EPT[G][D] 2 Base Swarm Host + Spore ZvP - Page 3
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Obamanation666
United States70 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On February 20 2013 00:45 dicedicerevolution wrote: Open with 10pool. Nydus instead of OL creep drop (economy is better relative to just opening 2base vs. FFE), Vipers vs. 2robo colossi. Opponent is GM for what it's worth. http://drop.sc/305766 Spores are so good against Colossies, and cheap to make Vipers. Also it looks like Spores queens and Vipers can be viable. Spore transfuses with abducts and Swarmhosts can be a nice combo | ||
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usNEUX
United States76 Posts
Replay? And what league are you? You shouldn't be floating enough minerals that you need a macro hatch so I don't know if your mechanics are bad or something and you certainly don't need 6 spines and 3 spores. Swarm hosts are not larvae intensive at all. If you are constantly building queens out of your 2 bases then you will end up with the same amount. Your build also has half as many swarm hosts as what seems to be the standard has at 10:30. You don't need 6 spines if you have enough swarm hosts, which you don't. 6 queens in your contain is also overkill against air if you just make 2-4 spores. You shouldn't really be taking damage at your line of swarm hosts so you shouldn't need transfuse. At first glance it looks like you're just wasting a ton of minerals on things you don't need. If you're floating minerals then take your 3/4 gases earlier and a 3rd, but you really shouldn't have many extra. | ||
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Obamanation666
United States70 Posts
I appreciate the advice, I'm a zerg smurf. I was a masters toss back in WOL, but I only recently picked up and started playing zerg. I picked up the third on many occasions to flood his base with bane/lings (nydus) after setting up the contain, but I understand what your getting at. I still like a high queen count though, I find them to work great at soaking up damage that makes it way through your locusts. | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
particularly important was how well he multitasked, moved his army around very intelligently to threaten swarm host reinforcements, threaten the swarm host frontal cluster a little, right at the time in-between locust spawns, when your locusts are out of position, and very soon making a very serious threat of base-trading with his stalker/sentry/colossus army. bring 1 probe inside the warp prism to make pylons on the map for a static warp-in location, so the warp prism can be mobile. if you retreat your swarm hosts you have no pressure obviously and he just takes a 3rd, if you try to pressure while also defending your main, your swarm hosts numbers are a little too small and he can sweep his army back to take out the swarm host front as he's also cutting off reinforcements, only other option really is to force a base trade scenario which actually might work but is uncertain who will win, depends on who executes everything better and really both of you can rebuild your bases to make for a very bizarre game. | ||
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usNEUX
United States76 Posts
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On February 22 2013 06:09 Zelniq wrote: Been doing this a ton on ladder (but I always bring queens, and keep bringing more if they are making air), but I finally faced this one korean guy twice who reacts imo the perfect way, first going into a quick warp prism harass forcing swarm hosts there, then warping in a bunch of stalkers out somewhere safe on the map and with observers goes for 6 warpgate pressure to threaten counterattack/base trade while going for a quick colossus followup off 2 base. particularly important was how well he multitasked, moved his army around very intelligently to threaten swarm host reinforcements, threaten the swarm host frontal cluster a little, right at the time in-between locust spawns, when your locusts are out of position, and very soon making a very serious threat of base-trading with his stalker/sentry/colossus army. bring 1 probe inside the warp prism to make pylons on the map for a static warp-in location, so the warp prism can be mobile. if you retreat your swarm hosts you have no pressure obviously and he just takes a 3rd, if you try to pressure while also defending your main, your swarm hosts numbers are a little too small and he can sweep his army back to take out the swarm host front as he's also cutting off reinforcements, only other option really is to force a base trade scenario which actually might work but is uncertain who will win, depends on who executes everything better and really both of you can rebuild your bases to make for a very bizarre game. Can you upload the replays? I lose every single game to this stuff... Might just be that I lose every single game to cheese today but I am pretty frustrated with SH rush. Edit: talking to Zeliq here  | ||
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Skytt
Scotland333 Posts
VOD of Leenock doing something similar vs Babyknight this weekend, he did a similar build in game 1 but had to transition out of it. This game was more successful and won the game with it. | ||
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Obamanation666
United States70 Posts
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velvex
Germany226 Posts
I agree that the setting-up phase is by far the most dangerous part. But with the pay-off being an extremely cost-efficient Spore/SH setup, I think you can afford a lot of adjustments that increase your chances for getting that. And if those adjustments are to be making eight Spores at eight different spots on the map, then they may be. Btw, the counter Zelniq faced sounds about right to me. Being super-active is probably the best thing Protoss can do. | ||
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IncoGnit9
26 Posts
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velvex
Germany226 Posts
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IncoGnit9
26 Posts
I do a similar push but with nydus and it usually hits around 8:20-9:00 with ling speed taken really early. | ||
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
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1v1Alpha
33 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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bertu
Brazil871 Posts
On February 22 2013 06:09 Zelniq wrote: Been doing this a ton on ladder (but I always bring queens, and keep bringing more if they are making air), but I finally faced this one korean guy twice who reacts imo the perfect way, first going into a quick warp prism harass forcing swarm hosts there, then warping in a bunch of stalkers out somewhere safe on the map and with observers goes for 6 warpgate pressure to threaten counterattack/base trade while going for a quick colossus followup off 2 base. particularly important was how well he multitasked, moved his army around very intelligently to threaten swarm host reinforcements, threaten the swarm host frontal cluster a little, right at the time in-between locust spawns, when your locusts are out of position, and very soon making a very serious threat of base-trading with his stalker/sentry/colossus army. bring 1 probe inside the warp prism to make pylons on the map for a static warp-in location, so the warp prism can be mobile. if you retreat your swarm hosts you have no pressure obviously and he just takes a 3rd, if you try to pressure while also defending your main, your swarm hosts numbers are a little too small and he can sweep his army back to take out the swarm host front as he's also cutting off reinforcements, only other option really is to force a base trade scenario which actually might work but is uncertain who will win, depends on who executes everything better and really both of you can rebuild your bases to make for a very bizarre game. This sounds like a great response. Any chance you can share the replays? | ||
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velvex
Germany226 Posts
On March 21 2013 13:35 IamPryda wrote: How does this build do vs gateway plus warp prism 2 base allins You mean with Sentries and ramp-blocking? I haven't played against that, but if you can hold this on three bases, you sure can hold this on two. On March 22 2013 20:35 1v1Alpha wrote: this build is easily countered by 2 stargate phoenix. In hots if a protoss scouts zerg 2 base and go double stargate mass phoenix, it beats every 2 base zerg tech. They will have around 10 phoenix when you move out for 10 ish minute swarm host push. If you go with queens, they lift and kill all queens then make an oracle and lift all swarm hosts. If you do the overlord + spore, they can kill overlords and you cant spread creep so spores cant move. You dont have enough gas to go 2 base swarm host hydra queen and they can transition to colossi by the time you do. Phooenixes force spores or some other defence in order for you to move out as well without losing all of your overlords beforehand. Phoenixes cannot do stop a Nydus though, and once I get enough Queens with Transfuse, I can still get up the contain. Also, double Stargate Phoenix doesn't seem like a very solid build, even (or especially) against a 2 Base Zerg. You can hardly make any Sentries, which makes you very vulnerable to any Speedling or Baneling play. On March 22 2013 21:08 bertu wrote: This sounds like a great response. Any chance you can share the replays? I think you can't watch Beta replays anymore. | ||
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VelRa_G
Canada304 Posts
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crbox
Canada1180 Posts
On February 13 2013 10:41 blade55555 wrote: Pylon at expo and cannon rush. You have to defend a cannon rush when hatch firsting absolutely perfectly or you will lose the natural and well lose the game. One small mistake and his cannon rush succeeds. that and 2gate proxy. People have been using this way more than in WoL at it's last balance state, especially on maps like Akilon Flats where there are so many good spots. It's impossible to hold while going hatch first and is actually surprisingly strong vs pool first unless you scout it early | ||
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