can hotkey/control group the units after they've already started moving out (again, this is quicker)."
Obviously the only way to have them hotkeyed before hand so you don't have to use the entire army button is by hotkeying your eggs.......not to mention this is a basic concept and simple norm.
So I'm a bit confused to the entire tone of your post. I will say this though......I had no idea he had absolutely no hotkeys at all. I didn't watch that far into the game to notice it. I stopped after seeing him float 1K. I just remembering reading your previous post that said, "but yeah, you definitely need to have more than 2 control groups"....... I was simply letting the OP know that 2 control groups is perfectly fine.
So to the OP, I'll end by reiterating that as your name hints at, lol, you indeed droned quite masterfully during your game. Just work on basic build orders, macro, and some initial timings and you'll be improving very quickly.
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On September 13 2013 04:25 DilemaH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 03:18 Mvrio wrote:
ok so I got into gold :D this is from being in Diamond in WoL and Plat in HoTS but been gradually playing less and less. last season I only played like 5 games total.
was super happy I got into gold lol so when I play Terrans now they do deathballs of 4M's with terrible mine control. I laughed at first but then I was like oh shit. so how do I deal with that?
this is me not knowing any builds anymore and just winging it everytime. been using 15p/16h if thats any good Hatch first all the time vs Terran. 15 hatch 16 pool and gas ASAP when ou scout reaper opening, take drones off gas at 100 gas and start Zergling speed. If no double gas, this is my build order. 15 hatch 16 pool (Ovie when necessary) Double queen Another pair of queens for creep Double gas at 5:20Speed at 100 Double Evo at 7:00 Start double upsStart lair next 100 gas (take third around 5-6:30; I haven't played SC2 in a while so I forgot exactly when) TvZ is the most micro dependent MU IMO. If they have bad control I wold shut on them, but maybe not you. Your army comp is ling/bane/muta. When you're feeling safe, tech into hive. Deny the terrans third. Scout with suicide Ovie at 6-7:30. If you see 3 CCs in total, feel safe. If you see 3+ rax, get a warren and bane nest soon. Be patient with your engagements. Try coming in from all angles, or doing the patrol-engage vs bio mine. Dont be too over aggressive, but attack and kill some SCVs if you feel he made a mistake/bad engagement. That's all I'll say.
thanks man, I think the bolded parts I did helped me the most. I got the micro and the APM still needed to destroy golds its just I feel like an athlete who was injured for a year, came back then they changed a lot of the rules while I was gone lol
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On September 13 2013 06:51 11B wrote:
So I'm a bit confused to the entire tone of your post. I will say this though......I had no idea he had absolutely no hotkeys at all. I didn't watch that far into the game to notice it. I stopped after seeing him float 1K. I just remembering reading your previous post that said, "but yeah, you definitely need to have more than 2 control groups"....... I was simply letting the OP know that 2 control groups is perfectly fine.
So to the OP, I'll end by reiterating that as your name hints at, lol, you indeed droned quite masterfully during your game. Just work on basic build orders, macro, and some initial timings and you'll be improving very quickly.
Well i'm sorry if you found my post offending. Clearly I thought you were talking to me since almost your entire post was refering to my answers. My bad then.
But yeah. He had no controls groups at all. At least not using them enough. And that could've been game breaking. He definitely need to work on that too. Hell i'd even say right now it's more important than macro with the current ZvT's metagame (macro alone won't get you far since a lot of terrans are getting better at controlling their mines lately).
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On September 12 2013 23:42 DilemaH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 16:32 Destruktor wrote:
Hi guys! Plat. Zerg here.
I have a huge problem in ZvZ against muta players. I like to go roach/hidra macro play on this match. I usually go to fast +1/+1 distance attack after a greedy opening. I defend with a few banes while I'm teching to Lair. The big problem is how to take/defend my third. I can defend my main and nat. with Spores and Simcity/banes against run-bys but my third is vulnerable to mutas and lings runbys. I can't attack to his third with my roach until I have hidras but when it's happens, my oponent is ahead in economy. How can I take my third? Maybe take it before mutas come and with more banes to defend?
Thanks in advanced. Dont. Rush. Hydras. In roach vs roach I getthem 130-150 supply, but thats not your instance. I like to be roach/bane/spore to defend, and go for a 200/200 roach hydra 2/2 timing. Hover an overlord above your third. then spread creep and make spores. If you are unable to do this, you can run your roaches at his third and deny it and suicide your roaches that are already across the map to kill more stuff. Consider banelings if he has a lot of lings. If you snipe the spire, you can roach rush him in about 1-2 minutes. You should of bought time for your third and killed his third but lost your roach force which is why you have more roaches at home. but this is mass muta/ling. If he transitions into roaches, Play standard from there and dont overspore. 2/2 200/200 roach/hydra push with around ~7 infestors is good vs mass mutaling with, heck maybe ultras. Fungal everything you can that would hurt him the most. Engage in chokes, such as the chokes up ramps or behind mineral lines. But make sure you have a roach wall so your hydras dont melt to banelings (literaly)
Thanks man. I'll try to defend my third with roaches/spores and go to 200/200 +2/+2 roach/hidra attack.
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Counter attacks how do YOU do them?
And its not about harrasing mutas, or a counter to a failed attack, its all about countering while being pressed by another player(esp in TvZ).
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On September 13 2013 18:26 Guileful wrote:
Counter attacks how do YOU do them?
And its not about harrasing mutas, or a counter to a failed attack, its all about countering while being pressed by another player(esp in TvZ).
Asuming your army hotly is 1 (mine is 3)
Select control group 1, then issue a move command somewhere while shift clicking lings in the control panel at the bottom middle. The more you click the more units will go for the attack. Then, press ctrl 1 and you deselected some lings for your control group. Move them to a location, ready for the counterattack. You can even morph them into banes to kill any wall offs. When his army is out of position, move shift a-move your lings into his mineral line.mcare for widow mines and if need be, target individual SCVs or your lings might go for a bunker.
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On September 13 2013 18:26 Guileful wrote:
Counter attacks how do YOU do them?
And its not about harrasing mutas, or a counter to a failed attack, its all about countering while being pressed by another player(esp in TvZ).
I find that burrow helps a lot. You want to burrow a group of zerglings somewhere. Enough to cause damage but not enough to get you killed if he commits to an attack with everything he has. You also want to be able to see him moving out and see his expansions going down. So lings burrowed at expansions or overlords and lings burrowed on the main paths to see unit movements can help.
If you don't have scouting info your counter attacks will almost never work against solid players. If you know where he's vulnerable then you can do damage. This is the cardinal rule of counter attacking. You want to do a lot of damage with very little investment. Counter attacks should be the epitome of cost effectiveness.
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On September 13 2013 09:32 Mvrio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:25 DilemaH wrote:On September 13 2013 03:18 Mvrio wrote:
ok so I got into gold :D this is from being in Diamond in WoL and Plat in HoTS but been gradually playing less and less. last season I only played like 5 games total.
was super happy I got into gold lol so when I play Terrans now they do deathballs of 4M's with terrible mine control. I laughed at first but then I was like oh shit. so how do I deal with that?
this is me not knowing any builds anymore and just winging it everytime. been using 15p/16h if thats any good Hatch first all the time vs Terran. 15 hatch 16 pool and gas ASAP when ou scout reaper opening, take drones off gas at 100 gas and start Zergling speed. If no double gas, this is my build order. 15 hatch 16 pool (Ovie when necessary) Double queen Another pair of queens for creep Double gas at 5:20Speed at 100 Double Evo at 7:00 Start double upsStart lair next 100 gas (take third around 5-6:30; I haven't played SC2 in a while so I forgot exactly when) TvZ is the most micro dependent MU IMO. If they have bad control I wold shut on them, but maybe not you. Your army comp is ling/bane/muta. When you're feeling safe, tech into hive. Deny the terrans third. Scout with suicide Ovie at 6-7:30. If you see 3 CCs in total, feel safe. If you see 3+ rax, get a warren and bane nest soon. Be patient with your engagements. Try coming in from all angles, or doing the patrol-engage vs bio mine. Dont be too over aggressive, but attack and kill some SCVs if you feel he made a mistake/bad engagement. That's all I'll say. thanks man, I think the bolded parts I did helped me the most. I got the micro and the APM still needed to destroy golds its just I feel like an athlete who was injured for a year, came back then they changed a lot of the rules while I was gone lol
If youre confused about the rules, ill explain the meta so far.
(Any Timings Im Unsure Of, I Wont Say An Estamate)
Terran opens reapers (usualy) with 12 rax 12 gas for scouting and harassing. They make 2 reapers while making their nat CC. Then, they start their factory with a reactor on the rax. If they scout 1 gas from you (which is standard) theyll pull back before ling speed hits and regroup with the hellions. They should have 2 reapers 6 hellions which is scary. Behind this, they make their 3rd CC. You shoudlve taken your 3rd base (vs gas opening) from 6-7 minutes in game. They use the hellions to push back creep spread. Do NOT engage this squad off creep unless if youre gosu; youre going to lose a lot. But you need to make lings. If they realize you are overdroning your third they WILL dive it. If theyre bad theyll dive it anyways. If he comes on creep too much, kill his hellions with your lings because at that point (before 12:00, say) thats the only thing controlling your creep spread and protecting his third. If you kill his hellions, deny his third and you will be bonkerly ahead.
Now at around 11:30, a good terran will start moving out with 4M and push back creep. The mines allow him to trade in his favour, and with mules he can do this. His goal is to widdle you down, not in a deathball fasion. DENY HIS 4TH, counter attack if you can. The point is that if he gets a fourth, it will be a long and tiring game as you want to starve him on 3 bases. To seal the deal, when you get ultras you can go for a timing push right away. If he has 4 bases however, you will need to go for infestor ultra ling bling, or even queens and BLs if youre scarlett.
vs gasless terran, do what I said. They will go for hellions, but will be less threatening because they have 2 less reapers, but in turn you have slowlings for a while, and with the 4 queen vs gasless you want to spread creep more. You can also take your third from 5-6:30 vs gasless. These are the main variants.
You need to scout at 6:00 though. If you see a 3rd CC, chill and do what I mentioned. HOWEVER they may vary what they do. Heres a few all in / aggressions off the top of my head.
1.5 factory blue flame hellion
Signs: 1 reactor 1 tech lab factory, hellions staying at home.
Reaction: Roaches, maybe banelings
10 minute timing
Signs: 2 more rax instead of 3rd CC
Reaction: cancel upgrades if they wont hit around 10:00; dont drone heavily, make banelings and roaches and lings.
Hellion/banshee
Signs: tech lab on a starport instead of 3rd
reaction: make more queens (few more); 1 spore per mineral line and I like to put one on the edge of my creep so I can hold that ground
Thats all I can think of right now.
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On September 13 2013 23:22 DilemaH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 09:32 Mvrio wrote:On September 13 2013 04:25 DilemaH wrote:On September 13 2013 03:18 Mvrio wrote:
ok so I got into gold :D this is from being in Diamond in WoL and Plat in HoTS but been gradually playing less and less. last season I only played like 5 games total.
was super happy I got into gold lol so when I play Terrans now they do deathballs of 4M's with terrible mine control. I laughed at first but then I was like oh shit. so how do I deal with that?
this is me not knowing any builds anymore and just winging it everytime. been using 15p/16h if thats any good Hatch first all the time vs Terran. 15 hatch 16 pool and gas ASAP when ou scout reaper opening, take drones off gas at 100 gas and start Zergling speed. If no double gas, this is my build order. 15 hatch 16 pool (Ovie when necessary) Double queen Another pair of queens for creep Double gas at 5:20Speed at 100 Double Evo at 7:00 Start double upsStart lair next 100 gas (take third around 5-6:30; I haven't played SC2 in a while so I forgot exactly when) TvZ is the most micro dependent MU IMO. If they have bad control I wold shut on them, but maybe not you. Your army comp is ling/bane/muta. When you're feeling safe, tech into hive. Deny the terrans third. Scout with suicide Ovie at 6-7:30. If you see 3 CCs in total, feel safe. If you see 3+ rax, get a warren and bane nest soon. Be patient with your engagements. Try coming in from all angles, or doing the patrol-engage vs bio mine. Dont be too over aggressive, but attack and kill some SCVs if you feel he made a mistake/bad engagement. That's all I'll say. thanks man, I think the bolded parts I did helped me the most. I got the micro and the APM still needed to destroy golds its just I feel like an athlete who was injured for a year, came back then they changed a lot of the rules while I was gone lol If youre confused about the rules, ill explain the meta so far. (Any Timings Im Unsure Of, I Wont Say An Estamate) Terran opens reapers (usualy) with 12 rax 12 gas for scouting and harassing. They make 2 reapers while making their nat CC. Then, they start their factory with a reactor on the rax. If they scout 1 gas from you (which is standard) theyll pull back before ling speed hits and regroup with the hellions. They should have 2 reapers 6 hellions which is scary. Behind this, they make their 3rd CC. You shoudlve taken your 3rd base (vs gas opening) from 6-7 minutes in game. They use the hellions to push back creep spread. Do NOT engage this squad off creep unless if youre gosu; youre going to lose a lot. But you need to make lings. If they realize you are overdroning your third they WILL dive it. If theyre bad theyll dive it anyways. If he comes on creep too much, kill his hellions with your lings because at that point (before 12:00, say) thats the only thing controlling your creep spread and protecting his third. If you kill his hellions, deny his third and you will be bonkerly ahead. Now at around 11:30, a good terran will start moving out with 4M and push back creep. The mines allow him to trade in his favour, and with mules he can do this. His goal is to widdle you down, not in a deathball fasion. DENY HIS 4TH, counter attack if you can. The point is that if he gets a fourth, it will be a long and tiring game as you want to starve him on 3 bases. To seal the deal, when you get ultras you can go for a timing push right away. If he has 4 bases however, you will need to go for infestor ultra ling bling, or even queens and BLs if youre scarlett. vs gasless terran, do what I said. They will go for hellions, but will be less threatening because they have 2 less reapers, but in turn you have slowlings for a while, and with the 4 queen vs gasless you want to spread creep more. You can also take your third from 5-6:30 vs gasless. These are the main variants. You need to scout at 6:00 though. If you see a 3rd CC, chill and do what I mentioned. HOWEVER they may vary what they do. Heres a few all in / aggressions off the top of my head. 1.5 factory blue flame hellion Signs: 1 reactor 1 tech lab factory, hellions staying at home. Reaction: Roaches, maybe banelings 10 minute timing Signs: 2 more rax instead of 3rd CC Reaction: cancel upgrades if they wont hit around 10:00; dont drone heavily, make banelings and roaches and lings. Hellion/banshee Signs: tech lab on a starport instead of 3rd reaction: make more queens (few more); 1 spore per mineral line and I like to put one on the edge of my creep so I can hold that ground Thats all I can think of right now.
WOW I wish that you could explain the meta for the other MUs that well too  I like it when it is explained in sentences and explaining the general ideas and reasoning.
I know this answer was not directed at me but thanks this helped me greatly! If ever you have time would love to have ZvP explained as well!
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On September 14 2013 02:16 b0ub0u wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 23:22 DilemaH wrote:On September 13 2013 09:32 Mvrio wrote:On September 13 2013 04:25 DilemaH wrote:On September 13 2013 03:18 Mvrio wrote:
ok so I got into gold :D this is from being in Diamond in WoL and Plat in HoTS but been gradually playing less and less. last season I only played like 5 games total.
was super happy I got into gold lol so when I play Terrans now they do deathballs of 4M's with terrible mine control. I laughed at first but then I was like oh shit. so how do I deal with that?
this is me not knowing any builds anymore and just winging it everytime. been using 15p/16h if thats any good Hatch first all the time vs Terran. 15 hatch 16 pool and gas ASAP when ou scout reaper opening, take drones off gas at 100 gas and start Zergling speed. If no double gas, this is my build order. 15 hatch 16 pool (Ovie when necessary) Double queen Another pair of queens for creep Double gas at 5:20Speed at 100 Double Evo at 7:00 Start double upsStart lair next 100 gas (take third around 5-6:30; I haven't played SC2 in a while so I forgot exactly when) TvZ is the most micro dependent MU IMO. If they have bad control I wold shut on them, but maybe not you. Your army comp is ling/bane/muta. When you're feeling safe, tech into hive. Deny the terrans third. Scout with suicide Ovie at 6-7:30. If you see 3 CCs in total, feel safe. If you see 3+ rax, get a warren and bane nest soon. Be patient with your engagements. Try coming in from all angles, or doing the patrol-engage vs bio mine. Dont be too over aggressive, but attack and kill some SCVs if you feel he made a mistake/bad engagement. That's all I'll say. thanks man, I think the bolded parts I did helped me the most. I got the micro and the APM still needed to destroy golds its just I feel like an athlete who was injured for a year, came back then they changed a lot of the rules while I was gone lol If youre confused about the rules, ill explain the meta so far. (Any Timings Im Unsure Of, I Wont Say An Estamate) Terran opens reapers (usualy) with 12 rax 12 gas for scouting and harassing. They make 2 reapers while making their nat CC. Then, they start their factory with a reactor on the rax. If they scout 1 gas from you (which is standard) theyll pull back before ling speed hits and regroup with the hellions. They should have 2 reapers 6 hellions which is scary. Behind this, they make their 3rd CC. You shoudlve taken your 3rd base (vs gas opening) from 6-7 minutes in game. They use the hellions to push back creep spread. Do NOT engage this squad off creep unless if youre gosu; youre going to lose a lot. But you need to make lings. If they realize you are overdroning your third they WILL dive it. If theyre bad theyll dive it anyways. If he comes on creep too much, kill his hellions with your lings because at that point (before 12:00, say) thats the only thing controlling your creep spread and protecting his third. If you kill his hellions, deny his third and you will be bonkerly ahead. Now at around 11:30, a good terran will start moving out with 4M and push back creep. The mines allow him to trade in his favour, and with mules he can do this. His goal is to widdle you down, not in a deathball fasion. DENY HIS 4TH, counter attack if you can. The point is that if he gets a fourth, it will be a long and tiring game as you want to starve him on 3 bases. To seal the deal, when you get ultras you can go for a timing push right away. If he has 4 bases however, you will need to go for infestor ultra ling bling, or even queens and BLs if youre scarlett. vs gasless terran, do what I said. They will go for hellions, but will be less threatening because they have 2 less reapers, but in turn you have slowlings for a while, and with the 4 queen vs gasless you want to spread creep more. You can also take your third from 5-6:30 vs gasless. These are the main variants. You need to scout at 6:00 though. If you see a 3rd CC, chill and do what I mentioned. HOWEVER they may vary what they do. Heres a few all in / aggressions off the top of my head. 1.5 factory blue flame hellion Signs: 1 reactor 1 tech lab factory, hellions staying at home. Reaction: Roaches, maybe banelings 10 minute timing Signs: 2 more rax instead of 3rd CC Reaction: cancel upgrades if they wont hit around 10:00; dont drone heavily, make banelings and roaches and lings. Hellion/banshee Signs: tech lab on a starport instead of 3rd reaction: make more queens (few more); 1 spore per mineral line and I like to put one on the edge of my creep so I can hold that ground Thats all I can think of right now. WOW I wish that you could explain the meta for the other MUs that well too I like it when it is explained in sentences and explaining the general ideas and reasoning. I know this answer was not directed at me but thanks this helped me greatly! If ever you have time would love to have ZvP explained as well!
Make Mutalisks
Aha, im joking. The reason I explained TvZ is because its not as much about game knowledge. TvZ is a lot more straightforward, where as ZvP is a lot of situations and different buils and playstyle.
Ill do my best though.
vs an FFE (most common in pro play by a longshot now), just watch for these things;
gases at nat (by....6:00 is tech play)
chrono on warp gate (aggression)
fast and chronod +1 (4gate +1/probable timing)
really just a lot of builds. Look around for stuff. Check for an expo at 10:00; if not, probable all in and get ready. Theres so much to cover, more than I know (how to react and the timings at least). Just check the double gas at the nat and 3rd base. You can do lots of different playstyles in the late game. I like roach/hydra into fast vipers into blade5555 lategame style. You can go muta/ling, techswitch, muta corrupter, swarmhost etc etc. Just make them react to you but adjust to them
I actualy dont know shit about ZvZ though, less than PvZ.
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only 2 10pools autowin vs hatch first: 10 pool baneling and 10 pool with all drones but 2 pulled (1 spine in natural 1 in main).
Edit: you cannot autowin vs hatch first without going completely all-in. If you do those vs 15p you are very very likely to lose.
Edit2: To be more precise 10p baneling is ALMOST autowin... if they opponent micros his heart out he can come out on top.
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Oh, I thought non all-in 10 pools beat 15 hatch assuming equal micro skills but maybe I'm wrong. Is there a version of 9/10 pool that comes out ahead of 15 hatch but is not all-in?
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Is there a version of 9/10 pool that comes out ahead of 15 hatch but is not all-in?
- drone to 10
- 10 Pool
- @ 70 minerals extractor (do not cancel yet)
- @ 70 minerals 2nd extractor -> cancel both extractors
- 12/10 Overlord
- 12 -> 6 Lings
- 15 -> Queen
- 19/18 -> 4 Lings (extractor trick)
The build gives you 10 early zerglings, 12 drones, and an early Queen. Vs an opponent opening 15 Hatch > 16 pool you're in very good shape. You'll get the cancel or kill his expansion while taking an expansion of your own. You've already got the early Ling advantage so you can delay his expansion for quite a bit......not to mention you have an earlier Queen so you'll have additional larvae sooner than him for more lings or drones and once your expo is finished will definitely be ahead.
Of course this sucks vs Pool -> Hatch ^^. Gotta show them lings and force him to make lings......at least that way you get your 1st inject quicker and can catch up a bit on some drones.
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On September 14 2013 13:59 schwza wrote:
Oh, I thought non all-in 10 pools beat 15 hatch assuming equal micro skills but maybe I'm wrong. Is there a version of 9/10 pool that comes out ahead of 15 hatch but is not all-in?
standard gasless 10pool with an expansion behind it comes out ahead without being all-in but you must be very very careful for the ling bane reaction of the opponent. I thought you wanted builds that outright kill 15 hatch.
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How do you deal with force fields ?
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On September 15 2013 03:44 morgoth813 wrote:
How do you deal with force fields ?
1. Choose the place of engagement well. Smaller chokes are easily forcefielded. Middle of derelict watcher for example is wide open and requires a lot of forcefields.
2. Retreat if protoss throws down a lot of forcefields. Use the time to gather reinforcements. He will have less forcefields for later.
3. Attack from multiple angles to make it harder for protoss to forcefield and make them use more forcefields.
4. Hydras with range can still sometimes shoot despite forcefields
5. Make more units to compensate for forcefields.
6. Ultralisks stomp on forcefields.
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On September 15 2013 06:43 hearters wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2013 03:44 morgoth813 wrote:
How do you deal with force fields ? 1. Choose the place of engagement well. Smaller chokes are easily forcefielded. Middle of derelict watcher for example is wide open and requires a lot of forcefields. 2. Retreat if protoss throws down a lot of forcefields. Use the time to gather reinforcements. He will have less forcefields for later. 3. Attack from multiple angles to make it harder for protoss to forcefield and make them use more forcefields. 4. Hydras with range can still sometimes shoot despite forcefields 5. Make more units to compensate for forcefields. 6. Ultralisks stomp on forcefields.
1. sure, unless you're forced to defend
2. and lose most of your zerglings/banelings as well as units he chose to trap between forcefields
3. ok
4. Hydras are more fragile than a piece of paper, yet barely have the range of a stalker when upgraded. that's really a horrible idea.
5. macro harder yadda yadda ?
6. sure. but ultralisks are hive tech.
Now it seems that there aren't that many sentries in most of the protoss armies I fight, which begs the question:
What is the big downside of using sentries ? gas usage ? low dps ? fragile creatures ?
Is there a good way to take advantage of a player using too many sentries (i.e. enough to cast 20 forcefields in less than 30 seconds) ?
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On September 15 2013 17:56 morgoth813 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2013 06:43 hearters wrote:On September 15 2013 03:44 morgoth813 wrote:
How do you deal with force fields ? 1. Choose the place of engagement well. Smaller chokes are easily forcefielded. Middle of derelict watcher for example is wide open and requires a lot of forcefields. 2. Retreat if protoss throws down a lot of forcefields. Use the time to gather reinforcements. He will have less forcefields for later. 3. Attack from multiple angles to make it harder for protoss to forcefield and make them use more forcefields. 4. Hydras with range can still sometimes shoot despite forcefields 5. Make more units to compensate for forcefields. 6. Ultralisks stomp on forcefields. 1. sure, unless you're forced to defend 2. and lose most of your zerglings/banelings as well as units he chose to trap between forcefields 3. ok 4. Hydras are more fragile than a piece of paper, yet barely have the range of a stalker when upgraded. that's really a horrible idea. 5. macro harder yadda yadda ? 6. sure. but ultralisks are hive tech. Now it seems that there aren't that many sentries in most of the protoss armies I fight, which begs the question: What is the big downside of using sentries ? gas usage ? low dps ? fragile creatures ? Is there a good way to take advantage of a player using too many sentries (i.e. enough to cast 20 forcefields in less than 30 seconds) ?
Changing your attitude will help you improve.
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4. Hydras are more fragile than a piece of paper, yet barely have the range of a stalker when upgraded. that's really a horrible idea.
Hydra's with range do quite well vs sentries and Immortals. What's better? A 4 range Roach stuck behind FFs which can't attack the sentries/Immortals/Stalkers etc, or A Hydra with range?
And if you still refuse to use Hydra's then get burrow. This will definitely increase the life of your Roaches/Lings until they get observers. And even then, if they don't position observers perfectly you might squeeze some extra life out of your units.
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EPT
