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The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 281

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
Dunmer
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom568 Posts
May 27 2014 22:18 GMT
#5601
Pull 8 workers and mineral walk to surround and kill the Zealot easily and try and get the stalker the same way. 2 marines go into the bunker as this hits off a normal timing.

Use your reaper to pick the zealot so it is forced back to the zealot to give you time to build your bunker. Then when you have 4 marines kill the MSC or force it to retreat. You can out heal(repair) a MSC
All Ireland Starcraft, check us out on Facebook
KaiserCommander
Profile Joined April 2010
Mexico290 Posts
May 27 2014 23:08 GMT
#5602
Playing TvT, in raw power, what's more powerfull, Bio or Mech play?.
Jinro, Polt, Bomber, ForGG, MajOr, Flash, Maru. Terran Fighting...
Dunmer
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom568 Posts
May 27 2014 23:19 GMT
#5603
In raw power? Straight up fight mech is usually much more powerful. Unless bio gets a huge concave and or the mech player is unsieged, the bio player will lose generally when running into a pre seiged line.

However in a the real world its not often like this as bio harass' you and tries to force bad engagements
All Ireland Starcraft, check us out on Facebook
Pursuit_
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States1330 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-28 00:47:30
May 27 2014 23:33 GMT
#5604
On May 28 2014 08:08 KaiserCommander wrote:
Playing TvT, in raw power, what's more powerfull, Bio or Mech play?.


Really interesting question, in terms of Maurader Heavy MMM + Tank (or BioTank) vs Hellbat / Tank / Viking I feel like it's pretty even, in even numbers the defending player will typically win.

I think that BioTank is better at winning 'that one battle' where they catch their opponent out of position / get that one doom drop / catch the mech player offguard with an air transition. This makes BioTank better at breaking a fortified position or getting a luck engagement and winning the game IMO. BioTank also has better mobility and is better at splitting up their army in 2-3 groups.

Hellbat + Tank + Viking is better at winning those slow attrition battles where they move tanks up a few pixels at a time, maintaining air control and choking their opponent out. The army scales better in big numbers (especially where almost all the gas is going into Tanks), but is a lot weaker when spread over multiple fronts.

Once a Mech army gets a decent number of Ravens added in for PDD and has secured air control however, I dont think a BioTank army can win a direct engagement.

If you just mean pure MMM vs Mech however, I think Mech will almost always win straight up engagements in medium-large numbers and lose in small-medium numbers.
In Somnis Veritas
KaiserCommander
Profile Joined April 2010
Mexico290 Posts
May 28 2014 21:10 GMT
#5605
I made te question about mech vs bio 'cause in the WoL time I practically never went mech in my TvT, however, with the adition of the Hellbat in HotS (and some defeats vs mech using my old MMM style) I changed to use mech by myself with a relatively good win ratio, but now I'm getting defeats when my opponent use Bio-tank with a predominance of Marauders, Hellbats are just not good versus Marauders, so it came to mi mind what style is the strongest now.
Jinro, Polt, Bomber, ForGG, MajOr, Flash, Maru. Terran Fighting...
Bulugulu
Profile Joined March 2011
Israel250 Posts
May 28 2014 21:27 GMT
#5606
Another thing to note regarding the bio vs mech discussion is the new map pool.
As someone noted recently in this thread, the new map pool features more wide open maps with distant 3rd bases as opposed to maps in the previous 2 map pools and even further back (akilon wastes for example).
The wide open maps give an advantage to zerg which has been accounted for, but also help in bio vs mech.
Personally I've started playing again recently, and in 40ish tvts I haven't encountered a mech player yet for whatever reason.

However, I think no one doubts that a sieged up maxed mech army (20+tanks with support) will always beat a bio army unless certain conditions are met (massive flank and/or air control so that you drop units right on the tanks).
The hellbats may not be effective at killing the marauders but they function primarily as meat shields while the tanks slaughter everything.
“Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.”
Helikptrfisk
Profile Joined February 2012
Sweden35 Posts
May 29 2014 11:39 GMT
#5607
In PvT I open 1reap FE, engiebay, +1-2 rax depending on map whereas one gets a techlab. From there I have troubles matching my gas-income for the factory-SP-medivacs.

Any easy way for when to get the gasses depending on 1 or 2 extra raxes? Btw I also want to get another reactor on the factory for mines
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
May 29 2014 11:47 GMT
#5608
On May 29 2014 06:27 Bulugulu wrote:
The wide open maps give an advantage to zerg which has been accounted for, but also help in bio vs mech.
Personally I've started playing again recently, and in 40ish tvts I haven't encountered a mech player yet for whatever reason.

Yep, same.

On May 29 2014 20:39 Helikptrfisk wrote:
In PvT I open 1reap FE, engiebay, +1-2 rax depending on map whereas one gets a techlab. From there I have troubles matching my gas-income for the factory-SP-medivacs.

Any easy way for when to get the gasses depending on 1 or 2 extra raxes? Btw I also want to get another reactor on the factory for mines

Just get your second and third gas when building your Factory (~6'45), ~9'30 fourth gas.
Helikptrfisk
Profile Joined February 2012
Sweden35 Posts
May 29 2014 11:56 GMT
#5609
No difference if I only go 2 raxes total? Because I need gas for stim and +1 armor soon also.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
May 29 2014 12:05 GMT
#5610
On May 29 2014 20:56 Helikptrfisk wrote:
No difference if I only go 2 raxes total? Because I need gas for stim and +1 armor soon also.

No difference. If you get Concussive and one Marauder before stim, you may get your second and third gas slightly earlier though.
Helikptrfisk
Profile Joined February 2012
Sweden35 Posts
May 29 2014 12:38 GMT
#5611
Ok. Thank you
Helikptrfisk
Profile Joined February 2012
Sweden35 Posts
May 29 2014 23:53 GMT
#5612
How many scvs do I want to get in the diffent match-ups?

TvT: Bio / Marine-tank
TvZ: BioMech / BioMine
TvP: Bio going for Ghost Viking
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
May 30 2014 01:24 GMT
#5613
On May 30 2014 08:53 Helikptrfisk wrote:
How many scvs do I want to get in the diffent match-ups?

TvT: Bio / Marine-tank
TvZ: BioMech / BioMine
TvP: Bio going for Ghost Viking


Enough for 3 base saturation until you have enough orbitals for MULEs to begin saccing them for a greater army value
Bulugulu
Profile Joined March 2011
Israel250 Posts
May 30 2014 03:25 GMT
#5614
On May 30 2014 08:53 Helikptrfisk wrote:
How many scvs do I want to get in the diffent match-ups?

TvT: Bio / Marine-tank
TvZ: BioMech / BioMine
TvP: Bio going for Ghost Viking


Depends on the composition and how gas heavy you're going to be early on (adding early factories for tanks and getting all your upgrades asap, or prioritizing bio). If you grab all your gasses asap you're gonna want 66ish to cover 3 base saturation.
In TvZ some terrans go 5 gas so that you add your +3 rax (8 total) earlier and have a larger bio force, while delaying 2nd and 3rd factory a little bit and possible delaying 3-3 slightly.
Ideally stay between 65-70, until you can afford to throw some away - especially in TvP where you want to start adding orbitals after your 4th base and sacking scvs to increase your army size.
“Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.”
PinheadXXXXXX
Profile Joined February 2012
United States897 Posts
May 30 2014 04:31 GMT
#5615
On May 30 2014 08:53 Helikptrfisk wrote:
How many scvs do I want to get in the diffent match-ups?

TvT: Bio / Marine-tank
TvZ: BioMech / BioMine
TvP: Bio going for Ghost Viking

I'd say for TvT you should have around 65 or even as low as 60 for marine tank vs marine tank, but you can go up to around 70 for bio vs. mech as you will want to have a somewhat saturated early fourth a lot of the time. TvZ you can go as high as 75 if you constantly trade but if you play Fantasy-style biomech you should stay closer to 65. TvP if you stay more passive with ghost-viking you can have around 65 in the midgame but in the lategame you should have closer to 30 if you have enough orbitals.
Taeja the one true Byunjwa~
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
May 30 2014 09:08 GMT
#5616
On May 30 2014 08:53 Helikptrfisk wrote:
How many scvs do I want to get in the diffent match-ups?

TvT: Bio / Marine-tank
TvZ: BioMech / BioMine
TvP: Bio going for Ghost Viking

55-60 to 65-70 depending on the openings and how early/late you take third.
60-65 to 70-75 depending on whether you play 3-bases all-in or not.
70-75.
Nightshake
Profile Joined November 2010
France412 Posts
May 30 2014 11:34 GMT
#5617
Is Biomech a lot played on ladder in TvZ ? I hear a lot about this but I don't really know how to play it. What's the good composition ? What's the good build order to go Biomech ?
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
May 30 2014 12:05 GMT
#5618
On May 30 2014 20:34 Nightshake wrote:
Is Biomech a lot played on ladder in TvZ ? I hear a lot about this but I don't really know how to play it. What's the good composition ? What's the good build order to go Biomech ?

It depends what you call biomech:

1. Bio/Hellbats/Thors;
2. Mech into bio/mech;
3. Marines/(Marauders)/Tanks.

?
yido
Profile Joined March 2014
United States350 Posts
May 30 2014 15:29 GMT
#5619
On May 30 2014 20:34 Nightshake wrote:
Is Biomech a lot played on ladder in TvZ ? I hear a lot about this but I don't really know how to play it. What's the good composition ? What's the good build order to go Biomech ?


I assume you mean MMM with hellbats and thors.
It is popular on ladder these days.
Best way I've seen it done is a reaper into reaper hellion into 2 medvac marine hellion reaper push.
transition into the mid game with the first mech upgrade with 2-2.
the mid game usually looks exactly like a widow mine MMM.
After you add the second factory (usually after 5 rax is up but some go as long as start their 3-3 before adding it), start bfh upgrade on the tech on 2nd factory as you add thors as well.

This isn't really bio-mech as some like to think. More like bio with few mech units to soak up blings.
I think the term bio-mech is really just players/casters missing the bio into mech in BW.
gl hf
NexT_SC2
Profile Joined May 2013
United States117 Posts
May 31 2014 02:30 GMT
#5620
Hi I'm a low-mid gold league terran player. I know that my macro is the most important thing up to like plat, but I feel like my tvt and tvp buid orders are just not clean. I don't know what specific build order I go for and just wing it. I have also played some games where I don't know what I could have done better (asides from my macro) yet I still lose. here's an example: http://drop.sc/381762

There are also games where I scout thoroughly but still don't what's coming, ex;
http://drop.sc/381761

Appreciate your help and any additional tips, thanks!
Taeja | Maru | Byun <3
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