The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 159

On August 22 2013 23:01 krooked wrote:
Hi guys, need some help.

I'm probably getting demoted to platinum next season, I've been "top" diamond for some time, but the last week everything has gone to shit. I lose to more or less all zergs who attacks before 10 minutes, TvP is a nightmare and I face the cloakshee build (and lose) all the time. I've got some replays here.

TvP Newkirk Precinct: http://drop.sc/355099

So, I'm going for the 1:1:1 after expand since I feel its easier to hold blink all ins with this. I do a more or less failed widowmine/marine-drop and I screw up the build. But it ends up doing OK. At around 10:30 I move out with two medivacs and do some light pressure. Drop in main, shoot for like 3 seconds then get out before I lose any medivacs. I scout his colossi and add second starport. I have a pretty big food advantage at certain points but some crucial mistakes cost me the game:

1: I engage him and "trade" so to speak, but the food advantage is gone. I manage to max out again but get attacked and completely screw up the engagement. Its actually comical to watch, you will probably laugh. I would like some tips on how to avoid stuff like that happening.

Question A:

Should I not have engaged him at when he had HT and I had no ghost? Should I just wait for Ghost?

Question B:

How should I manage my army when engaging? Should I just EMP what I can? Is it very important that I can sneak around and somehow EMP high templars? Should I stand prespread? What are my priorities when he attacks into me like that?

I am also aware that he had 3-3 while I was only on 3-2, big mistake I know, but I still think I could've won that game with better micro and decisionmaking.

TvZ Star station: http://drop.sc/355101

I go for cc first > 3OC. I can NEVER hold anything early! I scout him, I see no gas, but also no early third. I'm not sure what that means, so I wasn't sure what to do. He does a roach rush and I die a slow death. This is basically all my TvZs, I'd have like 90% WR if I could hold these, because every zerg I am facing does some sort of roach/baneling/ling combination early no matter what it seems. Easy win when I hold, but I have no idea how to defend!

Questions:

- Is there something wrong with my build? Should I make a couple of marauders early to stay safe? (seems stupid)
- How can I know if he is attacking early? Normally I get out some hellions and drive right into roaches, at which point its too late. I can't really react since there isn't too much to read into zerg gas timings. If there is something I can do as a safety measure to more or less guarantee avoid losing without giving him too much of an econ advantage should he not commit, I'd love to know what...

Anyways, thanks guys.

On August 23 2013 05:21 Doc Brawler wrote:
OK guys here is yet another late game TvP question. So assuming the game has stabilized on 3+ bases, and Terran is engaging here and there to free up supply, what are the exact numbers for ideal composition that can stand toe to toe with protoss. I remember the ultra late game where byun starved out hero with 40 vikes 30 ghosts and 20 rines, but that involved carriers and mothership and doesn't really apply to most games.
So i think its accepted that around 20 vikes to insta snipe colossis and ~20 ghosts to have infinite emp, are a ideal. but what should the rest of supply be? hellbats, marines, or marauders? Do ravens or widow mines have a place? i could see a few ravens really supporting the vikings with pdd and detection for obs but then there is that thing called feedback.

On August 22 2013 07:51 Sajaki wrote:


I don't have time to watch them all right now, so I'll just break down a bit of game 3.
The reason you lost this game was because you floated 5000 minerals way before maxing. Thats literally a 100 food army of marines. If you had even half of that spent you probably could have just gone and killed him at any time.

So, onto the specifics:
Your 3rd CC is idle for almost 4 minutes. That could have been an orbital dropping mules and building an econ. Instead its a wasted investment.
Grab the gases at your natural at about eight minutes.
Throw down the starport at about 8 minutes as well, you want the medivacs for some pressure/poke.
You get supply blocked a lot in this game, try to have 2 scvs permabuilding depots when your second base is underway.
YOUR EXTRA PRODUCTION IS WICKED LATE, which is why you float 5000 minerals. The moment you begin to float, try to get up to 8 rax 2 fact 1 port asap. money in the bank is like money wasted.
Mine production was very inconsistent, even before switching to tank tech.
When you float a lot of money throw down extra orbitals.
4th CC can be started when you establish your third. ]
get armory upgrades, plating for 4M, attack for bio/tank.
Use one medivac + units to clean creep and stretch his multitasking.
When you scan and see he has that massive army, just gtfo back to base. there's no way youd ever win that fight.

EDIT: Okay game 5.

Aim for 5 barracks ASAP after double ebay. generally around 8ish minutes you want to get them up, you sit on 3 rax for too long and cannot spend your money.
You overcommit heavily to turrets. Generally you can get away with 1 per mineral line, adding more around the outskirts of your base when you want to move out.
Dont double-scan a zerg early game, especially when the first scan reveals a lair. Lair implies no pressure because he cannot afford a big econ and get an army and have lair + lairtech units if its that early in the game. Its a waste of a mule.
More critical supply blocks. Covered this in the previous rep but build depots 2 at a time constantly on 2 base, 3 on 3base, (unless you are like 100/130 for some reason). If this happens just spam depots and production to keep the money low!
Try to secure the third earlier. The thing is, you actually secured yours late and didn't have an army to defend it. Its because you are behind in production and army. So its late, but actually too early given what you had that game -- a testament to how far behind you had gotten (from macro mistakes).
The biggest issue this game was tactics. Drops are used for multiple purposes, mainly:
1) To get an army out of position *so you can push something on the map with your main army*
2) Keep an opponent on the defensive so you can expand or buy time for tech, etc.
In this game, your drops are just aerial attacks, with no other purpose. You did this twice. It would have been better to just move your army across the map and try and pressure something. In that scenario, you could have loaded up a medivac and dropped while your army pressured one of his exposed expansions. Instead, you launched two weak attacks that didn't really benefit you. You lost more than you really got.

A good thing you can do is just mass up and hit at +2 +2. You should be nearly maxed at that point in the game, and can hit zerg when he's trying to get out hive tech. You can opt for a small drop at this point, too, but only do so if it wont do as much damage to your own economy (floating money, forgetting stuff, etc).

On August 23 2013 03:45 Sajaki wrote:
Hey, a few quick questions about TvT, which im really struggling in atm: Is it possible to use the ForGG build TvT, but transition into bio. (forgg build = 12 rax 15 gas reactor CC fact port)? I really like the opening but I cannot stand mech mirrors..
Secondly, do any masterleague terrans have replays winning with bio or biomech vs mech on a turtle map like Akilon? Were they don't get a build order advantage earlygame?

On August 23 2013 07:45 KingofGods wrote:
The way I see it:

0-7 mins - Protoss has advantage because their 1 base all ins are stronger than terrans and they have so many to choose from

7-10 mins - terran has advantage with stim

10-12 mins - protoss has advantage with 2 collosi

12-15 mins - terran has advantage before protoss fully transitions to 3 base collisi / ht

15+ - good luck terrans


Before in WoL protoss had to be weary in the 0-7 mins because of 2 or 3 raxes. With mothership core, not so much anymore. And the mothership core allows protoss to play so greedy that the 10-12 min mark with +1 / combat shield / stim / medivas is no longer terrans domain.

On August 23 2013 18:41 Lock0n wrote:


Usually stim finishes at 9 minutes at the earliest with any expand build. The main window for Terran is therefore 10-15 mins, and it is crucial to do significant damage or deny third otherwise it's gg.

Pretty dreadful game design to allow a race 5 minute window of advantage, and to make it worst Protoss has over 10 different aggressive options or all ins that hit before 10 mins.

On August 23 2013 20:29 krooked wrote:


What are peoples thoughts on the reaper exp>1:1:1 aggresion-build? I feel that when I do this build I actually win a couple of engagements. I lose the game, of course, but its better than what I manage with cc first / the standard reaperFE>3raxmedivac-timing. I don't understand how to inflict damage without dying and therefore I am at a worse position. I just don't understand this MU

@Decendios:

1:1:1 expand with widowmine/marine-drop and rallying reactored hellions to his mineral line I guess. Maru did it against innovation in OSL, some other pro's have used it as well.