EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 272
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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newbornducky
42 Posts
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DaveSprite
United States79 Posts
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B-rye88
Canada168 Posts
On April 17 2014 17:16 newbornducky wrote: What composition should you get against the mass mass baneling style that True used against Ty tonight? Ty went marine tank and he still got roll over. If bio tank doesn't work, I do not think mines or helbats will do any good against that among of banelings... Fewer marines. More marauders. Hellbats are OK. Mines are cool. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
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DBS
515 Posts
On April 18 2014 10:02 aZealot wrote: Hello, I'm off-racing as Terran this season and would like to play Mech in all match-ups. The OP does not seem to have Mech resources. Are there specific Mech resources that you can recommend? Secondly, I want to play aggressively and with timing attacks as far as possible (I really want to change up from my usual macro Protoss style this season). So, any recommendations you have in this regard would also be welcome. Thanks, chaps. Mech tends to on the whole be more passive, so if you want to be aggresive i would reccomend bio based play, there are ways to be aggressive, but the immobility of mech lends itself to defensive play | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On April 18 2014 10:45 DBS wrote: Mech tends to on the whole be more passive, so if you want to be aggresive i would reccomend bio based play, there are ways to be aggressive, but the immobility of mech lends itself to defensive play By aggressive, I don't mean in the same way as with Bio play. I guess I mean Mech play which doesn't mean turtling. That would be boring. Maybe, I'll just wing it and see how I do. :D Edit/ I'd prefer not to play Bio because, honestly, I find Bio dull. Nvm, found http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/396525-hots-terran-mech-resources-q-and-a. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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Ouija
United States129 Posts
On April 18 2014 10:54 aZealot wrote: By aggressive, I don't mean in the same way as with Bio play. I guess I mean Mech play which doesn't mean turtling. That would be boring. Maybe, I'll just wing it and see how I do. :D Edit/ I'd prefer not to play Bio because, honestly, I find Bio dull. Nvm, found http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/396525-hots-terran-mech-resources-q-and-a. Just in case you come back to check responses here after finding mech thread. I like to get aggressive as well when i play mech which is 90% of my games. And the only race I have trouble getting aggressive against with a mid game army is zerg. Which is why vs zerg I would just advise constantly poking around with hellions until you get a big army. I never really tried the hellbat thor banshee push terrans were doing recently vs zerg so maybe that is something you should look into. TvT when meching you can get aggressive whenever you want to, either by just containing them with some tanks, hellions, and a turret or two with some mines to make sure they cant drop on top of contain. A lot of people dont think you can be aggressive vs toss with mech(which is somewhat true), but what I have noticed is that often when a protoss player realizes the terran is meching they like to get very greedy and immediately take their third base. That is typically my cue to get aggressive because they skipped the high tech in order to throw down the faster third so you can push out with a few tanks and whatnot. Other than that specific situation, which is a quite common occurrence, it is very hard to get aggressive vs protoss IMO. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On April 18 2014 15:07 Ouija wrote: Just in case you come back to check responses here after finding mech thread. I like to get aggressive as well when i play mech which is 90% of my games. And the only race I have trouble getting aggressive against with a mid game army is zerg. Which is why vs zerg I would just advise constantly poking around with hellions until you get a big army. I never really tried the hellbat thor banshee push terrans were doing recently vs zerg so maybe that is something you should look into. TvT when meching you can get aggressive whenever you want to, either by just containing them with some tanks, hellions, and a turret or two with some mines to make sure they cant drop on top of contain. A lot of people dont think you can be aggressive vs toss with mech(which is somewhat true), but what I have noticed is that often when a protoss player realizes the terran is meching they like to get very greedy and immediately take their third base. That is typically my cue to get aggressive because they skipped the high tech in order to throw down the faster third so you can push out with a few tanks and whatnot. Other than that specific situation, which is a quite common occurrence, it is very hard to get aggressive vs protoss IMO. Thanks. That's very useful. Been playing a few games today and getting my ass kicked, but it's been fun. | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On April 18 2014 11:03 Chaggi wrote: I have an intense amount of trouble facing Pheonix/Colossi. I know the fundamental technique vs it, but I just can't execute it properly. However, I always see casters and really a lack of pros doing it in games (except the Chinese). Is there a reason why? Is it really that weak if you know how to fight against it? Was watching cElhaym play against this style yesterday. He says he doesn't understand why it isn't more popular, because it is really strong. I think he said to build an in disproportionate amount of vikings to deal with it, and to kite the Pheonix with the vikings. He also said it was somewhat vulnerable to SCV pulls, apart from that I'm not sure. I will defer to someone who knows more about the style than I do | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On April 18 2014 22:05 mau5mat wrote: Was watching cElhaym play against this style yesterday. He says he doesn't understand why it isn't more popular, because it is really strong. I think he said to build an in disproportionate amount of vikings to deal with it, and to kite the Pheonix with the vikings. He also said it was somewhat vulnerable to SCV pulls, apart from that I'm not sure. I will defer to someone who knows more about the style than I do I used to struggle vs this style too, what I do vs it now is go for a faster 3rd cc and 3 port viking production (usually 2 reactor 1 naked for 5 vikings at a time), cut SCV's around 65, get a big marine / maurader ball up and max out around 14:30 with 2/2 upgrades and 2-3 Ghosts, then pull ALL my SCV's from 3 base. Protoss going Pheonix + Collosi can only really have enough gas to have one of upgrades, HT or ranged gateway units (Sentry / Stalker) by that timing, so just make sure you target down Collosi first with Vikings and EMP the bulk of his army (trying to hit HT if your opponent has them, but he can't really have more than a couple storms and from my experience you can usually afford to eat a couple). If at any point your opponent stops making Collosi and/or Pheonix to get more gas for other things (HT / upgrades ect), you can just attack and win at that timing since the composition is really fragile and relies a lot on high Collosi + Pheonix counts. If your opponent is lacking in either you just roll over their army. edit: I guess the only other thing worth mentioning is that you can often delay the third quite a bit with just a big marine / medivac force since your opponent typically only has 1-3 Collosi, 3-6 Pheonix and a small handful of gateway units around the 10-12 minute mark, but it can also be really risky because you can't afford to lose any army. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
Please help me, I lost 10 games to Zerg today, my head is about to explode. I feel like I can kill half of zergs drones and 10 mins later I'm dying to whatever he makes. Roach hydra, mass muta, swarm hosts, anything with vipers, I just don't know how to win  | ||
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Fission
Canada1184 Posts
On April 18 2014 11:03 Chaggi wrote: I have an intense amount of trouble facing Pheonix/Colossi. I know the fundamental technique vs it, but I just can't execute it properly. However, I always see casters and really a lack of pros doing it in games (except the Chinese). Is there a reason why? Is it really that weak if you know how to fight against it? I think it's weak if you identify it quickly enough and know how to react. My preferred answer to it is to immediately start a second starport (sometimes a 3rd) as soon as I determine that they're going pheonix/collo, using the fact to build a second reactor for it, and playing slightly more economically greedy while I power up a 3 base eco. Try to delay their 3rd for as long as you can, but don't trade medivacs to do so. That composition can't really move out before they get a critical number of collosus/pheonix, so you don't really need to worry too much. Obviously don't bother trying to drop - you want to conserve every single medivac you build because you want to be using 100% of your starport time for vikings. After this - standard rules/timings apply. My preference is to try to hit a pre-storm timing with scvs pulled - my reasoning is that with a composition as gas-heavy as collo/pheonix (with storm transition inc), the protoss player will tend to have the build of their army as zealots, so scvs are an ideal buffer. You should have your original 4 medivacs and at least 4 vikings per collo they have, so assuming you started viking production off 2 reactors @ ~11:30 ish, so assuming you hit around 14 mins ish, you shoud have about 16 vikings? You want to target fire collosus and just completely ignore the pheonix. There's some ambiguity here because if they have storm complete, you will want ~3 ghosts with your pull, but then you have to go with 2/1 upgrades instead of 2/2 probably. My 2 cents. Not guaranteed to be accurate or helpful. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
Can someone recommend me a couple of good meching Terran streamers? Thanks. | ||
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Aquila-
516 Posts
On April 19 2014 05:48 Saechiis wrote: http://drop.sc/378931 Please help me, I lost 10 games to Zerg today, my head is about to explode. I feel like I can kill half of zergs drones and 10 mins later I'm dying to whatever he makes. Roach hydra, mass muta, swarm hosts, anything with vipers, I just don't know how to win Dont go 3 factory 1 starport off 2 CCs. Open 1-1-1 with hellion banshee then make your third CC, that can hold any attack, or just 2 factory blueflame but that is a gamble. Around 20 min you attack into 22 swarmhosts with mostly tanks, unsieged, and siege during battle. You cant fight free units like, you lose your army and he loses nothing. I would not fight this amount of swarmhosts on the ground, get enough tanks to survive and make PFs, dont attack and transition into air with a lot of ravens while expanding. Around 25 minute again, you attack, get blinding clouded and lose all tanks. Because you have to remake them to not die, you dont have money to go skyterran. Just dont attack. Dont go straight to BCs. First you need vikings, then you make ravens, and once you have a good raven viking count maaaybe you can add a few BCs to yamato spores, but dont make too many, they get abducted easily. So yeah, dont attack, use the money to get ravens. Most of my games vs zerg I lose because I attacked when I shouldnt have. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On April 19 2014 06:49 Aquila- wrote: Dont go 3 factory 1 starport off 2 CCs. Open 1-1-1 with hellion banshee then make your third CC, that can hold any attack, or just 2 factory blueflame but that is a gamble. Around 20 min you attack into 22 swarmhosts with mostly tanks, unsieged, and siege during battle. You cant fight free units like, you lose your army and he loses nothing. I would not fight this amount of swarmhosts on the ground, get enough tanks to survive and make PFs, dont attack and transition into air with a lot of ravens while expanding. Around 25 minute again, you attack, get blinding clouded and lose all tanks. Because you have to remake them to not die, you dont have money to go skyterran. Just dont attack. Dont go straight to BCs. First you need vikings, then you make ravens, and once you have a good raven viking count maaaybe you can add a few BCs to yamato spores, but dont make too many, they get abducted easily. So yeah, dont attack, use the money to get ravens. Most of my games vs zerg I lose because I attacked when I shouldnt have. Thanks for watching! Any way I can just kill a Zerg with mech when I kill half his drones and am ahead on basically everything? I don't like turtling which is why I contest map control heavily with hellions early on, I feel there must be a timing when I kill that many drones, but I'm not sure with what unit composition and whether I should still go double ups etc. | ||
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Milantes
Germany22 Posts
On April 19 2014 19:41 Saechiis wrote: Thanks for watching! Any way I can just kill a Zerg with mech when I kill half his drones and am ahead on basically everything? I don't like turtling which is why I contest map control heavily with hellions early on, I feel there must be a timing when I kill that many drones, but I'm not sure with what unit composition and whether I should still go double ups etc. If enough damage is done your 2/2 timing should be able to kill your Zerg opponent like always. Don't cut on upgrades or anything, if you're ahead you wanna get more ahead and hit a nice timing. Go Reaper FE / CC first, into Hellion Banshee, adding your 3rd CC ASAP after followed by double armory & double gas @ nat. Up to 5 factories after. Double armories should go down at 8:00 as benchmark, 2/2 takes 7 minutes in total after armories are started so your 2/2 timing should be at 15-16 minutes. Usually hitting that timing is a good idea, especially if you're ahead. Pull some scv's for repair. So you stat aggression with reaper / hellion / banshee followed by a defensive period, at which point the Zerg usually goes Muta / Roach, after deflecting the aggression your 2/2 timing hits, and the better you did dmg / defended earlier the stronger the timing will be. Can't really call the defensive period after the initial hellion banshee harrass "turtling" because the Zerg kinda has to do something at that point, doesn't wanna let you get away uncontested with 3CC + Double Armory, if he doesn't do anything you're completely fine, hit your timing, win or continue the game ( should take 4th while pushing or even earlier ). | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On April 19 2014 21:11 Milantes wrote: If enough damage is done your 2/2 timing should be able to kill your Zerg opponent like always. Don't cut on upgrades or anything, if you're ahead you wanna get more ahead and hit a nice timing. Go Reaper FE / CC first, into Hellion Banshee, adding your 3rd CC ASAP after followed by double armory & double gas @ nat. Up to 5 factories after. Double armories should go down at 8:00 as benchmark, 2/2 takes 7 minutes in total after armories are started so your 2/2 timing should be at 15-16 minutes. Usually hitting that timing is a good idea, especially if you're ahead. Pull some scv's for repair. So you stat aggression with reaper / hellion / banshee followed by a defensive period, at which point the Zerg usually goes Muta / Roach, after deflecting the aggression your 2/2 timing hits, and the better you did dmg / defended earlier the stronger the timing will be. Can't really call the defensive period after the initial hellion banshee harrass "turtling" because the Zerg kinda has to do something at that point, doesn't wanna let you get away uncontested with 3CC + Double Armory, if he doesn't do anything you're completely fine, hit your timing, win or continue the game ( should take 4th while pushing or even earlier ). I think I need compositional advice, I did a 2/2 timing at 18 mins, but as said I mismicroed mis-scanned and ran into blindcloud and swarm hosts, losing everything for nothing basically. In WoL I could do a hive timing but versus swarm host viper a pure ground mech composition seems to be worthless, especially tanks. This is my first week back playing after I stopped playing WoL so I'm still trying to understand how the new units affect the gameplay. As an aside, swarm host dumbest unit ever. Anyways, I'm trying to find ways of play where I can remain active with my forces. I'll try doomdropping next time see what happens  | ||
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PanzerElite
540 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On April 19 2014 22:55 PanzerElite wrote: vs swarmhosts the only answer is pdd since you can't trade gas for free units..... Or a shit tons of tanks do the job too. Almost 90% of my game the only sky I make is vikings and I still had 66% wr last season with it. | ||
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