EPTany tips on what tactics to use against it? (im about 50% against it and I don't really know what the hell to do)
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 313
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chambertin
United States1704 Posts
any tips on what tactics to use against it? (im about 50% against it and I don't really know what the hell to do) | ||
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On September 22 2014 08:30 chambertin wrote: is anyone else facing these 2base hellbat-hellion only all-ins?? any tips on what tactics to use against it? (im about 50% against it and I don't really know what the hell to do) I've never seen this. Can you give more information on when it hits and with what? | ||
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orllyfools
United States153 Posts
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On September 22 2014 14:58 orllyfools wrote: I have an idea for a strat. Mind you I don't play, only watch. How bout a bunker soft contain into proxy siege tank against zerg? For coming with random ideas for things to try that are not viable this is not the place, like the guidelines says in the first post this thread is for helping players with advice based on viable pro strategies. Just for fun I'll give you my take on your proposal anyway, if you are thinking a soft contain on 1 base that is very hard and basically relies on you getting a successful two rax proxy off which obviously isn't really sureproof. If you do succeed that in itself gives you a very solid lead no matter what you follow it up with. If you are talking about containing the Z on 2 base that would be a pretty map dependant strategy depending on the ramp and whatnot. If you try it you need to tailor your build pretty hard just to get the bunker soft contain off (meaning no expansion). Proxy tank basically tells you plan on staying on 1 base which is basically pretty all in, you will need to stay one base until you get a tank out at the very least. At that point you are 1 base vs 2 base zerg which isn't really a bad place for him to be unless he panicks. Zerg can either plan to bust out pretty fast with any mix of roaches, lings, blings or go for swarm hosts which i think would be able to wear the contain down, not to mention possible nydus SH play. The third option would be going for mutas which I personally would think a wise choice, how would you be ablet to afford turrets around your whole base, your proxy factory and your contain? Not to mention that to stay safe from any early bust outs you would need to have pulled a few scvs to keep at the bunkers which reduces your economy even more. Simple answer, even if you succeed you would be behind, I suppose the strat could work but relies on trading VERY effectively if the zerg tries to break out and stopping any kind of harass being successful on your side of the map while expanding yourself. Overall, not a good strategy in the current meta I think. | ||
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TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On September 24 2014 21:50 TurboMaN wrote: How do you defend with gas first builds vs 2 rax reaper? I seem to lose so many scvs while defending and then u dont have enough money for banshee with cloak Simply build Hellions from your fact and micro. Watch for instance Bunny vs Cure on Catallena. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
You boys are in for a treat when my PC is back, going to be so many replays of my terrible 3 month hiatus play to try and analyse  | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On September 25 2014 20:54 Wombat_NI wrote: Is there any particular reason we don't really see the so-called qxc bunker anymore? I recall a period where it was quite fashionable as a means of delaying the spread of tumours and served well as a scout at the front for not much investment. You boys are in for a treat when my PC is back, going to be so many replays of my terrible 3 month hiatus play to try and analyse Probably because 1 rax expand isn't a thing anymore, maps are larger and the damage potential of reaper/hellion is much higher. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On September 25 2014 21:50 Meavis wrote: with a 3 month hiatus mmr decay will have fucked you so hard you won't need help =p Ye the decay is ridiculous, I got like 10 stomps in a row after the summer, as in, up to 3 leagues difference 0.0 | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On September 25 2014 21:50 Meavis wrote: with a 3 month hiatus mmr decay will have fucked you so hard you won't need help =p I quit playing because the MMR decay was kicking in way too fast. I'd have a week off, sometimes more. Grind some games from silver MMR back up to Diamondish. Next time I logged I had to repeat the process, was a pain in the ass. I don't really care that I was stomping people, just wasn't much fun. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On September 25 2014 22:18 SC2Toastie wrote: Probably because 1 rax expand isn't a thing anymore, maps are larger and the damage potential of reaper/hellion is much higher. Yeah for sure. In the case of a guy like Bomber who does occasionally bring out 1 rax gasless I'd like to see him integrate it to prevent creep spread getting out of hand. That said, Bomber fights through creep lol so he's probably sweet to not do such things | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On September 25 2014 22:22 Wombat_NI wrote: Yeah for sure. In the case of a guy like Bomber who does occasionally bring out 1 rax gasless I'd like to see him integrate it to prevent creep spread getting out of hand. That said, Bomber fights through creep lol so he's probably sweet to not do such things You have to keep in mind this bunker is also a commitment. You dedicate your marines aggressively, making you prone to runby's. It's also pretty expensive to move an SCV all over the map for a bunker, that's like, 100-150 minerals in mining time lost. It's easy to deny the bunker with a drone or a zergling as well. Lastly, this bunker was mostly used on Ohana (short rush distance, very narrow ramp) where it would cover and cut down a lot of the creep paths, and also gives you control over the watchtower for full vision over the map. On a lot of maps nowadays, you can spread creep out of bunker vision easily, which is also a factor to take into account. I just think the risk/reward is off. | ||
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Mojito99
Germany154 Posts
i was hoping to get a discussion going about this build bunny showed vs Harstem (tvp). Its essentially a CC first with a reaper. http://sc2casts.com/cast16638-Harstem-vs-Bunny-BO3-in-1-video-2014-WCS-Europe-S3-Group-Stage-2 A rough outline is 14 CC 21 Gas 3 Rax Reaper 8-9 min 3rd. The major difference is that instead of a double gas you take 1 earlier to afford the reaper. I feel like it it is superior to almost every other build because a) against 1 base pressure and early aggression: CC first is actually not bad because you are constantly producing marines instead of making a reactor after the reaper. b) you can still scout the tech at around 6 min with your reaper c) you have a significant economic edge in comparison to a normal reaper expand. What do you guys think about this build? | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On September 25 2014 23:35 Mojito99 wrote: Hey guys, i was hoping to get a discussion going about this build bunny showed vs Harstem (tvp). Its essentially a CC first with a reaper. http://sc2casts.com/cast16638-Harstem-vs-Bunny-BO3-in-1-video-2014-WCS-Europe-S3-Group-Stage-2 A rough outline is 14 CC 18 Gas 3 Rax Reaper 8-9 min 3rd. The major difference is that instead of a double gas you take 1 earlier to afford the reaper. I feel like it it is superior to almost every other build because a) against 1 base pressure and early aggression: CC first is actually not bad because you are constantly producing marines instead of making a reactor after the reaper. b) you can still scout the tech at around 6 min with your reaper c) you have a significant economic edge in comparison to a normal reaper expand. What do you guys think about this build? First seen FlaSh do this a while ago on one of his stream VODs, was very interesting and I feel hadn't been explored as much as it should. I guess you can get most of the early game information with an SCV scout, and CC first provides you with a lot more minerals 'spare' than you would usually have for defense, or to scan. The issue is getting the follow-up scout, or finding proxy tech. I am not sure how well the timing of the reaper popping out lines up with the timings you have to scout at though, but I'm sure could be accommodated for in some way. | ||
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Mojito99
Germany154 Posts
On September 25 2014 23:55 mau5mat wrote: First seen FlaSh do this a while ago on one of his stream VODs, was very interesting and I feel hadn't been explored as much as it should. I guess you can get most of the early game information with an SCV scout, and CC first provides you with a lot more minerals 'spare' than you would usually have for defense, or to scan. The issue is getting the follow-up scout, or finding proxy tech. I am not sure how well the timing of the reaper popping out lines up with the timings you have to scout at though, but I'm sure could be accommodated for in some way. Reaper can be out just before 6 min | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On September 25 2014 20:54 Wombat_NI wrote: Is there any particular reason we don't really see the so-called qxc bunker anymore? I recall a period where it was quite fashionable as a means of delaying the spread of tumours and served well as a scout at the front for not much investment. You boys are in for a treat when my PC is back, going to be so many replays of my terrible 3 month hiatus play to try and analyse On September 25 2014 22:43 SC2Toastie wrote: You have to keep in mind this bunker is also a commitment. You dedicate your marines aggressively, making you prone to runby's. It's also pretty expensive to move an SCV all over the map for a bunker, that's like, 100-150 minerals in mining time lost. It's easy to deny the bunker with a drone or a zergling as well. Lastly, this bunker was mostly used on Ohana (short rush distance, very narrow ramp) where it would cover and cut down a lot of the creep paths, and also gives you control over the watchtower for full vision over the map. On a lot of maps nowadays, you can spread creep out of bunker vision easily, which is also a factor to take into account. I just think the risk/reward is off. Yeah, overall it's just not very good. On September 25 2014 23:35 Mojito99 wrote: Hey guys, i was hoping to get a discussion going about this build bunny showed vs Harstem (tvp). Its essentially a CC first with a reaper. http://sc2casts.com/cast16638-Harstem-vs-Bunny-BO3-in-1-video-2014-WCS-Europe-S3-Group-Stage-2 A rough outline is 14 CC 21 Gas 3 Rax Reaper 8-9 min 3rd. The major difference is that instead of a double gas you take 1 earlier to afford the reaper. I feel like it it is superior to almost every other build because a) against 1 base pressure and early aggression: CC first is actually not bad because you are constantly producing marines instead of making a reactor after the reaper. b) you can still scout the tech at around 6 min with your reaper c) you have a significant economic edge in comparison to a normal reaper expand. What do you guys think about this build? A delayed Reaper scout after CC first is quite an old concept: (Done with a different build and a second Reaper.) As mau5mat said you can also find another example in Flash's play, if his unique streaming session is still archived on Twitch; from memory it's a TvP game on Frost at the beginning (Flash is top left, Protoss bottom left). The downside of this is that the Reaper comes too late to scout 1-base builds (the Reaper arrives at Protoss' base around 7' at the earliest, not 6'), and a lot of Protoss will reactively proxy/all-in you upon scouting CC first. Basically it's OK against MSC expand into whatever, but fragile against 1-base all-ins and possibly old WoL 3-4g pressure after expand. | ||
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Dunmer
United Kingdom568 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
Early raven into 2 fact fast blueflame +1 into hellbat/Tank with viking/raven support and only one armoury. Do you reckon that would be a good build for the ladder? Could you maybe list a bo or strat with a similar gameplan? | ||
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