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On February 04 2013 16:05 DW-Unrec wrote:I don't think this is pratical since we are not used to cross using the keyboard, thus we are throwing away 5000+ hours of practice that we had using the keyboard normally. I've used PCs since I was a child, I can position my left hand on the left side of the keyboard and start typing with my eyes closed. Using this layout I can't even position my hands on the right keys+. Of course its a matter of practice, but I have years worth of practice using the keyboard normally.
I felt the same difficulty the first day in Hotkey Trainer, but when I came back the 2nd and 3rd days I could immediately tell I'd improved. I think it's like strength training, where you can only get so much done in a day. I'm 35 and I've touched-typed for 20 years and I'm fast. I still think I can learn JIOP. I can hit the HNM keys fine now, and the first day that seemed 100% impossible.
I do need 5 minutes of warmup in Hotkey Trainer before playing games though. Also I bought these keyboard stickers called "loc dots" to put tactile feedback on my JIOP keys.
On February 04 2013 17:02 vrumFondel wrote:You can use DarkGrid layout - Here!. It's all in the left side of the keyboard and provide some advantages compared to a usuall grid(such as layered cameras and compact CG's). Tyr it!
He might like Chameleon more than Darkgrid, since he seems to like ASDF keys a lot. The authors settled on saying Chamelon is better for macroing off the keyboard, and Darkgrid better if you have 2 control groups on the mouse and macro off those.
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Hey all, and Jack!
After practicing the core for over two months, and a grand total of almost 200 hours, which translate to about 600 games. I was master on WOL, and I think on my way to master in HOTS (dia 1st with 700 points right now).
I started with the core because it was the right thing to do, and not the easy one. And indeed- right, and not easy, at all.
The transition was very painful for me (others who tried said it wasn't as bad, guess it is individual). it is down right BETTER then standard or grid, I can now do things I simply couldn't do before, like a boss ( specifically - return to base several times during harass and make actions). I don't misclick much anymore, except for some rare occasions like lategame tvp which I try to avoid, and the patrol and hold position keys - but this will go away in time I'm sure!
All in all worth the time for:
1. Noobs below 1k games
2. people who played alot, and want to go pro - and are not pro yet - it is worth to invest.
Not worth it for:
1. people who played 1000s of games, and don't want to become grand master - may not be worth 100 hours of practice.
I want to thank you Jack for this epic work, and helping me improve my game, even though the transition was super hard (for me).
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On February 04 2013 21:26 Morsk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2013 16:05 DW-Unrec wrote:I don't think this is pratical since we are not used to cross using the keyboard, thus we are throwing away 5000+ hours of practice that we had using the keyboard normally. I've used PCs since I was a child, I can position my left hand on the left side of the keyboard and start typing with my eyes closed. Using this layout I can't even position my hands on the right keys+. Of course its a matter of practice, but I have years worth of practice using the keyboard normally. I felt the same difficulty the first day in Hotkey Trainer, but when I came back the 2nd and 3rd days I could immediately tell I'd improved. I think it's like strength training, where you can only get so much done in a day. I'm 35 and I've touched-typed for 20 years and I'm fast. I still think I can learn JIOP. I can hit the HNM keys fine now, and the first day that seemed 100% impossible. I do need 5 minutes of warmup in Hotkey Trainer before playing games though. Also I bought these keyboard stickers called "loc dots" to put tactile feedback on my JIOP keys. Show nested quote +On February 04 2013 17:02 vrumFondel wrote:You can use DarkGrid layout - Here!. It's all in the left side of the keyboard and provide some advantages compared to a usuall grid(such as layered cameras and compact CG's). Tyr it! He might like Chameleon more than Darkgrid, since he seems to like ASDF keys a lot. The authors settled on saying Chamelon is better for macroing off the keyboard, and Darkgrid better if you have 2 control groups on the mouse and macro off those.
I might have to make my own variation of this chamaleon, because right now these are the only keys I can press confortably and fast
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TYOrRQs.jpg)
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@DW
That is really interesting... its easier for you to hit F1, F2, F3 than R, F and X? Which keys do you rest your fingers on?
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I've got a couple of questions specific to zerg right medium, if anyone has some experience using it.
1) How are you hotkeying your army? there's a suggested key for infestor ";" but the rest just say harass (or hots units). what has worked for people?
2) how many hatcheries are you injecting, in the late game? with the 6 layered camera keys you could get 6 hatches, but is this really necessary? are there other preferred uses for these keys?
edit: also, out of shear curiosity, does anytime use the large hotkey setups? my left hand is pretty wide (octave +2 white keys on piano comfortably) and the large setups seem enormous.
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I've been playing with the TheCore for 2/3 weeks now, and slowly starting to get the hang of it (it is rather awkward in the beginning).
I was wondering how people handle tapping between making probes, army production, etc. especially for Protoss. What tap-sequence do people use in general ?
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Are there HoTS keys or not?
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On February 06 2013 06:48 Lobotomist wrote:
I've got a couple of questions specific to zerg right medium, if anyone has some experience using it.
1) How are you hotkeying your army? there's a suggested key for infestor ";" but the rest just say harass (or hots units). what has worked for people?
2) how many hatcheries are you injecting, in the late game? with the 6 layered camera keys you could get 6 hatches, but is this really necessary? are there other preferred uses for these keys?
edit: also, out of shear curiosity, does anytime use the large hotkey setups? my left hand is pretty wide (octave +2 white keys on piano comfortably) and the large setups seem enormous.
Hi, I am a plat zerg who has been using the core for about 4 months now. I use the following set up with The Core ZRM 0.6:
9 main army
0 brood lords
- vipers
L mutas
; infestors
' swarm hosts
P hatch
P* all queens
[ Creep queens
] Ovies and tech buildings
Based on the game i can reuse control groups based on situation, for example ' is also my scouting drone at game start and sometimes i hotkey spines to this as well. 0 can be blings with 9 lings in early zvz games.
I inject 6 bases plus the macro hatch or two i might have, i never found the need to have more than that.
I only use ZRM, no experience with the large hotkey set ups.
Hope this helps.
-Aummadour
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On February 06 2013 10:23 Pucca wrote:
Are there HoTS keys or not?
Yes, TheCore works with HotS.
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Gold Terran here (so intimidating to post on a board amongst pros and masters/gms)
I switched to the core about two weeks ago and I just want to say thank you guys so much for the awesome hotkey setup. I've only been playing sc2 since last May and using standard really made macro harder than it needed to be to learn. I eventually got all the keys for the races under my fingers but it was all I could do to just focus on making stuff without having an army to control (so literally all my units were on 1 key and I just 1a'd everywhere). I DID get to gold (shut up you guys it's an accomplishment) but I always wondered about there being a better way.
Thankfully since I've only played about 400 games, I was able to make new muscle memory for the core really quickly by playing on a friend's bronze account (it's gold too now) and it's really fantastic feeling to be able to keep my buildings producing, transfer when I need to, have an army on the map, AND have drops on different keys. It all comes down to practice but the setup really does just feel natural once it comes under. I still haven't gotten the positional hotkeys down (my mechanics still aren't what they were and I'm trying to get back to that first) and my most common mistake is lifting a building instead of making a tech lab (painful), but I'll get there.
Thanks aside, I was wondering what the hotkey for setting scvs to auto repair was with the core. It was alt-r in standard, but I haven't quite figured it out in the core yet.
Also, while I'm here I may as well ask the noobiest question: How does one stutterstep? I always just kinda a- moved, then moved then a-moved and so forth. Is there a better way?
TLDR thanks guys <3
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Wow, seems great! What about people with mices, that have additional buttons? I have Razer Naga Epic, so I can reach all group buttons with ease. How should I modify TheCore, then?
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@DaveSprite
I'm glad you're liking TheCore! I believe that setting auto repair with TheCore is done using alt+[repair hotkey], which depends on which layout you are using. This is a bit annoying b/c it will center the camera on your selected scvs, but I'm pretty sure there is no way for us to customize it to be something else.
As for stutter-stepping, you have 3 options:
1) Move, a-move, move, a-move (as you have been doing)
2) Move, stop, move, stop (one fewer click per stutter)
3) Move, hold position, move, hold position (essentially the same as 2, but your units won't break formation at all when firing, with stop the units that aren't in range will try to get in range).
I usually do 1, especially if I'm trying to focus fire a unit (with a-click if I misclick and don't hit the unit, at least my units will still fight instead of running into the other army if I were trying to right click directly on it). I know other people who prefer one of the other two methods though.
@IcarusWing
That's really up to you. If you're comfortable using the mouse buttons for all of your control groups, or most of them, then you could do some very heavy modifications to TheCore. All of the pointer and middle finger buttons on TheCore are for control groups, so you'd have to almost completely re-do the way the keyboard hotkeys are organized (spreading the abilities out between all 4 fingers and stuff like that).
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I still think that using alt as "center view" is a bad idea. Most (if not all) pro players I've seen set base cameras right at the start of the game, which obviously seems the most efficient way, because there is not that much to do.
Centering view at selection otherwise seems pretty pointless. Am I missing something?
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On February 07 2013 01:43 Czarnodziej wrote:
I still think that using alt as "center view" is a bad idea. Most (if not all) pro players I've seen set base cameras right at the start of the game, which obviously seems the most efficient way, because there is not that much to do.
Centering view at selection otherwise seems pretty pointless. Am I missing something?
You can do this with alt as "center view" in TheCore (hold down alt the whole time, and you can set all the camera locations, it only centers when you press it at first). The reason why it is good is because it's very nice to be able to have your base cams exactly centered on your bases, so while you can do your initial set-up, once you start an expo you can then re-set the base cam on it and have it be perfectly centered b/c of alt.
Of course, like anything else in TheCore, you are free to change the way it works if you don't like it.
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On February 07 2013 01:43 Czarnodziej wrote:
I still think that using alt as "center view" is a bad idea. Most (if not all) pro players I've seen set base cameras right at the start of the game, which obviously seems the most efficient way, because there is not that much to do.
Centering view at selection otherwise seems pretty pointless. Am I missing something?
I still set them at the beginning of each game; you just need to keep holding down alt so you don't keep jumping back to your main.
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On February 06 2013 11:45 Aummadour wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 06:48 Lobotomist wrote:
I've got a couple of questions specific to zerg right medium, if anyone has some experience using it.
1) How are you hotkeying your army? there's a suggested key for infestor ";" but the rest just say harass (or hots units). what has worked for people?
2) how many hatcheries are you injecting, in the late game? with the 6 layered camera keys you could get 6 hatches, but is this really necessary? are there other preferred uses for these keys?
edit: also, out of shear curiosity, does anytime use the large hotkey setups? my left hand is pretty wide (octave +2 white keys on piano comfortably) and the large setups seem enormous. Hi, I am a plat zerg who has been using the core for about 4 months now. I use the following set up with The Core ZRM 0.6: 9 main army 0 brood lords - vipers L mutas ; infestors ' swarm hosts P hatch P* all queens [ Creep queens ] Ovies and tech buildings Based on the game i can reuse control groups based on situation, for example ' is also my scouting drone at game start and sometimes i hotkey spines to this as well. 0 can be blings with 9 lings in early zvz games. I inject 6 bases plus the macro hatch or two i might have, i never found the need to have more than that. I only use ZRM, no experience with the large hotkey set ups. Hope this helps. -Aummadour
seems pretty good. I like the creep queens on a separate hotkey. I'll probably try something similar to this. keeping six+ hatcheries injected all game really allows for a LOT of zerglings lategame, which could be really good as a re-max against toss, if they get low on colossus/archon.
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Just one thing I've noticed.. why make P number 7 and [ number 6 for control groups? It creates dissonance from what you see and where you fingers want to go.
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On February 07 2013 12:21 killazys wrote:
Just one thing I've noticed.. why make P number 7 and [ number 6 for control groups? It creates dissonance from what you see and where you fingers want to go.
The control groups are numbered based upon the left-handed layouts, which are then mirrored for the right-handed layouts. So, Q is 6 and W is 7 in the left-handed layout, which does not create "dissonance". Personally, I don't pay any attention to the control group numbers anymore, as they are pretty meaningless in TheCore. If it really bothers you, I'd say go ahead and change them.
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Gold Protoss here, considering making the switch.
Currently the way I build structures (using modified standard) is that I have a worker who I bind to 8 at the beginning of the game and use CAPS as a alias for 8. So to build something I press CAPS CAPS (selects and centers the screen on the worker) then B E (build pylon) and click where I want it, then shift rt click a mineral patch. Probably not the optimal way but it has been fine for me.
Does anyone else bind a builder? What is the recommended keystroke combination used for building something with the core?
Thanks very much!
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On February 08 2013 00:13 Photon99 wrote:
Gold Protoss here, considering making the switch.
Currently the way I build structures (using modified standard) is that I have a worker who I bind to 8 at the beginning of the game and use CAPS as a alias for 8. So to build something I press CAPS CAPS (selects and centers the screen on the worker) then B E (build pylon) and click where I want it, then shift rt click a mineral patch. Probably not the optimal way but it has been fine for me.
Does anyone else bind a builder? What is the recommended keystroke combination used for building something with the core?
Thanks very much!
I don't think binding a builder is the best way to do it, since you will run into issues: What happens if that builder isn't at the base that you want to build at? What happens if that worker is killed? If that worker is mining gas, will you remember to shift+click back to gas instead of minerals? Moreover, that method is specific to Protoss and if you ever want to switch races you'll have to learn how to do it without using a control group on a worker. I would make one exception, though, for certain openings (e.g. FFE) where you want one dedicated worker who will build your expo, forge, gateway, and serve to fill in the gap in your wall while you wait for the first zealot.
The recommended method for building in general would be this: Base cam for the base you want to build at (shift+key), select a worker by boxing or clicking, and then build the structure, and shift+click back to minerals.
That said, TheCore has more than enough easy to access control groups for you to use one on a worker to build your structres. There are already 3 control groups that have a suggested use of Scout / Harass, so you could easily use one of those for your building worker.
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EPT
