EPTPulling off a successful cannon rush at high level is not that easy (pretty fun to watch lol)
[Q] Can cannon rushing really be perfected? - Page 6
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
Pulling off a successful cannon rush at high level is not that easy (pretty fun to watch lol) | ||
|
Flooz
United States37 Posts
| ||
|
BronzeKnee
United States5212 Posts
On May 02 2012 06:58 iAmJeffReY wrote: It's broken because some plat dude can master 1 strat, and use it against every race, and actually play and beat pros. Obviously broken. There's like no scouting counter, if you scout it, you know its coming, and still have to pull scvs perfect, and snipe shit perfectly. Just because it is easier to execute a strategy than defend against it doesn't mean it is broken or overpowered. Reminds me of the 1-1-1, or even just the 6 pool or Geiko's 3 Rax. Those are easy to execute, but defending them takes more skill. And that is what makes Starcraft 2 great in my opinion, you have to earn the right to play macro games. And you get there by being able to defend all-ins, pressures and cheeses. Cannon rushing is simply a strategy with a very high win rate on certain maps if you put a lot of effort into perfecting it, and it can be done multiple ways, each of which requires a radically different response from the defender. Perfectly the response takes a long time, and that is why cannon rushing works so well, people rarely see it, and they don't know how to react to each particular version. | ||
|
Durp
Canada3117 Posts
| ||
|
Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On May 02 2012 23:50 Durp wrote: This is awesome time to go forge first in every matchup lolol | ||
|
Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On May 02 2012 05:21 denzelz wrote: Totally agree with this. Early cannons are frustrating to play against, and stupid to watch from professional players. It is one of the worst things about SC2. Yep. This really seems to be broken. On certain maps, if he gets scout first, there is almost no safe BO against this kind of shit. Also, don't argue that this shit takes skills. It's even more brain dead than Marine/SCV train about which most of you were bitching lol. | ||
|
Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On May 03 2012 00:03 Huragius wrote: Yep. This really seems to be broken. On certain maps, if he gets scout first, there is almost no safe BO against this kind of shit. Also, don't argue that this shit takes skills. It's even more brain dead than Marine/SCV train about which most of you were bitching lol. There is. As others mentioned, it's called building positioning. In metalopolis, players built their structures behind the mineral lines, to create a semi-wall from cliff to minerals, making probe movements trickier. Similar things can be done on other maps. | ||
|
LordImmortala
Korea (South)41 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States43762 Posts
Guy's really a beast. As cheesy as it is, you've got to give him credit for knowing exactly what he's doing. | ||
|
Oatsboats
United States20 Posts
| ||
iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
Also a terran could prevent the probe getting into their base by pausing their barracks and completing the wall off with a depot. | ||
|
Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On May 02 2012 20:17 -YoricK- wrote: I was wondering why I was getting cannon rushed so often today in PvP...played like 6 PvPs today, 4 were cannon rushes lol. Definitely need to build pylon and gateway behind the mineral line on maps like daybreak, getting walled out as they build cannons behind your probe line is so annoying. I've been skipping the first zealot a lot in PvP lately, but its really useful to have against cannon rushes. It's just daybreak that's retarded as it's the best map to cannon rush ever. Only 2 pylons needed to block behind the mineral lines and when they get taken down you can only need 2 or 3 more to block again. Placing pylon and gate behind the mineral line doesn't even work that well as a smart cannon rusher can use your own buildings to complete his wall with slight adjustments and you can't completely block the cannon spots. Best way to stop cannon rushes is often to use the probe build trick to glitch your own units into the contain and kill the probe. For example on antiga with the 2 pylon block you can glitch a probe in and prevent the cannon (same way as they glitch the unit out after making the cannon basically.) | ||
|
Exoteric
Australia2330 Posts
On May 03 2012 01:01 iHirO wrote: I realise Im only theory crafting here but couldn't the gas steal be held off by clicking a worker on it and pressing hold position? Also a terran could prevent the probe getting into their base by pausing their barracks and completing the wall off with a depot. If you build an assimilater while the geyser's in your fog of war, it doesn't matter if a worker is next to it or not. Doing the second suggestion either requires an extremely early scout to see the protoss build order, or is just a blind response in the hopes that your opponent is doing a cannon rush, and would put you at a disadvantage. In any case, the protoss would just send out scouting probes earlier. A few problems I see with it(the actual cannon rush) are: - Unless you initially react as if you're about to get cannon rushed, you have a reasonably high chance of losing to it/coming out of it with a severe disadvantage - If you do react as if you're about to get cannon rushed and pull many workers or pre-emptively position them in 'ideal rush' locations, then you will come out behind if your opponent is just playing normally and just made 2 pylons only to cancel them when they near completion. - It requires really good unit control from the person facing the rush to stop it - It does require a bit of ability and good knowledge of the map layout to execute, but it's easily replicable and shouldn't be a strategy that is able to win against high master/gm opponents | ||
|
Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On May 03 2012 00:34 LordImmortala wrote: I just think this guy just understands the map too well. Just look at the wall off on antiga against idra. Did anyone know/think that robot on the low ground makes a wall off? When a new map hits ladder pool I tend to open it once in custom just to check all the possible wallings for FFE and any cannon spots. It's really easy to see with the building grid where walloffs are possible or not, just a few have to be checked if they are tight or not generally. I'm sure this guy does that as well and even more rigorously checks all cannon spots. | ||
|
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
| ||
|
FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
I mean there were people in this thread that complained about having to switch up their build towards what the opponent is doing, which is quiet funny to read, when you think about late game tech switches. That being said, i wish i would get cheesed more often on ladder, i am lacking a bit of training there. Especially since people play so greedy most of the time, that half of my games end before they even started, ladder has lost alot of training value. And the gas thing, worked on alot of maps before, didn't thought its still an issue, especially for terran. You can make really good mind games out of taking this gas and if they really do canon rush you, you can gain a huge advantage with a concussive marauder proxy. And zerg can block a gas forever with a few minerals and a drone away from mining. | ||
|
Qwaky
Croatia20 Posts
| ||
|
Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On May 03 2012 01:14 Markwerf wrote: Best way to stop cannon rushes is often to use the probe build trick to glitch your own units into the contain and kill the probe. For example on antiga with the 2 pylon block you can glitch a probe in and prevent the cannon (same way as they glitch the unit out after making the cannon basically.) Mind=blown. I didn't think about the glitching trick. I used it to get my probe out of the pylon wall, but never to get a probe INSIDE it. Guys, this is the answer right here. | ||
|
MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
| ||
|
Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
| ||
| ||
