EPT[G] short guide on easy wins in PvZ - Page 14
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moQbara
Romania76 Posts
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itsNifty
Netherlands29 Posts
Basically what does the protoss have at 12 min, a mothership and a very low unit count. Without a Robo even, when the Zerg player can figure out such stuff its over. The blord stuff does not come into play, if you do it properly this build is long dead by then. | ||
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shinyA
United States473 Posts
If you saw that cast by Duncan Trussel it was me doing this vs Ostojiy in ESEA actually, lame you taking credit for it. | ||
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moQbara
Romania76 Posts
I see your point and I'm still waiting for higher level replays (out of curiosity alone  ).@shinyA, Unlike you, the p00n put a lot of time and effort in writing down this specific guide and he's being appreciated especially for the guide, not for vortexing zerg units and sending archons in as well. Do you have a similar guide (for this build) on TL forums or what exactly do you want credit for? Also, if you're as good as you claim to be, you could help answer the questions regarding roach pushes @ 11:30 - 12min (from a GM level perspective). I'm sure you'll get some appreciation as well. | ||
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shinyA
United States473 Posts
On July 28 2012 01:41 moQbara wrote: @itsNifty, I see your point and I'm still waiting for higher level replays (out of curiosity alone ).@shinyA, Unlike you, the p00n put a lot of time and effort in writing down this specific guide and he's being appreciated especially for the guide, not for vortexing zerg units and sending archons in as well. Do you have a similar guide (for this build) on TL forums or what exactly do you want credit for? Also, if you're as good as you claim to be, you could help answer the questions regarding roach pushes @ 11:30 - 12min (from a GM level perspective). I'm sure you'll get some appreciation as well. Why would I want appreciation? I didn't do anything for you to appreciate other than the fact that I'm the creator of this concept and I've perfected a build around it for the past 8 months and have beaten every top Zerg that plays on NA with it and have beaten a lot of top Zergs in clan wars and tournaments with it. So I wouldn't say I want appreciation as much as recognition. What he wrote is a poor build based on my concept and will auto die to a lot of builds and I highly, highly doubt he has a 92% win percentage unless he's like low masters and losing every game in his other matchups. Off of the top of my head after skimming the OP, you won't live against nonstop aggression with only 8 gateways, when you go archon/zealot you can easily support 11 gateways as you're warping in 50 mineral cost HT's and 100 mineral cost Zealots. There's also like no situation in which you can take your third before your mothership/adding gateways. | ||
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Shikada
Serbia976 Posts
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
On July 28 2012 01:13 shinyA wrote:lame you taking credit for it I'm sorry but I think you perceive yourself as too big of a deal. I generally do not follow unknowns on non-EU/NA/KR servers. And if you have been using this for the past 8 months... I have been doing it for longer than 8 months, and the proof of this is my previous thread backed up with replays that are 10 months old. | ||
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YumYumGranola
Canada344 Posts
It was probably a bit too wordy though...I think your guide on "getting easy wins" could have been more succinctly summarized: "pick protoss and make sure your at least half as good as your opponent." Jk | ||
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shinyA
United States473 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:15 the p00n wrote: I'm sorry but I think you perceive yourself as too big of a deal. I generally do not follow unknowns on non-EU/NA/KR servers. And if you have been using this for the past 8 months... I have been doing it for longer than 8 months, and the proof of this is my previous thread backed up with replays that are 10 months old. The problem is you're probably low masters, so you not knowing who I am is irrelevant. I've been doing this for a long time and have gotten a lot of people commenting on me doing it, my games being streamed and casted with thousands of hits etc. So when I see someone posting a bad build based on the concept I've been using it's kind of annoying because I can tell you aren't good at it and to be honest it looks like you threw it together in a couple of minutes because there's so much wrong with the way you wrote it and there's tons of auto losses that you would encounter which makes the "92% win PvZ" very, very hard to believe. Like, even if you did have a 92% win ratio in PvZ on ladder there's no way you could sustain that and still stay at the same ladder rank. Seriously, what league/points are you? If you were winning every PvZ for a relatively long period of time then you would be very high ranked. Also; "I generally do not follow unknowns on non-EU/NA/KR servers". What does that mean? Would that imply that I'm not on EU/NA/KR? I've been GM on NA for 6 seasons and I have GM MMR on KR, I don't really understand what you're implying by that statement. The only non-EU/NA/KR servers are CN/SEA? ;; | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On July 28 2012 12:25 shinyA wrote: The problem is you're probably low masters, so you not knowing who I am is irrelevant. I've been doing this for a long time and have gotten a lot of people commenting on me doing it, my games being streamed and casted with thousands of hits etc. So when I see someone posting a bad build based on the concept I've been using it's kind of annoying because I can tell you aren't good at it and to be honest it looks like you threw it together in a couple of minutes because there's so much wrong with the way you wrote it and there's tons of auto losses that you would encounter which makes the "92% win PvZ" very, very hard to believe. Like, even if you did have a 92% win ratio in PvZ on ladder there's no way you could sustain that and still stay at the same ladder rank. Seriously, what league/points are you? If you were winning every PvZ for a relatively long period of time then you would be very high ranked. Also; "I generally do not follow unknowns on non-EU/NA/KR servers". What does that mean? Would that imply that I'm not on EU/NA/KR? I've been GM on NA for 6 seasons and I have GM MMR on KR, I don't really understand what you're implying by that statement. The only non-EU/NA/KR servers are CN/SEA? ;; If you want to prove that you know more about the build, could you do us all a favor and tell us what you know about it? It would be nice to have some more information about the build. Also, have you considered that there is such a thing as parallel evolution? Sometimes two different people figure out the same concept, independently. | ||
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DeathToSquid
United States20 Posts
For late attacks, the mothership pops before big aggression hits, and in my games they didn't scout the mothership so they had no detection. That delayed their attack long enough for me to get up several archons and a pile of zealots. Using the one void ray you can deny them a lot of information. If they decide to attack, by hiding behind cannons, abusing your strong economy, and smart use of vortex and it is quite possible to hold everything I ran into. Thanks a lot for the post, this is an exciting new take on the match up, and now every time I find a new match I cross my fingers and hope its Zerg!! | ||
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hillman
United States162 Posts
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On July 28 2012 12:25 shinyA wrote: The problem is you're probably low masters, so you not knowing who I am is irrelevant. I've been doing this for a long time and have gotten a lot of people commenting on me doing it, my games being streamed and casted with thousands of hits etc. So when I see someone posting a bad build based on the concept I've been using it's kind of annoying because I can tell you aren't good at it and to be honest it looks like you threw it together in a couple of minutes because there's so much wrong with the way you wrote it and there's tons of auto losses that you would encounter which makes the "92% win PvZ" very, very hard to believe. Like, even if you did have a 92% win ratio in PvZ on ladder there's no way you could sustain that and still stay at the same ladder rank. Seriously, what league/points are you? If you were winning every PvZ for a relatively long period of time then you would be very high ranked. Also; "I generally do not follow unknowns on non-EU/NA/KR servers". What does that mean? Would that imply that I'm not on EU/NA/KR? I've been GM on NA for 6 seasons and I have GM MMR on KR, I don't really understand what you're implying by that statement. The only non-EU/NA/KR servers are CN/SEA? ;; Have you ever thought that someone else can also have similar ideas but just execute and test it differently or worse than you? if you really want recognition just make a guide about it. | ||
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moQbara
Romania76 Posts
On July 29 2012 15:40 hillman wrote: Lol this build is trash against anyone who scouts...sorry if that's mean but its my opinion....2 base mothership really? You must have decent mechanics/micro because that's the only way I can see you winning with such a "great build"... How exactly do you scout it in time if the voidray and phoenix kill all the nearby overlords? | ||
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DeathToSquid
United States20 Posts
The voidray comes out very quickly, so most of the time when I do this strategy the Zerg thinks I am doing early air aggression and starts cranking queens and throwing up spore crawlers, which really just plays into your hand. By the time they realize that isn't what your doing your mothership should be done or close to done and you should be building a third base backed up by plenty of warp gates and templar archives, and +1 attack (though you have almost no units). At that point, if they want to punish you they are in a bad position (spores/queens are just dead weight) and if they don't then you just finished a clean transition to an awesome late game army on 3 base at 12 minutes. Either way its bad for them. Please keep in mind this is only with Plat level opponents, and both my opponents and I make a lot of mistakes. I am consistently behind OP getting everything up, and my opponents are no Stephano (so clearly it works if your micro / mechanics are NOT amazing, assuming you and your opponent are both on an equal level). I don't see why the strategy would be any less viable if we were both better, or worse - and since it works for OP, it clearly works at a high level. I think the biggest keys are: 1) Staying active with the VR, spotting any all ins, denying scouting 2) Trusting the build and going straight to the mothership with non-stop chrono boosts. If you get nervous and make some units (when he isn't doing an all in, that is), your dead; you absolutely need the mothership and tech to hold. Games included - despite getting scouted and many obvious holes and problems with my play the build worked great. Compare resources lost all game - its almost 10 to 1 http://replayfu.com/download/7S5Hqj Very early try, where I messed up the build terribly and it still worked http://replayfu.com/download/GjsbQj | ||
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thousand
Poland41 Posts
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
On July 30 2012 21:36 thousand wrote: After researching +3 weapons do you continue with armor or shield upgrades (obviously better for archons)? Shields, as I usually go into mass air when the game isn't won at this point (i.e. he has one billion spines). Shields benefit archons more and slightly benefit zealots while also benefiting air, whereas ground doesn't do that much. | ||
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Odmjun
Norway3 Posts
On July 28 2012 01:13 shinyA wrote: I made this build first, I was first and no one else have had similar ideas, fuck poon for stealing and taking credit People can have the same ideas, claiming that this is your build only makes you look like a fool. You even claim that he does many things wrong which you do not do, therefore making it two different, but similar builds. Just get out if you are going to be obnoxious and not contribute to the thread, you are basically spamming. The same goes for the guy below. I mean what the fuck is the point of your post? On July 29 2012 15:40 hillman wrote: Lol this build is trash against anyone who scouts...sorry if that's mean but its my opinion....2 base mothership really? You must have decent mechanics/micro because that's the only way I can see you winning with such a "great build"... | ||
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DeathToSquid
United States20 Posts
The same goes for the guy below. I mean what the fuck is the point of your post? On July 29 2012 15:40 hillman wrote: Lol this build is trash against anyone who scouts...sorry if that's mean but its my opinion....2 base mothership really? You must have decent mechanics/micro because that's the only way I can see you winning with such a "great build"... He had an opinion at least... that if you were scouted they could easily counter it unless you had great micro/macro. That's why I posted 2 replays where I got scouted, my micro and macro were both clearly terrible, and the build still worked just fine. As OP says, this build is actually relatively "easy" in that it DOESN'T require amazing micro. p00n, what would you recommend if your scouting probe dies before seeing a 3rd? Continuing with the mothership rush against a 2 base all in would be risky, so if you continue as normal until a second probe gets to the 3rd you might be in trouble. On the other hand, if you wall up and he just expanded then you are in trouble when the 12-13 minute push comes. Also, do you every try a mass recall to get by a spine wall? It seems viable if he doesn't have a large number of corrupters up, though if you run the risk losing due to your inability to retreat. | ||
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Jetaap
France4814 Posts
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