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On November 17 2012 07:18 havoc.the.chaos wrote:
is there any way to remap the key for queueing up commands (holding down shift in normal) because my present keyboard has a small shift key on the left side (using right hand on keyboard) what makes it kind of a mess to thumb press it because it is completely covered by the strg key. Using zlm right now queued burrow (shift+h) becomes somewhat of a gambling game because of spread thumb+pinky action.
Just switched from zlm 0.3 to the zlm0.5 and have to congratz you, becuase the switch wont be that intuitive but better for most part as i can see them right now
Cool man, glad you're digging the change for the most part.
Unfortunately shift and control click functions are not customizable in Sc2. If they were, we would have modified them. I really hope we can customize them someday.
Best bet in this case would be to get a different keyboard, but if you have a nice mechanical one, I understand if you don't consider this option, they're sooo expensive.
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not having a mechanical at home right now, just one for work to make my coworkers cry in pain for sound harrassment 
but i think i will take a look and see if i can find one that is nice for me for gaming. I just do not need all those fancy extra super macro function keys...
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Agreed havoc, i hate those extra buttons!
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Is there any reason I shouldn't switch the keys for stop and burrow? I find it hard to hit H sometimes in the heat of the moment.
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On November 18 2012 13:43 Xanbatou wrote:
Is there any reason I shouldn't switch the keys for stop and burrow? I find it hard to hit H sometimes in the heat of the moment.
Personally I find it easy to press H, but whatever works for you.
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why was add to control group changed from shift to control?
is shift not an easier key to press by far?
is add to control group not pressed 1000x more often than recall camera?
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On November 19 2012 03:57 ellaguru wrote:
why was add to control group changed from shift to control?
is shift not an easier key to press by far?
is add to control group not pressed 1000x more often than recall camera?
This will be a video of its own. The reasons for switch shift and control are due to combinations that actually make adding to control groups faster (i can add all my zealots to my melee CG by ctrl+click+4, otherwise i'd have to press ctrl+click and then shift+4.) Really the best option would be to use TheCore 0.5 the way we have it, but to switch the ctrl and shift functions on your keyboard (because you cannot customize what shift+click does in Sc2). This was a bit excessive and maybe illegal in tournaments so we did not go for this solution for the main release, but feel free to give it a try for yourself
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On November 17 2012 08:07 JaKaTaK wrote:
Unfortunately shift and control click functions are not customizable in Sc2. If they were, we would have modified them. I really hope we can customize them someday.
is there already a bug/feature report on blizzard?
Do you have a link?
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Not that I know of. How do you do that?
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first, tnx! this is great stuff (but hard to master, i lifted my cc instead of making a SCV at list 5 times lol)
is there anyway to make this work with the compain? at first its great, but after u get some upgrades and units its stuck with the standart hotkeys and i just cant change it...
tnx.
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Custom games will add a lot of complexity to TheCore. Getting the Blizzard mods working was a comparatively simple exercise. I starting adding in the SC1 campaign keys thinking that the hard work would be behind me.
A Brief Diversion
Since TheCore+ will require manual editing I think the file will need to be reformatted. Choosing a good key for new research/abilities means quickly finding the keys already taken. Also, changing any keys will mean finding them in the first place. To that end I re-arranged the file so it looks like this:
Protoss/Commands=
Townhall/Commands=
Probe/Nexus=I
TimeWarp/Nexus=J
Worker/Commands=
ProtossBuild/Probe=Apostrophe
Assimilator/Probe=I
CyberneticsCore/Probe=8
Forge/Probe=H
Gateway/Probe=K
Nexus/Probe=M
PhotonCannon/Probe=Apostrophe
Pylon/Probe=J
ProtossBuildAdvanced/Probe=Equals
DarkShrine/Probe=H
FleetBeacon/Probe=N
RoboticsBay/Probe=8
RoboticsFacility/Probe=J
Stargate/Probe=I
TemplarArchive/Probe=M
TwilightCouncil/Probe=K
YoMommashipSoFat/SheEntersTheGameInStages=
MothershipCore/Nexus=K
MothershipCoreWeapon/MothershipCore=I
MassRecall/MothershipCore=K
MothershipCoreEnergize/MothershipCore=8
MorphToMothership/MothershipCore=Comma
Mothership/Nexus=K
Vortex/Mothership=I
MassRecall/Mothership=K
BasicBuilding/Commands=
CyberneticsCore/Commands=
ProtossAirWeaponsLevel1/CyberneticsCore=I
ProtossAirArmorLevel1/CyberneticsCore=K
ResearchWarpGate/CyberneticsCore=J
ResearchHallucination/CyberneticsCore=M
Forge/Commands=
ProtossGroundWeaponsLevel1/Forge=J
ProtossGroundArmorLevel1/Forge=I
ProtossShieldsLevel1/Forge=K
etc
etc
etc
I could provide the whole thing but the keys are for RRM so it's probably quicker to make your own. I changed the file into a .CSV, sorted the columns in a spreadsheet, and changed it back to a .SC2Hotkeys file. It took about 10 minutes. The following instructions assume some knowledge of basic file manipulation and spreadsheets.
- Download/copy a new version of TheCore.
- Open in Notepad++ or a decent txt editor.
- Delete the [Settings] and [Hotkeys] sections, and the line [Commands] so you just have all the commands in an alphabetical list.
- Use Find and Replace: Find "/" and Replace with ",". Save the file with a .csv extension.
- Open it in a spreadsheet and you should have two columns which will already allow you to sort and arrange all the commands by the unit that makes them. You can enter p,z,t in the third column to also sort by race.
- Sort by column 3, then 2 then 1, and you will have all commands grouped by race, then grouped by the unit, then grouped alphabetically by command.
- Delete the third column and save as a CSV.
- Open in Notepad++, if a whole lot of " marks are everywhere then use find and replace to find the quote marks and replace with nothing.
- Replace all the "," with "/" and you should be back to your original file but with everything grouped. Except the original has the top sections that were first deleted so copy and paste these sorted commands into your current Core file, or another backup if you want to test it.
Have a test game to check that everything still works. That was the 10 minute part. The more formatting you want the longer it will take.
For further editing you can add blank lines, use tabs to format groups of commands and add in headings. Since SC2 accepts any line in the format "String1/String2=" I used that for headings. For all I know SC2 might accept HTML style comments but I never tested it and who knows what changes Blizzard might bring in if this starts to catch on. After a huge amount of work went into setting hybrid graphics settings by variables.txt Blizzard killed it with one patch so for this I just went with what will most likely work for the longest. Even down to having tabs as 4 spaces.
SC1 and BW Mods
It is a blessing and a curse that mods use the same IDs as WoL. It saves some work since most shared abilities come through fine. It creates a lot of work when you are at the mercy of modmakers with different ideas about how the internal IDs should be set up. One thing became apparent, they either don't know or don't care about the effects on custom hotkeys.
For TheCore+ to work with custom games we will need map makers to (a) open up the map or provide the ID on units and their abilities and (b) make different design decisions. Without the IDs, or with the IDs but having them clash, TheCore+ either won't work or will need seperate files for each mod.
Anyway, here are the Terran commands for the SC1/BW remake. The Zerg and Protoss will be a loooong time coming, assuming I do them at all. More on that later.
These are the commands for the extra addons for SC1 buildings and the commands for each addon.
OrbitalCommand/CommandCenterFlying=
Scan/BarracksTechLab=
BuildNuclearSilo/CommandCenter=
BuildNuclearSilo/CommandCenterFlying=
NukeArm/BarracksReactor=
BuildMachineShop/Factory=
BuildMachineShop/FactoryFlying=
ResearchIonThrusters/FactoryTechReactor=
ResearchSpiderMinesSC1/FactoryTechReactor=
CharonBoosters/FactoryTechReactor=
BuildControlTower/Starport=
BuildControlTower/StarportFlying=
WraithCloak/StarportReactor=
ResearchWraithEnergyUpgrade/StarportReactor=
These are the commands on the Academy which uses the ID of the Ghost Academy. Since the Ghost Academy is now on the Basic Build menu it will probably conflict with something. I gave mine an alternate Control+key which is used in the event of a conflict, shown here for RRM.
GhostAcademy/SCV=M,Control+M
ResearchMedivacEnergyUpgrade/GhostAcademy=
ResearchOpticalFlare/GhostAcademy=
ResearchRestoration/GhostAcademy=
Stimpack/GhostAcademy=
U238Shells/GhostAcademy=
The above means in WoL Command Centers and Ghost Academys remain on "M" on their respective menus, in the SC1 remake I have to use Control+M for the Academy.
These are the keys to build the Science Facility, its two add-ons and all upgrades between them.
BuildScienceFacility/SCV=
ResearchIrradiate/ScienceFacility=
ResearchEMPShockwave/ScienceFacility=
ResearchScienceVesselEnergyUpgrade/ScienceFacility=
BuildCovertOps/ScienceFacility=
BuildCovertOps/ScienceFacilityFlying=
ResearchLockdown/BarracksTechReactor=
ResearchGhostEnergyUpgrade/BarracksTechReactor=
ResearchOcularImplants/BarracksTechReactor=
ResearchPersonalCloaking/BarracksTechReactor=
BuildPhysicsLab/ScienceFacility=
BuildPhysicsLab/ScienceFacilityFlying=
ResearchBattlecruiserEnergyUpgrade/StarportTechLab=
ResearchBattlecruiserSpecializations/StarportTechLab=
Extra keys for the Medic and Science Vessel. And the only unit missing a build button is the Valkyrie. With the Viking removed you could move it to that key, but if by chance a combined mod uses both there will be a conflict.
BuildValkyrie/Starport=
OpticalFlare/Medic=
UseRestoration/Medic=
DefensiveMatrix/ScienceVessel=
EMP/ScienceVessel=
This next section made any work with the Blizzard mods seem easy. SC1 adds Lockdown and removes Snipe. But you can't just put Lockdown on your Snipe key because some hero units have both. Setting the Holdfire key for the Heroes was an absolute pain. In the end I re-entered every combination I could think of and I'm still not sure which one worked.
Tosh is Duran, Tosh2 is Infested Duran and Spectre is Stukov; then there's Raynor on his Vulture and BC.
UseLockdown/Ghost=
HoldFire=
WeaponsFree=
GhostHoldFire=
GhostWeaponsFree=
SpectreHoldFire=
SpectreWeaponsFree=
SpectreWeaponsFree/Tosh=
SpectreWeaponsFree/Tosh2=
NovaSnipe/Tosh=
UseLockdown/Tosh=
UseLockdown/Tosh2=
Consume32/Tosh2=
UseLockdown/Spectre=
SpiderMine/JimRaynor=
SpiderMineReplenish/JimRaynor=
YamatoGun/Hyperion=
The Too Hard Basket
The Protoss and Zerg keys use different mods for different episodes and had different designers with different ideas about using IDs.
In SC1 the Infestation Pit key will build a Queen's Nest and a new key can be set for the Defiler Mound.
In BW the Roach Warren key builds the Queen's Nest and the Infestation Pit key builds the Defiler Mound.
This example is one of many.
To have consistant keys to build muscle memory we would need seperate files for each custom game. By the time I found all the ID's, created a hotkey file and tested every unit in both games it would be close to the end of the year. The SC1/BW guys are thinking of merging the mods after they finish the series, and HotS may well bring in its own IDs for BW units and custom makers might change to them anyway.
The pity of it is that, imo, TheCore is actually superior to grid for building muscle memory. Even in Left2Die Blizzard, quite unnecessarily, moved buttons around on the card, and HotS moves them even more. But with custom games mostly not giving access to find the IDs, or the ones that do being all over the place, I think we will have to use TheCore and something else for customs.
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did it and its working, tnx man! they should add it to the core main file
can i ask u how to arrange the columns alphabeticlly?
im stuck on 6. i cut and paste so that column B will be first, and column A is second. what now? (im using exel 2010)
tnx!
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You shouldn't have to cut and paste columns.
Leave the first two columns as they are, so abilities are in A and the units are in B.
Down column C enter "P", "T", "Z" according to the unit. There were a few I didn't know at first but at the end you can figure out what's missing.
Going from memory of Excel here (I use OpenOffice) but should be close enough:
- There should be "Data" on the ribbon and a "sort" button.
- In the popup you choose how many levels you want, so have three:
- Level 1: Sort by column C (A to Z descending)
- Level 2: Sort by column B (A to Z descending)
- Level 3: Sort by column A (A to Z descending)
This should group everything in order Protoss, Terran Zerg ; then all the units should be together, and all the abilities of each unit arranged alphabetically in column A.
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I'm definitely going to give this a shot, as I'm a big fan of efficiency. I also have the benefit of not being set in the ways of thousands of games as default layout. Definitely will feel pretty familiar as I learned the keys the first time, only this time it should be easier.
Do you have cutoffs on hand size for each, or is it more of a try-it-and-see-how-it-feels thing?
Will try when I get the time though and report back on results.
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On November 21 2012 04:25 DarK[A] wrote:
I'm definitely going to give this a shot, as I'm a big fan of efficiency. I also have the benefit of not being set in the ways of thousands of games as default layout. Definitely will feel pretty familiar as I learned the keys the first time, only this time it should be easier.
Do you have cutoffs on hand size for each, or is it more of a try-it-and-see-how-it-feels thing?
Will try when I get the time though and report back on results.
Cool man, sounds excellent. As far as layout size goes. Its just like clothes, try em out and see how they fit for you, then pick the one you like best
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On November 21 2012 05:51 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 04:25 DarK[A] wrote:
I'm definitely going to give this a shot, as I'm a big fan of efficiency. I also have the benefit of not being set in the ways of thousands of games as default layout. Definitely will feel pretty familiar as I learned the keys the first time, only this time it should be easier.
Do you have cutoffs on hand size for each, or is it more of a try-it-and-see-how-it-feels thing?
Will try when I get the time though and report back on results. Cool man, sounds excellent. As far as layout size goes. Its just like clothes, try em out and see how they fit for you, then pick the one you like best
Have you gotten some PMs from higher level players? Any players I'd know of try this out yet?
In your opinion, are most of the major kinks worked out by now through user feedback, or do you anticipate more major changes being needed?
EDIT: Damn, this is hard. I only get 1 point in the hotkey trainer for it. I think I'm still breaking down instinctively reaching in a certain direction for some things, which makes me get things wrong.
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The biggest name player who uses this layout is Infinity Seven's Sanddbox as of right now.
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Rank 25-35 Master Terran (NA) reporting in. I did a little adjustment to the production hotkeys (Barracks/Factory/Starport) to match my playstyles, but I'm really digging the setup.
Additionally, since I don't really need all 10 control groups, I changed "O" to an ability/production key, which I think jives a lot more with my personal approach to the 'JIOP' homerow.
Cheers and thanks for the setup!
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On November 21 2012 09:49 PVequalsNRT wrote:
Rank 25-35 Master Terran (NA) reporting in. I did a little adjustment to the production hotkeys (Barracks/Factory/Starport) to match my playstyles, but I'm really digging the setup.
Additionally, since I don't really need all 10 control groups, I changed "O" to an ability/production key, which I think jives a lot more with my personal approach to the 'JIOP' homerow.
Cheers and thanks for the setup!
Yeah - I play Z (at a low level mind you) but the most control groups I used to have for units was 3 (usually 2). Main army on 1, flying units on 3. If I used 2 it would be for the flank. Hatcheries on 4, queens on 5-8 (since I used the 55v*click* etc method).
Not sure how this method of injecting will change all of that yet... was kind of disheartened once I tried the hotkey trainer and could barely remember any of them, even after repetition. I imagine I'll have to start a game and internalize the basics before trying to remember how to add to control group 9 or how to build ultra caverns (these low level games rarely get to tier 3, and if they ever do, I'm going gglords probably)
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EPT
