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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On June 02 2014 16:11 Sajaki wrote:
Is a ~10 minute ghost academy tvp decent against templar openings or do mines just supersede them completely? Like, is it an option/playstyle choice or are you "forced" into mines?
The way I see it, mines are more to do with the heavy Zealot style that accompanies the Templar openings. Ghosts are good vs Templar, and Mines are good vs Zealot balls. Also, I don't think you could afford a good amount of Ghosts around 10 minutes with a 2 base economy without cutting something important
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
Why is the current top T Barcode on KR going 15CC / 15 Barracks?
I think it is Maru actually, I always thought 14CC / 15 Barracks was simply the most optimal if you are going CC first?
This is in TvP if it makes a difference, and it isn't a one-off thing either, he is doing this consistently in TvPs. Interestingly, he goes 14CC in TvZs.
EDIT: Sorry for double-post
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I am not sure but I have noticed recently Maru has been changing up a few timings based on his scouting scv. With 12 gas build he adds an extra scv so its 17 CC etc because he is scouting as opposed to the normal 16 timing without scout.
Could be he is double scouting protoss with 2 scvs or he is simply sending the scv out alot earlier than you would when going 14 CC. Hard to know without a replay of him doing it
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On June 02 2014 23:41 mau5mat wrote:
Why is the current top T Barcode on KR going 15CC / 15 Barracks?
I think it is Maru actually, I always thought 14CC / 15 Barracks was simply the most optimal if you are going CC first?
This is in TvP if it makes a difference, and it isn't a one-off thing either, he is doing this consistently in TvPs. Interestingly, he goes 14CC in TvZs.
EDIT: Sorry for double-post
Maybe this has to do with being forced to scout or to bring an extra SCV to fight off the probe (maybe the later CC makes the probe timing easier to deal with on some maps). But I don't really know, just throwing hypothesis.
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I was trying to find some good BO in TvZ with the banshee harrass (bio), can anyone please recommend some strong build?
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11 rax
11 gas
reaper
reaper
cc
reaper
factory
reactor on rax
2nd gas
starport when factory is done
swap reactor onto factory
techlab on rax to be swapped with starport when done
This is for clock
If you want no clock, then delay the 2nd gas until you start building the starport
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Gotta hit the timing with the clocked banshee tho
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On June 03 2014 08:29 KingofGods wrote:
11 rax
11 gas
reaper
reaper
cc
reaper
factory
reactor on rax
2nd gas
starport when factory is done
swap reactor onto factory
techlab on rax to be swapped with starport when done
This is for clock
If you want no clock, then delay the 2nd gas until you start building the starport
Thank you very much. 
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Hi! I have been theory crafting a bit for myself about tvz, if you scout a quite fast 3rd and double evos, how strong can a helbat-bio 2base all-in be, and is this viable?
I was thinking something like this:
NO 3rd CC
NO ebays
NO scv production after minimum (32+6 in gas?)
Keep making helions from reactor factory
As much bio as possible, 4-6 rax
2-4 medivacs (or not?)
Armory ready right on timing and transform helis.
Hit hard when it hurts the most, right before their 1-1?
I have a soultrain-like timing in mind, hitting so hard its not enough just to scout it, but of course it needs to be optimized and have good control.
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Haven't really played starcraft in like several months. Started playing through my bonus pool and currently diamond 1. The only matchup that is bugging me at the moment is tvz, specifically muta-ling.
Just wondering what the general idea is when playing vs a zerg that goes mass muta. I've been playing very vanilla marine-tank-medvac into thors + marauder/hellbats. If I don't severely set zerg back with an early push, it just seems that every other push is cleaned up before reaching his base and then zerg just forces a base trade by running 30 or so mutas into my main or just starves me out.
Should I just turtle till I have a capped 3-3 army, or do I gamble that zerg will flat out fail and run his mutas into a minefield? The only thing I can think of doing is just spreading out and turtle on 4 bases then going all-in with a thor-hellbat-tank-marauder-medvac ball with maybe some ravens.
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On June 03 2014 18:45 Rowrin wrote:
Haven't really played starcraft in like several months. Started playing through my bonus pool and currently diamond 1. The only matchup that is bugging me at the moment is tvz, specifically muta-ling.
Just wondering what the general idea is when playing vs a zerg that goes mass muta. I've been playing very vanilla marine-tank-medvac into thors + marauder/hellbats. If I don't severely set zerg back with an early push, it just seems that every other push is cleaned up before reaching his base and then zerg just forces a base trade by running 30 or so mutas into my main or just starves me out.
Should I just turtle till I have a capped 3-3 army, or do I gamble that zerg will flat out fail and run his mutas into a minefield? The only thing I can think of doing is just spreading out and turtle on 4 bases then going all-in with a thor-hellbat-tank-marauder-medvac ball with maybe some ravens.
The current meta goal is to non-stop pressure the zerg with drops and positional play on his b3/b4 to trade constantly reducing the amount of mutalisks. If the zerg succeed to defend your aggressions with only ling bane without muta support you loose because muta harass can be endgame if he goes above your production.
I tried to use more and more tanks in the matchup because it kind of force mutas to be on the fight and not harassing. Try also to add thors in the mid/lategame to your composition.
Widow mines are now bordeline crap vs zerg and also are easy to snipe with mutas and overseer.
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I think tanks are only useful vs roach/hydra or going mech vs z. Rather go mines or helions/helbats into thors. The key timing is the 2-2 bio which can kill the zergs 4th. If no 4th, no big mutaball. If this fails, try to have a nice army when 3-3 finishes and go for the kill. Keep the preasure, every bling is gas not spent on his mutaball.
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On June 03 2014 18:45 Rowrin wrote:
Haven't really played starcraft in like several months. Started playing through my bonus pool and currently diamond 1. The only matchup that is bugging me at the moment is tvz, specifically muta-ling.
Just wondering what the general idea is when playing vs a zerg that goes mass muta. I've been playing very vanilla marine-tank-medvac into thors + marauder/hellbats. If I don't severely set zerg back with an early push, it just seems that every other push is cleaned up before reaching his base and then zerg just forces a base trade by running 30 or so mutas into my main or just starves me out.
Should I just turtle till I have a capped 3-3 army, or do I gamble that zerg will flat out fail and run his mutas into a minefield? The only thing I can think of doing is just spreading out and turtle on 4 bases then going all-in with a thor-hellbat-tank-marauder-medvac ball with maybe some ravens.
Heres two replays of QXC that might help. 30 minutes marines vs muta ling on Waystation and Frost.
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/530222
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/530139
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On June 03 2014 05:02 [BSP]Kain wrote:
I was trying to find some good BO in TvZ with the banshee harrass (bio), can anyone please recommend some strong build?
A TvZ cloak banshee build gets hellions and then cloak-banshee for pressure at the Zergs third, and generally goes off of a 3CC build, preceded by CC first or 12/12 Reaper.
TvZ Reaper Hellion 3CC
10 Depot
12 Barracks
12 Gas (1)
15 Orbital
15 Reaper
17 Depot (2)
17 Reaper (2)
@400 Minerals; Expand
---------------------------------------
- Reactor + Factory
- 3rd CC
After this, you get gas (2) when Fac is halfway done, make a tech lab from the barracks after you have swapped the factory on the reactor, and then swap the starport on the tech lab and get cloak and banshee production.
You are basically delaying stim and upgrades slightly to have a stronger army, after this you can go into Bio or Mech, by getting x2 engi bay or x2 armory, and then hitting your convergence point with the required infrastructure for bio or mech.
EDIT: Read this for further info; http://terrancraft.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/banshee-openings-in-tvz-metagame/
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What is best way to deal fast roach push when cc first? It will hit when i have 2 marine in bunker and first helions on the way. Wall bunker and mass repair?
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On June 03 2014 20:54 surreal1600 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 18:45 Rowrin wrote:
Haven't really played starcraft in like several months. Started playing through my bonus pool and currently diamond 1. The only matchup that is bugging me at the moment is tvz, specifically muta-ling.
Just wondering what the general idea is when playing vs a zerg that goes mass muta. I've been playing very vanilla marine-tank-medvac into thors + marauder/hellbats. If I don't severely set zerg back with an early push, it just seems that every other push is cleaned up before reaching his base and then zerg just forces a base trade by running 30 or so mutas into my main or just starves me out.
Should I just turtle till I have a capped 3-3 army, or do I gamble that zerg will flat out fail and run his mutas into a minefield? The only thing I can think of doing is just spreading out and turtle on 4 bases then going all-in with a thor-hellbat-tank-marauder-medvac ball with maybe some ravens. Heres two replays of QXC that might help. 30 minutes marines vs muta ling on Waystation and Frost. http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/530222http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/530139
Thanks, very insightful. Guess tanks are out except vs roach hydra.
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On June 02 2014 23:41 mau5mat wrote:
Why is the current top T Barcode on KR going 15CC / 15 Barracks?
I think it is Maru actually, I always thought 14CC / 15 Barracks was simply the most optimal if you are going CC first?
This is in TvP if it makes a difference, and it isn't a one-off thing either, he is doing this consistently in TvPs. Interestingly, he goes 14CC in TvZs.
EDIT: Sorry for double-post
if maru goes cc first then its 14 supply, this is what he does it proleague at least. Some players just don't like the idea of cutting workers for a split second to expand. That's why Dear/Classic gets his nexus at 16, but Parting/herO gets it at 15. In some rare cases 14cc is a bit safer because it denies the possibility of a proxy hatch (if u plan on placing it on low ground). But then again, against zerg u use cc as part of the ramp wall mostly. The other reason for 14cc is it allows your barracks to line up with ur expand so u can make 2 orbitals + marines.
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So I've been kind of struggling with TvP(50% plat). It seem like the only ways I can win is the good ol' medivac rush usually this hits when he has only 1 colossi(no range) and I can draw his army out of position and attack in two spots. Though I doubt this actually has a good winrate since a lot of my TvP are usually defend wins, 2gate proxy(always beat this), proxy oracle, blink all in.
I'm just wondering when the protoss player only has 1 or 2 colossi and no storm, is this the ideal time for a SCV all in? If I start to attempt SCV all-ins I would prefer not to get 3rd CC. I'm definitely would like to pull SCVs before 13-14 minute mark. Is an 11-12 minute Bio/Medivac/SCV viable, or is there something specific I should be looking for before pulling SCVs. Cause I've seen pros pulling SCVs at a lot of different times with a lot of different results. Thanks.
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On June 04 2014 08:03 Ottoman042 wrote:
So I've been kind of struggling with TvP(50% plat). It seem like the only ways I can win is the good ol' medivac rush usually this hits when he has only 1 colossi(no range) and I can draw his army out of position and attack in two spots. Though I doubt this actually has a good winrate since a lot of my TvP are usually defend wins, 2gate proxy(always beat this), proxy oracle, blink all in.
I'm just wondering when the protoss player only has 1 or 2 colossi and no storm, is this the ideal time for a SCV all in? If I start to attempt SCV all-ins I would prefer not to get 3rd CC. I'm definitely would like to pull SCVs before 13-14 minute mark. Is an 11-12 minute Bio/Medivac/SCV viable, or is there something specific I should be looking for before pulling SCVs. Cause I've seen pros pulling SCVs at a lot of different times with a lot of different results. Thanks.
Yes that would be the correct time to pull SCV's, but you should also look for the 3rd base. If the protoss is not taking a 3rd base they might also be preparing an attack off 2 bases. Be aware though that the only beneficial outcome is possibly giving you a better win rate. Pulling scvs off two bases and attacking is not going to help you get better vs protoss. So if you want to improve I would advise trying new strategies to further your game knowledge as well as working to improve your fundamentals.
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On June 03 2014 16:38 Slydie wrote:
Hi! I have been theory crafting a bit for myself about tvz, if you scout a quite fast 3rd and double evos, how strong can a helbat-bio 2base all-in be, and is this viable?
I was thinking something like this:
NO 3rd CC
NO ebays
NO scv production after minimum (32+6 in gas?)
Keep making helions from reactor factory
As much bio as possible, 4-6 rax
2-4 medivacs (or not?)
Armory ready right on timing and transform helis.
Hit hard when it hurts the most, right before their 1-1?
I have a soultrain-like timing in mind, hitting so hard its not enough just to scout it, but of course it needs to be optimized and have good control.
The key in any 2 base play against zerg is kill before mutas. Resource wise it's actually quite easy to do - instead of building 3rd CC after factory just throw down a couple more raxes. I think a push like this, best case scenario is that you kill his 3rd.......and then eventually die to mutas.
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EPT
