EPT[Q] Can cannon rushing really be perfected? - Page 10
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
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Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
WAY TO GO GAULZI! Keep doing what other people say you can't do!!! Pretty sure there are GSL players who can learn a thing or two about cannon rushing from this guy should they decide to.....you know.....switch it up a little during their BoX series........ The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot! | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On May 03 2012 11:51 EC-10 wrote: I tend to lurk the strategy forums and enjoy watching streams of protoss players. To be honest the community seems a bit harsh. Yes, I have watched gaulzi and yes I have seen him BM people when his attack fails. I don't see any validity in the claims of him stream watching or intentionally cheating like this. Not to mention, who would want to face the same person four times in a row cannon rushing every time. If someone lost 4 times to this in a row I would be surprised. As many have said before it is knowing how to fight it that will save you from this strategy. People here only see the wins but many other people have beaten him including Idra the 2 other times they met. About the BM. Yes I have seen him get upset when he loses. So do many many many other players. I never saw the big deal. Yes in events and matches there is a level of respect and showmanship but this isn't that. Again he doesn't BM every game he loses but I can imagine it getting frustrating streaming for 12 hours+ in a row Lastly his play seems higher level than plat from my experience. Compared to what I have seen from plat players he seems much better with both macro and micro. I am not suggesting he is some starcraft god but there is a significant amount of decision making and micro within cannon rushing, not to mention the follow-ups in failed attempts. Anyways, have enjoyed his stream and learned a lot about executing and defending cannoning. I personally think he should get a IlIlIlIIl account to see how many more wins he gets as an anonymous protoss. Watch the vod. You can hear his opponent's stream in the background and the stream window is open when he alt-tabs. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On May 03 2012 11:51 EC-10 wrote: I tend to lurk the strategy forums and enjoy watching streams of protoss players. To be honest the community seems a bit harsh. Yes, I have watched gaulzi and yes I have seen him BM people when his attack fails. I don't see any validity in the claims of him stream watching or intentionally cheating like this. Not to mention, who would want to face the same person four times in a row cannon rushing every time. If someone lost 4 times to this in a row I would be surprised. As many have said before it is knowing how to fight it that will save you from this strategy. People here only see the wins but many other people have beaten him including Idra the 2 other times they met. About the BM. Yes I have seen him get upset when he loses. So do many many many other players. I never saw the big deal. Yes in events and matches there is a level of respect and showmanship but this isn't that. Again he doesn't BM every game he loses but I can imagine it getting frustrating streaming for 12 hours+ in a row Lastly his play seems higher level than plat from my experience. Compared to what I have seen from plat players he seems much better with both macro and micro. I am not suggesting he is some starcraft god but there is a significant amount of decision making and micro within cannon rushing, not to mention the follow-ups in failed attempts. Anyways, have enjoyed his stream and learned a lot about executing and defending cannoning. I personally think he should get a IlIlIlIIl account to see how many more wins he gets as an anonymous protoss. I've only seen him transition into 4 gate or DTs after cannon rush gets stopped. Never seen him try to expand. | ||
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EC-10
United States7 Posts
On May 03 2012 12:14 oOOoOphidian wrote: Watch the vod. You can hear his opponent's stream in the background and the stream window is open when he alt-tabs. Ok, so what you are saying is that he ran a probe to every other base before his opponents because he was stream cheating but wanted to cover his tracks. Then he did the exact build that he always does every game as a cover to make it look like he wasn't cheating more. The only plausible reason to have his stream open would be to play him in a ranked game to draw attention to his stream which doesn't have many viewers. There is nearly no benefit to stream cheating when you are cannon rushing other than finding position which was null because he scouted all. Also to the other post. A lot of games vs z turn into 3 base or more games after cannoning fails. | ||
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oZe
Sweden492 Posts
On May 02 2012 19:53 Sated wrote: It's not that it's "bad" from a winning point of view, or bad from a "moral" point of view; the problem is that it's "bad" from a playing against it point of view. A complete waste of time for the person who has to go up against it. There are only two reasons for playing a game. One of them IS TO WASTE TIME. The other is to gain skill. No matter wich way you look at it. He either succeded in wasting your time or gave you the oppurtunity to learn. In poker there are farmers, who wait for good hands hoping people will pay them off. Foxes, who try to take what's not really theirs. Yeah there are happy go luckys also but that's beside my point. My point is that the biggest reason people go on tilt in poker is that they think that everyone should play the game the way they think it should be played. And they go Mad® when someone is rewarded for doing what they perceive as the wrong thing. Wouldn't it be easy if everyone did what you knew they were going to do? Oh, no lol wait his cover was blown. This cannon guy does do what everyone knows he is going to do =) Poker and starcraft has many levels. Probably more than any human can comprehend. Who are you to say that cannon rushing is a bigger waste of time than a run of the mill macro game? I would propose that the longest game is the biggest waste of time, but you could waste the same amount of time with a few cannon rushes ;-) Winning is winning and losing is losing. Saying that it's cheese doesn't change the outcome of the game. It probably only makes you Mad®. Btw psychologists call it rationalization ^^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(making_excuses) /Says the macro player with almost no micro who only cannon rushed to get the beat 2 ai on insane achieve | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On May 03 2012 11:14 iAmJeffReY wrote: Unfortunately, the scout timing can line up with a nexus first -> gate, or -> forge gate build, as it 9 scouts. So unless you know he's who he is, you don't drop a gas because you are gasless FEing more often than not. So the only way to stop it, is knowing he's going to cannon rush from a scout at 9 or earlier, that you read as a nexus first, then pylon drops so you pull 4 scvs. You start making units, and probably a bunker and another depot so when you lost the first one you have one...? It works so well against the high level players because they read into very similar things. You HAVE to FE more often than not to stand a chance. (read more often than not) If toss FEs, and you take a gas because you see a probe that goes down and makes a pylon. Sometimes, he makes it around your barracks, so you read a sase like potential block of addon kind of thing. so if he cancels the pylon, cancel the refinery, and either way stop building it before it finishes so you can cancel it later if it appears he's not cannon rushing. I don't think you lose more than he loses for the pylon. If he's doing a sase block add-on, it's because you took gas: if you didn't take gas you aren't building the add-on anyway and you should know it's not an add-on block. If you are going for an add-on, just take the gas closer to the ramp in that case rather than the one further away. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On May 03 2012 12:26 SupLilSon wrote: I've only seen him transition into 4 gate or DTs after cannon rush gets stopped. Never seen him try to expand. He expands in the vid on the op o.O | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
Go to around 29 minute mark for some lols | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
Can it be held with CC first? http://www.twitch.tv/gaulzi/b/313465818 10:45 doesnt seem enough that you depot block the probe. | ||
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ChEDo
Canada310 Posts
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On May 03 2012 16:34 Ryndika wrote: So anyone has words how to stop this as terran? I usually rally 14th SCV to build second depot if I go gasless but that's not fast enough. Can it be held with CC first? I'd think something like 3 rax before OC(2nd and 3rd rax can be made around the time 1st one finishes along with a bunker that's not in range of the first 2 cannons mgiht be a good move. Then as soon as you have slowed down the cannon crawl, you get gas and get rauders so your bunkers no longer get outranged. Also when he starts building 2+ cannons, it seems to me like a must to spread your attacks, so you are dmging all the cannons equally, so he can't just cancel the cannon you are attacking and the other has 100% hp. Looking at the Select game, if he had started rax 2 and 3 at ~2:50, they'd have been done at ~3:45 and he'd get rine 3 and 4 at 4:10, so it'd be 4 rines vs 3 cannons(those 3 cannons have finished for a bit). Via that, it should be *holdable* and probably at that time he should get gas and probably give rax 2 and 3 tech labs while floating rax 1 to safety and start rauder production. This is obviously just theorycrafting, but I think that'd be the best chance. | ||
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Cirqueenflex
499 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:31 oZe wrote: There are only two reasons for playing a game. One of them IS TO WASTE TIME. The other is to gain skill. No matter wich way you look at it. He either succeded in wasting your time or gave you the oppurtunity to learn. maybe i misunderstood, but i thought the main reason to play a game was to have fun | ||
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Salts
Canada32 Posts
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Mowr
Sweden791 Posts
On May 03 2012 16:34 Ryndika wrote: So anyone has words how to stop this as terran? I usually rally 14th SCV to build second depot if I go gasless but that's not fast enough. Can it be held with CC first? http://www.twitch.tv/gaulzi/b/313465818 10:45 doesnt seem enough that you depot block the probe. If you look at his terran games the ones he loses generally seems to be when the terran pull back and gives up the ramp and make 2-3 protective bunkers to keep him from continuing the cannoning. Walling off the ramp (after the probe gets in) seems to only work when Gaulzi messes up and loses the probe. I am not sure how to do it on Antiga. If you block the gas he can just build pylons between the gas and edge. | ||
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Plague1503
Croatia466 Posts
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Narw
Poland884 Posts
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On May 03 2012 17:43 Cirqueenflex wrote: maybe i misunderstood, but i thought the main reason to play a game was to have fun having fun and wasting time is not mutually exclusive, neither is gaining skill and having fun | ||
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dotDash
Sweden142 Posts
Sidenote: I've been a victim to the antiga crap lol. Cheers Dan | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
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