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[Q] Can cannon rushing really be perfected? - Page 12

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Picklebread
Profile Joined June 2011
808 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 00:30:24
May 04 2012 00:23 GMT
#221
Depends if terrans start walling off with depot/rax on the lowground
Wouldnt that shut this down? im curious.
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
May 04 2012 01:30 GMT
#222
On May 04 2012 09:23 Picklebread wrote:
Depends if terrans start walling off with depot/rax on the lowground
Wouldnt that shut this down? im curious.

...how? Can't he just pylon out of range of your buildings, and then cannon walk and take out the depot, and contain you?

Sure he may not win right there, but he can drop an expo, cannon up, and go into some sick ass 6 gate robo timing like a nexus-forge build.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
david0925
Profile Joined September 2010
212 Posts
May 04 2012 03:14 GMT
#223
I'm not going to comment on whether there is a legitimate concern in regards to balance here,but it seems like a bunch of players just want to play 10minutenorush with their favorite macro build (unless they're terran, which is then shortened to maybe 8minutenorush).

This build is really strong because it's relatively new, and people are cutting corners a lot early on to get an economic advantage, especially after numerous P/T early aggressions have been nerfed.

and also, I'd have to agree with the notion that there seems to be plenty of GM players gracing us with their presence in this thread.
sagefreke
Profile Joined August 2010
United States241 Posts
May 04 2012 03:59 GMT
#224
Interesting how posters are suggesting now that if protoss starts putting pylons on the low ground immediately sac a drone and make an extractor so he can't gain sight of your high ground and act as if the Zerg player isn't already automatically behind and pressured into a 1-2 base all in since the Protoss player can safely take his expansion without fear of an attack until the 7 minute mark.

Other than going a 10 pool tell me how to effectively stop the protoss from cannoning my low ground so that I don't end up automatically behind by 21 supply.
yo yo yo
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
May 04 2012 04:10 GMT
#225
This is why I really think pylons shouldn't wall, sort of like spine crawlers/BW pylons - this way you can surround them with workers. Same with cannons perhaps.
vibeo gane,
][Primarch][
Profile Joined February 2012
Sweden302 Posts
May 04 2012 06:24 GMT
#226
On May 04 2012 08:31 nebffa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 07:11 ][Primarch][ wrote:
On May 03 2012 08:11 gaulzi wrote:
On May 03 2012 06:32 oOOoOphidian wrote:
On May 03 2012 04:27 Jaaaaasper wrote:
On May 03 2012 04:06 ][Primarch][ wrote:
So...CombatEx and Deezer are gone but hey Gaulzi comes to rescue, he will make the ladder as disgusting as possible for everyone. Way to go Gaulzi! Herp Fucking Derp


To be fair, from what i have seen of him, he doesn't bm or stream cheat, which was what made combat ez and deezer so despicable. If he does do that as well then yes he is just as bad, if not he is just someone who has chosen to be good at one (cheesy) thing, as opposed to trying to be good at the game over all.

He has streamed his own play when you can clearly hear the sound of his opponent's stream in the background...

Reference please.


lol trying to hide the truth? :D not only do you BM, Canon Rush and Streamcheat, you also talk about "next level canon-rushing". Are you actually CombatEx after plastic surgery? lol


I often don't post cause I think I might look like an idiot to my fellow forum-goers - but hey Mr ][Primarch][, those words are just vicious and unless you have any video of this actually being the case I suggest you gtfo. When people throw bad manner around for no good reason it just makes me really angry - especially when it's against cheesers because of how easy it is to lose people feel like they are some how justified in being generally bad manner towards them. Sure be angry in game I don't care about that - and besides that's cause you just got fucking cheesed and you're angry I get like that too lol - it's when people like Primarch take it to the forums where it is clearly not cause you're angry you got cheesed you are just trying to start a fight - these keyboard warriors just make me mad.


are you kidding me, ofc there are proof, people have already posted it in this thread. having other peoples stream open while playing them is unforgivable in my eyes.
Huge fan of Empire Kas, The Destroyer of Worlds, The Machine, The Second Terminator, The Supreme Robot!
nebffa
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Australia776 Posts
May 04 2012 06:49 GMT
#227
On May 04 2012 15:24 ][Primarch][ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 08:31 nebffa wrote:
On May 04 2012 07:11 ][Primarch][ wrote:
On May 03 2012 08:11 gaulzi wrote:
On May 03 2012 06:32 oOOoOphidian wrote:
On May 03 2012 04:27 Jaaaaasper wrote:
On May 03 2012 04:06 ][Primarch][ wrote:
So...CombatEx and Deezer are gone but hey Gaulzi comes to rescue, he will make the ladder as disgusting as possible for everyone. Way to go Gaulzi! Herp Fucking Derp


To be fair, from what i have seen of him, he doesn't bm or stream cheat, which was what made combat ez and deezer so despicable. If he does do that as well then yes he is just as bad, if not he is just someone who has chosen to be good at one (cheesy) thing, as opposed to trying to be good at the game over all.

He has streamed his own play when you can clearly hear the sound of his opponent's stream in the background...

Reference please.


lol trying to hide the truth? :D not only do you BM, Canon Rush and Streamcheat, you also talk about "next level canon-rushing". Are you actually CombatEx after plastic surgery? lol


I often don't post cause I think I might look like an idiot to my fellow forum-goers - but hey Mr ][Primarch][, those words are just vicious and unless you have any video of this actually being the case I suggest you gtfo. When people throw bad manner around for no good reason it just makes me really angry - especially when it's against cheesers because of how easy it is to lose people feel like they are some how justified in being generally bad manner towards them. Sure be angry in game I don't care about that - and besides that's cause you just got fucking cheesed and you're angry I get like that too lol - it's when people like Primarch take it to the forums where it is clearly not cause you're angry you got cheesed you are just trying to start a fight - these keyboard warriors just make me mad.


are you kidding me, ofc there are proof, people have already posted it in this thread. having other peoples stream open while playing them is unforgivable in my eyes.


I opened the entire thread via "All" and searched for 'stream' and only 1 other person said you could hear his stream in the background. With no video or way to check it at all. One person, not people. And no proof.
Thylacine
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden882 Posts
May 04 2012 07:27 GMT
#228
*Takes off glasses in shock* Mother of cheese...how can this be so strong?? :S I must try it.
What you're looking at could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare. It isn't. It's the beginning. Introducing Mr. John Valentine, air traveler. His destination: the Twilight Zone...
Mstring
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia510 Posts
May 04 2012 07:37 GMT
#229
Many cannon rushers on both NA and SEA the past few days. The majority of my losses are due to cannon rush! Must practice...
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
May 04 2012 09:40 GMT
#230
On May 04 2012 12:59 sagefreke wrote:
Interesting how posters are suggesting now that if protoss starts putting pylons on the low ground immediately sac a drone and make an extractor so he can't gain sight of your high ground and act as if the Zerg player isn't already automatically behind and pressured into a 1-2 base all in since the Protoss player can safely take his expansion without fear of an attack until the 7 minute mark.

Other than going a 10 pool tell me how to effectively stop the protoss from cannoning my low ground so that I don't end up automatically behind by 21 supply.


Um, if he cancels the pylon, cancel the extractor? If he finishes the pylon, you lost a drone and 25 minerals, he lost 100, isn't that around an even trade? You're going to take that gas geyser eventually.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
May 04 2012 11:28 GMT
#231
On May 04 2012 18:40 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 12:59 sagefreke wrote:
Interesting how posters are suggesting now that if protoss starts putting pylons on the low ground immediately sac a drone and make an extractor so he can't gain sight of your high ground and act as if the Zerg player isn't already automatically behind and pressured into a 1-2 base all in since the Protoss player can safely take his expansion without fear of an attack until the 7 minute mark.

Other than going a 10 pool tell me how to effectively stop the protoss from cannoning my low ground so that I don't end up automatically behind by 21 supply.


Um, if he cancels the pylon, cancel the extractor? If he finishes the pylon, you lost a drone and 25 minerals, he lost 100, isn't that around an even trade? You're going to take that gas geyser eventually.

...extractors are 50.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
SEA KarMa
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia452 Posts
May 04 2012 11:41 GMT
#232
in some situations it is actually ridiculous, but most can be stopped with good micro. however they need to micro much less than you do to pull it off better, so thats a problem.
"terrible, terrible damage". terrible, terrible design.
barrykp
Profile Joined August 2010
Ireland174 Posts
May 04 2012 11:55 GMT
#233
On May 04 2012 20:28 iAmJeffReY wrote:
...extractors are 50.

They're 25.
Lecture me some more on how to play please; I need help.
i)awn
Profile Joined October 2011
United States189 Posts
May 04 2012 13:41 GMT
#234
I always have a great day when I manage to stop a cannon rush and win the game. If it's nerfed I can't have that great feeling anymore
Kaitokid
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany1327 Posts
May 04 2012 13:44 GMT
#235
of course it can be perfected. there are many players quite high on ladder who cannonrush almost every game (speaking only for pvp)
baba44713
Profile Joined October 2011
83 Posts
May 04 2012 14:02 GMT
#236
My friend only cannon rushes all the time and he is high Diamond. Never built Cyber Core in his life as far as I know. He even hit Masters in Season 4 I think. I myself am Zerg, high Plat.

So, well.. wouldn't really mind if Cannon rushing got neutered in some way. If only to see my friend's smirk from his face erased when he drops to Gold or lower.

ant-1
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada149 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 14:36:59
May 04 2012 14:35 GMT
#237
I watch him play last night for about one hour, him being Gaulzi. He was smurfing on a plat account, that he made reach high diamond in said hour, already playing some masters. Here are my observations.
- He was not BM, actually he even complimented a guy when he lost to a proxy gate.
- I couldn't say if he was stream cheating. He did alt-tab at the start of every game, maybe to try to find the other player's stream, but then again it was against mostly noobs.
- On huge 4-players map if he does not find you early enough and you're Z, he's toast. That's because zerglings arrive soon and are very efficient at countering cannons/proxy gates. I guess against T it could be the same if rines are here in good enough numbers (2-3).
- I saw him go for a longer game only once (T "successfully" relocated). His mechanics seem to be around diamond.
- Holy bejesus he's good at it. He's really perfected cannon rushing. He lost two games out of maybe 20.

Here's his MO :
- Against toss, he seems to know EVERY way of walling off behind your mineral line for EVERY spawning spot. When he's walled in, it seems you're screwed. No toss I saw could do anything (Again, diamond scrubs).
- Against T, he puts a pylon on the low ground, two cannons, breaks your wall with those and starts to cannon inside your base. If he gets there early he may even try to cannon inside directly, but mostly it's a diversion. And also he's ready to wall off the ramp at the bottom for when the T inevitably try to relocate. SCV butchering.
- Against Z, he will mostly in-base proxy gate. But he'll also pretend to be cannon rushing, to attract drones out of mining. Then boom you have 4 zealots in your mineral line. I never saw him wall off the ramp with 3 pylons, dunno why, I've heard it's pretty good.

All in all, it seems very very powerful. I'm sure myself (diamond P) I would fall for it 10 times in a row. Well, assuming I did not go forge first.
The Days Run Away Like Wild Horses Over the Hills
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
May 04 2012 14:47 GMT
#238
On May 04 2012 20:28 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 18:40 Whitewing wrote:
On May 04 2012 12:59 sagefreke wrote:
Interesting how posters are suggesting now that if protoss starts putting pylons on the low ground immediately sac a drone and make an extractor so he can't gain sight of your high ground and act as if the Zerg player isn't already automatically behind and pressured into a 1-2 base all in since the Protoss player can safely take his expansion without fear of an attack until the 7 minute mark.

Other than going a 10 pool tell me how to effectively stop the protoss from cannoning my low ground so that I don't end up automatically behind by 21 supply.


Um, if he cancels the pylon, cancel the extractor? If he finishes the pylon, you lost a drone and 25 minerals, he lost 100, isn't that around an even trade? You're going to take that gas geyser eventually.

...extractors are 50.


No, they're 25.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Yaki
Profile Joined April 2011
France4234 Posts
May 04 2012 15:04 GMT
#239
I'm all for a nerf to cannon rush, it's too abusive and it doesn't really require any skill. Just have to know where to put your cannons/pylons and be quick to put them down in certain situations.
MC ■ MarineKing ■ LosirA ■ To someone who has lost after trying his best, no words from the winner can console him.
sagefreke
Profile Joined August 2010
United States241 Posts
May 04 2012 16:23 GMT
#240
On May 04 2012 18:40 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 12:59 sagefreke wrote:
Interesting how posters are suggesting now that if protoss starts putting pylons on the low ground immediately sac a drone and make an extractor so he can't gain sight of your high ground and act as if the Zerg player isn't already automatically behind and pressured into a 1-2 base all in since the Protoss player can safely take his expansion without fear of an attack until the 7 minute mark.

Other than going a 10 pool tell me how to effectively stop the protoss from cannoning my low ground so that I don't end up automatically behind by 21 supply.


Um, if he cancels the pylon, cancel the extractor? If he finishes the pylon, you lost a drone and 25 minerals, he lost 100, isn't that around an even trade? You're going to take that gas geyser eventually.



You missed my point. The Protoss player if he really wants to can prevent Zerg from expanding early. My complaint about having to make an extractor was simply making fun of the fact that people are thinking that by preventing the Protoss player from getting cannons in your main, the Zerg player is okay and not behind despite the fact that he now has cannons preventing an expansion... While Protoss can transition safely into FFE and come out far ahead economically. So unless I'm blindly going early pool against every Protoss I see how do you prevent it?
yo yo yo
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