Personally, I never give up on mutas. If they hold initially with Phoenix add lingsinstead of spines to shut down their third. Then add in corrupters and make a big maxed push. Use muta/corrupter to defend expos as you mass expand, rather than harass.

Vulture174

United States74 Posts

April 09 2013 15:05 GMT

#202

Does muta armor reduce storm damage?

SalvationII

Germany25 Posts

April 09 2013 15:17 GMT

#203

Mutalisks are so unfair against protoss, because at one point, you can't defend against it anymore. Even if you cannot scout the spire its often insta-GG.

Could some Mutalisk-Abuser tell me how to win as Protoss against mass mutaslisk?

@Vulture174, no armor doesnt help against storms.

anatase

France532 Posts

April 09 2013 15:25 GMT

#204

On April 10 2013 00:17 SalvationII wrote:
Mutalisks are so unfair against protoss, because at one point, you can't defend against it anymore. Even if you cannot scout the spire its often insta-GG.

Could some Mutalisk-Abuser tell me how to win as Protoss against mass mutaslisk?

If you can, have a look at DRG vs FLYING (code S group B, played today). DRG had a ton of mutas, probably more than 24 actually, both were struggling to secure their forth (only exp they could mine).
DRG was flying everywhere and slowly destroying flying's bases.

the only way for flying to secure his forth was a good number of cannon (something like 15) with 2 archons and a HT.
All while his main army (few coloss, lots of stalkers, archons and ht) were denying DRG's 4th.

DRG had SH and muta with many spinecrawlers, but ultimately DRG lost, despite he really abused Flying with the muta.

(best way is still to watch the game, should soon be on youtube i believe as it is the WCS qualifier)

abefroman

70 Posts

April 09 2013 16:46 GMT

#205

The best way I have seen is open stargate, keep making Phoenix, get a second stargate FAST, and go looking to pick fights with mutas to keep the count down. Lots of cannons, especially at the third...but more for ling defense.

Basically you need to scout mutas fast and keep Phoenix count close to mutas.

Avoid a situation where you have 30 Phoenix and Zerg has 40 mutas....they can just whip by and snipe a base or two. constantly trade.i

LardMaster

United Kingdom123 Posts

April 09 2013 16:50 GMT

#206

On April 10 2013 00:05 Vulture174 wrote:
Does muta armor reduce storm damage?

No, armor doesn't affect spells.

Expir3d

Spain17 Posts

April 11 2013 08:01 GMT

#207

Gonna try this tonight on ladder. (diamond)
I've been trying 2 base swarmhost with 0 success.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

April 11 2013 08:10 GMT

#208

Reactive phoenix with the range upgrade really do fine. The most important thing is just not to be surprised so constantly use hallucinations, revelation etc. to scout what they are doing. Later on you want to be aggressive enough so they simply can't get a sudden 20 muta's.
Even then reactive phoenix with some cannons to buy time works just fine I think. You should basically have a stargate almost every game anyway now, so moment you see spire you can just throw down another stargate and fleet beacon.

Moonrisesc

Netherlands38 Posts

April 11 2013 08:18 GMT

#209

You can move-command pheonix on the minimap and you cannot possibly lose vs pure muta.

Iksf

United Kingdom444 Posts

April 11 2013 08:24 GMT

#210

Yea at the moment i dont think this is solid at the moment in Hots. It was amazing in WoL and im trying to work something out to revive it, but atm phoenix play is too strong.

Randomaccount111

29 Posts

April 11 2013 17:16 GMT

#211

I haven't encountered a heavy phoenix build yet, only a few sprinkled in, but so far I have 100% win rate with this build. Lots of fun to play and nothing has really put up a good fight yet. Playing at the high Platinum level and just started this build, so execution is far from perfect, but so far it's been landslide victories.

Thanks for the great write up. I needed something to get some wins vs P and this is doing it so far.

TelecoM

United States10675 Posts

April 11 2013 17:23 GMT

#212

Opening with 3-4 corrupters before you go mass muta is good for HOTS, because the corrupters will negate the phoenix, i've been going pure muta ling corrupter into like speedling baneling with swarmhosts and spine crawlers, use the mutas and corrupters to force the toss to keep massing pheonix, micro the mutas behind the corrupters so the pheonix cant hit the mutas, then use the mutas to harass and snipe probes / expos while corrupters and defending the mutas.

EDIT : I have been opening with an early +1 melee upgrade for the lings because muta ling / corrupter into baneling or swarmhosts is good, you have to be able to combat the ground army as well so I think that +1 is very good with the mutas, mutas without lings is just not as strong as muta ling ect.

TheLunatic

309 Posts

April 11 2013 17:26 GMT

#213

I hate when players, especially pros use a mass unit type to win, leads to boring games, this is the only part I truly hate about sc, you should have to have multiple unit types with micro from all to win a game, mass muta, voids, marines, ect is lame as fuck and I boo the players that use these styles, and blizzard for making them viable.

Randomaccount111

29 Posts

April 11 2013 18:35 GMT

#214

On April 12 2013 02:26 TheLunatic wrote:
I hate when players, especially pros use a mass unit type to win, leads to boring games, this is the only part I truly hate about sc, you should have to have multiple unit types with micro from all to win a game, mass muta, voids, marines, ect is lame as fuck and I boo the players that use these styles, and blizzard for making them viable.

Yea I can see that. This does feel a bit cheesy. But for me at least, where Protoss is compared to where Zerg is, it's the only way to keep up. Hopefully this style, however cheesy you may find it, will evolve into a new metagame for the matchup. Going mass Muta as the only viable option may eventually evolve into something more complex once people figure out HOW to transition to a few less muta's and more other stuff (stuff that wont get ROFLSTOMPED by ff's, voids, collos, HT's)..

The speedlings in the beginning of the game and the ability to abandon the muta plan based on what you scout and the number of drones/expansions up also cuts down on the cheesy feel for me.

For now, since ZvP basically meant auto-loss for me before this build, I'll be experimenting with it quite a bit.

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