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[G] PvT - Liquid`NonY's 1/1 Colossus Push

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 07:34:37
July 12 2012 11:50 GMT
#1
--- Nuked ---
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
July 12 2012 12:22 GMT
#2
Why not just go 1 gate FE into a colossus push like squirtle does occasionally? It hits faster and stronger.

Why would you add a forge into this timing? Upgrades are not that stellar for a colossus push because you tend to be stalker heavy, a unit that hardly benefits from upgrades. It weakens the timing and doesn't even make you transition that much better as you can easily go for the timing and drop double forge if you want to transition instead.

I think colo pushes are best just starting off with a 1 gate FE into 3 gate robo. If you see they expanded and suspect they are on normal play or a fast third you can drop a fast support bay and just go push when you have 2 colo and range. Adding in a forge or expanding too late slows down the push tremendously which gives up the window of opportunity. Pushing early means you push before substantial medivacs/vikings are out which removes the option of a base trade or just an easy defense with vikings for them. A colo push vs T basically depends on your colossi being able to abuse range before vikings counter them too well. The timing in this guide is so late that when you're up agianst standard play they can easily have a couple medivacs AND a bunch of vikings already. At that point they can punish you when you're moving out with a drop and/or they can defend the push with vikings.

Nony's 2 gate robo play is just horribly outdated nowadays. Back when maps where substantially smaller and more random scary stuff for terran existed (thor allin's, blue flame hellion drops, 1-1-1 etc.) it was fairly good. Nowadays 1 gate FE can easily stop all these funky plays and is just critical in keeping up with 1 rax FE or even CC first.
SilSol
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden2744 Posts
July 12 2012 12:36 GMT
#3
I've done a pretty similar build way before. It's nothing new to me. And i'm being honest.
http://fragbite.se/user/117868/silsol since 2006 http://www.reddit.com/u/silsol77
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-12 12:51:05
July 12 2012 12:45 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 16:25:06
July 16 2012 16:17 GMT
#5
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Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 18:40:14
July 16 2012 18:39 GMT
#6
Very apreciated the effort in the guide.

Still i think 1gate expo is much better for eco and for a faster hit timming.

Also, for a +1/+1 collosus push, not offense but Genius have done it a lot of times in the gsl with +50% success, and i find it more than the Tyler build. Also i think that the timings from the preparation for a GSL code S match should be tighter than the ones from anyone else.

Genius vs MVP, GSL 2012 Season 3, Ohana i believe, an example of it.
Also Genius vs MKP in an older GSL.
Chicken gank op
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 07:34:05
December 14 2012 07:28 GMT
#7
--- Nuked ---
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
December 14 2012 08:03 GMT
#8
What do you think about ST_Squirtle's 2-base Colossus all-in in comparison to this one? It hits a lot faster with the same 3 ranged Colossi, but without upgrades. (It also only goes up to 6 gates, since it hits faster and all.)
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
HuTSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia188 Posts
December 14 2012 08:21 GMT
#9
Wait what, 2 gate robo before expand?

How does this not just die to marauders + medivacs in good numbers which Terran SHOULD have?
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 16:49:04
December 14 2012 08:47 GMT
#10
--- Nuked ---
459
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden69 Posts
December 14 2012 09:14 GMT
#11
Thank you for writing this strat down! Great job!
Going to try it out. And maybe compare it to the squirtle build and see how it feels.
Is this build especially bad / good at any maps?


Grats to over 2k posts.
Scrap station was the best map in SC2 history!
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 09:25:30
December 14 2012 09:22 GMT
#12
--- Nuked ---
Surili
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1141 Posts
December 14 2012 11:56 GMT
#13
On December 14 2012 17:47 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 17:03 Salivanth wrote:
What do you think about ST_Squirtle's 2-base Colossus all-in in comparison to this one? It hits a lot faster with the same 3 ranged Colossi, but without upgrades. (It also only goes up to 6 gates, since it hits faster and all.)

Squirtle's build hits much earlier and so moves out against a Terran who probably won't have any Vikings. This obviously makes the Colossi really strong as they don't have a direct counter. In exchange for this earlier timing, you have a much smaller army size advantage, less reinforcement capability and no upgrades.

This build moves out with a much bigger army advantage, more reinforcement capability, 1/1 upgrades, and against a Terran who is likely to be spread out over 3 bases. In exchange, you're likely to be going up against a Terran who has Vikings ready to counter your Colossi, placing more emphasis on Stalker/Force Field micro than with Squirtle's build.

Which is better? I don't really think you can compare them that easily since they are designed to hit different timings and require different levels of control, but I guess you'd have to say that Squirtle's build is better since it's more widely used. I just don't personally like opening 1 Gate FE.

Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 17:21 HuTSC2 wrote:
Wait what, 2 gate robo before expand?

How does this not just die to marauders + medivacs in good numbers which Terran SHOULD have?

(Wiki)Stalker
(Wiki)Force Field

More seriously, you're underestimating the army value advantage this build accumulates over the course of the game...

[image loading]



That is a PvP game...
The world is ending what should we do about it?
eslostdevil
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2 Posts
December 14 2012 13:28 GMT
#14
thanks for the guide, will have a try tonight!!
iKill
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Denmark861 Posts
December 14 2012 14:31 GMT
#15
On December 14 2012 17:03 Salivanth wrote:
What do you think about ST_Squirtle's 2-base Colossus all-in in comparison to this one? It hits a lot faster with the same 3 ranged Colossi, but without upgrades. (It also only goes up to 6 gates, since it hits faster and all.)



Do you have a BO on that build, actually? I've been looking for it forever.
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
ThaSlayer
Profile Joined March 2011
707 Posts
December 14 2012 14:44 GMT
#16
On December 14 2012 20:56 Surili wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 17:47 Sated wrote:
On December 14 2012 17:03 Salivanth wrote:
What do you think about ST_Squirtle's 2-base Colossus all-in in comparison to this one? It hits a lot faster with the same 3 ranged Colossi, but without upgrades. (It also only goes up to 6 gates, since it hits faster and all.)

Squirtle's build hits much earlier and so moves out against a Terran who probably won't have any Vikings. This obviously makes the Colossi really strong as they don't have a direct counter. In exchange for this earlier timing, you have a much smaller army size advantage, less reinforcement capability and no upgrades.

This build moves out with a much bigger army advantage, more reinforcement capability, 1/1 upgrades, and against a Terran who is likely to be spread out over 3 bases. In exchange, you're likely to be going up against a Terran who has Vikings ready to counter your Colossi, placing more emphasis on Stalker/Force Field micro than with Squirtle's build.

Which is better? I don't really think you can compare them that easily since they are designed to hit different timings and require different levels of control, but I guess you'd have to say that Squirtle's build is better since it's more widely used. I just don't personally like opening 1 Gate FE.

On December 14 2012 17:21 HuTSC2 wrote:
Wait what, 2 gate robo before expand?

How does this not just die to marauders + medivacs in good numbers which Terran SHOULD have?

(Wiki)Stalker
(Wiki)Force Field

More seriously, you're underestimating the army value advantage this build accumulates over the course of the game...

[image loading]



That is a PvP game...

I think he meant to show two tosses doing different builds and how Nony's build came on top. Comparison.
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
December 14 2012 14:52 GMT
#17
1 gate fe isnt risky. Like...at all. You put yourself sooo far behind on econ with the two gate + robo before nexus. And at 12-13 min is late to me for a two base all in. You have no third and no TC to ger charge or blink along with 2/0/2..
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 15:13:52
December 14 2012 15:06 GMT
#18
--- Nuked ---
Dubsy
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada186 Posts
December 14 2012 15:48 GMT
#19
Yeah... I wouldn't really recommend this build. To anyone. It hits very late at a point where Terran will unquestionably have a solid Viking count, a completed 3rd either in his base or mining his 3rd, and all hi important bio upgrades. With no 3rd or TC it's tough to transition from this. It's just a really, really slow all in that has an almost 0% chance of catchin someone off guard.
With a right-left, right-left you're toothless, And then you say "Goddamn they ruthless!"
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
December 14 2012 16:05 GMT
#20
Slightly off topic: Does nony really still 2G robo expand in PvT on ladder a lot?
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