EPT[G] MVPTAiLS' Safe Stargate Build (PvP) - Page 4
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coldSnaH
50 Posts
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sharpz
Sweden9 Posts
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sharpz
Sweden9 Posts
On December 02 2012 10:43 coldSnaH wrote: Question, how do you hold 4 gate warp prism all in? As this is the main reason I don't go pheonix. probably pick off warp prism with phoenix, preferably before it hits ur base but otherwise to stop reinforcements and if necessary sac a few probes to win time and get more units out | ||
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coldSnaH
50 Posts
probably pick off warp prism with phoenix, preferably before it hits ur base but otherwise to stop reinforcements and if necessary sac a few probes to win time and get more units out hmmm I probably already thought of that if it was possible.... | ||
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SidewinderSC2
United States236 Posts
On December 02 2012 10:43 coldSnaH wrote: Question, how do you hold 4 gate warp prism all in? As this is the main reason I don't go pheonix. Phoenix is basically a straight-up counter to WP 4gate. Just attack the Warp Prism, take solace that he will eventually not be able to reinforce where the battle is going on, and you will be ahead in tech and economy assuming you don't lose probes to the attack. Just rally Phoenix to the most likely WP entry point in your base and put them on patrol if you are worried. Phoenix + Zealot is really strong in small battles. WP 4gates are also quite awkward, timing-wise, so they don't hit nearly as early as a regular 4gate. | ||
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bertu
Brazil871 Posts
On December 02 2012 10:43 coldSnaH wrote: Question, how do you hold 4 gate warp prism all in? As this is the main reason I don't go pheonix. If you are not confident in holding the 4 gate warp prism with the BO in this topic, you could try going phoenix with this opening: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302117 Anyways, post a replay and we can give you more specific advice. | ||
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sharpz
Sweden9 Posts
On December 02 2012 14:39 coldSnaH wrote: hmmm I probably already thought of that if it was possible.... why isn't it possible? pick off warp prism, use phoenix and new warpins and if necessary a few probes to kill off his 4gate? then u can pressure him and force him to warp in sentries and stalkers to fend off phoenix/gateway aggression and expand behind it | ||
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Ruin
United States271 Posts
On December 02 2012 23:59 sharpz wrote: why isn't it possible? pick off warp prism, use phoenix and new warpins and if necessary a few probes to kill off his 4gate? then u can pressure him and force him to warp in sentries and stalkers to fend off phoenix/gateway aggression and expand behind it Saw naniwa do this on his stream without even scouting it at all. Had like 10 gateway units in his base very early and just used probes + gateway units to clean it up while using the pheonix to kill the prism. I think 4 gate warp prism is only good vs greedy builds like dt expand or zealot sentry sentry robo. | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
I tried to avoid that too, turns out that a smart opponent will fake a 4Gate and force you into making additional Sentries while expanding/teching. Just saying that because in the build order skeleton you mentioned an early scout on 4 player maps but no scout on 2player maps except for proxies. Anyway I am still not fully convinced that this build is superior to a blind Robo Phoenix. Blind Robo means earlier detection/Immortals against DTs/Blink. Blind Robo also means that you do not have to scout with your first Phoenix, instead you can save up to 3 and immediatelly deal damage, you will still arive before the dark shrine finishes I believe. Also against someone going Phoenix and scouting with the first one you will be able to kill it. By the time his first Phoenix reaches your base you have 2 waiting there already. Killing one Phoenix makes up for the cost of the Robo. Yes, it will make a Phoenix bust against Immortal expand weaker but that is the only scenario I feel you get a disadvantage. And against Immortal/Sentry expand Phoenixes will do so much damage you can win a macro game easily. ( I usually get 20-30 Probe kills over the course of the game) I don't mean to say this build is bad or anything (Pros don't use bad builds anymore...) but I think it is more likely to lose you a game without perfect game sense and the reward is very, very little. | ||
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
On December 13 2012 18:44 rEalGuapo wrote: Do you really not Probescout on 2 player maps? I tried to avoid that too, turns out that a smart opponent will fake a 4Gate and force you into making additional Sentries while expanding/teching. Just saying that because in the build order skeleton you mentioned an early scout on 4 player maps but no scout on 2player maps except for proxies. Anyway I am still not fully convinced that this build is superior to a blind Robo Phoenix. Blind Robo means earlier detection/Immortals against DTs/Blink. Blind Robo also means that you do not have to scout with your first Phoenix, instead you can save up to 3 and immediatelly deal damage, you will still arive before the dark shrine finishes I believe. Also against someone going Phoenix and scouting with the first one you will be able to kill it. By the time his first Phoenix reaches your base you have 2 waiting there already. Killing one Phoenix makes up for the cost of the Robo. Yes, it will make a Phoenix bust against Immortal expand weaker but that is the only scenario I feel you get a disadvantage. And against Immortal/Sentry expand Phoenixes will do so much damage you can win a macro game easily. ( I usually get 20-30 Probe kills over the course of the game) I don't mean to say this build is bad or anything (Pros don't use bad builds anymore...) but I think it is more likely to lose you a game without perfect game sense and the reward is very, very little. These are actually all very valid points, and your analysis is spot on in most cases. The biggest advantages of a Phoenix build like this are the flexibility in getting air upgrades and potential to play a little bit greedier as a reaction to what your zealot on the watch tower sees. The phoenix + blind robo build does have it's own set of advantages though, and as long as you are able to keep making phoenixes constantly, it might even be a superior build, as you no longer lose to YOLO phoenixes (when someone hides their first phoenixes in their base to surprise you - this autoloses to DTs if they don't have a robo) and the faster robo does help out against blink all-ins and just standard blink+obs play. | ||
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