[G] Lyyna’s TvP : How to mech every protoss cry - Page 28

On April 12 2012 06:07 crocodile wrote:
I'm not being hostile, you never once asked me for a replay. It's not a personal insult to say that your posts demonstrate a gross lack of understanding of Starcraft 2, because they do. You're the one being hostile, calling me a dick and saying I like to 'shit on others.' I gave you a very good basis for everything I said.

As for your pulling rank, the difference between low and high master is very small. I don't do well in TvT and I experiment a lot in TvZ, so my ranking gets pulled down a bit by that. You sound like the guys on the bnet forums, where you see Platinum players explaining that because they are Platinum they know sooo much more about the game than Gold players, which you would know not to be true if you worked your way up from Bronze like I did.

I've explained why very few Protoss players would ever build 5 Immortals in a 150 food army (tl;dr because it's an extremely dumb idea), especially against my build which forces them into a style of play that doesn't really have room for a lot of Immortals before I have a very high Banshee and/or BC count which is why I don't think I've faced it, but I will give you replays that have more Immortals than usual at the very least in a few minutes, I need to find them.

On April 12 2012 06:41 ProxyKnoxy wrote:


From a protoss player, if I see you build more than 3/4 banshees then I probably build a phoenix and then immortals for your tanks, eventually into collossus.

I think a single phoenix just wipes out the foundations of your build, but I'm not sure perhaps you have played against it...?

On April 12 2012 06:51 crocodile wrote:
A single Phoenix would get sniped by my Marines in like 2 seconds, and then you'd have absolutely no anti-air to deal with my ~6 Banshees + PDD. I get a lot of Marines to survive the early game with my build.

To Hider:

Found a win and a loss. In this one the guy makes 5 Immortals in the mid game (this is one of my earliest mech games) and they are useless in a later fight.

http://drop.sc/140224

Here is a loss. Despite a TERRIBLE engagement in my initial push, I still wiped out his army and had an advantage. However I let my macro slip and lost in the late game for other reasons, all of which had nothing to do with Immortals. I lost because this was in my early days of trying this strat and I was quite inexperienced, so I let him get every base on the map and 100 probes, I got too many vikings to respond to his carriers, and my ground army composition was a bit weak.

http://drop.sc/158201

I also noticed you mentioned Archons as a potential issue for ghostless mech. Here's a game where the Protoss gets maxed out on multiple, different army compositions each time (one of which is like ~1 million Archons), and I trade very efficiently every time.

http://drop.sc/155312

This one has a Colossus/Archon mix that also ends well for me.

http://drop.sc/155314

On March 24 2012 00:58 Severus_ wrote:
Hm dem ravens on that Shakuras game achieved BW Vessel status. You got critical mass of them and it was really hard for zerg to do anything at all. Thats all good but in the TvP games hm everything looks kinda gimmicky I will wait to see how this develops and might try it on ladder. Keep up the good work.

On April 12 2012 12:23 McTeazy wrote:


what? marines? in his base? harassing with your banshees? really?

5 pheonix and a speed obs will shut down your harass. as soon as there's more than 1 banshee anyone with a brain will throw down mineral line cannons, and a stargate and just defend with ease. most toss will actually defend banshee harass pretty well due to experience defending mutas in pvz.

2nd of all, i think you should be learning to play this style at an economic disadvantage. simcity/cannons will minimise helion losses and banshees can be swatted away pretty easily as i noted above.

Do not get angry guys. We are terran, we are civilized and disciplined. We are not angryToss. We can discuss like adult.

On April 12 2012 17:11 Lyyna wrote:
Do not get angry guys. We are terran, we are civilized and disciplined. We are not angryToss. We can discuss like adult.

About Crocodile ghost less style, as i said earlier, i'm trying some ghost-less midgame. Basically it sounds even scarier than ghost mech midgame due to the fact you can get a huge number of factoris, uppgrades, units,etc. And you do not really about having energy on ghosts. Having 2/3 fact worth of hellions and the same number producing tanks/thors relatively early in the game is insanely powerful.

Also, people, stop with the "yeah so the protoss just go phenix and then immortals and then blablabla". You're assuming the protoss has infinite ressources, get his tech instantly, is maphacking and reacting to every single thing the terran do, versus a blind terran with 1 base eco. In fact its due to people using these scenarios that mech has the reputation of being bad, as people NEVER uses realistic situations to "prove" that mech is bad or good

On April 12 2012 06:51 crocodile wrote:
A single Phoenix would get sniped by my Marines in like 2 seconds, and then you'd have absolutely no anti-air to deal with my ~6 Banshees + PDD. I get a lot of Marines to survive the early game with my build.

To Hider:

Found a win and a loss. In this one the guy makes 5 Immortals in the mid game (this is one of my earliest mech games) and they are useless in a later fight.

http://drop.sc/140224

Here is a loss. Despite a TERRIBLE engagement in my initial push, I still wiped out his army and had an advantage. However I let my macro slip and lost in the late game for other reasons, all of which had nothing to do with Immortals. I lost because this was in my early days of trying this strat and I was quite inexperienced, so I let him get every base on the map and 100 probes, I got too many vikings to respond to his carriers, and my ground army composition was a bit weak.

http://drop.sc/158201

I also noticed you mentioned Archons as a potential issue for ghostless mech. Here's a game where the Protoss gets maxed out on multiple, different army compositions each time (one of which is like ~1 million Archons), and I trade very efficiently every time.

http://drop.sc/155312

This one has a Colossus/Archon mix that also ends well for me.

http://drop.sc/155314

On April 12 2012 20:28 Chubz wrote:




00:19:26 - PhXǂLyyna à TOUS: some people have skill
00:19:27 - PhXǂLyyna à TOUS: others
00:19:29 - PhXǂLyyna à TOUS: have toss

who is angry now ?

On April 12 2012 20:44 Lyyna wrote:
@Chubz take an ironic quote on tl, a trolling (but still true) quote ingame, try to prove a totally different fact with it

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3orbf8/ ... Is all i can answer to it without saying something that may be seen as rude by most toss

Also, stream tonight 7pm. Dont worry,ill not cancel it this time :D

@Hider : If this is the game im thinking about, rax are just a "bonus" to help holding your front. You can use a lot of these as they're insanely cheap with mass orbital. Also about the ghost fact, this game was my first ghost-less and i tried to delay ghosts as hard as possible, and if i remember well at some point he tried to bust my tankline (OUT of barracks cover) with a massive archon/immortal army, which failed horribly

I think the best thing in the end will be to go ghostless midgame as it allows you to get really early a huge amount of fact with dual armories, and go to like 3 rax later in the game to pump ghosts

On April 12 2012 21:04 Hider wrote:



Thank you for replays. If you look at the game against cyrus: Even though you had an extremely strong defensive position (around 26 min mark) (which you seem to be very good at setting your self up at) it didn't look like you were efficient enough? Isn't this a position where ghosts would have helped a lot. But the thing I feel from having watched your games is that you need a really favourable position to be cost efficient (enough), and I am just not sure if that is always possible (but maybe I am wrong, having baracks certainly help).

And I am just not sure what are the advantages of not getting ghosts? With ghosts you can be cost efficient in a straight up fight (like in an open field). Cutting a few banshees/tanks/delaying BC's just doesn't seems so bad if you can become much more efficient. I feel like the "barracks wall of" should be a bonus help, not a neccesiity and with ghostless play it kinda feels you just need that wall.

On April 13 2012 02:03 crocodile wrote:

I agree, ghosts would have helped. I admit I'm just really not good at using them or incorporating them into my builds. Its as lyyna said, skipping ghosts strengthens your mid game because you don't really need them that badly in the midgame.
The barracks wall is just super fun and it isn't necessary but as I'm sure you've seen it helps a TON.

I don't know if you've ever played ravenmech late game TvZ, but its a similar principle to using the ravens to make a wall of turrets to give your tanks a few rounds of free shots at ultralisks. You don't NEED it but man is it nice to have!

Did you watch a single replay? Or do you prefer theorycrafting?

If a Protoss rushes for Speed Observers and Phoenix AND Cannons in their mineral lines, they will have practically no units to defend my Marine/Tank/Hellion/Banshee timing push. If they're getting them in the late game when they already have all their other tech I'll have BCs out and will be transferring to Tank/Thor/BC instead of Marine/Hellion/Tank/Banshee as my core units with sparing amounts of other units to support. Phoenix will be useless by then.

I cannot imagine why you think it is a good idea to do this style at an economic disadvantage. That makes no sense at all, so I can't even argue that point.

Anyway, I'm not trying to promote my own mech style here in this thread as this is about Lyyna's mech, so if anyone wants to talk about ghostless mech with me I'd love it if you could PM me. I'm not interested if you want to talk about why you think it doesn't work even though I've got tons of experience with it working.

o not get angry guys. We are terran, we are civilized and disciplined. We are not angryToss. We can discuss like adult.

About Crocodile ghost less style, as i said earlier, i'm trying some ghost-less midgame. Basically it sounds even scarier than ghost mech midgame due to the fact you can get a huge number of factoris, uppgrades, units,etc. And you do not really about having energy on ghosts. Having 2/3 fact worth of hellions and the same number producing tanks/thors relatively early in the game is insanely powerful.

Also, people, stop with the "yeah so the protoss just go phenix and then immortals and then blablabla". You're assuming the protoss has infinite ressources, get his tech instantly, is maphacking and reacting to every single thing the terran do, versus a blind terran with 1 base eco. In fact its due to people using these scenarios that mech has the reputation of being bad, as people NEVER uses realistic situations to "prove" that mech is bad or good