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On November 21 2012 23:27 DarK[A] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 09:49 PVequalsNRT wrote:
Rank 25-35 Master Terran (NA) reporting in. I did a little adjustment to the production hotkeys (Barracks/Factory/Starport) to match my playstyles, but I'm really digging the setup.
Additionally, since I don't really need all 10 control groups, I changed "O" to an ability/production key, which I think jives a lot more with my personal approach to the 'JIOP' homerow.
Cheers and thanks for the setup! Yeah - I play Z (at a low level mind you) but the most control groups I used to have for units was 3 (usually 2). Main army on 1, flying units on 3. If I used 2 it would be for the flank. Hatcheries on 4, queens on 5-8 (since I used the 55v*click* etc method). Not sure how this method of injecting will change all of that yet... was kind of disheartened once I tried the hotkey trainer and could barely remember any of them, even after repetition. I imagine I'll have to start a game and internalize the basics before trying to remember how to add to control group 9 or how to build ultra caverns (these low level games rarely get to tier 3, and if they ever do, I'm going gglords probably)
Just a note about whatever hotkey trainer you are using -- I don't think you'll ever need to know how to "add to control group 9". What you really need to know is how to add to your ling control group, or your roach/ling control group, or your muta control group, etc.
The hotkey trainer I have found most helpful is the hotkey trainer custom map. It only gives you practice with build commands and unit training commands, but I think those are the most important ones to learn in advance. Learning the keys for attack-move, stop, hold position, and setting/recalling cameras and control groups I think are best practiced in actual sc2 games.
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On November 22 2012 00:16 JDub wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 23:27 DarK[A] wrote:On November 21 2012 09:49 PVequalsNRT wrote:
Rank 25-35 Master Terran (NA) reporting in. I did a little adjustment to the production hotkeys (Barracks/Factory/Starport) to match my playstyles, but I'm really digging the setup.
Additionally, since I don't really need all 10 control groups, I changed "O" to an ability/production key, which I think jives a lot more with my personal approach to the 'JIOP' homerow.
Cheers and thanks for the setup! Yeah - I play Z (at a low level mind you) but the most control groups I used to have for units was 3 (usually 2). Main army on 1, flying units on 3. If I used 2 it would be for the flank. Hatcheries on 4, queens on 5-8 (since I used the 55v*click* etc method). Not sure how this method of injecting will change all of that yet... was kind of disheartened once I tried the hotkey trainer and could barely remember any of them, even after repetition. I imagine I'll have to start a game and internalize the basics before trying to remember how to add to control group 9 or how to build ultra caverns (these low level games rarely get to tier 3, and if they ever do, I'm going gglords probably) Just a note about whatever hotkey trainer you are using -- I don't think you'll ever need to know how to "add to control group 9". What you really need to know is how to add to your ling control group, or your roach/ling control group, or your muta control group, etc. The hotkey trainer I have found most helpful is the hotkey trainer custom map. It only gives you practice with build commands and unit training commands, but I think those are the most important ones to learn in advance. Learning the keys for attack-move, stop, hold position, and setting/recalling cameras and control groups I think are best practiced in actual sc2 games.
I was just testing it out quick using the stand alone program that was linked in the OP, but yeah I agree that I should probably try that custom map. I think I've used it before but with the standard layout - I'll have to grab it again and see what I can do with this one. And yeah as long as I know the key for attack move so I can stutter roaches or something, or control my mutas better... the rest will come with gameplay. I'm not going to worry about blocking my ramp with roaches or queens on hold pos until I can consistently macro using this new layout.
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Is there a way to get previous versions of TheCore?
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On November 23 2012 04:31 Scion wrote:
Is there a way to get previous versions of TheCore?
Not that I know of. I don't have the files. You might be able to find someone with your version that never updated. That's all I can think of right now.
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Ah, I still have 0.4 for Zerg and I prefer 0.4 to 0.5 in a way and wanted to play it as the other races.
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On November 23 2012 06:20 Scion wrote:
Ah, I still have 0.4 for Zerg and I prefer 0.4 to 0.5 in a way and wanted to play it as the other races.
All versions of TheCore allow you to offrace without changing layouts 
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Apologies if this has been asked before.
Why are there 7 ability hotkeys? I would think that for every unit, you could use the same keys for abilities (for example Key1 is snipe, Key2 is EMP, Key 3 is cloak, Key4 is decloak, Key5 is nuke - Key 1 is siege, Key 2 is unsiege - Key1 is stim, etc).
Are there any units with 7 abiities?
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larva has 9 in WoL and 11 in HotS
I believe a Starport has 10... but don't quote me on that.
Ability keys are used for buildings as well as units.
Also, its an honor to have a player of your caliber looking at TheCore. Do you have any ideas/insights from what you've seen so far?
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On November 23 2012 06:40 iEchoic wrote:
Why are there 7 ability hotkeys? I would think that for every unit, you could use the same keys for abilities (for example Key1 is snipe, Key2 is EMP, Key 3 is cloak, Key4 is decloak, Key5 is nuke - Key 1 is siege, Key 2 is unsiege - Key1 is stim, etc).
If that wasn't the case, there would be a lot more ability keys than just 7.
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I have an... observation I suppose.
I tried this out when I got my new keyboard, figuring I'd be missclicking stuff a bunch anyways with new key spacing. I had massive problems trying to use my pinky for multiple keys. You move the shift and control under your thumb, which admittedly I suppose lets you use your thumb when you wouldn't normally.
I don't know about other people but I CAN'T move my pinky without moving my ring finger unless I have something to anchor it on eg. shift or control.
Anyways I guess I'm mentioning this because I think it makes using any combination of abilities involving j and i rather difficult, and I seem to recall having serious issues with it.
Do you have any suggestions as to what I might do if I decided to try it again?
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Above mentioned buildings and also the Sentry's hallucinaton menu has 11 options, have they mentioned adding more in HotS? Also if for some reason you put Hold Fire and Weapons Free on seperate keys the Ghost would have 7.
Speaking of Ghosts, I have been having the time of my life playing the Rooftop Snipers game using.... dun dun dun TheCore!!!
90% is pretty straight forward. You probably want your Hold Fire, Cloaking etc keys all the same as WoL. To help muscle memory for EMP and Snipe I put all AoE attacks to the EMP key and all single target attacks to the Snipe key.
There are also various summons/calldowns and blinks.
VariousGhosts/RooftopSnipers=
Ghost2/IsGhost=
GhostHoldFire/Ghost2=
WeaponsFree/Ghost2=
CloakOnGhost/Ghost2=
CloakOff/Ghost2=
EMP/Ghost2=AoE
Snipe/Ghost2=SingleTarget
Blink2/Ghost2=
CalldownMULE2/Ghost2=Summons
CalldownWarPigs/Ghost2=
CalldownHammerSecurities/Ghost2=
PsionicSense/Ghost2=Control+Shift+Alt+Q
DisablePsionicSense/Ghost2=Control+Shift+Alt+Q
Spectre2/IsSpectre=
GhostHoldFire/Spectre2=
WeaponsFree/Spectre2=
CloakOnSpectre2/Spectre2=
CloakOff3=
UltrasonicPulse2/Spectre2=AoE
Obliterate2/Spectre2=SingleTarget
Spectre2/Spectre2=Summons
PsionicSense22/Spectre2=Can share key with below (toggles to sensor tower)
PsionicPerception/Spectre2=Can share key with above (toggles to detection)
CalldownWarPigs/Spectre2=
CalldownHammerSecurities/Spectre2=
Raider/IsRaynor=
GhostHoldFire/Raider=
WeaponsFree/Raider=
Grenade/Raider=AoE
RaynorSnipe2/Raider=SingleTarget
Dash=
CombatShielding/Raider=
PlacePsiInhibitor/Raider=Summons
CalldownWarPigs/Raider=
CalldownHammerSecurities/Raider=
Hysteria= *Phantom inherits this key too*
Swarm= *Phantom inherits this key too*
Phantom/IsNova=
GhostHoldFire/Phantom=
WeaponsFree/Phantom=
CloakOnPhantom/Phantom=Apostrophe
DeepCloak/Phantom=Apostrophe
DropDeepCloak=Control+8
CloakOffPhantom=8
PsionicFlare/Phantom=AoE
Snipe/Phantom=SingleTarget
BlinkStep/Phantom=
CalldownWarPigs/Phantom=
CalldownHammerSecurities/Phantom=
I've left the Phantom's cloak keys in just to make things easier to explain. Once cloaked the Phantom can then Deep Cloak so even detectors can't see her. In Deep Cloak you can, obviously, decloak and become visable as normal, but you can also drop back to regular cloaking to save energy.
DropDeepCloak and CloakOff can't share a key because CloakOff takes priority. Rather than use Control+Key you can just use a spare key, but I found myself running out of room. If you do use Control+key, be warned, you can never again set keys through the front menu. You are forever committed to TheCore+.
Someone mentioned earlier dropping a control group key to gain an extra ability key, and I thought that might be interesting for various other games, Nexus Wars, DotA clones etc. As Michael Lowell quite rightly describes DotA as “Warcraft III without the macromanagement, micromanagement, or a general need for motor skills" there isn't really the need for 10 control groups and layered cameras, freeing up keyboard real estate for abilities.
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McTeazy, there are no combinations which use ring and pinky. The layout is designed with this in mind. You will always go from one your middle/index fingers to one of your pinky/ring fingers then back. The only exception to this would be if you're trying to do two separate abilities with one control group of units but I can't think of any specific example where this would be required. Something like stiming marines while stutter stepping (requiring both j and i) but these are both homekeys and easy to press.
What specific combinations are you having trouble with?
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Just a few adjustments needed for Darlins Micro Trainer, they're all pretty straight forward. Although you should take the time to change around your command groups - I think someone asked about that earlier. A lot of the mini games auto assign the first 2 - 4 groups and you need to know which ones are which.
DarglinsMicroTrainer/Commands=
BuildCreepTumor/Queen2=
MorphMorphalisk/Queen2=
Transfusion/Queen2=
FungalGrowth/Infestor2=
InfestedTerrans/Infestor2=
NeuralParasite/Infestor2=
EnableBuildingAttack/baneling=
DisableBuildingAttack/baneling=
Explode/baneling=
Baneling/Zergling2=
EnableBuildingAttack/baneling2=
DisableBuildingAttack/baneling2=
Explode/baneling2=
Heal/Medivac2=
ForceField2/Sentry2=
GuardianShield/Sentry2=
Hallucination/Sentry2=
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Hi, I'm a diamond league zerg and I've very recently started the transition over to using TheCore from an amended WASD layout (I had Q and W as control groups with caps-lock used for backspace injecting), so recently in fact that I haven't actually played any games yet; just trying to find my feet by going through builds in Yabot and feeling generally like a recovering stroke victim. That said I had some queries for any other zergs using TheCore who will be more experienced than I am.
Firstly, I was kinda hoping to be able to continuously tap "hatch control group"/"larva select" as a way of keeping my inject timings on point (I know JEcho for one does this as you can just keep tabs on your larva and when you see more larva appear guess what, it's injecting time!).. however I feel like this might be problematic given that the "drone production" key is the same as the "select larva" key and it could be really easy to make unwanted drones. Even without wanting to use this tapping method it seems like accidental drone production could be an issue whenever selecting your larva so I was wondering if anyone else had found this or whether it just ceases to be an issue with time?
Secondly, I feel like there may be a problem with the way the inject method basically forces you to have shift depressed at all times when selecting your queens and injecting with them. I used to use backspacing with shift depressed in my old setup and actually later switched to a method where I omitted shift (and just pressed inject multiple times) such was the propensity for my queens to have a breakdown and go walkabout around the map. This usually occurs when you either accidentally select a hatchery to inject with no queen at it, or you select to inject a hatch with a queen by it that doesn't quite have enough energy while another queen in the control group does (this is likely to happen if you have a macro hatch eating up energy at one base). This is ameliorated in the backspacing method without using shift as any stray queens heading to far off hatcheries will almost immediately get that command cancelled as you cycle through and click on the hatch they're right next to... however with shift depressed this just gets added to the queue and they try to do both sequentially which can be a pain in the ass to sort out.
Now obviously TheCore has the advantage of not cycling through every single hatch you have (unlike backspacing) so the likelihood of accidentally trying to inject one without a queen is reduced, but I still think this could be an issue and wonder how experienced users have felt about/dealt with this. This is clearly a pretty core (no pun intended :D) feature of this layout due to how shift is used for queen/camera selection... so yeah, one way or another I guess I'll have to get used to it, so any tips from others are most welcome :D
Thirdly, just as a quick query for JaKaTaK; I was wondering how you decided on the keys to use for upgrades.. as they're not something that is pressed multiple times within a game so strict ergonomic optimisation probably wasn't as big a factor and they were always likely to end up on the homekeys anyway. How did you decide which upgrade to put on each homekey? Maybe some concession has been made to making them more easily memorable etc. If this is the case I haven't quite figured it out yet, but I could just be being slightly dense!
Finally, thanks very much to JaKaTaK for putting so much work into this! I have no doubt that, minor snags aside, switching to TheCore will be a great boost for my mechanics.... eventually :D
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On November 26 2012 22:32 Spaceboy wrote:
Firstly, I was kinda hoping to be able to continuously tap "hatch control group"/"larva select" as a way of keeping my inject timings on point (I know JEcho for one does this as you can just keep tabs on your larva and when you see more larva appear guess what, it's injecting time!).. however I feel like this might be problematic given that the "drone production" key is the same as the "select larva" key and it could be really easy to make unwanted drones. Even without wanting to use this tapping method it seems like accidental drone production could be an issue whenever selecting your larva so I was wondering if anyone else had found this or whether it just ceases to be an issue with time?
I'm merely a lowly silver, but in my experience this isn't a problem at all, and I spam hatch control group/larva select as much as anyone. Just try it out for a few games and you'll see, spamming P-O-P-O-P-O is actually pretty smooth and natural-feeling. I never accidentally make drones. Queens, for whatever reason though, I sometimes do accidentally begin making.
On November 26 2012 22:32 Spaceboy wrote:
Secondly, I feel like there may be a problem with the way the inject method basically forces you to have shift depressed at all times when selecting your queens and injecting with them. I used to use backspacing with shift depressed in my old setup and actually later switched to a method where I omitted shift (and just pressed inject multiple times) such was the propensity for my queens to have a breakdown and go walkabout around the map. This usually occurs when you either accidentally select a hatchery to inject with no queen at it, or you select to inject a hatch with a queen by it that doesn't quite have enough energy while another queen in the control group does (this is likely to happen if you have a macro hatch eating up energy at one base). This is ameliorated in the backspacing method without using shift as any stray queens heading to far off hatcheries will almost immediately get that command cancelled as you cycle through and click on the hatch they're right next to... however with shift depressed this just gets added to the queue and they try to do both sequentially which can be a pain in the ass to sort out.
I do on occasion have problems like that. What I've started trying to do to remedy that is use the stop command, then address the problem. Usually this is waiting an extra second or two to make sure my queens are all in sync and with enough energy.
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I don't know if it's been reported yet, but I noticed a problem in Heart of the Swarm. Nexuses (Nexii?) can now attack with using the mothership core. I tried to chrono my cybernetics core after holding off a zergling attack, and ended up shooting at it instead.
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@Spaceboy
Thanks for the detailed critique. Concerning your unanswered query, everything is based off of frequency in professional tournament games. Despite the fact that you'll only get 1 of each upgrade maximum per game, you will often times not get certain upgrades. The ones that are most frequently used are put on the fingers with the most potential for dexterity and independent motion. So pinky > middle > ring for abilities.
@FlyingBeer
THIS IS A HUGE PAIN IN THE ASSjklqtjwklqfj;djwall;t3920tj
that said, we are currently looking into solutions 
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On November 27 2012 10:55 JaKaTaK wrote:@FlyingBeer THIS IS A HUGE PAIN IN THE ASSjklqtjwklqfj;djwall;t3920tj that said, we are currently looking into solutions
Uh-oh. Using TheCore+ I set Build Worker and Attack both to J. Where there is a conflict on the PF, Build Worker takes priority and I assumed that would be the case on the Nexus in HotS. Is that not the case?
Or is the problem that Attack takes priority over Chronoboost, but Build Probe takes priority over Attack?
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On November 27 2012 14:01 SixtusTheFifth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 10:55 JaKaTaK wrote:@FlyingBeer THIS IS A HUGE PAIN IN THE ASSjklqtjwklqfj;djwall;t3920tj that said, we are currently looking into solutions Uh-oh. Using TheCore+ I set Build Worker and Attack both to J. Where there is a conflict on the PF, Build Worker takes priority and I assumed that would be the case on the Nexus in HotS. Is that not the case? Or is the problem that Attack takes priority over Chronoboost, but Build Probe takes priority over Attack?
The problem is what to do for the regular TheCore, not what to do with TheCore+.
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Yeah but does it work? I can't test HotS and I've been doing this on an assumption.
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EPT
