[D] Korean Cheese vs American Macro - Page 4

akalarry

United States1978 Posts

April 13 2012 03:39 GMT

#61

massing drones ("macroing") is not difficult. what's difficult is holding off all the variety of timing attacks while massing drones. thus idra actually would not be considered a good macro player since he has such a weakness to all ins and timing attacks. he only wins when he gets way ahead from being allowed to mass drone.

it's like if no one attacks me, and i make 6 orbitals in 5 minutes and go on to win the game. is that "macro" impressive? it's holding off the void ray all in, or holding off the roach bust that is impressive.

mikedebo

Canada4341 Posts

April 13 2012 11:31 GMT

#62

On April 13 2012 11:35 Fishgle wrote:

Show nested quote +

This phrase needs to be added to the Starcraft Dictionary.

And I've never even played the game! lol

polpot

3002 Posts

April 13 2012 12:25 GMT

#63

MrTortoise

1388 Posts

April 13 2012 12:26 GMT

#64

Any gam eis about winning.

The basic point behind macro is all due to the defenders advantage.
If you build things taking into account travel time you can always get a better economy so you will win the fight due to equal numbers and faster reinforcements.

HOWEVER the entire point of macro is to get a decent army at a time when your opponent is weak.

So all these Korean timing attacks when described as all in are technically perfect examples of applied proper macro play.

Also if you are z and are macroing but can die to early 3 rax all in then you really don't have a build your just messing around praying that the opponent doesnt do all kinds of viable builds.

Its like the protoss v zerg how do you deal with 200 food at 12 mins ... the answer is probably dont let the zerg do what he likes and attack when he likes -because then you are giving a perfect timing window. Don't get me wrong, i can't solve it but I think z deserves to win if you let them do what they like (as with any side).

Why are people so obsessed about whether something is cheese or not? If your build doesn't defend vertain builds then ithas flaws. Saying well it doesn't defend against these cheeses doesn't somehow make it better or mean you don;t need to defend against them. It just means that by exposing yourself to them you are forcing the tendencies of players TOWARDS doing those cheeses. If a player could 'cheese' and win and chooses to take a less optimal path then they have made a mistake and have played the game in a less strong way than they should of.

Cheese is just an excuse for people to stay shit and dismiss a whole host of valid strategies as being below them when those timings are the fundementals of the game.

McGuire72

Canada140 Posts

April 13 2012 13:51 GMT

#65

I play aggressive and cheesey in every match-up. Say what you will about me, but my theory is that if a Protoss or Terran is going to play super greedy and assume I'm playing a macro game, I'm doing myself a disservice by playing directly into their hands. It's amazing how many ZvTs I win by just performing a 2-base baneling bust because the Terran was rushing to three CCs. Ditto for ZvP. FFE? 12 roaches, bust open the forge wall, and rush in with lings. Does it build solid macro mechanics? Not necessarily. Does it win? Surprisingly often! I'm no pro obviously but I'd rather have fun, fast games that I WIN by being aggressive, than let a protoss go 200/200 and ROFLstomp me, or get my BL/Infestor army laughably owned by one good vortex.

HeeroFX

United States2704 Posts

April 13 2012 14:01 GMT

#66

Korean style is generally to kill there opponet no matter what. In tournaments we see more cheesy stuff from Koreans. On the ladder you see they actually practice macro games. To come to think of it though, Koreans execute great timing attacks a lot of the time. Like squritle in IPL 4 did to mma and MKP. Koreans just want to kill you whenever they have the opertunity, which imo is the best way to play the game.

Sc2eleazar

United States70 Posts

April 13 2012 14:34 GMT

#67

In regards to this discussion, I would like to point out (arguably) one of the top foreigners at least in mixed foreigner/Korean tournaments: HuK. HuK's strengths really lie in his agressive micro intensive play-style. This comes up especially in PvP where even with the metagame shift a 4gate can still threaten. In almost all of his matchups he often relies more on agressive timing attacks and/or trick builds (7-9 gate PVZ, dt and/or blink stalker PvT) with some level of success because of his ability with micro. "Top 3 control" may have become a joke but honestly he does have a high level of micro.

However at the same times it's his mechanics that allow him to micro. Although he seems lacking in the "macro game" he macros well enough for an aggressive build. Might this debate actually come down to finding a style you excel at then bringing up ALL you mechanics to a level that allows maximum execution of that style.

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[D] Korean Cheese vs American Macro - Page 4

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