TheJaKaTaK

On June 01 2012 03:52 Demicore wrote:
You sir are a true hero.

*tears*
*salute*

On June 01 2012 03:41 JaKaTaK wrote:
After worker rushing countless lower level bronze players for a week, (but not informing them of what to do beforehand) I was very stabilized at a 50% win ratio. After some simple math with the help of Sc2 Ranks I found out that 19% of Sc2 players could not properly execute an Attack Move command! This was a clear indicator for me that a space for people to go to start learning Starcraft 2 was needed.

I'll be helping all of the new and struggling lower level players to improve as quickly as possible EVERY DAY at 02:00 CEST (+02:00).

On June 01 2012 05:33 ulfryc wrote:
Really like your commitment to esports.


What is your background? Why do you think you can help other people? Do you play in Masters or what legitimates do you have?

On June 01 2012 06:05 JaKaTaK wrote:


I have studied education in college, and have taught music individually for 10 years. When teaching the very basics to new players, it is more beneficial to understand educational psychology and have the ability to get to the core of the matter rather than to understand the most complex aspects of a subject. Probably the most important qualification I have is that I have spent more time thinking about this particular aspect of Sc2 whereas more skilled and experienced players spend more or most of their time thinking about strategy, which is nearly useless to someone just starting out.

Unfortunately I can't yet prove that my method of teaching works because I have just started. But I believe it will work and have seen it work on a small scale. When people have been using my method for a longer amount of time it will be possible to say: "here's a guy who was bronze for 2 years of playing starcraft, once he started focusing on his mechanics and macro he rose to Diamond within 3 months." And other things like that. I believe that this method will show bigger results than it already has (gotten players from bronze to silver in 2 weeks) I am excited to show how well this method works.

Finally, no one has taken it upon themselves to do what I am doing, and that is a big part of why I am doing it. It would be silly to start a show that does high level analysis of pro-games with casting of tournaments and one day a week dedicated for newbies. Day9 already does that. This show chronologically orders lessons so that the things to learn with the biggest payoffs are first, and those with the smaller payoffs are last, or left to others. People give advice like, "work on your macro" or "you need better mechanics" but to the new or struggling player, these words mean nothing. If i can tell someone that if you build only marines, scvs, barracks, supply depots, and command centers, keep your money low, attack move, and build supply depos in advance, you can take games off of platinum players on NA. (which can be done) It is a much more helpful suggestion.

Awesome question. I hope I answered it completely.

On June 01 2012 06:11 Alabasern wrote:
Make sure they train their eyes (side to side, up and down, corner to corner, fast and accurate!) and know how to relieve eyestrain.

On June 01 2012 07:18 Kmatt wrote:
Thinking on it, I did something like this with a friend I convinced to play. I had him do a 3 gate expand until he could keep his buildings moving perfectly. After that we just practiced macro for a while and he was Silver within a week. I have faith this program can work. I do, however, question the scale. There are obviously a metric ton of bottom league players, so reaching out to even just 10% is going to take a long time.

On June 01 2012 07:46 YouthSC wrote:
Hey m8, awesome initiative, and i'm speechless at that you quit your job for e-sports.

I'm a high-master player and coach, if you ever need someone to play or anything else you need just drop me a PM and I'll be glad!

Good luck with this!

On June 01 2012 08:01 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:


epic name! should use this name for special events! :D

On June 01 2012 08:04 Kaitokid wrote:
you wont be able to reach the lowest bronze players simply because they don't even know community sites such as TL exist. thats the reason they are stuck in bronze, they are just very casual players who play a few games per week and don't care/know about the huge community and following of SC2

On June 02 2012 01:17 dissent_sc2 wrote:
Hi Jakatak,

I found your stream last week and even played a 4v4 with you and a couple of other viewers, that was huge fun. Over the last few days I have gone very heavy into level 1, playing about 50 or so matches on the ladder. I'd like to share my observations if you are interested. Before I do that, I must say there is a lot of curiosity/bewilderment/bemusement at what I am doing, are you okay if I direct people to you twitch account for more info?

Absofuckinglutely. Please spread the word, its hard to get the word out especially to the lower level players because often times they are stuck in bronze because they don't know about the sc2 scene or resources to help them improve. Give em all the info, and if you have the time and are inclined to, offer to help them out! Keep on paying that sc2 knowledge forward :D

Please do share your observations! What ideas do you have? What things have you been noticing?

On June 03 2012 06:46 dissent_sc2 wrote:


I thought it would be ok, just wanted to give a courtesy check first. I have started passing along info, there is definitely some interest after people see what is going on. I have started to say at the start of game what I will be doing, and after, if I don't get bm'd (usually after a win) I msg the link. I have had a few thank yous so you may see some of them show up. Still putting together my observations and will post soon.

Thanks!

On June 03 2012 07:56 reikai wrote:
GL sir! if you need any help (and are on the NA server to boot) please contact me!

reikai.480 :D i really like this effort. I think moving the game into the casuals' hands is the only way to push it into the spotlight.

again, good luck

On June 03 2012 08:30 atuor wrote:
I'd like to see an episode where you setup a couple computers and pull people out of the crowd of a mall to compete against each other. Showing them the basics just prior to the match.

On June 05 2012 00:46 Zero RDS wrote:
Jak buddy! It's me Zero from Blitz Gaming! I hope this turns out well for you and I wish you the best of luck! Should stop by our chat channel more ofter.

On June 05 2012 02:13 dissent_sc2 wrote:
Thought I'd share this item to spark a little discussion. To paraphrase the article, at least some pros start out with cheesy one-base all-innish play with a relatively small number of units and a strong emphasis on micro. It seems the idea is to learn very deeply the individual unit abilities and how the interact and then later scale up with macro play.

That is just about the polar opposite of the approach you are taking where macro play and basic mechanics are emphasized and micro would come in later. There is probably not a best approach here, my own play to date has been a muddled mess of half formed ideas about macro and micro with no clear ideas on what I should do to get better so I am not sure which direction would be better for me. That said, I think I favor the approach you are taking with a graduated series of well-defined macro oriented steps and working in micro when these fundamentals are well established.

On June 05 2012 02:34 Blackfish wrote:

As I have learned the game the hard way alone up from bronze I can tell you that maybe macro will help you alot more ( my macro is still shit and ever will be as i don´t have any kind of good mechanics). I did all this little micro stuff, strategic stuff... everything. Because I wanted to have fun. Baneling busting was fun, dropping in 3 locations at once was fun. Building 3 bases 60 probes and 200 supply of stuff just to A move was not fun.
It´s all about what you want. Do you want masters league with good macro and such beeing a "good" player. Or do you want to be a "mediocre" one, but have fun trying everything out... Sure you can achieve both. I just didn´t want to go the hard way with macro and mechanics first/ micro and strategie after...

On June 05 2012 03:04 MicroTastiC wrote:
You had made a terrible mistake in your career by giving up everything. Making this decision is similar to girls who believe they are an exception to join the Hollywood club, but end up in misery and dissapointment.

Also, your channel is empty. Shows how much the community actually cares about you. People just post here with garbage post to increase their count, as well as their ego. IE: comments like "Nice!", "Nice, keep it up!". But hey, if anything I'd blame how the forum is handled by the Powers that Be.

On June 05 2012 02:59 dissent_sc2 wrote:


I get what you are saying here. I have often fallen in to the passive, sit back and get units then a-move approach. You are right, this is a boring way to play. To clarify, though, it would mis-represent Jakatak's approach to say that that is what he is advocating. I have been working his level one and it is best played with an active approach. Since you have only basic units to work with, you have to put the pressure on and keep it on to have a chance. Also, it appears that as we add units with abilities, those abilities will be expected to be used. So I don't think that this macro approach precludes the active, fun approach you want to play. Macro is the backbone that will support all of that activity (or so I surmise).

On June 05 2012 03:16 JaKaTaK wrote:


That is very much correct. As my name might indicate, I advocate very aggressive play, especially when learning the game, that way you get to learn how the units "feel" and where the holes and weaknesses of an opponent are. I do not advocate learning the game via turtling. In fact, I ban use of any static defensive structures in my method to further force aggressive play and the "feeling out" of your opponent. Obviously later in development static defensive structures are very important and knowing when to attack and when to retreat is also very important, but when starting off, being aggressive and active is the way to go IMO.

This article by artosis is very interesting. I would say that my method allows for this as well (for instance, on terran level 1 you can do anything from proxy 2 rax bunker rush, to a triple expand before barracks. The only constraints are the buildings and units you are allowed to build, the idea is to explore as many different things you can do within those constraints as possible.

On June 05 2012 04:01 Blackfish wrote:


Okay get it now. Bad reading is bad^^ Overall I think it´s a great idea was just having problems with telling bad people that they should go no rush 15, but since you don´t do that everything is okay, totally my fault. Whats also great is that someone actually cares about lower league people. I think there is much potential for the game, since I know many friends who got a bad grasp of it and quit after 15-20 matches just cause its "to hard" ( which is totally understandable for everyone with no RTS background/or no gaming background at all). And then there are others. Who really want it, but don´t get it and then are stuck in bronze. If we can´t help those people out, the playing community is getting so much smaller. I mean right now, I think we have more "I only watch the game", then " I´m kinda good at playing it" people. Which is getting more and more of a problem. So many have quit due to varius reasons and it will get harder and harder to start playing SC2 just cause of the increasing skill level. When I started out in beta everyone was really bad and we all learned together. When you start out now gold silver and even bronze league got alot harder and many people are just kinda slow but know what to do to a certain extent.
I personally tried helping out alot of people while smurfing in bronze but it´s often so hard to tell them who thinks work out, so I can say it´s a hell of a ride you accepted to take their. Big props man.
Although in the end I don´t think it will work out. Starcraft 2 will lose it´s player base and will either be a total spectator sport for masses or a little niche with some guys playing some guys watching. It´s just to hard to start right now and losing is to antifun. And if something doesnt grow, it will decrease over time

On June 06 2012 03:48 dissent_sc2 wrote:
Here are my notes from playing level 1 pretty heavily over several days (nothing very profound here):

I started as a mid to high gold player:

• played a lot of games partly to see where level 1 protoss would end up on the ladder
  
• dropped to silver after a ton of early losses with a few wins against gold players
  
• started out with one base play only, lost a few after mining out the main, I like the expand version of level 1
  
• currently in high silver and looks like that is where I would stay so I feel comfortable saying a level 1 toss is at least a high silver player
  
• here are my records against each race:
  
  • vs. protoss: 14-4
    
  • vs. zerg: 14-10
    
  • vs. terran: 8-34
    

I really enjoyed going in depth in level 1:

• there is a simple pleasure in making lots of units and sending them out in ever growing waves
  
• I felt more relaxed playing, trying to get a good SQ number takes the pressure off winning and worrying about my performance
  
• I started a hotkey change a few days before, it looks like your levels will be a good way to transition since it starts with a few keys and adds more as you go
  
• I like the emphasis on putting units into action, I see it helping me get over the passive play syndrome
  

I feel like spending a little extra time on this level was a good thing. The relative simplicity of this level removed a lot of the mental clutter, so that while I was not thinking at all about build orders during a game, I feel like I got a better sense of what build orders are all about. By playing a lot of games and changing things up, I could feel the effect of waiting to do something I could have done earlier like starting a pylon to avoid a supply block or waiting to get that next gateway until after the expansion started. Also, it is really cool and a bit mysterious to see my 100th mineral collected at the exact moment my first GW completes so the first zealot can get started immediately.

The reaction from opponents seeing this encountering has been all over the map. Some bewilderment and amusement and pretty good amount of bm. Getting over-run by wave after wave of slow zealots seems to unleash the rage. Several times I have been told to "learn the game" (I like that one) and one time was threatened to be turned into to Blizz cause they hate cheaters like me who are ruining it for others. Lately, I have been trying to deflect some of this by announcing at the start that I will be doing a macro learning build that will look a little weird. I am getting more practice trying to counter the bm with good manner.

I will add that the quality of play in silver seems higher than when I was first there. A lot of the losses were very nice reactions by the opponent, zerg and toss mainly since terran has it easy against this.

I will be moving on to level 2 as soon as I know what that is. There was some discussion of warp gate vs. zealot legs on the twitch channel. I am thinking why not do both. You need the Cyber Core to get the Twilight Council and its only a little extra gas to do both. I will play around with this and also check in with what you are thinking.

Finally, a big thanks for getting this thing started, its looking great and I like where it is headed.

On June 01 2012 06:05 JaKaTaK wrote:


I have studied education in college, and have taught music individually for 10 years.

On June 21 2012 01:30 wc4482 wrote:
What if you called your improvement method, "The Macro Ladder"? Each level could be a different rung of the ladder. Helps the imagery of starting from the ground up and progressing towards a goal.

On June 21 2012 05:16 JaKaTaK wrote:


I definitely like the direction you're going with this one, but I'm not feeling it just yet. The Macro Ladder is too long for me I think. Feels clunky if you know what I mean.

On June 01 2012 03:41 JaKaTaK wrote:Macro>Strategy>Micro
Many players were trying to execute MC, Nestea, MVP strategies they saw on the GSL or various other strategies without having the ability to keep the money low, constantly build workers, inject, or keep their idle larva count down. Another thing I noticed is stutter step micro. Many struggling players will micro their heart out in an engagement and end up with 2-5k resources in the bank! Talking about Strategy or micro in Sc2 before you can do the very basic things (or even know what the very basic things in Sc2 are) is like talking about strategy or trick moves in soccer when you can't accurately pass shoot or even have the endurance to run for a 30 minute game.

On July 30 2012 23:11 Czarnodziej wrote:
As a practices of TheJaKaTaK method, I highly discourage practising these on ladder BEFORE practising it against AI.
Why is that?
1) Its way easier to focus on the mistakes when the opponent is not messing with you
2) Its way easier when you have the muscle memory to properly execute it, which my previous point allow to do (ladder slows down this process)
3) The fun in killing your opponent with basic units is tremendously surpassed by frustration when you get kited/owned by cloaked (which is prevalent in lower leagues) units and lose again and again on first levels
4) Let's face it, losing is never fun and foremost - losing a (highly competitive) game never will be fun. Simple.

On August 04 2012 01:44 Czarnodziej wrote:
What is the reason in having Sentries in different level than Stalkers?

On August 20 2012 01:26 JaKaTaK wrote:
There are some higher level players that hang out, but more often than not, they don't want to diverge from strategy in order to perfect mechanics. Time will tell which is the most effective approach.

On September 03 2012 01:45 JaKaTaK wrote:
I understand that what I am doing is a bit weird, but gimme a sec.

The best violinist in the world is not necessarily the best violin teacher. Conversely, the best violin teacher in the world is not the best violinist. This is the same reason that Sc2 coaches for teams do not have to be at the top of their game mechanically. But they do have to understand how to manage their players, and understand the game in its entirety, mechanics and strategy, as well as a host of other things I probably don't know about.

There are a few reasons why I switched to my non-dominant hand for mousing. Firstly, I injured my hand by having the mouse sensitivity set too high. Secondly, the biggest issue with very skilled people teaching newcomers to that skill, is that they don't understand the difficulties their student is going through. Maybe because they've never had them, maybe its because its been so long that they don't really remember what it feels like, and therefore have a difficult time helping their student through the struggle.

It also does not take the best violinist in the world, or even a professional violinist to teach someone with less understanding of the instrument than them how to play well. I understand that I have to be a master or grandmaster for some people to take me seriously, but 80% of people who play starcraft are in the platinum and below leagues. That's a shit ton of people that for the most part get neglected and told vague and unhelpful things like "just macro more" and "get better mechanics" or "only practice one strat" etc etc Day9 has newbie tuesdays and is a great entertainer/caster/teacher, but a lot of players aren't at the place in their play where they can truely benefit from his show. I believe that this community needs someone dedicated to helping out that 80% of people who play starcraft 2. I believe that the person to that is me.

In addition to helping players improve, I create, and help create tool that all players of starcraft II can use. Again, most of the things I do some people will write off as "dumb" or "a waste of time", and with them I respectfully disagree. If I would suggest one of them for you to look at, it would be TheCore.

TheCore is a custom hotkey layout for Sc2 that uses data from over 2000 professional game replays to match the most frequently executed commands with the fastest keys to press. Most of what I do is unorthodox, so if you don't approach it with an open mind, it will look "dumb" and "a waste of time"

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know you are very busy, but I had to explain myself fully to respond to your post.

On September 03 2012 01:53 uberism wrote:
The best violin teacher is not the best violinist, but usually damn good.
Same thing for most coaches, they were at least a professional in their field with a good ability to teach. Look at all the pro sports coaches, those guys knew how to play the game in their prime.

People are platinum and below because they play the game for fun and don't care about getting before. If you were actively trying to get better, there is no way you are not at least diamond.

On September 03 2012 04:50 Mesha wrote:
I want to say something because i think i have been lurking the development from the start, so i know a little about the project and what is all about. I gave respect to Jakatak and choose from the start not to put the project down. I didn't understand it at all, but that wasn't the reason to talk trash. I liked the idea about the 2000 pro replays as the development base, but that's about it. Everything else, although understandable and well structured has absolutely nothing with the brutal reality of starcraft. Yea, i watched a few of the videos of leveling. That should be avoided, not practiced. Sorry...

But one issue, a big issue is really hard not to see. Almost all users including the Jak are below average sc2 players. That doesn't help to advertise the core at all. And it never will, that's a fact. Hotkey just doesn't matter that much in sc2, sure it can be convinient but there is a fine point, and this setup has crossed it.

Why i doubted the core from the start is very simple. IMO the mechanics of starcraft is something that you develop by repetitive practice. If you put the time in, you will develop mechanics, no disscusion. That means if your main army is on the left part of keyboard and harass units on right, shift in the other room (lol) that doesn't mean shit - just practice like you don't know that you can put them next to each other and you will get used to it and never look back.
Mechanics are not the bottle neck of starcraft - it's the brain. And brain is something that is harder to train because of million different reasons. Understanding of the game is what makes you go higher - every idiot can develop mechanics and that is something you need 5 minutes from a good player to explain to anyone how to practice mechanics.

The core is cool project, props for helping helpless maggots noobs ^_^, but now, after some time it's starting to look like one of the million fail projects every day. That doesn't mean people should start trying to push their ideas. I hope a lot of people use it in the future, just because you invested so much passion and thought into it but IMHO this has alost zero percent with CORE of the starcraft universe.

edit: just if someone was wondering - i have shit mechanics, casual player, aggresive style-all inish, adore sc2 scene, and i am a fucking 1300 master player. I only have cameras changed from ctrl+shift+f2 changed to shift+f2 etc...

On September 03 2012 01:45 JaKaTaK wrote:
I understand that what I am doing is a bit weird, but gimme a sec.

The best violinist in the world is not necessarily the best violin teacher. Conversely, the best violin teacher in the world is not the best violinist. This is the same reason that Sc2 coaches for teams do not have to be at the top of their game mechanically. But they do have to understand how to manage their players, and understand the game in its entirety, mechanics and strategy, as well as a host of other things I probably don't know about.

There are a few reasons why I switched to my non-dominant hand for mousing. Firstly, I injured my hand by having the mouse sensitivity set too high. Secondly, the biggest issue with very skilled people teaching newcomers to that skill, is that they don't understand the difficulties their student is going through. Maybe because they've never had them, maybe its because its been so long that they don't really remember what it feels like, and therefore have a difficult time helping their student through the struggle.

It also does not take the best violinist in the world, or even a professional violinist to teach someone with less understanding of the instrument than them how to play well. I understand that I have to be a master or grandmaster for some people to take me seriously, but 80% of people who play starcraft are in the platinum and below leagues. That's a shit ton of people that for the most part get neglected and told vague and unhelpful things like "just macro more" and "get better mechanics" or "only practice one strat" etc etc Day9 has newbie tuesdays and is a great entertainer/caster/teacher, but a lot of players aren't at the place in their play where they can truely benefit from his show. I believe that this community needs someone dedicated to helping out that 80% of people who play starcraft 2. I believe that the person to that is me.

In addition to helping players improve, I create, and help create tool that all players of starcraft II can use. Again, most of the things I do some people will write off as "dumb" or "a waste of time", and with them I respectfully disagree. If I would suggest one of them for you to look at, it would be TheCore.

TheCore is a custom hotkey layout for Sc2 that uses data from over 2000 professional game replays to match the most frequently executed commands with the fastest keys to press. Most of what I do is unorthodox, so if you don't approach it with an open mind, it will look "dumb" and "a waste of time"

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know you are very busy, but I had to explain myself fully to respond to your post.

On September 03 2012 10:24 Kronen wrote:
Hi guys, had to step in here.

I'm a noob. I've been playing SC2 for a couple of months and it's my first RTS. Over that time I've worked my way up to diamond from tin. I love it, I love the frenetic challenge. It's the most engaging computer gaming experience I've ever had.

SC2 for the newcomer feels very very opaque. I started sc2 with a couple months worth Day9 dailies knowledge at my disposal, I followed all the streams, I had favorite players, I knew build orders... still progress was very slow in coming because no one takes the time to create ways to work on mechanics exclusively.

Enter Filter and Jakatak. Filter is great and I love his stuff, but he's very hands off by comparison and very inconsistent in putting content out. His battle with depression has further complicated his pursuits and I wish him all the best.

I don't use the Core, so I'm not commenting on that. People use whatever hotkeys work for them.

The Jakatak level method works and is fun. It's a no-nonsense construct that forces noobs like me to spend your goddamn money. That's it. What could be wrong with that? It's mine as much as you can and spend as fast as you can. It promotes good mechanics of focusing on nailing production cycles, not queueing and spending macro mechanic energy. I love to use the Jakatak method as a way to cool down after a long day at work, but still work on mechanics. It keeps me active in SC2 when exhaustion and mental fatigue would otherwise restrict me from playing.

Every one of the detractors in this thread have voiced wary suspicions of "OMG YOU ONLY HAVE 3 GOLD ACCOUNTS!! HOW DARE YOU POST IN TL!" Guys guys... please. He was a masters player before an injury that forces him to play with his hands inverted. That's right... he's a gold player playing with the keyboard and mouse in the opposite hand.

I take personal offense to this because it's not only ignorant, it's unfair to someone giving this pursuit his complete dedication. Jakatak approaches his stream and his efforts with incredible energy and optimism. If you've ever popped into his live stream, yea the quality of the games will be "meh.." at best if you're anywhere close to diamond, but it's fun and low stress. He handles trolls with aplomb and creates a fun, engaging community that is dedicated to just practicing and getting better. His Bnet chat channel is the only one I actually enjoy reading.

This guy is a prime example of what SC2 needs. Infectious optimism and energy and a tireless dedication to the people who use his product. For fellow noobs, check his stuff out and get involved. It's fun and removes unneeded layers of stress from this complex pursuit.


TLDR; This guy is a good personality and has good content. Actually read/watch before you flame please.


p.s. he's live now... like usual

On September 03 2012 10:27 Glurkenspurk wrote:


Personality doesn't mean anything. You can be the nicest guy in the world but if you're wrong, you're wrong. No matter how you look at it he's a gold player. His builds are bad and he has no idea what he's talking about. His entire teaching method is based off of silly concepts.


Glurkenspurk.829 Add me. I'll teach you far more efficiently.

On September 03 2012 09:08 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:


A 1300 point master?!?!?! Dude, you've now earned your PHD in Starcraft. Congratulations.

On September 02 2012 14:07 JaKaTaK wrote:
Respectfully, I think you are wrong. Made it from bronze to gold with 3 accounts in the course of 1 season, while basically starting from scratch with a completely new hotkey layout and mousing with my non-dominant hand, on purpose, to understand what it feels like to be uncoordinated and using my tools. The highest tech unit I've made so far is a roach/stalker/tank for each race respectively and I've not spent any time looking at or learning builds, or strategies. the show has been steadily growing in popularity and we've got a pretty sweet community going on. I accept the challenge to prove you wrong, but for now, I can only tell you what I think.

On September 04 2012 09:15 Deezl wrote:


This is the whole point here. I spent a few days coaching some bronze/silver players as a Diamond Toss, and it's really hard to get them to focus on setting up their macro and production. They are always asking metagame questions like "what do I do when I scout 2 gas Terran?"

In bronze, the answer is make a shitload of dudes and go attack them. In silver, it's to make a shitload of dudes, hotkey your production correctly, and go attack them while producing. In gold, it's to expand, make a shitload of dudes, hotkey your production correctly, get some detection, and go attack them while producing.

Start adding bases and late-game strategy for Platinum.

Worry about composition and timings when you hit Diamond -- you can't practice that in lower leagues.

This method provides a scaffolding on which bronze players can build. I'm not sure why people are criticizing it. Thumbs up to this guy for his positive attitude.

On September 04 2012 09:36 Deezl wrote:
His system is to master making tier 1 units en masse? It's not that serious of a system. The idea is to drive home the idea that if you're making units and probes and spending money, you're doing it right. Bronzies forget to do this correctly 100% of the time because they are busy doing other stuff. The games spent doing this are in no way wasted.

On September 04 2012 12:08 JaKaTaK wrote:
Secondly, the biggest issue with very skilled people teaching newcomers to that skill, is that they don't understand the difficulties their student is going through. Maybe because they've never had them, maybe its because its been so long that they don't really remember what it feels like, and therefore have a difficult time helping their student through the struggle.

On September 04 2012 12:08 JaKaTaK wrote:
Giving a new player a build to do is more constricting than my system. It basically says, "hey, you're only allowed to do this exact single series of things over and over again until you're good at it, and then, you're going to do that again with a new series of things" Most new players will find this incredibly boring. It stifles creativity, understanding, and exploration of the game.

On September 04 2012 09:18 Chandra wrote:

His point is that people can practice all of those things just fine doing a normal build, which is the way most everyone learns how to play the game. His whole "system" seems unnecessary and pointless.

On September 04 2012 12:08 JaKaTaK wrote:
Giving a new player a build to do is more constricting than my system. It basically says, "hey, you're only allowed to do this exact single series of things over and over again until you're good at it, and then, you're going to do that again with a new series of things" Most new players will find this incredibly boring. It stifles creativity, understanding, and exploration of the game.

Find yourself 2 people who have never played sc2 before. Better yet, find yourself 2 people who have never played an rts before. Give one of them a build, and give one of them Level 1.1. 99.9999999% of the time, the player on level 1.1 will crush the player you gave a build order to, will have more fun playing the game, and will start buidling confidence and an understanding of why and how things work. The player that you give a build order to will be overloaded with information, lose, become frustrated, and not understand why or how things work in starcraft 2. I know this works, because I've done it, many times. The issue with most higher level players teaching platinum to bronze players, is that they often times fail to recognize the struggles of the lower level player because it has been so long since they have been there. You don't have to be in the master's league to teach a player mechanics, but you do have to have a basic understanding of educational methods and psychology, human motivation, and patience.

But in all seriousness, go test it out for yourself. Grab a couple of friends who haven't played an rts before, and conduct the experiment. Observe the players before, during, and after they play. Talk to them about the experience afterwards. Forcing people to learn builds early on is a mistake. That's why we lose so many newer players, not because the game is too hard, but we're approaching teaching it in the wrong way.

Best practice you can get is from yourself. Not from some program or person telling them everything to do. Of course guidance will help..But lets face it, if your stuck and see not improvement. chances are your not really wanting to try and get better. If you was actually trying to get better you would probably be diamond if you've been playing for like 6months or more.

On September 04 2012 22:48 QuanticHawk wrote:



This is exactly what your levels is—Repeat with these same units until you hit a certain benchmark, continue? Except that your method uses less units, and isn't an actual build which will be useful in higher levels of play as well.

I just see a very limited use this that stuff after couple days of doing the same, extremely basic thing. What you're coaching can very easily be learned through just playing, reading the many guides available (which stress the importance of injection, not getting supply blocked and other basic mechanics), and watching replays of players who are actually good.

You will learn way more in 50 games of hammering away with one build order than you will with 50 games of this.

And I didn't see you answer it anywhere else: why would you quit your job for this, and what is your end goal here? I just don't see how this translates into any type of income.

On September 05 2012 00:48 JaKaTaK wrote:


The difference between TheLevels and copying a pro build is that you can to a shitload of different stuff with each round. Imagine the number of different builds that exist with just gateway units and upgrades. That's round 4. Instead of being told what to do, the player can choose and experiment with different things, find their own style and more importantly have fun while improving.

Lets say instead we show the same player to do the sentry immortal all-in that is popular right now. By the time they learn how to build all of those units and buildings without looking at the keyboard, learn the pylon timings and get everything to line up nicely the build will be obsolete, and they will be stuck with a useless build and some mechanical ability, and have to start again, hoping that they'll be able to learn the next build fast enough so that it doesn't become obsolete. Also during this time, if they try anything else, they will lose because their build has helped them rank up far enough that its the only thing they can execute properly on a mechanical level that is on par with the people they are being placed against.

So, what if we choose a build that will likely never be obsolete, something like the 4 gate. This build is definitely easier to execute so the new player will learn it faster, however, it will also net a lot of wins, and likely get the player to rank up quickly and we run into the same problem as the method above. We're stuck it a league where the only thing we can do that works is a 4 gate. And tanking our rank while learning a build, or only playing against the AI for a month or more while we learn a new one is a really undesirable thing. I did it, I watched my friends do it, get frustrated and stop playing.

My end goal is simple, make starcraft more enjoyable so that people won't get frustrated and quit early on. That way they can get to the best part of starcraft (IMO) the confidence building, mental exercising, rewarding part of the game. I think that that will translate into income, because I think it is a hole in the Sc2 community that is not being filled right now and is needed. If it doesn't, I gave a year to the Sc2 community and I'm perfectly okay with that.

On September 05 2012 01:02 Eifersuchtig wrote:


I'm so very confused. At what point do builds become obsolete? That implies a build ceases to work/win after a certain period of time.

Also why is tanking your rank to improve undesirable? I regularly do so (going from mid-high gm to high masters mmr) to learn new builds/camera hotkeys/unit hotkeys/focusing on chrono boosting upgrades/splitting templar/perfect allins.

And just curious but in your opinion have you reached the "best part of starcraft" yet?

On September 03 2012 10:24 Kronen wrote:
This guy is a prime example of what SC2 needs: infectious optimism and energy and a tireless dedication to the people who use his product. For fellow noobs, check his stuff out and get involved. It's fun and removes unneeded layers of stress from this complex pursuit.

TLDR; This guy is a good personality and has good content. Actually read/watch before you flame please.

On September 05 2012 02:44 -StrifeX- wrote:
Well, let's try putting your system to the test? I'm curious to if it really is the most efficient way to learn and get better. If does ill send my friends to your system everytime they want to improve.

Let's do a friendly test
I would be willing to take someone (or several) help teach them and and train them, and put them against a player (or several) on your system and that you help train after 2 weeks or whatever amount of time you will need? We can put them against each other several times as time passes. Just so you have some kind of proof that your system works and is the most efficient? of course both would have to be as close as possible to the same level and skill, before they start your system and i start my system on the other. Look at it as you will get more viewers because they will also want to see if this system can test out just as good? You can make it into one of your shows would be interesting.

On September 04 2012 22:48 QuanticHawk wrote:
This is exactly what your levels is—Repeat with these same units until you hit a certain benchmark, continue? Except that your method uses less units, and isn't an actual build which will be useful in higher levels of play as well.

I just see a very limited use this that stuff after couple days of doing the same, extremely basic thing. What you're coaching can very easily be learned through just playing, reading the many guides available (which stress the importance of injection, not getting supply blocked and other basic mechanics), and watching replays of players who are actually good.

You will learn way more in 50 games of hammering away with one build order than you will with 50 games of this.

And I didn't see you answer it anywhere else: why would you quit your job for this, and what is your end goal here? I just don't see how this translates into any type of income.

On September 05 2012 00:48 JaKaTaK wrote:
EDIT:

Basically what you are saying is, if i'm trying to teach a child how to add and subtract, and they aren't getting it, instead of trying to explain the problem in a different way or ask them what they don't understand about it, I should tell them they aren't trying hard enough and that they don't want it bad enough. Wow...
END EDIT

On September 05 2012 06:42 Oreo7 wrote:



That is a terrible analogy.

On September 05 2012 06:42 Oreo7 wrote:



That is a terrible analogy.

On September 06 2012 12:51 akarin wrote:
I watched the first 2 and half minutes of "TheJaKaTaK 86 - Macro vs Strategy" then I had to turn it off. Your mannerisms are so similar to Day9 it made me cringe. BE YOURSELF


<3

On September 04 2012 12:08 JaKaTaK wrote:
Giving a new player a build to do is more constricting than my system. It basically says, "hey, you're only allowed to do this exact single series of things over and over again until you're good at it, and then, you're going to do that again with a new series of things" Most new players will find this incredibly boring. It stifles creativity, understanding, and exploration of the game.

Find yourself 2 people who have never played sc2 before. Better yet, find yourself 2 people who have never played an rts before. Give one of them a build, and give one of them Level 1.1. 99.9999999% of the time, the player on level 1.1 will crush the player you gave a build order to, will have more fun playing the game, and will start buidling confidence and an understanding of why and how things work. The player that you give a build order to will be overloaded with information, lose, become frustrated, and not understand why or how things work in starcraft 2. I know this works, because I've done it, many times. The issue with most higher level players teaching platinum to bronze players, is that they often times fail to recognize the struggles of the lower level player because it has been so long since they have been there. You don't have to be in the master's league to teach a player mechanics, but you do have to have a basic understanding of educational methods and psychology, human motivation, and patience.

But in all seriousness, go test it out for yourself. Grab a couple of friends who haven't played an rts before, and conduct the experiment. Observe the players before, during, and after they play. Talk to them about the experience afterwards. Forcing people to learn builds early on is a mistake. That's why we lose so many newer players, not because the game is too hard, but we're approaching teaching it in the wrong way.

On September 13 2012 08:03 7mk wrote:



Addressing Paragraph 1:
No its not more constricting, quite the opposite. Theres nothing creative about building only super basic units, there will be no gain of understanding about the game except "have better mechanics" with this method, so yeah its basically the opposite of what youre trying to say.
You seem to think that if you play a proper build order you will have 1000 games that will just play out the same every time and youll have to work through it like a robot. Thats not how starcraft is, its a fluid game, you have to react to your opponents, you will see new facets of the build youre playing everytime that you face a new opponent.
You will learn its strengths, you will learn its weaknesses, you will learn to adjust the build according to what your opponent does, and you will improve your mechanics during all of this.

What do you learn when you only build marines, supply depots and CCs? None of these things, you will merely improve your macro, you will learn nothing else except that youre playing a build that wins you games if you outmacro your opponent and loses you games if you dont or you do outmacro him but he just counters your units too hard cause your non-existant build is awful.

When you have gotten good by playing only one good solid build, then transitioning to a different build is actually very easy because the adjustments arent that huge. If I try to do a build ive never tried before, even the very first time i try this build, it will not be as good as my most familiar build but it will still be master lvl.
But switching from your lvls to a real game is a way way bigger difference and then the player will realize that his mechanics are actually awful now that he has to do things that are more complex all of a sudden,
Similar to how even a master player can start screwing up his mechanics when his opponent throws something at him that is unconventional and catches him off guard. Being familiar with what you have to do is what makes you good at the game and lets you have good mechanics. Not having to think that much because you know the right responses is what gets you good mechanics. Mechanics is actually a lot more than learning to press D and A really fast but you wont learn that with your method, you need to learn a proper build for that.


Addressing paragraph 2:
Youre just making shit up now, youre talking out of your ass. 99.99999% ... right... I dont even know what to say to that,
And in general you really have nothing at all to show for your method. How many people that you taught are really good at the game now? So far i only read about one guy who actually got demoted after using your method.
People who have gotten really good by learning build orders? well... basically everyone who is good at the game
And this goes with paragraph 3 as well, sure I could go find some people that havent played the game, teach him your method, and they would probably slowly improve. I could also teach him a standard method and they would improve a lot faster. And if someone here will eventually say that your method helped him get from bronze to silver that means absolutely nothing, cause that is by far the easiest step.
And I actually talk to low lvl players a lot, I meet up with my local starcraft community every week, they learn the standard way, and there have been a lot of people that recently improved quite a bit, one promoted from diamond to master, another one promoted from platinum to diamond, another one promoted from gold to platinum, and one of the guys i gave a bit more detailed help improved in like a month from silver to platinum lvl.

Last time I posted you said it was ironic that people were telling you you were wasting your time while they/we were actually wasting time posting here.
The difference is that we waste a few minutes trying to help you but youre spending a whole year on this.
Even though it probably sounds like it, i didnt come here to bash you, you really do sound like a nice guy, with all of this I'm just trying to say that I really think there would be more productive, helpful things you could be doing with your life right now.

On September 13 2012 08:03 7mk wrote:

Addressing Paragraph 1:
No its not more constricting, quite the opposite. Theres nothing creative about building only super basic units, there will be no gain of understanding about the game except "have better mechanics" with this method, so yeah its basically the opposite of what youre trying to say.

It is most effective to launch into the learning process by studying a discipline’s most fundamental principles. A devotion to mastering the nuances of these basics builds the foundation required for more complex understanding; creative bursts of inspiration; and higher levels of achievement, which result from an interplay between knowledge, intuition, and creativity. By studying and deeply internalizing core concepts we develop our brain in ways that allow us to achieve a more penetrating understanding of not just one subject or practice but also all others we choose to undertake. As we immerse ourselves in doing what it takes to absorb and build on fundamentals, we experience first-hand the joy of learning and reinforce for ourselves its value. Allowing ourselves to grasp the intrinsic benefit of personal development through what we do to achieve it enhances our motivation and equips us to take learning further.

“Bruce began our study with a barren chessboard. We took on positions of reduced complexity and clear principles. Our first focus was king and pawn against king—just three pieces on the table….Layer by layer we built up my knowledge and my understanding of how to transform axioms into fuel for creative insight….This method of study gave me a feeling for the beautiful subtleties of each chess piece, because in relatively clear-cut positions I could focus on what was essential. I was also gradually internalizing a marvelous methodology of learning—the play between knowledge, intuition, and creativity. From both educational and technical perspectives, I learned from the foundation up.”

“Most of my rivals, on the other hand, began by studying opening variations….Once you start with openings, there is no way out….
It is a little like developing the habit of stealing the test from your teacher’s desk instead of learning how to do the math. You may pass the test, but you learn absolutely nothing—and most critically, you don’t gain an appreciation for the value or beauty of learning itself.”

I would appreciate it if you tested this out yourself, or at least read the document on TheLevels or watched some VODs that explain the way they work before criticizing the method. Both are at www.twitch.tv/thejakatak That being said:

All you need to get into gold is your first unit, and macro. That's 40% of all Sc2 players.

Ex) After beating Level 1 Round 12 (1.12) (1.14 for Protoss, 1.11 for Zerg), the next challenge is Level 2, Round 1. (2.1)

The new unit is the focus of each level. The idea is to explore it as much as possible, feel out what it does, understand how it works. And that unit is not arbitrary. Each unit is selected based on a number of factors:
...

Upgrades are not constricted. That means you can get any upgrade that your building constraints will allow, for instance, a zerg player with an extractor, evo chamber and a spawning pool can get 2/2 upgrades because the buildings allow it. They can also get the roach upgrades, but cannot get 3/3 because they have yet to unlock the infestation pit.

... Again, this project is early in its development, we don't have years of data to back us up. Give it some time, and you will see the power of this method.

... Again, this project is early in its development, we don't have years of data to back us up. Give it some time, and you will see the power of this method.

We won't find out unless we test it statistically with atleast 3 groups (Playing a lot but however they want; Build Order focused; handicapped Macro style). However we might be able to point out flaws.

MstrJinbo United States. September 14 2012 22:05
You main criticism hinges on that this method is not "as good" as copying a build and perfecting it. I largely agree with that sentiment, but only a minority of people who play Starcraft will find that appealing.

JaKaTaK United States. September 14 2012 11:59
Again, this project is early in its development

On September 14 2012 23:54 reapsen wrote:
Add: It occured to me, that my post lacked constructivity so here is what i would do if i were in your shoes:

First of all i would emphasize much more on the fact, that you saved up money to do this, and you do not rely on payment or ad revenue and that your service is genuienly free (at this point of time).

Then i I would write down the JakaTak-Method(tm) step by step and compose a nice PDF file out of it.

Next i would invest all my time into applying your method on yourself. And stream your own progress while using it. Make yourself the living proof that this method works and how far it can get you (optimally to Master League). Leave all newbie coaching aside during this and focus fully on improving yourself.

As soon as you have succeeded in that, you have a much much better standing. You made a decent player out of yourself, you proved your method works and now you can really start coaching. You could make videos about your method for free and maybe sell the .pdf file for a small prize like 5$ or so. You can also charge a small fee for private coaching lessons or something depeding on the demand. You can also try to advertise your service on different layers, like buying a sponsored thread on TL or sth.

At least that is how i would do it

On September 15 2012 02:43 Alejandrisha wrote:
improving isn't rocket science. rip one build from a kr player and practice it vs cpu until you can do the first ~8 mins it as fast as they can. poof masters

On September 13 2012 08:03 7mk wrote:
So far i only read about one guy who actually got demoted after using your method.

On September 15 2012 02:56 JaKaTaK wrote:


I think you are missing my point. The "only play one build order" method is very boring and "unfun" for many players. The point of TheLevels is to make improving at Sc2 more fun, measurable, and rewarding. Understanding the "Why?" and "How?" questions instead of the "What?" question.

On September 14 2012 02:20 JaKaTaK wrote:
@sanddbox

What are those quotes from. "The Art of Learning" and "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do"? Or another Bruce Lee book? I'd like to read them if I haven't already :D

On September 15 2012 02:43 Alejandrisha wrote:
improving isn't rocket science. rip one build from a kr player and practice it vs cpu until you can do the first ~8 mins it as fast as they can. poof masters

Gravve
I have yet to ladder, because, as people have already stated, I feel that without observer control for vision, I would be at a severe disadvantage to someone who does some banshee/dt shenanigans, or does mass Air or whatever.

On September 15 2012 07:49 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:


From "The Art of Learning" and additional material from the educational program built around it.

Advanced Learning
- Master the Fundamentals
- Learning the Macro From the Micro
- Making Smaller Circles
- Numbers to Leave Numbers
- Bringing it All Together

On September 15 2012 07:53 Antylamon wrote:


This is so hilariously fitting.

On September 15 2012 07:53 Antylamon wrote:


This is so hilariously fitting.

On September 15 2012 08:11 Kronen wrote:


I lolled too as I actually read the section immediately above the one you posted... excerpted from the "Learning the fundamentals" section: (obviously regarding learning to play chess)

"We took on positions of reduced complexity and clear principles. Our first focus was king and pawn against king—just three pieces on the table. Layer by layer we built up my knowledge and my understanding of how to transform axioms into fuel for creative insight….This method of study gave me a feeling for the beautiful subtleties of each chess piece, because in relatively clear-cut positions I could focus on what was essential."

Checkmate methinks?

On September 15 2012 02:56 JaKaTaK wrote:


I think you are missing my point. The "only play one build order" method is very boring and "unfun" for many players. The point of TheLevels is to make improving at Sc2 more fun, measurable, and rewarding. Understanding the "Why?" and "How?" questions instead of the "What?" question.

On September 15 2012 07:49 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:
Yeah, no. This approach is flawed in many, many ways.

On September 15 2012 09:37 Antylamon wrote:
*snip*

On September 15 2012 09:37 Antylamon wrote:

The underlying condescending tone of this post pissed me off.

I was trying to lift the mood of the conversation. The mood is equally important when compared to the usefulness of the context.

However, I rashly and embarrassingly misread the conversation.

Advanced Learning
- Master the Fundamentals
- Learning the Macro From the Micro
- Making Smaller Circles
- Numbers to Leave Numbers
- Bringing it All Together

On September 15 2012 10:50 Castigo wrote:


I think Artosis (or Jinro?) posted in a blog entry (i can't find it for the life of me), which says that pro koreans, when approaching sc2 they cheese their heart out instead of going for a macro game. This fits the Learning the macro from the micro.
However what that post (and i feel yours too) does not take into consideration, it's that them players can already macro if they want to, but they decide not to, to learn the controls better. Whilist TheJakatak audience it's people who CAN'T macro.
Also it's quite rewarding in the lower leagues to see how you can crush your opponent, by just simply outmacroing them. Or even if you lost the game, to see your SQ being so much better than theirs

On September 16 2012 04:23 kollin wrote:


Jinro tweeted (which Artosis later expanded upon in his blog) how the PRIME terrans mostly did cheesy builds when they first started playing, for example Marineking 2 raxing a lot, or Polt 111ing in TvP long before anyone else. This helped them learn exactly how far they could push certain units. They learned the game in chunks against the best players in the world. Then it didn't take them long to improve their mechanics, which is why Marineking has such beastly micro and macro.

On September 16 2012 04:49 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:



Playing aggressively - although not necessarily cheesy - is extremely good for improving mechanics. What it won't improve so much is understanding the early->mid->late flow of the matchup, which was fine when the game was in its early stages anyway. In short, they gradually worked up to playing more of a macro style as their mechanics and grasp of the game improved.

Im not sure how they will translate over to actual games

Doing early attacks also teaches you how to exploit your opponants comp, and lets you explore the power of certain timings.

but also the economic planning involved in making multiple unit types.

On September 23 2012 06:18 damnMangos wrote:
the point is to learn how to keep your money low and your income up while making an army (even if it is a terribly useless army).

... One game you think it's your unit composition that lost you the game and the next it's your expansion timing but the problem is that you're constantly gauging yourself against your peers and your equals so the tricks and skills you learn in gold league are suddenly obsolete in plat

On September 23 2012 07:30 rikter wrote:


These two statements stand out. A typical 1 base will keep your money low, your income where it needs to be to support 3-4 production buildings, and an army that is terribly useful. Not only that, I say its actually easier to do the 1 base than it is to do these other earlier goals (since you cut workers at 24 and only need to build 3 production buildings), and you learn some finer detail things too that you arent going to get on the early levels, like how to actually kill. Besides, with the levels you are already using a build order, just a really bad and poorly defined one. Seriously, how is the levels easier than making 24 workers, a couple production buildings and then just attacking? Besides which, doing it this way gives you practice at making units, managing rallies, keeping up on supply all while attacking and learning how to exploit and kill the other guy. Macro while microing is the heart of the game, the two things cant be separated, although if you start out with just one base it makes it easier to start learning.

Learning how to analyze your own replays is a nice skill to have. Easy way to do it, look at the graphs on the score screen. See how your army value compares to his, see how your resource rate compares to his. Look at the battles in replay. Before the battle, pause, and check out the units tab. If you each took all of your units and tossed them into the middle of the map, how would you do? Do you have enough units ? Do you have a lot of units but the wrong units? How are your upgrades? If you are doing an established build, compare your game timings to a pro replay, where are you deviating?

In short, everything you learn from the levels you could learn by starting off on one base and progressing in the way I described a post or two up. You will also learn additional things, and do so in a way that corresponds to how the game is actually played. You can still set goals regarding keeping energy low, no supply blocks, constant production, and do so within a framework that will start teaching you all the useful skills of the game right away, no waiting, in a manner that is eminently doable. A one base play is the simplest fundamental element of the game. You can go all the way through the levels, youre still going to have to come back and learn all the stuff you would have otherwise learned at the same time had you started with 1 base instead of 1 unit.

On September 24 2012 04:29 Tragedyx1 wrote:


I agree with what you are saying. I am a fresh player to Starcraft 2 who found the levels just last week and started implementing it in ladder games a few days ago. Of course being a noob, I am starting off in bronze, but one thing I have noticed, because of the levels I am learning each unit one by one, I am not worrying about winning and I am focusing on keeping my resources, energy (protoss by the way) and supply at a sufficient level. If I had not found the levels, I probably would not be doing these things at this point. Now, if I were to just stick to one base and set the same goals as the levels set for us, I could probably be at the same level. After about 30-40 games trying to keep my resources low I am slowly learning how to manage all of that. When I first started out, I was slightly focusing on my micro along with my macro, but by doing that, my income was well over 1k-2k. I was worrying more about my army than I was focusing on producing structures, units and workers. When I found the levels and realized what it implemented, I started focusing on my production and spending my money instead of what my army is doing. Also, the more I do this, the more comfortable I am getting with the game and the better my economy is doing, which means I can not focus a little on keeping my army alive. Now, I could probably do the same thing with just sticking to one base and throwing in expansions when comfortable as well. Along with the one base, I could also set goals and what not. I could also use the whole unlock system that the levels uses. The only question I have with this is, why would I go through all that trouble when it is already done for me? The levels already simplifies all that and sets the goals for me. Most beginners just do not know where to start and I think that the player just loses hope. Of course there are thousands upon thousands of forum threads which explains all the details, but the levels puts it all in one system.

Now I am only speaking from a beginners stand point. For platinum, diamond and beyond I understand that it is a lot different. That is all you here is how different it is. But the point of the levels is to learn fundamentals. There are many ways on how to learn fundamentals, but the levels just simplifies all this in one system. Now the only problem I am seeing with the levels is mostly how to further implement microing and multitasking, because to me all the levles are really the same, which is macro/macro, macro/micro and macro/micro/multitask. But I feel that it needs to be more defined than just that. The micro and multitasking need specific goals or guidelines to help higher leagues and still keep the fundamentals of the game in mind.

On September 24 2012 05:03 Tragedyx1 wrote:
I did make it sound complicated and that was not my intention. But why don't counters and army control matter? Emphasis on this would further put it into perspective.

On September 24 2012 05:42 Salient wrote:
Wouldn't you get the same benefit by executing one simple build over and over, and then reviewing the replays. For example, just 4 gate every game, and focus on hitting the timing of zealot, stalker + 4 warp in rounds at 5:40. Focus on chroning probes twice and the core 4 times, and don't get supply capped. Then focus on not missing warp in rounds. Then you can focus on keeping zealots in front of stalkers and reteating when the zealots die (conserve gas units). Wouldn't that be more fun than an artificial training regimine?

On September 24 2012 05:42 Salient wrote:
Wouldn't you get the same benefit by executing one simple build over and over, and then reviewing the replays. For example, just 4 gate every game, and focus on hitting the timing of zealot, stalker + 4 warp in rounds at 5:40. Focus on chroning probes twice and the core 4 times, and don't get supply capped. Then focus on not missing warp in rounds. Then you can focus on keeping zealots in front of stalkers and reteating when the zealots die (conserve gas units). Wouldn't that be more fun than an artificial training regimine?

On September 24 2012 06:03 Tragedyx1 wrote:


This might work for some, but not a wider audience. That is what he is going for I believe. If you were to do the same thing over and over without some kind of reward, then it gets tedious and boring. I hate to use this as an example but it is for lack of a better example. Call of duty uses an unlock system, right? Now it is not used for learning purposes generally, but it is used to get players wanting more. Players want to unlock everything and want to progress. You get better by playing and there needs to be some way of measuring that progression. Now setting goals like not getting supplied blocked and keeping resources low is a good way of doing this. Now the unlocking of something can be more rewarding. Also, when you progress to better units, you can start using various other strategies with the units you unlocked.

On September 24 2012 05:54 JaKaTaK wrote:


It lacks autonomy. People want to be able to exercise their creativity and try different things. They want to have the freedom to enjoy the game on their own terms, without being overloaded with information. TheLevels achieves this.