EPTScouting the second gate isn't much of an issue. The point of the zealot poke isn't to surprise the opponent. You just want to force them to cut drones while you continue to make probes. It is very difficult for them to make the perfect amount of defense, because you can always choose to just pull back and/or attack another base. Also, a mobile defense, aka lings, is the most larva inefficient option for them.
[G] Phyren's Macro PvZ - Page 2
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
Scouting the second gate isn't much of an issue. The point of the zealot poke isn't to surprise the opponent. You just want to force them to cut drones while you continue to make probes. It is very difficult for them to make the perfect amount of defense, because you can always choose to just pull back and/or attack another base. Also, a mobile defense, aka lings, is the most larva inefficient option for them. | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
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chestnutcc
India429 Posts
On May 07 2012 05:35 NoisyNinja wrote: What about roach hydra drops? Rare, but I feel that they would be able to sneak by your air force while the zerg expands and techs up. This is valid for any stargate opener, or indeed any build the toss can do, don't see the relevance in asking the OP this question. | ||
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chestnutcc
India429 Posts
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
On May 07 2012 04:41 Arcanefrost wrote: How is making 5 defensive roaches hard :p I address this in the op. The roaches would need to be very early. Also, they wont be able to chase down the zealots, and you can split up the zealots to multiple positions. Making 5+ roaches this early delays their lair and requires an early gas that decreases their mineral income. The roaches wont be able to do much without speed and can't be very aggressive against the voidrays. On May 07 2012 05:35 NoisyNinja wrote: What about roach hydra drops? Rare, but I feel that they would be able to sneak by your air force while the zerg expands and techs up. One of my replays involves a zerg that went for roach drops. It is a strong option as they can do multipronged attacks. However, roaches are really only strong when they have a significant numbers advantage or relatively open field. You have the extra minerals to shore up defenses with cannons and eventually get a large enough army to trade very efficiently with the roaches. On May 07 2012 05:49 chestnutcc wrote: OP, 6:45 gases seems far too late. Warp gates will be v delayed as will any tech path you choose. If your zealot push fails, there is a good window of time where you can do nothing till your tech comes online and the zerg can freely drone i.e. the build is contingent on doing a lot of damage during the push. I don't see how you can hold off the roach max with delayed tech and sentries. I like the idea of zealot pressure in the current meta where the roach warren comes down at 7:00 minutes or so, forcing the zerg into slow lings, but they will almost always be able to scout the double gate/ lack of gases and prepare accordingly. Like you pointed out, reinforcement is not an option, so multiple queens with a few spines should deal with this fine. Is the delayed tech really worth the opportunity to force a few lings? The tech is only meant to secure the third base. Your stargate does need to come up on time to allow you to defend slow roach and ling attacks. Again, the zealots don't have to do much damage. The point is to garner an economic advantage and fast third. Queens and spines alone aren't mobile enough. | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
I address this in the op. The roaches would need to be very early. Also, they wont be able to chase down the zealots, and you can split up the zealots to multiple positions. Making 5+ roaches this early delays their lair and requires an early gas that decreases their mineral income. The roaches wont be able to do much without speed and can't be very aggressive against the voidrays. If he scouts the 2nd gate, which all good zergs will, he can get a reactive gas for roaches. This does decrease his income, but it also prevents your zealots from doing damage + he can fake an all-in with them to pressure you back so I think he will be ahead. I think the idea of forcing units with zealots is good, but if it's just to fake wouldn't you be better off showing the 2gates and not making a lot of zealots, but just enough so that he has to prepare for a 5-6 zealot push? This way you can tech faster and force the same amount of units + he will have less drones when your slighlty faster air arrives which will hurt his econ even more by having to go spores+queens. Also has anyone tried doing this with stalkers instead of zealots? It would basically work the same, but without cutting tech and gas but I'm not sure whether it's all that good. | ||
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