EPT[H]TvP How to counter storm? - Page 2
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ihOpe
192 Posts
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sc2pal
Poland624 Posts
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On January 15 2013 14:09 Bahku wrote: Just won two TvP's pretty convincingly. I've learned to split my army in half while attacking the third, with half the army camping behind his predicted attack rout for an instant concave. Both went storms, I still had heavy losses but I've been more capable of preventing them from getting a third while easily out-macroing them. I can easily replace units because I usually hit as their third is being built, while my third is already being muled up with a fourth on the way. Thanks a lot for the advice everyone, I haven't been able to digest all of it but I've been using a lot of these tips. It seems my goal should be to eventually learn to snipe as it seems to be the most efficient way of dealing with templar, but until I get better awareness/mechanics I'll stick with positional play and (attempting) to dodge the storms. Another good tactic, aside from getting a big flank and taking out their army, is to basically hit where their army is not. In some cases, this means creating a diversion to get their army out of position and away from your real target. Dropping in the Protoss' main with a couple medivacs full of units will usually result in the Protoss pulling their forces into the main to defend. While it's doing that, you can have a well positioned strike force to go in and snipe the third while they're chasing after your drop. Just load up the drop and run away when the Protoss gets close. Alternatively, if the Protoss heads back to the third to save it, just let your forces in the main do economic damage/snipe tech. In either case, just have the units the Protoss is chasing run away while the other group does the damage. This is pretty standard TvP at higher levels of play; you may have heard of the 10 min medivac timing. The basic idea is at 10 mins you'll have 2 medivacs finish production, and you move out with your forces to do this kind of whack-a-mole damage to the Protoss. This kind of tactic is also good to get back into the game if you're behind, as it forces the Protoss to stay home and defend and you don't have to worry about having enough troops to overpower your opponent's army. In many cases, you'll actually be able to cripple your opponent to the point where you won't even have to worry about storms in the game. If you get far enough ahead with this kind of multi-pronged aggression, just some basic split/stutter micro to avoid storm damage (mentioned earlier in this thread) will be enough to overcome it, assuming the Protoss is even able to get storm tech before they die. | ||
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Thirteenth
Sweden10 Posts
i find having a good amount of vikings and scanning for observers to allow cloaked ghosts free reign to be very effective. the P either has to choose to let himself get EMP'd/sniped or move back and wait for more observers. if he moves back you can gain position, pre-spread again and just wait until he HAS to attack you because you are sitting on more bases than he is. it is a very hard dance to pull off but equally so for the protoss and if he is going chargelot-archon he has almost no anti air to punish your vikings for observer sniping and this becomes incredibly effective. dont get overeager trying to finish the game because you will have to rush into a choke and get stormed or collosi'd to death, in stead keep your good position and expand behind it, sooner or later he will have to come out and that is when you crush him with a superior arc | ||
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Shaoer
United States60 Posts
1) spread units into different places 2) keep a templar at each base + a few warp ins open. 3) keep army in a ball and follow you around If he continues with Option 1: , simply push his front. Protoss death ball needs to be a BALL for it to be effective. Imagine an army of zealot/sentry against MMM, it would be a convincing loss for toss. Only with stalker(chasing down units/medivacs), colis(stopping you for stuttering too much), templar(same as coli), full army would you be scared. And if he pulls all his stalkers to stop drops, perfect, vikings forward and snipe coli. If he continues with Option 2: you laugh and win(jkjk). You run your units into probe line and profit. What's he gonna do? Storm you? lol probes die in 1 storm, your army can just stim out of it(whilst taking damage). If he warps in, estimate who's gonna win, and either pull back or engage. If he continues with Option 3: Just easily out multitask him and engage when he's not at a base. Kill probes. Kill economy. Win TL;DR Don't engage templars directly, make it so it's hard to engage you with templars | ||
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guN-viCe
United States687 Posts
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ETisME
12471 Posts
In an engagement, I just keep poking with my thors and if he used feed back, I can just repair if he still has high HT counts. If he doesn't have a lot of HTs and used feedback, then I can just stim in and spread the units out a little | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On January 16 2013 05:01 Shaoer wrote: I think the main issue with templar is the baby sitting required. Let me elaborate, a lot of the times me(Protoss-Mid Masters) will win a PvT easily, other times I will lose convincingly. The difference is in multitasking. If a terran does a lot of drops(basically mineral trades), the protoss is forced to do one of the following: 1) spread units into different places 2) keep a templar at each base + a few warp ins open. 3) keep army in a ball and follow you around [...] If he continues with Option 2: you laugh and win(jkjk). You run your units into probe line and profit. What's he gonna do? Storm you? lol probes die in 1 storm, your army can just stim out of it(whilst taking damage). If he warps in, estimate who's gonna win, and either pull back or engage. [...] wait what? defensive templar are considered the best drop defense there is: it's not about the storm but the feedback that makes dealing with the drop forces considerably easier as well as putting the terran at risk of losing his dropships (and more often than not at least one dropship already dies to the feedback) And if T brings in low energy dropships P can still use storm and warpins to fight, especially because the healing ability of the medvacs is already low. With the building placement of most tosses being designed to block hellions from circleing the mineral line it also shouldn't be able to just walk in the probe line as long as the toss reacts in time (also: probe pulling anyone?). I'm not saying that drops against templar defense are pointless, yet they are way more difficult and ur "just do this advice" makes it sound ridiculous. at least include more advice, like using low energy medvacs (all full on energy? stim before the drop so u can lower the energy ). | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On January 15 2013 16:19 sc2pal wrote: always have enough scan before fight to see everything, its terran biggest advantage Yep I think scans are the big thing to beating protoss and storm. Bakhu I assue your opponents have also colossi in addition to the hts, otherwise you should have no problem hitting emps and snipes since your ghosts outrange everything else. Ergo you should have vikings, use them in combination with scans to kill the observer and see where the hts are. Then your cloaked ghosts will have a timing window where you can just send them and emp/snipe everything. Seems cheap but works really often, even on high level. In Platinum you opponents shouldn't have more than 2 obeservers with their army. That's just another tactic in addition to all the other things said about splitting, big areas, flanking etc., you might want to try out. | ||
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Shaoer
United States60 Posts
On January 16 2013 20:14 tar wrote: wait what? defensive templar are considered the best drop defense there is: it's not about the storm but the feedback that makes dealing with the drop forces considerably easier as well as putting the terran at risk of losing his dropships (and more often than not at least one dropship already dies to the feedback) And if T brings in low energy dropships P can still use storm and warpins to fight, especially because the healing ability of the medvacs is already low. With the building placement of most tosses being designed to block hellions from circleing the mineral line it also shouldn't be able to just walk in the probe line as long as the toss reacts in time (also: probe pulling anyone?). I'm not saying that drops against templar defense are pointless, yet they are way more difficult and ur "just do this advice" makes it sound ridiculous. at least include more advice, like using low energy medvacs (all full on energy? stim before the drop so u can lower the energy ). Defensive templars are the best IF they spot the dropship in time. Even in pro games where templars are spread out across bases, storms are used more often b/c it's just kinda hard to spot a drop ship and have that fast a reaction time. Usually its storm being used. | ||
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Risljaninasim
Netherlands228 Posts
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:20 Bahku wrote: I've tried this, like sending in 2 marines & 2 marauders to try and snipe a templar. It always just gets killed by the rest of the army instead of getting stormed lol. try sniping with the unit with the "snipe" spell instead | ||
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Kaitokid
Germany1327 Posts
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