• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:20
CEST 12:20
KST 19:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced21BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
[Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 746 users

(G) 4 Barracks MMM TvP - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10338 Posts
May 12 2012 21:46 GMT
#21
Wow, nice guide, and I've learned some useful things such as:

denying bases rather than taking them
6-8 ghosts is a good number (hmm so not 15? or is that more for situations where both players have a large economy and so and/or you don't have time to save energy so you need to produce more of them)
reactor:tech lab ratio

Though, even 1.5:1 ratio for reactor:techlab is shocking to me. 6 Tech labs 9 reactors? usually it's the other way. Have you seen any pros get more reactors than tech labs, or is it just for this style that you can be or need to be more marine heavy to stop those zealots, since he doesn't have as much gas and hence you don't need to worry about the AOE damage as much?
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
LlamaNamedOsama
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1900 Posts
May 12 2012 21:55 GMT
#22
Seems interesting, I'll check it out against my protoss friend. Still not sure of its viability in a timing attack - from watching the first replay uploaded, the protoss seemed to play pretty oddly, going fe into 1gate robo, and building 0 sentries (which is especially strange given how useful ffs would be on that ramp on Ohana) - plus the toss went for 2 robos on 2 base, and a twilight council, without the economy to really support all of that.
Dario Wünsch: I guess...Creator...met his maker *sunglasses*
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
May 12 2012 23:50 GMT
#23
@Yoshi Kirishima

The way QXC put it, is that players will have an all marauder ball. This ball does not have the dps to kill the Protoss army so it slowly dies because you just don't deal the damage. Then players have the marine ball, where they have the DPS to kill a Protoss army but then they die because of how little HP they have.

I think the only time I'm seeing more techlabs than reactors nowadays is to counter Squirtle all-ins, and stalker collosus compositions.

@LlamaNamedOsama

I went 5-0 today on ladder with it and got my golden star ^^. I will continue to upload even mildly interesting replays, and I'll re-order them so that that silly one is not the first one the reader sees.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10338 Posts
May 13 2012 00:02 GMT
#24
On May 13 2012 08:50 Thaniri wrote:
@Yoshi Kirishima

The way QXC put it, is that players will have an all marauder ball. This ball does not have the dps to kill the Protoss army so it slowly dies because you just don't deal the damage. Then players have the marine ball, where they have the DPS to kill a Protoss army but then they die because of how little HP they have.

I think the only time I'm seeing more techlabs than reactors nowadays is to counter Squirtle all-ins, and stalker collosus compositions.

@LlamaNamedOsama

I went 5-0 today on ladder with it and got my golden star ^^. I will continue to upload even mildly interesting replays, and I'll re-order them so that that silly one is not the first one the reader sees.


Ok, thanks! I have noticed more reactors but haven't noticed more reactors than tech labs yet. So this change is simply because protoss has been getting more zealot heavy recently? I mean, I wonder why they didn't go more reactors back then (or rather, why it took so long). Especially since Ghost EMP was so much better back then so HTs were much less of a problem vs marines.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
May 13 2012 00:26 GMT
#25
@Yoshi Kirishima

I am not one to analyze previous metagames. The reasoning for the marines is twofold.

1) Stalkers just are not a particularly good unit in TvP, so yeah Marauders counter them, but Marines do a splendid job as well.

2) Marauders can't deal the damage to the other "filler" alternative, Zealots.
chillswithhippos
Profile Joined October 2010
United States74 Posts
May 13 2012 01:16 GMT
#26
On May 12 2012 13:49 GleaM wrote:
You're missing a lot.

Forge expand is "bad" well thats sort of retarded, because all it does is delay protoss tech by somewhere around 20 seconds and it is an extremely viable build, as shown in the GSL.


Well, I think he's trying to say that forge fast expand is generally bad against THIS build, which is somewhat true because terran all-ins do a pretty good job of destroying really greedy builds like that. He specified that he changes this build into an all-in once he sees a FFE.

I do recall both Naniwa and Oz using it in the GSL. Oz was of course more successful with it, seeing as he won his game, but I don't think he got all-ined that game, he was just pressured and it was a relatively late pressure too if I remember correctly. Naniwa tried to pull off the same thing, but against MVP's mass rax, marine/scv all-in. He lost even after putting down the third safety cannon that the casters were talking about.

Of course this build is different from a marine/scv all-in, but I'm just saying that a FFE is EXTREMELY hard to pull off against an all-ining terran unless you got a perfect scout in beforehand.
chyea...
etherealfall
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia476 Posts
May 13 2012 02:06 GMT
#27
How does this push fare against double forge as described by NrGMonk? Once i see > 3 rax with starport on 2 base, i would put down 1-2 cannons at natural, and spread stalkers in main. How do you fare with an upgrade disadvantage then?
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
May 13 2012 03:53 GMT
#28
@etherealfall

Double forge can be starved. And 4-6 medivacs will outheal the DPS of the mass zealot that is likely coming off of double forge.

I'm not familiar with the NRGMonk version. But I would apply the same principles I know about double forge.
etherealfall
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia476 Posts
May 13 2012 13:19 GMT
#29
Hmm. Are you able to get any replays of this vsing double forge?
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-13 13:56:52
May 13 2012 13:56 GMT
#30
Thank you for posting this guide I also prefer a 4barracks opening in TvP. And to be fair, Terran production often does go by "when you can afford it", but you could go a little more in depth on the timings.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
May 13 2012 18:29 GMT
#31
Good guide, buy can i suggest: if you are going to delay tech, a stonger build will be 5 rax, here is why, and also some small criticism:

1. reaper is ok. i'm not a reaper player but a lot of people feel safe with a reaper on the field and i totally understand that (for watch tower/scouting), but you have to consider chrono'd stalkers as a response to you taking gas (protoss will see). this is a common response and 3gates of stalkers being warped in would give you a huge nightmare as a follow up to this chrono'd stalker harass if you have no bunker
2. 21 CC is dead. 16 CC it buddy, and do it on the lowground like a boss. Protoss WANTS to macro. Think of protoss as zerg. They suck. If they 1 or 2 base all in you, you just repair bunkers and amove once your saturation + mules beats their income on equal bases. So 9/10 times, protoss will 1gate FE in response to this anyways, so just 16 CC.
3. This brings me to my next pt: polt combat shields expand building.. in tvt polt will do 1 barracks fe, but instead of immediately adding those 2 more rax, will instead throw down a geyser. this allows him to start an uber early stim or combatshields + get his two rax negligibly later (like, 5 esconds later. i have done the timings. you miss out on like two marines). i can see this being a smoother way for you to accomplish the ideas of your build, and still get in the protoss base at a relevant time.
4. There is no distinct advantage to going 4 barracks versus 3 that is really that noticeable. if you want to add new barracks past your original 3 (which i wouldn't begin contructing until i've started my third to be honest), do it when your minerals pool from making reactors 2,3 on your rax (assuming you have a techlab on one already)

forgg uses this hiccup in income to afford raxes 4/5 and upon completion, salvages and starts a 11 min 3rd. this is very "all in" but it's almost impossible not to do damage or win the game with 5 barracks and medivacs in tvp mid game
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
May 13 2012 19:34 GMT
#32
@TangSC
I'll try to re-work the notes.

@c0sm0naut
I'll just answer all 4 points.

1/4. Funnily, the day after I posted this I started doing a normal 1 rax FE for every game.

2. I try to fit in stim before the CC, to set up for the 4 marauder timing to kill SCVs and scout. 21 CC ensues.

3. Can I get a replay of that in tvp? I have witnessed it in TvT and I actually kill them before 10 minutes passes.

When I 5 rax, I skip the medivacs, pull all my SCVs and do a big old stim timing.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Krystianer vs sOs
SKillous vs ArT
MaNa vs Elazer
Spirit vs Gerald
Clem vs TBD
uThermal vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
RotterdaM891
ComeBackTV 872
IndyStarCraft 397
CranKy Ducklings138
Rex110
3DClanTV 92
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 891
IndyStarCraft 397
Rex 110
ProTech66
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 13724
Hyuk 4255
Hyun 912
firebathero 669
Mini 664
Barracks 660
Larva 642
BeSt 339
EffOrt 257
ZerO 76
[ Show more ]
Shinee 66
sorry 65
Free 49
zelot 48
Last 38
Noble 35
scan(afreeca) 33
NaDa 22
soO 19
Sacsri 16
Sharp 15
yabsab 11
Bale 9
Movie 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe651
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K737
shoxiejesuss608
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor284
Other Games
gofns14262
Happy473
Beastyqt453
SortOf101
ZerO(Twitch)10
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH335
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2218
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3h 40m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
7h 40m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.