EPTThank you Dwf !
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 227
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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noSec
Brazil37 Posts
Thank you Dwf ! | ||
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JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
TvP t_t. | ||
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JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 29 2013 22:43 JonIrenicus wrote: I'm clueless about TVZ and TvP What do I do. What do I make? I've got an oustanding 0% win ratio in tvp and 20% in tvz Be more specific. What is your league, what openings are you using, what compositions are you playing? | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 30 2013 03:42 Fhiz wrote: How can I tell when a some sort of baneling/ roach baneling bust is coming? I pretty much always scout 1 gas with my reaper is there some timing i need to go back and check for the second? Cause i keep taking what is most likely unnecessary damage although i often come back onto my feet once my production kicks in but i always lose so many workers t.t Your Hellions should be in front of his natural (or at least somewhere in the path) and see the Roaches moving out. Zergs can play a Roach/Baneling bust out of a gas or gasless opening, so the initial scout doesn't matter much in this regard. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
The initial reaper scout does matter in whether or not they are researching ling speed. If they have more than 100 gas mined but are not researching ling speed, then you must check to see if he is getting a quick lair. If no quick lair, then roaches and or banes incoming. | ||
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JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
for TvP, your unit composition is really off. 75 marines and 20 marauders is NOT a healthy distribution and will probably lose against the protoss AoE (unless you have some gosu micro). also, 6 vikings vs 6 colossus i obviously not enough. against 6 colossi, you need enough vikings to one shot a colossus and might want to consider going double starport. | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
And 6 collosi vs 6 Vikings is very lol | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 30 2013 06:12 KingofGods wrote: 8min 30 seconds the 3rd should be fully saturated. If not, roach / ling / bane incoming. Also around the 7ish min mark you should see 2 evos going down, otherwise it will be roach warren and baneling nest. The initial reaper scout does matter in whether or not they are researching ling speed. If they have more than 100 gas mined but are not researching ling speed, then you must check to see if he is getting a quick lair. If no quick lair, then roaches and or banes incoming. Zerg cannot have 65-70 drones at 8'30. Roach/Baneling busts are also not the only build delaying the saturation of the third. Mining beyond 100 can mean little, especially in lower leagues in which people are sloppy and might forget to pull drones out of the gas. On December 30 2013 06:55 JonIrenicus wrote: I always open double rax 11\11 and I try to make two bunkers in the zerg natural. Then two scenery may happen: can't do damage: I just get damned by the waves of speedlings that come, because I can't hold them OR will turn into macro game I damage the hatch and kill it --> could be game ending damage or not > if not the zerg just drones as much as possible while I go reactor hellion, because I play mech. As soon as I make tanks I get often surprised my muta switches (so I can never push because I don't have enough Thors, or there are too much roach and my tanks\thor composition get melted) or I get swarm hosted to death And I don't know what to make. I mean , I seem to make unit at random because I never have enough, especially against Zerg. I'm sincerely clueless And now protoss. I open as select does, 9tvp push with stim + cs. only one time I was able to do gameending damage, the other times the protoss just repels, tech asap to colossi, get 4 and he just pushes. Colossi are the bane of my existance. I can't seem to have never enough vikings. I had done a fight where I had 150 supply of army (around 75 marines + 20 marauders + 6 vikings + 8 medivacs) against a 90 supply protoss army (with 6 colossi). I got completely obliterated even if I attacked from all the sides (all sides but the right). I can't seem to know what to do because everything a protoss makes just means doom for my army. But colossi have the throne for my impending doom Change your openings. 11/11 is not a stable opening, a lot of games will simply come down to what happened with the attack, and in many scenarii you will have to improvise; prefer something less "random" so you can find patterns and learn from them. If you play mech, scout the first tech that Zerg chooses: if it's mutas, build 3-4 Thors before Tanks (unless Zerg keeps building mutas, in which case you keep building Thors, but generally he'll switch to Roaches and/or Swarm hosts afterwards), and possibly some Vikings; if it's Roaches, start Tanks but be vigilant and keep scouting (with scans, Hellions raids/drops or Banshees) his transition. Common things include roaches/hydras into Hive for Vipers, muta switch or Swarm hosts. 3 rax stim cannot be used as a standard opening either, you will end up behind in most games since the build is only useful against a few Protoss builds. You will of course lack Vikings against Colossi because your Starport is delayed so much. Play a standard 2 or 3 rax Medivacs opening (see the OP) and add a second Starport around 12' against Colossus play. | ||
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Dunmer
United Kingdom568 Posts
Based on your idea and it is the standard consensus of 3-4 thors and then tanks unless its a muta flood, which do you think is the better play? With this new idea you can deal with low muta counts and have tanks out for a roach push, I also feel you can just keep pumping more thors if he goes muta still. Basically which do you feel is better when going hellion/banshee into mech and mutas are scouted. An example game would be MVP vs Curious on Whirlwind at IEM off the top of my head. | ||
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Effay
United States153 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 30 2013 10:52 Dunmer wrote: Dwf what do you think about the mech style I have been seeing where assuming a normal game with hellion banshee opening and nothing much really happens. The zerg goes mutas and makes 6-7 initially, well I have seen alot of players just pump vikings and one thor with quite a number of turrets. The reasoning for this is some players just go 6-7 mutas and then roaches, maybe a 4th or whatever followup. Based on your idea and it is the standard consensus of 3-4 thors and then tanks unless its a muta flood, which do you think is the better play? With this new idea you can deal with low muta counts and have tanks out for a roach push, I also feel you can just keep pumping more thors if he goes muta still. Basically which do you feel is better when going hellion/banshee into mech and mutas are scouted. An example game would be MVP vs Curious on Whirlwind at IEM off the top of my head. You can indeed delay a bit your extra Thors (past 1 or 2) to get earlier fact and some Tanks, but eventually you will need them for your first big push because your opponent has a Spire, so he can spam 15-20 mutas and clean all your Tanks if you're lacking anti-air (e. g. this is what happened in SuperNova vs Soulkey, Akilon Wastes, OSL Placement Matches). Against 2-bases mutas, as Curious did in that game, you can limit Thor production for some time as the initial wave is weaker than 3-bases mutas and thus can be defended with less units. HotS gave Terran some breathing space regarding Roaches timings after mutas since Hellbats and possibly a few Mines help to defend, so the Tank/Thor ratio isn't as critical as in WoL in which you could lose because you built 4 Thors instead of 2. Basically there's some leeway regarding this as long as you don't drastically overproduce Thors. On December 31 2013 03:02 Effay wrote: What's the proper way to transition into mech TvT from a cloak banshee expand? I've been experimenting with mech TvT and I haven't quite gotten it to work consistently yet Transition into Hellions/Vikings + Raven, so mostly get a Reactor on your Factory. Some people lift their rax to scout after that. Third CC before +2 fact or the reverse is up to you, depending on what your opponent is playing. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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Qwerty85
Croatia5536 Posts
However, I am having increased difficulty winning with bio against mech in TvT. I was trying to find a good safe macro mech build but since I haven't found anything that looked good to me (most builds revolve around doing some early aggression) I tried to make my own build. The goal is to be safe early on against most things but expand relatively fast as well. With mech I prefer to be on the defensive early on, deflect any early aggression and take the macro lead. Here is the replay: http://drop.sc/369274 Although the replay is around 22min long (until my mech 3-3 upgrades finish), first 10 minutes are basically most important since I set up most of my infrastructure by that time. So if anyone is willing to check it out and tell me how could I optimize it to be better (or recommend a better mech build overall) it would be much appreciated. I was diamond in WoL and now I am around plat level. I haven't tired mech yet in ranked, I want to have a solid build before I test it against an actual player. And Happy New Year everyone!  | ||
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
So I open CC first on the high ground, rax, gas, check my natural for the catZ hatch, scout zerg main once with the same scv. I feel really air tight against most cheeses but I hit a few throwback cheeses and some wtf cheeses I need help with. ***please answer as if you are already going cc first then scout the following...*** 1. 13 gas 13 pool quick lings So I scout lings running at me with the scv, cancel my low ground bunker (lings hit before the fastest cc first bunker can complete) and start a bunker on the high ground... So basically what are the best options when you are "contained" like this? banshee? push out with 4-6 hellions? third cc? marine tank 3 rax? After checking the replay, terran comes out even on workers with a much faster 2nd CC but zerg gets to mine from nat faster. If answer is "play standard" please give a brief description of what units/buildings to get/prioritize and when to take natural... 2. Double proxy hatch in main base. Just like it sounds 2 drones get into main before rax is started and build two hatcheries, spawn two queens, then pop like 7 roaches even if the hatches already die. I built 2 additional rax, and delayed OCs to get three bunkers. After cleaning up the roaches I has 3 scvs left 2 OC 3 rax to the zergs one base, after that I walked over and killed zerg nat to play a relatively even game.... Again what is the best response to proxy hatcheries in your main base? I assume marines and bunkers are the only options, but is pulling scvs to immediately kill hatch worth it? 1. One base bling bust there was enough blings and lings to bust a depot and bunker maybe two bunkers soon after... Is the best thing to just reinforce the ramp wall, or bunkers in mineral line? Thanks in advance for all the tips btw is anyone else experiencing lots of cheese from zerg lately? I expect this kinda stuff from toss, but zergs usually play macro in my experience... at least a hatch or two | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On January 01 2014 01:19 Qwerty85 wrote: So I've been coming back to SC2 after awhile and in WoL I played mostly bio so my macro with bio is pretty decent. However, I am having increased difficulty winning with bio against mech in TvT. I was trying to find a good safe macro mech build but since I haven't found anything that looked good to me (most builds revolve around doing some early aggression) I tried to make my own build. The goal is to be safe early on against most things but expand relatively fast as well. With mech I prefer to be on the defensive early on, deflect any early aggression and take the macro lead. Raven expand is safe, but since you have no threat with your transition you will end up behind against any kind of fast expand (which means you will have troubles securing your third on many maps). In the OP, check the gas 15 builds and the Ryung vs MMA Newkirk game in the Reaper expand into 1-1-1 section, those builds are safe and don't require some kind of early agression to even out the game. On January 01 2014 09:59 Doc Brawler wrote: OK guys I have some cheese defense questions only regarding CC FIRST, So I open CC first on the high ground, rax, gas, check my natural for the catZ hatch, scout zerg main once with the same scv. I feel really air tight against most cheeses but I hit a few throwback cheeses and some wtf cheeses I need help with. ***please answer as if you are already going cc first then scout the following...*** 1. 13 gas 13 pool quick lings So I scout lings running at me with the scv, cancel my low ground bunker (lings hit before the fastest cc first bunker can complete) and start a bunker on the high ground... So basically what are the best options when you are "contained" like this? banshee? push out with 4-6 hellions? third cc? marine tank 3 rax? After checking the replay, terran comes out even on workers with a much faster 2nd CC but zerg gets to mine from nat faster. If answer is "play standard" please give a brief description of what units/buildings to get/prioritize and when to take natural... 2. Double proxy hatch in main base. Just like it sounds 2 drones get into main before rax is started and build two hatcheries, spawn two queens, then pop like 7 roaches even if the hatches already die. I built 2 additional rax, and delayed OCs to get three bunkers. After cleaning up the roaches I has 3 scvs left 2 OC 3 rax to the zergs one base, after that I walked over and killed zerg nat to play a relatively even game.... Again what is the best response to proxy hatcheries in your main base? I assume marines and bunkers are the only options, but is pulling scvs to immediately kill hatch worth it? 1. One base bling bust there was enough blings and lings to bust a depot and bunker maybe two bunkers soon after... Is the best thing to just reinforce the ramp wall, or bunkers in mineral line? 1. Hellions/Banshees. Reclaim your natural with the first Banshee (unless he expands, cuts gas income and drones, in which case you can take it back earlier; your scouting SCV can check that if you didn't lose it). 2. Skip/cancel gas and go CC rax rax OC OC (don't delay them!) rax bunk bunk instead (one bunk below each hatch). From your description it seems he went triple hatch before pool (if it's hatch pool hatch, then get the 2 bunks before the third rax), so with his nonsense his pool and thus his Roach Warren will be heavily delayed. Keep mining with your SCVs. 3. Reinforce the weak side of the wall (the depot) and get 2 Bunkers behind said wall, and head for Hellions/Banshees. You have to hold at the wall. | ||
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Qwerty85
Croatia5536 Posts
On January 01 2014 21:30 TheDwf wrote: Raven expand is safe, but since you have no threat with your transition you will end up behind against any kind of fast expand (which means you will have troubles securing your third on many maps). In the OP, check the gas 15 builds and the Ryung vs MMA Newkirk game in the Reaper expand into 1-1-1 section, those builds are safe and don't require some kind of early agression to even out the game. Ok thanks, I will check those two out. | ||
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