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On December 19 2013 21:33 klup wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 20:30 Fjodorov wrote:
Ive been trying to play with hellbats instead of WM, and I must say its working out pretty well. It might be because so many zergs these days are going so heavy on the lings. Im getting run over by huge amounts of lings/blings in the midgame when I play WM so I thought I would try hellbats and I feel im trading much more efficient. Hellbats reduce the ling numbers greatly and it forces the zerg to really hit those injects to keep up. I find that its really important to have atleast 1 rax making marauders all the time to reduce the impact of banelings.
Anyone else trying hellbats instead of WM, and how is that going for you? I don't know what is your league but in mine (top diamond) zergs are crushing hellbat bio composition with a large amount of baneling. The problem with hellbat mixing with bio is that their hard counter is basically the same (mass baneling). Mass lings shouldn't be a problem when you have good macro because marines/medivac trade very well with speedlings in general.
Im mid diamond atm. I too often just see the zerg a-move mass lings/banes over my WM and not taking much damage at all. Atleast not enough damage. With hellbats and bio I feel much more in control and can focus 100% on splitting and pulling marines back from the marauders and hellbats. Hellbats are so efficient agaisnt lings that if you get a good trade in a battle and have some hellbats left it can snowball really fast, unlike WM.
Ive only played 10 games with this style so its not like im saying this is the shit. Was just wondering if someone else had tried it.
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On December 20 2013 03:59 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 21:33 klup wrote:On December 19 2013 20:30 Fjodorov wrote:
Ive been trying to play with hellbats instead of WM, and I must say its working out pretty well. It might be because so many zergs these days are going so heavy on the lings. Im getting run over by huge amounts of lings/blings in the midgame when I play WM so I thought I would try hellbats and I feel im trading much more efficient. Hellbats reduce the ling numbers greatly and it forces the zerg to really hit those injects to keep up. I find that its really important to have atleast 1 rax making marauders all the time to reduce the impact of banelings.
Anyone else trying hellbats instead of WM, and how is that going for you? I don't know what is your league but in mine (top diamond) zergs are crushing hellbat bio composition with a large amount of baneling. The problem with hellbat mixing with bio is that their hard counter is basically the same (mass baneling). Mass lings shouldn't be a problem when you have good macro because marines/medivac trade very well with speedlings in general. Im mid diamond atm. I too often just see the zerg a-move mass lings/banes over my WM and not taking much damage at all. Atleast not enough damage. With hellbats I feel much more in control with hellbats and bio I feel much more in control and can focus 100% on splitting and pulling marines back from the marauders and hellbats. Hellbats are so efficient agaisnt lings that if you get a good trade in a battle and have some hellbats left it can snowball really fast, unlike WM. Ive only played 10 games with this style so its not like im saying this is the shit. Was just wondering if someone else had tried it.
Demuslim used to play bio hellbat and it worked quite well. You just need to be always presplit and the zerg will never be able to win a fight before ultralisk.
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Use Marauders in your army. When the Zerg player attacks you with his Ling/Baneling-Army stim, select your marines and split them behind the Marauders. Most of the Zerg just a-click so the Banelings will target the Marauders which tank a lot of damage.
Also always try to make them fight at more than one position. Drop everywhere and find weaknesses 
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Hi Everyone. I am new to terran and enjoy playing bio. Could anyone give me a link to a current meta Build order for Bio in TvT. Thanx
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On December 20 2013 03:59 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 21:33 klup wrote:On December 19 2013 20:30 Fjodorov wrote:
Ive been trying to play with hellbats instead of WM, and I must say its working out pretty well. It might be because so many zergs these days are going so heavy on the lings. Im getting run over by huge amounts of lings/blings in the midgame when I play WM so I thought I would try hellbats and I feel im trading much more efficient. Hellbats reduce the ling numbers greatly and it forces the zerg to really hit those injects to keep up. I find that its really important to have atleast 1 rax making marauders all the time to reduce the impact of banelings.
Anyone else trying hellbats instead of WM, and how is that going for you? I don't know what is your league but in mine (top diamond) zergs are crushing hellbat bio composition with a large amount of baneling. The problem with hellbat mixing with bio is that their hard counter is basically the same (mass baneling). Mass lings shouldn't be a problem when you have good macro because marines/medivac trade very well with speedlings in general. Im mid diamond atm. I too often just see the zerg a-move mass lings/banes over my WM and not taking much damage at all. Atleast not enough damage. With hellbats and bio I feel much more in control and can focus 100% on splitting and pulling marines back from the marauders and hellbats. Hellbats are so efficient agaisnt lings that if you get a good trade in a battle and have some hellbats left it can snowball really fast, unlike WM. Ive only played 10 games with this style so its not like im saying this is the shit. Was just wondering if someone else had tried it.
I've been playing hellbat bio consistently for about a month now, and my thoughts on it are that it is super dependent on winning that one big engagement. Because you don't have mines, mutas can be a big threat, so you need to finish an engagement with at least 15 marines and/or have more rallying across the map. However, as long as you keep even just 2 hellbats, no amount of lings can ever kill you, so it's not hard to keep pushing and pushing and pushing (zerg can't suddenly build 30 banelings at this point as reinforcement if they have been macroing well, or if they do then they won't have any lings left)
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Quick question: Is it worth getting mech defense upgrades in TvZ for medivacs, when going biomine? When trades aren't going in your favor it's so easy to just lose all your medivacs to mutas.
edit: also get more than 1 factory to research drilling claws?
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i just gave up on tvp.really i did ,wahtever the build or anything if it gets past 3 base im done , i dont have the micro to do the split storm dodge stutter step ,drop micro . while my opponent A-move his zealot and colossus carelessly .for gold and platinum i think protoss have it sooo much easier than terran that i jsut gave up and 11/11 every game i face a toss and not like it works i fail most of the time cause they always scout but meh after i might get a tvz or tvt where i feel its not a keybord faceroll for my opponent
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Canada8160 Posts
On December 20 2013 11:42 nightshark wrote:
Quick question: Is it worth getting mech defense upgrades in TvZ for medivacs, when going biomine? When trades aren't going in your favor it's so easy to just lose all your medivacs to mutas.
edit: also get more than 1 factory to research drilling claws?
Yes it's good to get the mech defence upgrades
You should be adding your 2nd factory sometime after your 2/2 starts for your bio, and get drilling claws from that factory. I like to have 3 reactored factories and 1 tech lab'd factory, and I make a ton of mines
On December 20 2013 12:07 Diminisherqc wrote:
i just gave up on tvp.really i did ,wahtever the build or anything if it gets past 3 base im done , i dont have the micro to do the split storm dodge stutter step ,drop micro . while my opponent A-move his zealot and colossus carelessly .for gold and platinum i think protoss have it sooo much easier than terran that i jsut gave up and 11/11 every game i face a toss and not like it works i fail most of the time cause they always scout but meh after i might get a tvz or tvt where i feel its not a keybord faceroll for my opponent
Can't really help you since there's no question
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On December 20 2013 11:42 nightshark wrote:
Quick question: Is it worth getting mech defense upgrades in TvZ for medivacs, when going biomine? When trades aren't going in your favor it's so easy to just lose all your medivacs to mutas.
edit: also get more than 1 factory to research drilling claws?
Mech defense upgrades I think are more useful in that they give mines and hellbats a little extra defense to work with, so if you are getting them solely for medivacs I think the money could be better spent elsewhere.
I typically see 2 factories producing mines off of a 3+ base economy, and yes you want drilling claws so an additional factory to research it is fine. If you keep the factory on the tech lab for a while you might as well get blue flame too.
Forgot to mention but: medivac boost should be enough to save your fleet from mutas.
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is there anything anybody is doing in TvT that doesnt consist of a banshee or anti banshee? All of the 15 gas openings, don't really have a real transition that isnt hellions, (which I have been told are not very good anymore in TvT) i looked through all of them and correct me if im wrong but all of them either consisted of a reactionary play such as a banshee or hellion, which is fine but like i said ppl have been saying hellions aren't as good in TvT anymore. I mean I guess my question is, are there any mech games anybody has recently played/ mech guides? I read the forGG one but it is getting outdated and whoever wrote it doesn't have very good english.
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On December 20 2013 15:02 Fhiz wrote:
is there anything anybody is doing in TvT that doesnt consist of a banshee or anti banshee? All of the 15 gas openings, don't really have a real transition that isnt hellions, (which I have been told are not very good anymore in TvT) i looked through all of them and correct me if im wrong but all of them either consisted of a reactionary play such as a banshee or hellion, which is fine but like i said ppl have been saying hellions aren't as good in TvT anymore. I mean I guess my question is, are there any mech games anybody has recently played/ mech guides? I read the forGG one but it is getting outdated and whoever wrote it doesn't have very good english.
this isn't mech but:
I pulled this straight from demuslim, it is a 3cc opener that has the chance to outright kill a cc first opener and stays safe from banshee harass. The problem with the build is that it sorta dies to early marine tank pushes if you don't have really good control and positioning.
Open 12 rax 12 gas and make a reaper. Add a second rax before your first reaper finishes such that if you queue up a second reaper from your 1st rax, the second reaper and second rax will finish at the same time. go up to 4 reapers and harass accordingly. After 4 reapers are out, focus on adding tanks (off of 1 fact), marines (produced from your still naked raxes), an ebay, and a 3rd cc in whatever order you see fit.
The idea is to cause some damage with the reapers if possible, but at the very least get all the scouting information you need with them. Tanks and marines should keep you safe from early attacks (make sure not to be late on your tank production because they are crucial to keeping you alive) and if you see banshee play don't skimp on the turrets because you won't have a ton of marines to deal with them.
If you decide to give this a try you can pm me with questions if you want.
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So has The DwF hammered out how to defend a proxy void all in? Cause I keep losing to it xD
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So if I open with Heart's stim timing on Frost (cross positions) but the protoss builds his structures tunneling in front of his nat and uses 4-6 sentries with void rays and photon overcharge crushes the push, what do I do? Because 6 minutes later I just lose to a max void ray sentry chargelot army with storm support
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On December 20 2013 12:07 Diminisherqc wrote:
i just gave up on tvp.really i did ,wahtever the build or anything if it gets past 3 base im done , i dont have the micro to do the split storm dodge stutter step ,drop micro . while my opponent A-move his zealot and colossus carelessly .for gold and platinum i think protoss have it sooo much easier than terran that i jsut gave up and 11/11 every game i face a toss and not like it works i fail most of the time cause they always scout but meh after i might get a tvz or tvt where i feel its not a keybord faceroll for my opponent
/sign
Although TvZ is somehow similar, it´s just a-move banelings into your bio army and everything is gone. I like terran, especially because of the drop-play but I feel like it´s almost impossible to reach higher leagues without spending hours everyday on learning how to micro. :-/
Short question is MMM+Tank an viable option for TvMass-Bling?
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On December 20 2013 21:36 JoeCool wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 12:07 Diminisherqc wrote:
i just gave up on tvp.really i did ,wahtever the build or anything if it gets past 3 base im done , i dont have the micro to do the split storm dodge stutter step ,drop micro . while my opponent A-move his zealot and colossus carelessly .for gold and platinum i think protoss have it sooo much easier than terran that i jsut gave up and 11/11 every game i face a toss and not like it works i fail most of the time cause they always scout but meh after i might get a tvz or tvt where i feel its not a keybord faceroll for my opponent /sign Although TvZ is somehow similar, it´s just a-move banelings into your bio army and everything is gone. I like terran, especially because of the drop-play but I feel like it´s almost impossible to reach higher leagues without spending hours everyday on learning how to micro. :-/ Short question is MMM+Tank an viable option for TvMass-Bling?
Depends on the maps. Do ok on Yeonsu or Belshir.
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On December 20 2013 12:07 Diminisherqc wrote:
i just gave up on tvp.really i did ,wahtever the build or anything if it gets past 3 base im done , i dont have the micro to do the split storm dodge stutter step ,drop micro . while my opponent A-move his zealot and colossus carelessly .for gold and platinum i think protoss have it sooo much easier than terran that i jsut gave up and 11/11 every game i face a toss and not like it works i fail most of the time cause they always scout but meh after i might get a tvz or tvt where i feel its not a keybord faceroll for my opponent
Eh, TvP is one of the most fun matchups for me, mainly since TvT and TvZ are almost the same every game and come down to getting favorable trades to put you ahead. TvP on the other hand, man it's just different every time. Yeah it's hard and you lose to bullshit but at least it's varied, and you can learn to scout/hold every build if you put the time and effort in. So you can either complain and keep losing or put the effort in and walk away with extra wins
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Generally, is it better to get energy or cloak first for ghosts in TvP?
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Hey guys,
what's up? I've got a question in terms of Polt's TvP-Build.
For all of you who are unfamiliar with it, check out day9's analysis (http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-620-polts-tvp-wcs-amazingness/).
So, from my understanding (and sorry if I repeat what day9 said) you are trying to get up a decent army and more important a very efficient productioncircle focusing on bio-heavy play with a few medvacs behind it and pushing out around 10:30 to get mapcontrol while keeping the protoss at 2 bases if you can. Also there is rarely a lot of dropplay and the fighting style is relying more on getting good flanks without heavy microing.
That's why I chose this build to play since I am just a silve/gold-league player and I actually cannot dodge storms yet like it's used to be done by good terrans. Hell, I am happy if I manage to keep everything rolling in terms of my macroplay.
What I discovered recently was that playing this style has quite a disadvantage if the protoss goes for fast double upgrades which actually ends in fights around 12:00-12:30 with him having finished +2+2 while me having finished +1+1.
My question is how you would deal with such a tech-heavy opening?
Shall I favour CS over Stim and try to get a good push with the first marauder?
I thought about this but I think I'll only just bait an early nexuscannon which doesn't solve my problem how to live against an attack of a zealott/templar(with storms) army.
The question I am asking could also be phrased like this:
How can I adjust Polt's built to make a protoss pay for being greedy like this?
Any help is appreciated (and if this was asked before forgive me and post me the link please).
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In general terms both players will have an equal amount of money to spend on things.
that means if a player is playing greedy (upgrades, tech, economy) and you are playing safe (units) there is a time when you will be ahead in army.
you identify this, then scan his army and attack if your judgement tells you you will come out ahead.
less units means more voulerability to drops etc.
every build (macroed prrfectly) has a certain timing when its strongest
eg. 6 pool at 3 minutes
15 hatch after x minutes
a greedy build will always be stronger "later"
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EPT
