EPT[Q] Can cannon rushing really be perfected? - Page 8
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Oatsboats
United States20 Posts
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Bonkerz
United States831 Posts
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
There are plenty of builds that can get one to masters with little macro, most of them cheese. You can bane bust every game, 3raxallin every game, and(I guess not as much these days...) 4 gate every game. Why the massive hate for cannon rushes? They aren't impossible in the least to stop =\ | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On May 02 2012 05:20 Legion710 wrote: In all seriousness, i don't understand how you could effectively cannon a zerg and win the game with it? Generally the best way is sealing the zerg inside 1 base (3 pylon wall) and then going something like void rays or blink stalker to end the game. Drone drills can break the wall, but protoss would very likely just be able to reinforce behind the assaulted wall keeping the zerg locked in (denying zerg economy when the drones are pulled for a drill) Idra reacted horribly, and I assume it's because he doesn't care about this sort of stuff at all to bother practicing it or learning what to do. Building spines beside the hatchery/minerals (or other locations) as well as another queen is a pretty big priority. Plant creep tumors with the current queen to prevent cannons infringing on your space, and use injects with the other queen. In the PvP, if the rusher spends 4 pylons just to wall off, you can just build a nexus at the expansion to easily counter it. As a terran, you want to build bunkers right beside your minerals/command center (with a diversion bunker a bit further out), and rush to marauders and/or reapers ASAP. Cannons will not be able to break into an established bunker with a maruader or two inside, so the only advantage they get from all that they spent is the wall-in. By getting medivacs or siege tanks, that can then be countered. That all said, some maps are more stupid/abuse-able than others, and the fact that blizzard maps don't have neutral depots (or other mechanics) to prevent enemy wall-ins is pretty problematic, I'd say. | ||
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Charon1979
Austria317 Posts
On May 03 2012 05:46 Seam wrote: Wow a lot of whining... There are plenty of builds that can get one to masters with little macro, most of them cheese. You can bane bust every game, 3raxallin every game, and(I guess not as much these days...) 4 gate every game. Why the massive hate for cannon rushes? They aren't impossible in the least to stop =\ I think mostly because someone with platinum makro can't bane bust, 3raxallin or 4 gate GM level players successful on a regular basis. But he obviously can do a cannonrush  Even ppl who made it to masters/GM with 6pool only are playing at masters level if they play standard. This guy plays on platinum. The main reason why ppl get so upset about cheeses like this is that most players try to improve their play, ask for help in forums and actually put efford in getting better - while seeing that abusing the map is just enough to get far up the ladder. If JimmyBronze ask you how to improve would you just tell him: "Pick Protoss, and cannonrush the shit out of the ladder every day. Eventually you get good enough for GM in no time. The other way to improve takes longer and involves learning matchups, scouting and macro... so just cannonrush." | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On May 03 2012 04:27 Jaaaaasper wrote: To be fair, from what i have seen of him, he doesn't bm or stream cheat, which was what made combat ez and deezer so despicable. If he does do that as well then yes he is just as bad, if not he is just someone who has chosen to be good at one (cheesy) thing, as opposed to trying to be good at the game over all. He has streamed his own play when you can clearly hear the sound of his opponent's stream in the background... | ||
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Eufouria
United Kingdom4425 Posts
I think that parts of the map that are supposed to just make it more visually appealing, but can be used to create tight walls, like he did against IdrA, should probably be removed if they make it too easy to wall off when cannon or bunking rushing, I don't think its balanced that its that cost effective to wall off. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On May 02 2012 07:24 reikai wrote: why should i have to take a gas if i want to do 1 rax expo? why should his strategy dictate what i have to play? another question is why do protoss gas geysers have double the health of the other race's geysers? Because you are not playing single player. Question 2: because protoss buildings used to have less health than they do currently, and they were losing too many buildings to terran drops. For some serious input to this thread, isn't the answer obvious? If you spend 20 hours practicing defending cannon rushed on map X then you will be able to defend cannon rushes on map X. The reason the guy wins is that his opponents do not practice defending cannon rushes. | ||
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Avril_Lavigne
United States446 Posts
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Maxd11
United States680 Posts
I did enjoy watching Idra get owned however. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On May 03 2012 06:13 Charon1979 wrote: I think mostly because someone with platinum makro can't bane bust, 3raxallin or 4 gate GM level players successful on a regular basis. But he obviously can do a cannonrush Even ppl who made it to masters/GM with 6pool only are playing at masters level if they play standard. This guy plays on platinum. The main reason why ppl get so upset about cheeses like this is that most players try to improve their play, ask for help in forums and actually put efford in getting better - while seeing that abusing the map is just enough to get far up the ladder. If JimmyBronze ask you how to improve would you just tell him: "Pick Protoss, and cannonrush the shit out of the ladder every day. Eventually you get good enough for GM in no time. The other way to improve takes longer and involves learning matchups, scouting and macro... so just cannonrush." Wasn't there a thread for the 3rax where the plat(Diamond?) player was beating pros on a regurlar basis? Like, nearly every game? 3rax is super easy. It takes almost no macro. There's also nearly no 'risk' of a followup, so no need to macro if it fails either. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On May 03 2012 06:45 Maxd11 wrote: It's kinda sad that this nub can beat pros with one simple cheasy and over-powered strategy even when they know it is coming. Maybe someone will win a tournament with nothing but cannon rushes and blizzard will (finally) realize how messed up this is. I did enjoy watching Idra get owned however. Your post says that cannon rushing is an over-powered strategy and your signature says that you cannot bend the truth without creating a new one. I am inspired by your wisdom and I am sure Parting will win his first GSL championship with seven unbeatable cannon rushes. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
That said, there was some awesome cannoning footage there. | ||
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CAPSLOCKLOL
United States135 Posts
I don't have as much of a problem with the strategy as I do with Gaulzi's bm though, I don't really get how he can get so upset over what is essentially a coin-flip. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On May 03 2012 06:51 Seam wrote: Wasn't there a thread for the 3rax where the plat(Diamond?) player was beating pros on a regurlar basis? Like, nearly every game? 3rax is super easy. It takes almost no macro. There's also nearly no 'risk' of a followup, so no need to macro if it fails either. Geiko? Who is like top 8 high masters? Yea, he was diamond...with terran maybe. He has high masters level macro/micro, which is why a cheese like that works. You'll note that kind of strat falls off real fast, but this cannon rush thing requires PERFECT execution in countering it. You all seem to think it's easy, and again I say this, because you theorycraft and have never played a good cannon rusher. Obviously if pros doing solid builds like gasless FE, which beyond 11/11, 12/14 rax is like the fastest wall off, and continual units. You can't 2 rax a cannon rush (ie marine marauder) He is at your base, with cannons, well before you even finish a tech lab or a reactor on 90% of the maps. I don't have as much of a problem with the strategy as I do with Gaulzi's bm though, I don't really get how he can get so upset over what is essentially a coin-flip. The first time I lost to him, and said gg nice cheese, I got a gtfo noob. He looks like some sherlock holmes character as well lol | ||
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][Primarch][
Sweden302 Posts
On May 03 2012 07:17 iAmJeffReY wrote: Geiko? Who is like top 8 high masters? Yea, he was diamond...with terran maybe. He has high masters level macro/micro, which is why a cheese like that works. You'll note that kind of strat falls off real fast, but this cannon rush thing requires PERFECT execution in countering it. You all seem to think it's easy, and again I say this, because you theorycraft and have never played a good cannon rusher. Obviously if pros doing solid builds like gasless FE, which beyond 11/11, 12/14 rax is like the fastest wall off, and continual units. You can't 2 rax a cannon rush (ie marine marauder) He is at your base, with cannons, well before you even finish a tech lab or a reactor on 90% of the maps. The first time I lost to him, and said gg nice cheese, I got a gtfo noob. He looks like some sherlock holmes character as well lol Ok this is a bit pathetic by me but could you upload a screenshot with the message log. I want him to be exposed, I want him to officially join Deezer and CombatEx as scum/trash even though he's not close to their skill level (yes, that is how bad he is). | ||
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Lunit
United States183 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
I don't think its imbalance or anything, people mostly just don't react properly as its the first time they've been cannon rushed by anyone who has practiced it so much. In time he'll just lose more and more | ||
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Maxd11
United States680 Posts
On May 03 2012 06:53 hzflank wrote: Your post says that cannon rushing is an over-powered strategy and your signature says that you cannot bend the truth without creating a new one. I am inspired by your wisdom and I am sure Parting will win his first GSL championship with seven unbeatable cannon rushes. Over powered doesn't mean it's unbeatable... Also I really don't see how my statement is at all related to my signature. I admire your use of sarchasm though, it may have broken a record in unnessicary stupidity . | ||
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