EPTAlso, when people are kiting (say roaches kiting zealots), is it move-stop-move-stop or move-attack something-move-attack something?
The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 115
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schwza
67 Posts
Also, when people are kiting (say roaches kiting zealots), is it move-stop-move-stop or move-attack something-move-attack something? | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On September 11 2013 00:35 schwza wrote: I know I read somewhere about adding a 3rd hotkey to an action, but I can't find it again. There's something about editing a text file. Does anyone know how to do it? Also, when people are kiting (say roaches kiting zealots), is it move-stop-move-stop or move-attack something-move-attack something? Second Question I can answer. You can do either, but each has its seperate advantages. Move->stop is good when you are controlling the units that you want to kite only. If you have a control group that you want to studder step, move->Amove is better that way all units are attacking, not just some units not attacking because theyre at the back line, and if youre a zergie (which you are probably because this is the zerg help me thread) you probably have units that arent in the fight that will end up being studder stepped to, so if you move->stop in that scenario your reinforcements will come slower. | ||
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morgoth813
43 Posts
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ReMinD_
Croatia846 Posts
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VerdeCreed
United States27 Posts
I lost three games now simply to an opponent that cut drones at 16 and then pumped mass ling. He stops gas at 100 and then masses speedlings for a huge attack. I scout the early expansion and think that I am safe to drone a little more, but they only built a queen and used it as a macro hatch. I don't really have a build that I follow, I am just a gold level player, but I spend all my minerals and lost to it in game 1 with spines lings and queens, and games 2 with roaches, and game three with lings and roaches. All I know is that is seemed like an unholy amount of lings that hit my natural just after 6:00. My ovie at the front sees the move out, but it seems like that is too late to possibly shore up enough lings to hold. | ||
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Incand
143 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:38 VerdeCreed wrote: How do you deal with someone who goes mass speedling off of two hatches? I lost three games now simply to an opponent that cut drones at 16 and then pumped mass ling. He stops gas at 100 and then masses speedlings for a huge attack. I scout the early expansion and think that I am safe to drone a little more, but they only built a queen and used it as a macro hatch. I don't really have a build that I follow, I am just a gold level player, but I spend all my minerals and lost to it in game 1 with spines lings and queens, and games 2 with roaches, and game three with lings and roaches. All I know is that is seemed like an unholy amount of lings that hit my natural just after 6:00. My ovie at the front sees the move out, but it seems like that is too late to possibly shore up enough lings to hold. So your opponent probably went for hatch first maybe hatch gas pool. Basicly this gives him a production window where he can produce a lot of units or drones at once and mass speedlings is a pretty common followup. What you should always do is make a pair of lings early to run over his side and scout and see if theres a lot of lings hiding. This is also the same against a 14/14 expand where you instead see the hatch is a bit later. I tend to make my pair of slowlings around 24 supply and then run them straigth over and scout whats going on. This is mainly to see if theres some allin like this coming. Your second scout timing when your speed actually finishes is more to see his tech choice. Another option you can do on some map is let your ovie be beside his mineral line and see if hes making drones however this isn't as foolproof since its possible for him to fake it or just make a smaller set of lings and i find just making those 2 lings isn't a big investment. As for actually defending it. When you see he opened hatch first and got a lot of lings and coming for an allin sned your queens to block ramp asap! you should have banelings that finishes about the time he comes so just holding that ramp for like 5 sec and you fine. if he makes banelings himself you need more banelings otherwise just getting like 2-4 is usually fine If he instead opened 14/14 the allin will come earlier and you wont have banes in time so whats very important is to getting a spinecrawler that is in range of the ramp so your queen can protect it will blocking the ramp. Again when you see he makes a lot of lings send queens to block ramp and against 14/14 he hurt his econ a lot so you are also fine to get an extra queen and a few slowlings.. like 10 is usually enough to defend. | ||
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NrG.ZaM
United States267 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:25 ReMinD_ wrote: What's the best way to build multiple spines? What I did was switch the hotkeys for building a baneling nest and spine crawler, then I can just box drones and go BBBBBBBBBBBB and get a bunch of spines, alternatively you can stop your drones then hit B, shift+C, then while holding shift click every spot you want spines. This sets up a big queue of spine building, and you stop the drones first so they immediately go, rather than finishing their previous command (move, mine, etc.) first. Edit: assuming you're using the standard hotkey setup in the longer method, if you've already customized your hotkeys, insert your preferred build baneling nest command. | ||
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bebop521
United States23 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:38 VerdeCreed wrote: How do you deal with someone who goes mass speedling off of two hatches? I lost three games now simply to an opponent that cut drones at 16 and then pumped mass ling. He stops gas at 100 and then masses speedlings for a huge attack. I scout the early expansion and think that I am safe to drone a little more, but they only built a queen and used it as a macro hatch. I don't really have a build that I follow, I am just a gold level player, but I spend all my minerals and lost to it in game 1 with spines lings and queens, and games 2 with roaches, and game three with lings and roaches. All I know is that is seemed like an unholy amount of lings that hit my natural just after 6:00. My ovie at the front sees the move out, but it seems like that is too late to possibly shore up enough lings to hold. this timing comes at exactly 6:00 or so if they did it 15 hatch gas pool. stopping this is fairly simple. all you need is 2 queens blocking the ramp, 1 ovie looking at his nat mineral line, spread ovies from his base to yours in a line to see lings. and a spine crawler that can preferably reach your ramp where your queens are blocking and your minerals line. more importantly your ramp. its is important to constantly know when he is sneaking out lings and how many from his base so this is where you need that ovie in front of his base but becareful that it doesnt get snipped. i usually have 2 ovies so i cover more ground. a sure sign is when he only have about 3-4 drones at his nat when you have 10. when he does this aggression you have either 2 choices make tons lings of your own and queens if your minerals can spare or 3-4 spines spaced out with banelings and contiune to drone. usually nothing can break 3-4 spines with baneling and 2 queens unless your careless with your banelings. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
Do you see any hardcounter when you scout a greedy build like 1 gate Nexus @ 3:00 Cyber Forge ? I tried to punish it with a random baneling bust, didnt work but my execution could have been better. Anyway, i'm looking for other suggestions ! | ||
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MasterDrone
France50 Posts
Today in Z v T I met a strange case: the guy used 4M + Hellbat, but with lots of Marauder (no. Marauder = Marine). He used Marauder and Hellbat to block damage from baneling. and because a lot of marauder, I don't know if building Roach is a good call. I traded with him ok, until I make a decision to destroy his 3rd while figuring out his attempt to make 4th. But then I was crush my natural and things went wrong there. my lings/bane is block and not effective. Marine kills my 2-0 Muta Please help me point out what should I do to be better? Thank you in advance. Here is my replay: http://ggtracker.com/matches/4052279/replay | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On September 12 2013 07:18 MasterDrone wrote: I'm Diamond Zerg, Today in Z v T I met a strange case: the guy used 4M + Hellbat, but with lots of Marauder (no. Marauder = Marine). He used Marauder and Hellbat to block damage from baneling. and because a lot of marauder, I don't know if building Roach is a good call. I traded with him ok, until I make a decision to destroy his 3rd while figuring out his attempt to make 4th. But then I was crush my natural and things went wrong there. my lings/bane is block and not effective. Marine kills my 2-0 Muta Please help me point out what should I do to be better? Thank you in advance. Here is my replay: http://ggtracker.com/matches/4052279/replay Mmmm. First and foremost, I think you really need to have more than 1 hotkey... Hotkeying all your hatch is good and all, but it's far from being enough... As a result you lost a lot of units needlessly, like the banes going to the marauders instead of the hellbats or the marines... It hurts. Also no mutas until like 13 min ? Or no banes 'til like 10 minutes. You know, you don't necessarily need to have 1 more base than the terran straight away. You can wait a little and tech instead and then you could have a little more controls with the speed banes or mutas traveling around the T's base. But yeah, You definitely need to have more than 2 controls groups. Cauz whenever you try to focus fire with your mutas you end up focus firing with your banes as well and as they can't hit the air (the medivacs) they try to hit the closest target (in this case, the marauder) Also : get rid of that all army buton. Will do you more arm than good. | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On September 12 2013 05:50 Insoleet wrote: In PvZ, Do you see any hardcounter when you scout a greedy build like 1 gate Nexus @ 3:00 Cyber Forge ? I tried to punish it with a random baneling bust, didnt work but my execution could have been better. Anyway, i'm looking for other suggestions ! If he skips MSC, you can run lings int his mineral line. If he skips zealot, I wold rally slow lings bit by bit while droning. Especially if gateway is on the low ground. If this is a gateway expand play standard unless if he skipped MSC | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Please help me point out what should I do to be better? You droned very nicely ^^. But in general you need to work on your build order and macro. At around 9m mark you were floating over 1K minerals. That could have been 2 additional macro hatches and 2 more Queens. Also, your opening of only 2 Queens is pretty bad imo. 4 minimum > 2 for injects and 2 for creep and Hellion defense. Also no mutas until like 13 min ? Or no banes 'til like 10 minutes. In general I find no fault in this. Personally, I prefer to play a Life type style of Z vs T so I don't even start my Spire until 12-13m and don't start making Blings until after 11. So these timings can be deceptive. I will say that in the replay provided Lair timing and Bling nest were quite behind the norm though......even with a Life type style. 2 control groups is quite acceptable. Absolutely nothing wrong with it......you shouldn't feel the need to change that. Have you heard of AceR.Scarlett? Pretty much one of the hottest Zerg players this year. She hotkeys Lings/Blings as 1 and Muta as 2. She doesn't add a 3rd unit hotkey until Infestors or Viper. And using Entire Army Hotkey is fine too. Which is quicker? Entire Army A to minimap or minimap > find the units > add them to control groups > then A move them? It's much quicker to just hit entire Army A. Sure, you should already have them hotkeyed before hand so you don't need to use the entire Army button, but when macro/micro slips it saves you time. You can hotkey/control group the units after they've already started moving out (again, this is quicker). So........work on better build orders, spend your money, and focus more attention on gas/Lair/Bling, etc timings. On a very positive note.......you droned quite masterfully in the beginning. If you would have spent your money you'd be in a strong position to win the game. | ||
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Destruktor
Spain60 Posts
I have a huge problem in ZvZ against muta players. I like to go roach/hidra macro play on this match. I usually go to fast +1/+1 distance attack after a greedy opening. I defend with a few banes while I'm teching to Lair. The big problem is how to take/defend my third. I can defend my main and nat. with Spores and Simcity/banes against run-bys but my third is vulnerable to mutas and lings runbys. I can't attack to his third with my roach until I have hidras but when it's happens, my oponent is ahead in economy. How can I take my third? Maybe take it before mutas come and with more banes to defend? Thanks in advanced. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On September 12 2013 15:06 11B wrote: And using Entire Army Hotkey is fine too. Which is quicker? Entire Army A to minimap or minimap > find the units > add them to control groups > then A move them? It's much quicker to just hit entire Army A. Sure, you should already have them hotkeyed before hand so you don't need to use the entire Army button, but when macro/micro slips it saves you time. You can hotkey/control group the units after they've already started moving out (again, this is quicker). Dude, he had no hotkey at all for units (except in the beginning maybe but meh). You could've seen the macro / micro slips in this game : He used the entire army buton to let the ling die for free in front of the marines when all of his army were trying to attack from the back... I'm not saying to get rid off this army hotkey completely, but it's a VERY bad habit to use while playing competitive 1v1...You should use it only a few time. I find it quite annoying especially when you have lings on xel'naga's tower for example. Anyway, it's definitely a bad habit and you need to have more units hotkeys. And thank you I know Scarlett. My turn : Do you know Stephano ? He hotkeys the units when they're still inside the eggs which means you don't have to "click" on the minimap once the units are out. Saves time too. You just have to double tap the hotkey and it puts you exactly to where your units are. Really useful when microing mutas, or when trying to control a ling's runby while you're busy with your main army. Really, all i'm asking is having your mutas or banes hotkeyed to complement the all army buton at least. Is that too much to ask ? | ||
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MasterDrone
France50 Posts
On September 12 2013 10:34 RaiZ wrote: Mmmm. First and foremost, I think you really need to have more than 1 hotkey... Hotkeying all your hatch is good and all, but it's far from being enough... As a result you lost a lot of units needlessly, like the banes going to the marauders instead of the hellbats or the marines... It hurts. Also no mutas until like 13 min ? Or no banes 'til like 10 minutes. You know, you don't necessarily need to have 1 more base than the terran straight away. You can wait a little and tech instead and then you could have a little more controls with the speed banes or mutas traveling around the T's base. But yeah, You definitely need to have more than 2 controls groups. Cauz whenever you try to focus fire with your mutas you end up focus firing with your banes as well and as they can't hit the air (the medivacs) they try to hit the closest target (in this case, the marauder) Also : get rid of that all army buton. Will do you more arm than good. Thank you man. I think the problem of 1 control groups is pretty important. I will work it out. Lately I have been so much used that Select Army button. Maybe I have to disable it. | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On September 12 2013 16:32 Destruktor wrote: Hi guys! Plat. Zerg here. I have a huge problem in ZvZ against muta players. I like to go roach/hidra macro play on this match. I usually go to fast +1/+1 distance attack after a greedy opening. I defend with a few banes while I'm teching to Lair. The big problem is how to take/defend my third. I can defend my main and nat. with Spores and Simcity/banes against run-bys but my third is vulnerable to mutas and lings runbys. I can't attack to his third with my roach until I have hidras but when it's happens, my oponent is ahead in economy. How can I take my third? Maybe take it before mutas come and with more banes to defend? Thanks in advanced. Dont. Rush. Hydras. In roach vs roach I getthem 130-150 supply, but thats not your instance. I like to be roach/bane/spore to defend, and go for a 200/200 roach hydra 2/2 timing. Hover an overlord above your third. then spread creep and make spores. If you are unable to do this, you can run your roaches at his third and deny it and suicide your roaches that are already across the map to kill more stuff. Consider banelings if he has a lot of lings. If you snipe the spire, you can roach rush him in about 1-2 minutes. You should of bought time for your third and killed his third but lost your roach force which is why you have more roaches at home. but this is mass muta/ling. If he transitions into roaches, Play standard from there and dont overspore. 2/2 200/200 roach/hydra push with around ~7 infestors is good vs mass mutaling with, heck maybe ultras. Fungal everything you can that would hurt him the most. Engage in chokes, such as the chokes up ramps or behind mineral lines. But make sure you have a roach wall so your hydras dont melt to banelings (literaly) | ||
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Mvrio
689 Posts
was super happy I got into gold lol so when I play Terrans now they do deathballs of 4M's with terrible mine control. I laughed at first but then I was like oh shit. so how do I deal with that? this is me not knowing any builds anymore and just winging it everytime. been using 15p/16h if thats any good | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On September 13 2013 03:18 Mvrio wrote: ok so I got into gold :D this is from being in Diamond in WoL and Plat in HoTS but been gradually playing less and less. last season I only played like 5 games total. was super happy I got into gold lol so when I play Terrans now they do deathballs of 4M's with terrible mine control. I laughed at first but then I was like oh shit. so how do I deal with that? this is me not knowing any builds anymore and just winging it everytime. been using 15p/16h if thats any good Hatch first all the time vs Terran. 15 hatch 16 pool and gas ASAP when ou scout reaper opening, take drones off gas at 100 gas and start Zergling speed. If no double gas, this is my build order. 15 hatch 16 pool (Ovie when necessary) Double queen Another pair of queens for creep Double gas at 5:20 Speed at 100 Double Evo at 7:00 Start double ups Start lair next 100 gas (take third around 5-6:30; I haven't played SC2 in a while so I forgot exactly when) TvZ is the most micro dependent MU IMO. If they have bad control I wold shut on them, but maybe not you. Your army comp is ling/bane/muta. When you're feeling safe, tech into hive. Deny the terrans third. Scout with suicide Ovie at 6-7:30. If you see 3 CCs in total, feel safe. If you see 3+ rax, get a warren and bane nest soon. Be patient with your engagements. Try coming in from all angles, or doing the patrol-engage vs bio mine. Dont be too over aggressive, but attack and kill some SCVs if you feel he made a mistake/bad engagement. That's all I'll say. | ||
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