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[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 113

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Chevron36
Profile Joined January 2011
2 Posts
January 09 2013 02:37 GMT
#2241
@JDub and @JaKaTaK

Thanks for all your hard work! Also, I'm glad there is a FAQ about CTRL-SHIFT-0 because I couldn't understand why it wasn't working (it doesn't help that I can still map it somewhere else in SC2)
Thanks!
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
January 10 2013 00:02 GMT
#2242
I use a Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard, which is split down the middle (Meaning that T, G, and B fall on the left, unreachable side of the keyboard.)

It seems that my only option is to use the "Small hand" layout - which ends up doing odd things, such as placing attack-move on K, when my fingers ought to be resting on JIOP.

Is this layout, out of the box, incompatible with split keyboards?
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 10 2013 00:53 GMT
#2243
@Nightfall

On the small hand layout you are supposed to be resting your fingers on KOP[

Everything is shifted over 1 key, including the resting position!

@everyone
Also, we have a patch for HotS so 0.6.1 will be out as soon as I can get onto my client to learn the new hotkey file words :D
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Kaz_Coaching
Profile Joined October 2010
United States83 Posts
January 10 2013 01:29 GMT
#2244
The default hotkey for quickmatch on battle.net is F2, not sure if it can be changed as I didn't see it in the hotkeys notepad. I do know that it conflicts with the music on/off command. Using ZRM .6. I have remapped my sound and music commands to Ctrl F1 and Ctrl F2 to resolve the issue.

Sunshinewalker
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany34 Posts
January 10 2013 01:30 GMT
#2245
I have a question to the terran players, who use an extra control group for marine/marauder. How does stutterstepping work in that situation? Do you have an extra control group for medivacs, do you break up the stutterstep to move your whole army til medivacs and rine/rauder are together again? Would be really cool if someone could explain that for me
Kaz_Coaching
Profile Joined October 2010
United States83 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 01:51:36
January 10 2013 01:46 GMT
#2246
I would argue that the priority of the infestor should be moved up, because the initial cost of the infestation building is required to move on to hive tech. It is more likely that zerg players will have infestor tech and make infestors than mutalisks.

At any rate, with ZRM .60, hitting N for infestors is a lot harder than 8 was. Judging from the .61 spreadsheet updated while I was typing this, it looks like you thought this too.

Edit: Also going to argue that hydra should be H (currently U) instead of swarm host as H is easier to hit and hydras are made in mass more than swarm hosts.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 10 2013 02:13 GMT
#2247
@Kaz
The question isn't "In how many games will a zerg build infestors?" The question instead is "How many times will a zerg player press the infestor button per game on average" The issue is, that we cannot be bound to the meta-game. Units will be nerfed and others buffed. Units will become popular and then unpopular. The best way we found to organize priority of units is by cost and tech. The higher tech units will be built less often than the lower tech on average. The higher cost units will be built less often than the lower cost units on average.

Feel free to use your own priority order to decide what is best for you :D

0.6.1 is updated on the Reference Spreadsheet I'll be making the changes to the files tomorrow, but if you're eager to update, feel free to do so yourself. The changes are only related to protoss units. There will be some bug fixes coming along with this patch, so definitely update to the newest version once the files are uploaded.

:D
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Kaz_Coaching
Profile Joined October 2010
United States83 Posts
January 10 2013 03:43 GMT
#2248
On January 10 2013 11:13 JaKaTaK wrote:
@Kaz
The question isn't "In how many games will a zerg build infestors?" The question instead is "How many times will a zerg player press the infestor button per game on average" The issue is, that we cannot be bound to the meta-game. Units will be nerfed and others buffed. Units will become popular and then unpopular. The best way we found to organize priority of units is by cost and tech. The higher tech units will be built less often than the lower tech on average. The higher cost units will be built less often than the lower cost units on average.

:D

ZRM .61

After more careful study it appears I didn't understand where the total cost numbers were coming from and incorrectly attributed the added cost to building expense. My apologies for being ignorant and wasting your time. I am glad to see the zerg units returned to their previous hotkeys in the most recent notes. Ironically I never realized that U is used as a larva hotkey and H is not. Had I noticed earlier I would likely have shifted some units around.

I want to mirror one of the previous posters about changing armor and weapons between ground and air. Currently the armor and weapon upgrades are swapped. I understand it was assigned based on what is used the most, and that J is the first value assigned. Because J I and O are all .25 difficulty to press, changing them would not decrease efficiency and would add some consistency.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 05:45:50
January 10 2013 05:42 GMT
#2249
Wait... I am so confused, what zerg units returned to their previous hotkeys? 0.6.1 only changed mothership/mothership core and oracle abilities. H is so far away, why would you press that? Again, super confused, help me out please.

EDIT: Also, the order for upgrades as they are, are the most logical IMO. Carapace affects more units than either melee or ranged, and has the highest priority. I understand that the difference between the homekeys is minute, but I don't see any compelling reason to go in the order arbitrarily decided on the command card.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
reliablefr
Profile Joined January 2013
Angola3 Posts
January 10 2013 06:06 GMT
#2250
--- Nuked ---
bourkes
Profile Joined May 2012
Australia9 Posts
January 10 2013 13:10 GMT
#2251
On January 10 2013 09:02 Nightfall.589 wrote:
I use a Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard, which is split down the middle (Meaning that T, G, and B fall on the left, unreachable side of the keyboard.)

It seems that my only option is to use the "Small hand" layout - which ends up doing odd things, such as placing attack-move on K, when my fingers ought to be resting on JIOP.

Is this layout, out of the box, incompatible with split keyboards?


for the small layout move your hand right 1 spot to rest on kop[
Hancho
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany89 Posts
January 10 2013 14:02 GMT
#2252
On January 09 2013 07:51 JaKaTaK wrote:
I wanted to wait a bit before we pushed the next version out, its a bit time consuming to do it for every bug. I'll update the skydrive soon.

I don’t know what the time consuming thing is but I could imagine to move all files to the correct folder on the Skydrive is maybe the lack of time.

1. If we change the structure of the GitHub repo (#2074) maybe you can simply copy the whole tree from GitHub to Skydrive. (In my opinion it is not important if the keyboard layout folder is the first (#2074) or the last one (Skydrive))

2. Another option is to link to the "raw" files on GitHub (like this US TRM 0.6) and provide the links in the op or on extra website...
On December 16 2012 03:11 JDub wrote: (#2075)
3) We'll need to make sure that people know they have to press the "Raw" button to get to the actual text file to be able to download it.

On December 16 2012 05:02 JaKaTaK wrote: (#2077)
Cool stuff. I definitely like the idea to move to GitHub. The one hurdle is the having to press the "Raw" button which can be annoying and is not user friendly IMO. I think having the Skydrive and the GitHub is the way to go. That way people who are more tech savvy can benefit from the added features that GitHub has to offer, while the people who just want the file so they can play with the layout can do so easily.

- If we link to the files there is no raw button
- The links are up-to-date as long as the filename not change (maybe a script can generate the links too (or a whole section for the op))
- In my browser (chrome) he shows me the file and don’t start a download. I don’t know how to fix this. Maybe it is possible to force with JavaScript but I don’t know (if it is possible with JavaScript the solution can be an extra website (maybe a GitHub page)???).
I don’t know how GitHub handles zip files bug maybe this is an option (if it is possible to zip with python).

---

On December 16 2012 04:42 FlOverlord wrote: (#2076)
I really like the Idea of moving to github.
Git has a feature called tags that is very handy for things like versioning.
You just tag a commit as version X and push it with: git push --tags
see http://wptheming.com/2011/04/add-remove-github-tags/ and
Git-Basics-Tagging

Dunno how this shows up in github though.

I really like this idea a lot to use tags for versions.
Is this possible with the GitHub program/website or only with the Git console?
On December 16 2012 03:11 JDub wrote: (#2075)
2) I like how GitHub will give us a changelog history automatically. The one thing it won't give us is difference's between versions, as changing the file names doesn't get logged as a change (when we switch "0.5" to "0.5.1" for example), it gets logged as deleting the old file and adding a completely new one. I'm not sure how important this is.

If you delete a file and create a new one with the same name git register this only as a change not as a file delete and a file create. So you can see the changes in the history (commit 3d1359cae6011b2848a6f4593b3a4c4747ab7851)

---

In my opinion the keyboard layout should be in the file name (like "TheCore TRM 0.6 USDvorak.SC2Hotkeys").
If someone has a problem he simply can say his file name.
You can distinguish every file by the file name.

---

In my opinion every change on the files should increase the version number.
The problem I see at the moment is that little fixes are not recognizable. (Is my current version 0.6.1 up-to-date?)

The most version numbers increase the last part for bug fixes.
I think Jak don’t want to increase the third for this little fixes.

I understand the current model of the version numbers this way:
First: beta to final / ultra big changes after release
Second: new Ideas / concept changes
Third: little changes / data document bug fixes

My suggestion is to add a
Fourth: bug fixes (no data document changes)

- Tags are only created if one of the first three parts changes (not the fourth)

If you don’t like this you can increase the third part of course
or add the fourth one and get rid of the first one (three again) and add the prefix beta ...

---

I am not sure about this one because it increases the complexity.
A branch/fork for alpha version development.
-pros
-- All GitHub features for alpha versions

-cons
-- merge
-- Maybe you have to fix bugs on two places

---

These are my ideas that come in my mind it might go too far.
I only try to help so don’t get me wrong I really appreciate the work jak, JDub and the other took into this.

On December 16 2012 03:11 JDub wrote: (#2075)
1) To clean up the folder structure, I'll need to edit the script a little bit to output the files in the appropriate sub folders. This won't be a lot of work.

I've never programmed in python but I am relatively sure that I could do the most changes (of course not as fast as JDub :D).

What do you think about this? I am looking forward to your answers.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 10 2013 15:50 GMT
#2253
Holy shit Hancho, cool ideas all. I consider all of these things in JDub's court however and will talk to him as soon as I can about your ideas, and which are going to workout with what we want. (that was a shit ton of W's, just saying)

Thanks :D
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
rezzan
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden329 Posts
January 10 2013 17:03 GMT
#2254
I dont see how this is relevant to anything... many pros play standard controls and this doesnt really give you an edge in anyway,its all about personal opinions...
Sponsored by Play3r.net and eurodomination.net www.twitch.tv/tacowtf
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 10 2013 18:01 GMT
#2255
On January 11 2013 02:03 rezzan wrote:
I dont see how this is relevant to anything... many pros play standard controls and this doesnt really give you an edge in anyway,its all about personal opinions...


I see your opinion, but where's your argument?
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 18:46:10
January 10 2013 18:38 GMT
#2256
On January 11 2013 02:03 rezzan wrote:
I dont see how this is relevant to anything... many pros play standard controls and this doesnt really give you an edge in anyway,its all about personal opinions...

I play faster with TheCore than I do with standard. I actually use camera locations now, I have more hotkeys available for my army, and I'm never reaching across the keyboard for anything. I'm more efficient and I'm faster with my actions.

If that's not giving me an edge in anyway, than I'm not sure what you mean by an "edge". Honestly, I'm baffled that these types of posts come in every so often. People apparently love to hate just for the sake of hating.

@Hancho
I really like your ideas. I'm not a Git expert at all, though, so I'll need to do a bit of reading about the stuff you bring up. I think we may need to bring you in to our e-mail list for development (Jak, me, and SixtusTheFifth).
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 22:58:05
January 10 2013 22:57 GMT
#2257
Okay, I'll be making a video with the patch notes for 0.6.1, but the files are all updated and ready to go now! :D

I'm going to say this now before the FAQ comes in "which version do I download?"

Step 1: Select your keyboard type
Step 2: Look at the first Letter of your race PTZR, this is the first letter of your version.
Step 3: L for left handed mouse users, R for right handed mouse users.
Step 4: S for small, M for medium, L for large
Step 5: M for extra mouse buttons, no M for no extra mouse buttons

Profit

GLHF,
JaK
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Tengo_Hambre
Profile Joined December 2007
United States51 Posts
January 11 2013 03:00 GMT
#2258
hey JaKaTaK,

Let me just say I think this is a great project, so much so that a dumped my old hotkey setup of 1.5 years almost immediately upon discovering TheCore.

I do have a question though: is using mouse 4/5 tournament legal usually?

Also, a suggestion (ZRM): Base camera being F10 is a bit unweildy for zergs who use that method for inject. I changed it to backspace and find it much easier. Also, perhaps standardizing some upgrades would be beneficial (for instance, i swapped the spire upgrades so they're consistent with the evo chamber and ultralisk cavern: carapace upgrades are all J, and so are speed upgrades (pool and hydralisk den). Similarly, all attack upgrades except ranged attacks at the evo chamber are bound to O-the zergling attack, hydra attack range, flyer and melee attacks, etc. I think this only requires swapping the spire upgrade hotkeys and maybe the hydra den hotkeys in HoTS.

Anyway, keep up the great work! And Thanks

Tengo
pain is weakness leaving the body.
maLaK1
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany124 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-11 04:08:26
January 11 2013 04:07 GMT
#2259
On January 11 2013 12:00 Tengo_Hambre wrote:
I do have a question though: is using mouse 4/5 tournament legal usually?


every change you can make using the standard SC2 UI is allowed,

JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 11 2013 15:32 GMT
#2260
On January 11 2013 12:00 Tengo_Hambre wrote:
hey JaKaTaK,

Let me just say I think this is a great project, so much so that a dumped my old hotkey setup of 1.5 years almost immediately upon discovering TheCore.

I do have a question though: is using mouse 4/5 tournament legal usually?

Also, a suggestion (ZRM): Base camera being F10 is a bit unweildy for zergs who use that method for inject. I changed it to backspace and find it much easier. Also, perhaps standardizing some upgrades would be beneficial (for instance, i swapped the spire upgrades so they're consistent with the evo chamber and ultralisk cavern: carapace upgrades are all J, and so are speed upgrades (pool and hydralisk den). Similarly, all attack upgrades except ranged attacks at the evo chamber are bound to O-the zergling attack, hydra attack range, flyer and melee attacks, etc. I think this only requires swapping the spire upgrade hotkeys and maybe the hydra den hotkeys in HoTS.

Anyway, keep up the great work! And Thanks

Tengo


I didn't think of some of those, cool

However, attack and carapace upgrades should match, unless I made a mistake...
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
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